Author Topic: The role of an "administrator": what it is and what it should be  (Read 25684 times)

Offline mousEtopher

  • Administrator
  • Ogre Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 2065
    • View Profile
    • War2.me
Re: The role of an "administrator": what it is and what it should be
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2015, 02:26:39 PM »
What's wrong with splitting? The whole idea of a forum is to have in-depth discussions, and this is a separate conversation from il's post about the antihack.

Advertising, helping new players, hosting tournies etc. are all great, but those are things everyone can do. Admins have a finite amount of time that they can devote to wc2, same as everyone else, so they tend to do the things that everyone else can't do, like improving the server itself and keeping it running. Paying bills. Administrative stuff. Would you prefer e.g. that iL sat in the channel all day telling new players how to host rather than developing an antihack? Or that I had hosted a bunch of tournaments rather than building and maintaining a modern website?

Another point, the people who actually do the things you suggest tend to get nominated to become admins anyway. Remember when Rit was here for like a month and took a bunch of initiative? Challonge, Google calendar, some other stuff. He was nominated more than once. I personally don't feel like people who do these things need to become "admins" though. Maybe server mods, or "community leaders" or something, based on what they contribute.


Bottom line: wc2 needs volunteers, not finger pointing. Everyone wants to pitch the ideas, no one wants to do the work. And that's understandable, we've all got shit to do.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 02:28:13 PM by mousEtopher »
squeak!

Offline xXxSmeagolxXx

  • Ogre
  • *******
  • Posts: 1298
    • View Profile
    • Warcraft 2 PBall Players
Re: The role of an "administrator": what it is and what it should be
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2015, 02:36:26 PM »
No one is pointing fingers Mouse all in your head. You still fail to see that Il asked a question and I answered. I don't care what any of you say advertising your own site falls on you not the users. So by your account of things Mouse the local Subway, the people who patronize subway should be making advertisements for it... Lmao. You only feel like I'm pointing fingers because your work as an admin is on the site, and you do nothing of what I said. Hosting tournaments and helping people can for sure fall to other people. Advertising your own site falls on other people, pshh please. I'm not even saying it's YOUR job or any specific admin, it should be your job to make sure it's getting advertised by someone though. If you don't want input on what admins should do maybe Il shouldn't ask.

Offline I hate naggers

  • Ogre Mage
  • ********
  • Posts: 2345
    • View Profile
Re: The role of an "administrator": what it is and what it should be
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2015, 02:37:48 PM »
Tournaments banners are really cool, that's a fact. And they can be gifs too! (I think? I remember fire moving @ mousetopher's)
Icons will be assigned, banners will be added, there's really nothing preventing a creative person from starting a tournament.

Blid, I vaguely remember a discussion about this, but: have you guys discussed the idea of micro payments for some shit? Like, uhhh, personal icons or XXX wins? Iono, no good ideas for now, but the money could be used to host the server and $$ tournaments.

Maybe special character names? But I think they're all allowed in .ru after a change back in 2008-ish
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 02:39:32 PM by CLAW »

Offline mousEtopher

  • Administrator
  • Ogre Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 2065
    • View Profile
    • War2.me
Re: The role of an "administrator": what it is and what it should be
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2015, 02:46:59 PM »
It's not a business man, we don't have any more of a vested interest in keeping the server going than you do. We do it because we enjoy the game, it's actually a /burden/ that we willingly undertake because of that fact. Why wouldn't people pitch in if they also enjoy playing, and want the community to thrive? Why is there this sense of entitlement for a completely free service..? And I mean, if someone doesn't have time to work on the server... then they don't have time. How do you not understand that? Do you expect us to quit our jobs to advertise a warcraft 2 server or what?

If you don't want input on what admins should do maybe Il shouldn't ask.

Your input's welcome, isn't mine?
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 02:49:42 PM by mousEtopher »
squeak!

Offline EviL~Ryu

  • (ง︡'-'︠)ง "Bitchin!" ®©℗™
  • Dragon
  • **********
  • Posts: 6059
  • "It's going to be Legen-(wait for it......)-DARY!"
    • View Profile
    • Clan EviL Official Page
The role of an "administrator": what it is and what it should be
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2015, 02:50:46 PM »
...., it's actually a /burden/ that we willingly undertake because of that fact. ...Do you expect us to quit our jobs to advertise a warcraft 2 server or what?

There are people willing to take the burden away from you, not like you have a gun to your head forcing you to do it. If you can't meet its commitments, let others who can take the task at hand.


Sent from my Motorola DynaTAC 8000X using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 02:52:19 PM by EviL~Ryu »

-Administrator of Clan EviL
-Developer (Trivia Development and Analytics)

Offline xXxSmeagolxXx

  • Ogre
  • *******
  • Posts: 1298
    • View Profile
    • Warcraft 2 PBall Players
Re: The role of an "administrator": what it is and what it should be
« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2015, 02:51:33 PM »
Lol mouse is getting all butthurt, don't mean to say it that way but it's true. You volunteered so your argument is I volunteered so I shouldn't have to do full work? If you don't have the time assign someone else, it's not rocket science Mouse. I never said what you did wasn't valuable, all I said was there is other things the administration can do once server commands are taken care of by bots. If you think admins should have no responsibility for anything once the bots are up great Mouse. The fact remains it's not a business, but it is a product and an organization. I have hosted tournaments and put up my own money for tournaments, advertised this server in videos so don't act like I have no idea the time and energy involved. If you feel its a free service and you volunteer so you  and the administration shouldn't try to make it better, that's a terrible attitude.

Offline xXxSmeagolxXx

  • Ogre
  • *******
  • Posts: 1298
    • View Profile
    • Warcraft 2 PBall Players
Re: The role of an "administrator": what it is and what it should be
« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2015, 03:02:43 PM »
You act like I listed each admin then said exactly what they should and shouldn't be doing. I said the administration should be advertising the game or assigning someone to do it and you take it as a personal attack or that I'm, "Pointing fingers" . The other suggestions I made are valid too, you are the leadership of this game, you want others to do stuff, shouldn't you lead by example or put people into leadership positions who will? I basically made some suggestions of things admins could do after Il asked(all things that can help the game) and you want to act like I'm tearing down the administration. The administration hosting tournaments, advertising the game, and anything else they can do to help the game isn't accusations it's helpful suggestions.

Offline GaNzTheLegend

  • Best War2 Player Ever
  • Ogre Mage
  • ********
  • Posts: 1745
  • #1 on: Kali, Heat, Zone, Kahn, GameStorm, Bnet, RU
    • View Profile
    • Kali Hall Of Fame
Re: The role of an "administrator": what it is and what it should be
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2015, 03:34:54 PM »
...., it's actually a /burden/ that we willingly undertake because of that fact. ...Do you expect us to quit our jobs to advertise a warcraft 2 server or what?

There are people willing to take the burden away from you, not like you have a gun to your head forcing you to do it. If you can't meet its commitments, let others who can take the task at hand.


Sent from my Motorola DynaTAC 8000X using Tapatalk

^^
Kali IGL Stats

Offline {Lance}

  • Sappers
  • ******
  • Posts: 866
    • View Profile
Re: The role of an "administrator": what it is and what it should be
« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2015, 03:35:38 PM »
Hmm Smeagol,  I dont know if you are aware of this or not but not all "businesses/organizations" are run by the admins in the manor you are suggesting.  If you would like an example,  here is a shortlist of some very PROMINENT "businesses" that are promoted, developed, and used by the users rather than the "admins".

Apache (Runs 76% of all websites)
Linux (Runs 82% of all servers on the internet)
MySQL (Runs 59% of all databases)
PVPGN (We all know what this one is)
and last but not least,  War2.RU :)
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 03:38:34 PM by {Lance} »
Dk At hall is cause I started with temple at start and didn't need the castle . Not a hack .  I wouldn't bother editing a ss btw

^---- Dellam doesnt hack!  See, even by his own admission, no hack!!  LMFAO.

Offline EviL~Ryu

  • (ง︡'-'︠)ง "Bitchin!" ®©℗™
  • Dragon
  • **********
  • Posts: 6059
  • "It's going to be Legen-(wait for it......)-DARY!"
    • View Profile
    • Clan EviL Official Page
The role of an "administrator": what it is and what it should be
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2015, 03:38:16 PM »

... War2.US :)

[emoji41]

I fucked hate MySQL, my company is to lazy to switch over the legacy data stored on it. Forcing me to use that piece of shit. Idk who the Dba was but shit queries so slow. [emoji35]


Sent from my Motorola DynaTAC 8000X using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 03:48:27 PM by EviL~Ryu »

-Administrator of Clan EviL
-Developer (Trivia Development and Analytics)

Offline {Lance}

  • Sappers
  • ******
  • Posts: 866
    • View Profile
Re: The role of an "administrator": what it is and what it should be
« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2015, 03:38:56 PM »
Lol,  yea fixed that hahah.  Habit ;)
Dk At hall is cause I started with temple at start and didn't need the castle . Not a hack .  I wouldn't bother editing a ss btw

^---- Dellam doesnt hack!  See, even by his own admission, no hack!!  LMFAO.

Offline I hate naggers

  • Ogre Mage
  • ********
  • Posts: 2345
    • View Profile
Re: The role of an "administrator": what it is and what it should be
« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2015, 03:39:23 PM »
i dislike the emote-only posts and theres two right in front of me!!!!!!

Offline xXxSmeagolxXx

  • Ogre
  • *******
  • Posts: 1298
    • View Profile
    • Warcraft 2 PBall Players
Re: The role of an "administrator": what it is and what it should be
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2015, 03:41:53 PM »
The places you are naming, are places that users need their product. No one needs Warcraft 2. As you can see the numbers are falling on the server , so advertising could obviously help. If I need a tire and there's only one tire company in town obviously I'm probably going to go there. There are probably millions of free games, how is someone going to know to play Warcraft 2? The game is spread by users and it keeps dropping in users, so the answer wouldn't be to implement some advertisement plan? Hmm

Offline {Lance}

  • Sappers
  • ******
  • Posts: 866
    • View Profile
Re: The role of an "administrator": what it is and what it should be
« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2015, 04:02:51 PM »
I think you are looking at it all wrong Smeagol.  The problem isnt and has never been advertising.  The problem is accountability really.  The hackers have pretty much destroyed this game and people simply get sick of it and leave.  Having to deal with Bennih for example every freakin day saying something stupid like "Lance Noob" or whatever and then going on a tirade about how he's superior in every way etc etc.  That is cancerous to the game itself.  What players want more than advertising are features that benefit them.  Here is another example.

From 200? - 2004 the RU server experienced an increase in players coming from the Bnet servers due to Burnt (a player at the time) telling everyone about something cool he had discovered (not what was advertised to him).  Then from 2004 - 2008 it experienced a noticeable steady decline in players but those players never went back to Bnet.  They simply stopped playing.  In 2008 - 2009 there was another steep increase in players.  This was due to the fact that the server had some never before seen features.  In 2009 those changes were removed by the then administration (slightly different people than today).  From 2009 - Current, the server has experienced massive decline, a decline in the features, and an increase in advertising that it once had.  These facts are not a coincidence.  The statistics support the fact that if you bring the features,  the players will not only come but they will also stay if the environment supports a good clean, exciting experience.

Advertising works, but ONLY if you have a platform that people are willing to continue to re-visit.  In it's current state,  that is not what War2.RU is, but that is going to change in the not so distant future.  iL has already made HUGE leaps over the previous generation of War2.RU and it should be able to sustain a population soon if it's not to late of course.  I'm hoping that we are putting out the fire before it's a total loss but we wont really know until this thing is just completely dead with 0 people logged in during prime time.  Something that was definitely going to happen if some drastic changes didnt take place with the platform itself. 

There have been many opensource projects that are or where in the same boat as War2.RU is in right now.  One such example is Mandrake Linux.  It was on the brink of total disaster but it was due to problems with the platform rather than anything else.  It was being "administrated and advertised" by a select few rather than by the users.  What happened?  It lost 86% of it's userbase over a 4 year period.  They changed the "policy" to allow community members to make changes, advertise (IE: at one point they didnt let people use their Mandrake "logo"/"Tradename" on things that they didnt approve of) and thus became "Mandriva" a now thriving opensource Linux platform.  I see war2.RU in the same situation.  Hopefully it can have the same outcome as well.
Dk At hall is cause I started with temple at start and didn't need the castle . Not a hack .  I wouldn't bother editing a ss btw

^---- Dellam doesnt hack!  See, even by his own admission, no hack!!  LMFAO.

Offline xXxSmeagolxXx

  • Ogre
  • *******
  • Posts: 1298
    • View Profile
    • Warcraft 2 PBall Players
Re: The role of an "administrator": what it is and what it should be
« Reply #44 on: August 28, 2015, 04:09:30 PM »
2008-2009 A huge number of people came here because Battle.net totally died lmao.  The features you're talking about are what regular users of the game want mainly. If you say to someone that has never played Warcraft 2 get custom icons, anti hack, and do server commands with bots instantly! They are going to be like wait what's Warcraft 2? I have no idea what those things are.  Most the people who play on this server play here because there is no other server for Warcraft 2, and most of them came here when Battle.net died. Having features is going to help keep new players, but keeping the 200 people that play this game isn't going to do shit if you don't bring new people in as well. I'm not against adding new features to keep new players, you also have to get new players as well its a two way street.