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New Map - Forgotten Pathways (Total Gow style map) - by the Good Shepherd 1859  10

Peon Posts: 28 Karma: +1/-0 **

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New Map - Forgotten Pathways (Total Gow style map) - by the Good Shepherd
« on: January 16, 2017, 09:43:11 PM »
Note please play test and post with any issues or concerns for consideration for Finalization of map.
Close Date for Revisions will January 23rd, 10 pm EST.

Special Creator Notes:
1. This replicates the original Gow Style map in totality. Sure spots and pathways have been changed but will add a new flavor of play.
2. As with the original all spots are not equal but each spot will have it's one dynamic identity.
3. The major differences are that all spots can get gold normally. i.e. 6 and 8 in normal gow get screwed. This dynamic did change so that all spots can get gold at the same rate. This was done intentionally to make all spots more fair in that regard in and of itself. 

Map : Forgotten Pathways -  8 players
Type: Land, patterend (follows the concepts and ideas of Gow)
Properties: Forest, (10,000 gold, 5000 wood, 5000 oil), 128 x 128 map, 8 players
Creator: TheGoodShepherd

Starting spots: 8
8 start mines - 60k gold
4 expo mines - 30k
4 middle mines - 50k
mines in total 16
Total Gold 800k

0 oil patches

Enjoy !
Attachments
Forgotten Pathways demo - pud
Pudbrowser image (map snapshot)
Ogre Posts: 1019 Karma: +115/-13 *******

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Re: New Map - Forgotten Pathways (Total Gow style map) - by the Good Shepherd
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2017, 05:09:25 AM »
Have a mod move all of your maps to server section of the forums to maybe get more interest in revisions.
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Re: New Map - Forgotten Pathways (Total Gow style map) - by the Good Shepherd
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2017, 12:37:11 PM »
I'll move them, it's kind of what I do
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Re: New Map - Forgotten Pathways (Total Gow style map) - by the Good Shepherd
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2017, 05:15:03 PM »
very unfair map like gow.. 3 spots cant close, why make still unbalance map?? there are many good fair maps made by blizzard (for example forest trial, maze) why we dont switch to "fair" map?
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Re: New Map - Forgotten Pathways (Total Gow style map) - by the Good Shepherd
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2017, 05:17:52 PM »
very unfair map like gow.. 3 spots cant close, why make still unbalance map?? there are many good fair maps made by blizzard (for example forest trial, maze) why we dont switch to "fair" map?
so people can always get a fluke win & 95% of the time they have an excuse when they lose
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Re: New Map - Forgotten Pathways (Total Gow style map) - by the Good Shepherd
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2017, 05:30:50 PM »
I'd be down to play a new gow style map. The concepts and balance should be fine tuned and agreed upon by most players with a good understanding of the game. It will also need to be featured in some way (youtube, tournies, hosts). If the community shows interest I'd like to help to make it happen!
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Re: New Map - Forgotten Pathways (Total Gow style map) - by the Good Shepherd
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2017, 06:45:49 PM »
@Szwagier - I understand your concern. By your standard, the total fair and balanced Gow map you are talking about has already be completed. This has been done in the form of Gow BNE. You can build and block all spots. However, this takes away strategies and becomes drab and boring. In light of that, I specifically and purposefully replicated "defects" so that all spots will have some form of deficiency.

Ironically, the deficiencies in Gow Classic are the reason so many people play the map. It was and is my goal to replicate deficiencies at all spots so that "skill" for that spot can be utilized. Be it towering, catting, rushing, choking, powering and so on.

Thirdly, aside from pos (Plains of Snow) and BTB (Bridge to Bridge) there are not so many 8 player land maps. My intent is to provide a variety of maps that may be similar but with different defects likened to Gow. It is my belief that many players look for these attributes so that it may contribute to their play style. For instance, SPB- likes to tower/gay/ and cat. Well if everyone were able to block how could he rax someone??? I'm not picking on him just using him as a prima fascia example.

Lastly, I'm looking for feedback as to any changes that need to be made with reasoning to support such a claim. This is a "demo" version subject to be changed accordingly for any unnecessary defects.  I have spotted a few already and will work to revise those few. Prior to addressing those, I'm still looking for further feedback on specific changes. Here is an example : I can only build my hall in one spot, can I not have more choices???... Although this is not true on this specific map, you get the drift.
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Re: New Map - Forgotten Pathways (Total Gow style map) - by the Good Shepherd
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2017, 07:27:27 PM »
no its not they could just fix roads some tress (for mining 4) nothing more but they change lot of tress, in your map making dual is not good, to long ...
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Re: New Map - Forgotten Pathways (Total Gow style map) - by the Good Shepherd
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2017, 12:44:18 AM »
I checked the map, and currently it offers less options than either versions of gow. I can't really see any thought process behind the design choices aside from creating chances to take down newbies with cats, towers and farms.
You want to add diversity, but by far the best strategy is to just power on this. After powering, try to stay even or get the upper hand and take ONE 60k exp. Don't spread out, focus on unit control, favor ogres over dks unless your opponent is completely defensive. 99% of games will be decided by then unless spb is involved.

Gow is not just about getting towered or being able to wall-in. You need a far better understanding even about basic early-mid game.

A few of many examples to think of for starters:
-The s3 area will essentially become a dead zone by the time players have to expand. The reasons for that are efficient, quick farm blocks and dks from behind s3.
-I know what possible tactics you wanted to open up with the tiny path below the entrance of 10 but don't go with such a narrow path. Think of another option.
-The lake above s6 is going to cause pathing issues. Also due to the mine's position it will be nearly impossible to hold the exp or to get gold. (think of gold flows, hall positions, ogres running to defend, possible building blocks).
-Lakes are pretty but they waste a lot of space.
-Carefully plan out possible, optimal building placement choices, chop locations for every starting location.

Perhaps something good could come out of it eventually, since the people who made gow at the dawn of time were clueless.
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Re: New Map - Forgotten Pathways (Total Gow style map) - by the Good Shepherd
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2017, 06:23:17 PM »
Perhaps something good could come out of it eventually, since the people who made gow at the dawn of time were clueless.

I'm glad you added this at the end. My main point about this whole project revolves around this last statement of yours. The major flaws of gow classic are 6 and 8. 6 at best is marginally playable with a constant threat every game of being towered on the backside. 8 is totally unplayable and 90% of games they move to s9.

Secondly, you mention the "best" strategy is to power... hmmm.... in the few games that have already been played.. PB (^Paperboy~Sol^) raxxed Poiuiyt at 11 (top left) from 10. In another game, I saw a rush that worked well. Powering happens to be one strat that in your opinion is the only option. However, PB thought otherwise. This is why, I need input and feedback from other players.

Thirdly, I like your constructive criticism. But being altruistic, and looking at your comments, I see that you have pointed out flaws (in your opinion) but really have not provided any solutions. Case and point ;

-I know what possible tactics you wanted to open up with the tiny path below the entrance of 10 but don't go with such a narrow path. Think of another option.


What is this "other option"? Please provide solutions to EXACTLY what you would like to have done. A wider path, a convergent path (2 paths that meet), a divergent path (2 or more paths that split), and such. It's always easiest to say, I don't like the cheeseburger at McDonald's and to say, "Make it better". Well what specifically would you like to do to, "Make it better". I'm not harping on you, I like your comments, but in my opinion they are dicey and diluted. If you could give me specific examples of what to consider to change or better yet if you have the map editor and make changes and kick it back to me. I'll take a look at the maps side by side and see what you are talking about. As it is making maps does take a lot of creativity and spacing is always an issue. Looking at the map now, it is set up so that TVB will be right vs left. Not sure if you noticed that feature. I have to change start spots because I messed up on the demo. This is one thing that needs to be changed on my list.

Please do give me more feedback and input... If you can edit the map with your ideas, I'll send you my email in a PM.

Let me know... Thanks !!
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Re: New Map - Forgotten Pathways (Total Gow style map) - by the Good Shepherd
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2017, 02:20:32 AM »
We'll do something about it when I have enough time.
I think fast powering is the best option because every starting spot is easily defended, but at the same time it is difficult to get up to 3 or more bases. Of course I'd have to try some strategies with good players to be certain.

Regarding the narrow path at 10, one intuitive solution is to make the path possible to block with a farm and at the same time make it possible to choke. Alternatively, you can also think of opening up different tactics, strategies. One comment is that, if someone starts at 10, he'll chop towards the narrow path in mid game so the pathing issue will be solved in that scenario.

Also I'd like to add that I think from a 1s perspective.

About the mine at s6, you could replace the lake with wood (close from the top) and make it possible to mine s6 from either down-right or down-left or both positions and see how it works out.

I could analyze every little spot on the map, but I prefer to do so after it's more prepared.