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Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind 1604  48

Moderator Sappers Posts: 837 Karma: +53/-3 *****

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Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2017, 02:58:24 PM »
A brief note on pain and suffering.

I'll start with saying I know suffering. I know suffering that lasts for years. I know physical pain. I know emotional pain.

Pain hurts. Yes.

But the assumption that if we experience pain and suffering in this life, that shows that God is either bad or doesn't love us, is false.

There are times when parents give pain to their children in the hopes that this pain will give them some measure of future benefit, for example when giving vaccines or dental fillings. A child being forced to eat broccoli when he wants candy may feel like Mommy is mean.

Here's an example from a book by Lee Strobel. A bear gets stuck in a trap.



A person who finds the bear and wants to help the bear may want to pry the trap off (painful), shoot the bear with a tranquilizer dart (painful), or forcibly restrain the bear (painful, scary) in order to remove the trap that would lead to its demise.

The bear would perceive these attempts to help as attacks and see the human as an enemy.

As the bear is limited in its understanding of what the man is wanting to do to help it, so we are limited in our understanding, very much MORE so, in our understanding of God's action or apparent inaction in our lives here on earth.

To think that pain and suffering could be for our good, for our benefit, in ways that we can't see from our temporal vantage point, is often a thought we avoid when we are suffering.

How could this happen to me? What did I do to deserve this? I don't deserve this! He/she doesn't deserve that! God must not care at all!

Those are more common thoughts that I myself have had when in pain or watching someone I care about in pain.

If we look at the cross, where Jesus took the most unimaginable tortuous suffering on Himself for you and me, we can be assured that God does have our best interests in mind, that He does love us!!

Yes, it's hard to trust when life hurts. It's hard when you lose someone you love. It's hard when you're in so much physical pain that you feel like you can't bear it, that it will literally kill you.

But I can say that the pain I've experienced in my life has ultimately been good for me. Sometimes I don't know how or see it, but sometimes I do.

One small way that pain has helped form me is that it gives me more compassion towards others who are hurting. It makes me want to help other people who might be hurting.

Sometimes we need pain to stop us from sinning. We might be going down a wrong path, doing things God tells us not to do, and ignoring what God has to say. Continuing down this path could wreak havoc on the lives of many people, and cause a lot of pain to a lot of people. So experiencing personal pain as a result of wrongdoing can be discipline to lead us to repent from sin and turn back to God and do what He says, even when it's not what we feel like doing.

Pain is not the ultimate enemy.

God wants to save us from eternal destruction and spare us from joining the devil in hell for eternity in the lake of fire.

Pain can often be a method that is used to that end, the ultimate saving of souls.

There is so much we don't understand, but we have the evidence to see that God does love us and that we can trust Him completely.

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Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2017, 05:12:55 PM »
If a pilot crashes a jet plane and then the plane is damaged, that doesn't prove that the jet plane wasn't amazingly designed.

human body that you say was created by the infallible god vs a jet designed by fallible humans isn't really an apt comparison.

some flaws of the body i am referring to:  our use of the pharynx for both ingesting as well respiration. this can and has led to choking if we aren't careful.

extremely narrow birth canals on women, leading to tremendous pain. previously a leading cause of death for women was giving birth, improvements in medicine fixed this.

the blind spot in our vision (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_spot_%28vision%29)

 
so you probably want to be careful with this argument, you are indeed unwittingly claiming god is fallible when linking the greatness of god with the human body, that is far from the perfect machine you believe.
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Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2017, 10:02:51 PM »
But Lambchops didn't even say he believed in it; he said he didn't really but that it'd be nice.

Yes. One thing I am sure of is that humans aren't infallible, and that if God exists, none of the human religions (Christian/Muslim/Judaism/Bhuddism etc.) have 100% got it right. So if I do ever meet God I'm pretty sure she will be something else entirely.

As for the world being messed up, surely for a creator, the only point in creating something is to give it free will and see what it does by itself, otherwise it's not a creation - it's a mural.
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Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2017, 07:21:23 PM »
from what i found out you dont meet god at all.....and he likes you to be holy as he is..well gone back general listening to music ill be there by meself.
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Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2017, 08:15:56 PM »
i know u got some haunted locations in aus..
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Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2017, 08:42:08 PM »
my main objective is to own all our haunted houses in my family..but my dam dog killed my great aunts ducks she still hates me ..im out of the house that raised all my family roots
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Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2017, 09:16:58 PM »
its why your a thinker and not a psychic
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Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2017, 09:33:15 PM »
al copone was a liar lol yeah right
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Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2017, 10:03:32 PM »
im bitchy its a trait ..everyone is one the same page how great :thumbsup:
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Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2017, 10:18:46 PM »
but fixing to go to the bar and run the jukebox..tip the bartenders by the rounds u own the place
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Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2017, 11:55:00 PM »
yal right good luck
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Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2017, 06:32:38 AM »
42.
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Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2017, 10:46:00 PM »
If a pilot crashes a jet plane and then the plane is damaged, that doesn't prove that the jet plane wasn't amazingly designed.

human body that you say was created by the infallible god vs a jet designed by fallible humans isn't really an apt comparison.

some flaws of the body i am referring to:  our use of the pharynx for both ingesting as well respiration. this can and has led to choking if we aren't careful.

extremely narrow birth canals on women, leading to tremendous pain. previously a leading cause of death for women was giving birth, improvements in medicine fixed this.

the blind spot in our vision (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_spot_%28vision%29)

 
so you probably want to be careful with this argument, you are indeed unwittingly claiming god is fallible when linking the greatness of god with the human body, that is far from the perfect machine you believe.

When studying the human body, it is undeniable that it is a marvelously designed machine.

Just because things go wrong occasionally does not prove lack of design. Most people in the world have successfully exited from a woman's birth canal, and when you consider that there are over 7 billion of us, I'd say its success rate is remarkably high. Most people manage breathing and eating alright without choking to death the vast majority of the time.

You take for granted the capability. You assume function, that things should work. If evolution is true, and everything is just a random accident, why should anything work?

Even studying any section or component of the body, such as the eye, the ear, the conception, gestation, and birthing of a child, the ability to walk, speech, the brain, the sense of taste, the sense of touch, our ability to feel emotions and thoughts that we know are real things but are invisible things that still somehow take up real estate in our physical, biological brains, and you're not hard-hearted about it, you'll find yourself more amazed than words can describe!

We are truly fearfully and wonderfully made!!

Think about this:

Imagine you were given all the money and supplies you could ever want, and a team of workers to do your bidding, and you were supposed to design out of raw materials, a robotic entity that can do everything that the human body can do...it would be an impossible feat.

Take a look at this paper on bipedal robots. The author says they fall down when slightly pushed, they walk very slowly, and can't take corners without slowing down significantly.

https://www.ihmc.us/users/jpratt/publications/JPratt_HuroSotBook2003.pdf

Advanced scientists have worked for years and years, using tons of money and effort, trying to design something that walks on two legs like a person.

Their best efforts are still defeated by something as simple as uneven terrain.

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/2/9/14563036/bipedal-two-legged-robot-cassie-agility-robotics

The design of the human leg and foot, which we take for granted, is so complex and advanced that the smartest people in the world today don't fully understand all its workings.

Even if 30 years from now, humans were able to design something that more closely mimics human movement and doesn't topple at the first nudge, there would still be tons of things that it wouldn't do that the human leg does.

The human leg can feel hot and cold, touch, wind, pain. The human leg can heal itself when cut or scraped. The muscles in the human leg can become stronger and faster with regular use.

If you can't see the beauty and the design, it's because you don't want to see it!

It's not because it's not there!



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Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2017, 06:45:22 PM »
Same seminar, better quality video (less blurry)

100 Reasons Why Evolution is So Stupid! - Dr. Kent Hovind - YouTube