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Testimonies of ex Christians's that had me in tears: beautiful 246  29

Ogre Mage Posts: 1849 Karma: +78/-4 The General ********

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Re: Testimonies of ex Christians's that had me in tears: beautiful
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2017, 10:47:55 AM »
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

Sahih Bukhari 1:6:301



Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri

On 'Id ul Fitr or 'Id ul Adha Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) went out to the Musalla. After finishing the prayer, he delivered the sermon and ordered the people to give alms. He said, "O people! Give alms." Then he went towards the women and said. "O women! Give alms, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were you (women)." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He replied, "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious wise man astray." Then he left. And when he reached his house, Zainab, the wife of Ibn Masud, came and asked permission to enter It was said, "O Allah's Apostle! It is Zainab." He asked, 'Which Zainab?" The reply was that she was the wife of Ibn Mas'ub. He said, "Yes, allow her to enter." And she was admitted. Then she said, "O Prophet of Allah! Today you ordered people to give alms and I had an ornament and intended to give it as alms, but Ibn Masud said that he and his children deserved it more than anybody else." The Prophet replied, "Ibn Masud had spoken the truth. Your husband and your children had more right to it than anybody else."

Sahih Bukhari 2:24:541


Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri

The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind."

Sahih Bukhari 3:48:826


And get two witnesses of your own men, and if there are not two men then a man and two women such as you choose for witnesses - so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her ... "

Al-Qur'an 2:182


If the teachings of Mohammad, known collectively as Islam, are the truth, then you have presented an unreliable, mentally and spiritually deficient witness. Her story cannot be accepted as true unless you present a second woman to agree with her words and provide the same witness, confirming her story.

Alternately, you may present a male witness.



Ogre Mage Posts: 1849 Karma: +78/-4 The General ********

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Re: Testimonies of ex Christians's that had me in tears: beautiful
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2017, 09:20:37 PM »
By attempting to post a witness to agree with Kelly's story, you confirm that you accept and believe the notion that women are spiritually and mentally deficient, as expressed in the teachings of Islam, and that two women are required to affirm a story where only one man would be required.

According to your own professed religion, you have produced two incompetent witnesses. The second woman is not confirming Kelly's story about the modelling agency that called her too fat to be a model and her disinterest in following the stringent diet and exercise regimen required to become as skinny as required. The second woman is telling a completely different, unrelated story.

However, since I know Islam is a man-made concoction of hate and oppression, dictated by the illiterate Mohammad in the 6th century A.D., I will ignore the nonsensical notion that women are automatically spiritually and mentally deficient on account of being female, and respond to their stories as if they were true.



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Re: Testimonies of ex Christians's that had me in tears: beautiful
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2017, 09:56:21 PM »
Kelly's Reasons for Leaving "Christianity"

1. Parents divorced when she was 8, went to live with mother.

2. Did not feel involved in her mother's new life with her boyfriend and their new daughter, and wanted to move out at age 15. Her mother showed no interest in stopping her from moving out.

3. Started modelling. Was told she was too fat.

Number of valid reasons for rejecting Jesus Christ and the Word of God: none

None of these actions that caused her pain are condoned in the Bible. Divorce is sin and adultery, her mother's new sexual relationship with another man while her husband was still alive was adultery, her mother's indifference toward her is not loving, and her being valued for her appearance instead of as a human being does not line up with the Bible either.

Quote from Kelly (2:05):

"I'd tell everyone I was Christian, but I wasn't Christian. I didn't do anything Christian-like."

This woman admits she was not a Christian. She never mentions Jesus or the Bible, so there is really no evidence that she ever was a believer in Jesus. Anyone can enter a church building. It does not automatically mean you believe in Jesus as your Savior from sin, which is the defining characteristic of a Christian.


Also says she does not know if she is really a Muslim. "I have to wear this (scarf/hijab) to tell myself I'm a Muslim...I wanna wake up and know that I'm a Muslim instead of having to tell myself." Seems to think wearing an outfit makes her a Muslim.

If one does not believe what the Quran and other Islamic texts teach, one cannot truly consider themselves Muslim. Religion is what one believes, not what one wears or where one goes.

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Re: Testimonies of ex Christians's that had me in tears: beautiful
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2017, 10:44:53 PM »
Kelly seems to imagine that the people surrounding her were Christians. This is a common misconception of Muslims, the belief that all of North America is made up of Christians, just because we live here and have at some time in the past been known as Christian nations.

The behaviors and attitudes that Kelly was seeing around her do not reflect the teachings and attitudes of Christ

This is what the Bible actually says on the things that she saw that bothered her and caused her pain in her life:

Divorce

Mark 10:6-12

6 But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’ 7 ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

10 In the house His disciples also asked Him again about the same matter. 11 So He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. 12 And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”

Malachi 2:16

“For the Lord God of Israel says
That He hates divorce,
For it covers one’s garment with violence,”
Says the Lord of hosts.
“Therefore take heed to your spirit,
That you do not deal treacherously.”

Romans 7:2-3

 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.

Hebrews 13:4

Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

Ephesians 5:25-33

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.


End of quotes from the Bible on divorce.

As you can see, the Bible does not promote divorce and the pain and chaos it causes in the lives of everyone in the family.


The Bible on Parenting


Proverbs 22:6

Train up a child in the way he should go,
And when he is old he will not depart from it.

2 Timothy 3:12-15

12 Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 6:4

4 And you, fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath, but bring them up in the training and admonition of the Lord.

Colossians 3:21

21 Fathers, do not provoke your children, lest they become discouraged.

1 Peter 4:8

8 And above all things have fervent love for one another, for “love will cover a multitude of sins.”

1 John 4:7

7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

1 John 3:16

16 By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17 But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?



End of quotes from Bible on what kind of behavior Kelly should have seen from her parents. If her parents were unfaithful, unloving, uncaring, disinterested, or unkind, it is from their own sinfulness, not from any defect in Jesus of the Word of God.


The Value of a Woman

10
Who can find a virtuous wife?
For her worth is far above rubies.
11
The heart of her husband safely trusts her;
So he will have no lack of gain.
12
She does him good and not evil
All the days of her life.
13
She seeks wool and flax,
And willingly works with her hands.
14
She is like the merchant ships,
She brings her food from afar.
15
She also rises while it is yet night,
And provides food for her household,
And a portion for her maidservants.
16
She considers a field and buys it;
From her profits she plants a vineyard.
17
She girds herself with strength,
And strengthens her arms.
18
She perceives that her merchandise is good,
And her lamp does not go out by night.
19
She stretches out her hands to the distaff,
And her hand holds the spindle.
20
She extends her hand to the poor,
Yes, she reaches out her hands to the needy.
21
She is not afraid of snow for her household,
For all her household is clothed with scarlet.
22
She makes tapestry for herself;
Her clothing is fine linen and purple.
23
Her husband is known in the gates,
When he sits among the elders of the land.
24
She makes linen garments and sells them,
And supplies sashes for the merchants.
25
Strength and honor are her clothing;
She shall rejoice in time to come.
26
She opens her mouth with wisdom,
And on her tongue is the law of kindness.
27
She watches over the ways of her household,
And does not eat the bread of idleness.
28
Her children rise up and call her blessed;
Her husband also, and he praises her:
29
“Many daughters have done well,
But you excel them all.”
30
Charm is deceitful and beauty is passing,
But a woman who fears the Lord, she shall be praised.
31
Give her of the fruit of her hands,
And let her own works praise her in the gates.

1 Timothy 3:11

11 Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.

Proverbs 11:16

16
A gracious woman retains honor,
But ruthless men retain riches.

2 Corinthians 4:16-18

16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day. 17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory, 18 while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Proverbs 31:30

Charm is deceitful and beauty is passing,
But a woman who fears the Lord, she shall be praised.

End of quotes from Bible on the importance of character and inward person over external beauty



Ogre Mage Posts: 1849 Karma: +78/-4 The General ********

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Re: Testimonies of ex Christians's that had me in tears: beautiful
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2017, 10:50:54 AM »
If Jesus is not God, how did He do all the miracles He did?

If Jesus is not God, why did He say He was?

If Jesus is not God, how did He rise from the dead?

If Jesus is not God, how has He changed so many broken lives and healed so many lost people, like David Wood, the ex-psychopath atheist who went to prison for bashing his father's head in with a hammer? Like Bryon Widner who was a violent gang member and white supremacist covered in intentionally provocative tattoos who had his entire racist body canvas painfully removed with 25 surgeries after He became a Christian?

https://youtu.be/DakEcY7Z5GU

https://youtu.be/w0k07szJrEY



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Re: Testimonies of ex Christians's that had me in tears: beautiful
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2017, 11:55:18 PM »
Ogre Mage Posts: 1849 Karma: +78/-4 The General ********

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Re: Testimonies of ex Christians's that had me in tears: beautiful
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2017, 02:07:46 PM »
Tora, if you believe the teachings of Mohammad, why do you continue to produce unreliable, mentally and spiritually deficient female witnesses, with whom Islam's hell fires are predominantly filled?



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BabyShark

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Re: Testimonies of ex Christians's that had me in tears: beautiful
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2017, 03:04:56 PM »
You are also clearly incapable of defending your views reasonably or answering questions.

I don't even believe you've watched the content you're sharing.

If you had a sensible way of looking at things, you would have recognized that Kelly's reasons for leaving what she called "Christianity" were completely unrelated to Christianity. You would have noticed that she admitted she wasn't really a Christian, but only said she was.

You would have noticed that divorce, not taking good care of your children, adultery, and looking at women as objects are not in line with Biblical teaching.

You have not answered any of these with reason.

Posting more videos you haven't even watched is empty and has no value in debate, especially from female witnesses that, according to Islam, are unreliable and mentally deficient.

So your judgement in posting these is showing to be lacking.
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Re: Testimonies of ex Christians's that had me in tears: beautiful
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2017, 04:54:58 AM »
It's great to see people on this forum discussing religion.  I take a keen interest in interfaith dialogues myself, especially those between Islam and Christianity as these are the two religions that are closest to each other.

BabyShark, I don't agree with what you say about Islam being a man-made concoction of hate and oppression dictated by Mohammad because this is just how you feel and you cannot substantiate this claim.  In fact, Islam has been there since the beginning of mankind, and all the prophets - Adam, Noah, Moses, Jesus, Mohammad, to name a few - were men chosen by God to preach about his oneness.

Mohammad spread that message in so much as he was made to say by revelation from God Almighty in numerous places in the Holy Coran:

"Believe in Allah and His Messenger and the light which He sent down." [Al-Qur'an 64:8]

"We sent you as a witness and a bringer of good news and a warner so that they might believe in Allah and His Messenger." [Al-Qur'an 48:8-9]

"Believe in Allah and His Messenger, the unlettered Prophet." [Al-Qur'an 7:158]


Jesus Christ told you the same in the Holy Bible:

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." [John 17:3]


The message of Islam is further mentioned in the Holy Bible, when Solomon The Wise was advising his son and through him advising us:

"And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man." [Ecclesiastes 12:12-13]


Then, you said:
If Jesus is not God, how did He do all the miracles He did?

If you have read the Bible well, you would know that miracle is not the test to determine whether someone is God.  Others in the Bible have performed miracles, yet you would not take them as your god:

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." [Matthew 24:24]


"Then the Lord said to Moses and Aaron,

“When Pharaoh says to you, ‘Prove yourselves by working a miracle,’ then you shall say to Aaron, ‘Take your staff and cast it down before Pharaoh, that it may become a serpent.’

”So Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and did just as the Lord commanded. Aaron cast down his staff before Pharaoh and his servants, and it became a serpent."[Exodus 7:8-10]


If Jesus is not God, why did He say He was?

Where does Jesus say in the Bible that He is God?  Prove it to me.  Quote me an unequivocal statement from the Bible where Jesus either says "I am God" or where he says "Worship me".  Do that, and I am ready to accept him as my God.  In fact, Jesus never made such a claim.  To make your task easy, find a red letter bible where every word Jesus ever spoke is in red.

On the contrary, Jesus said again and again:

"The Father is greater than I." [John 14:28]

"My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all..." [John 10:29]

"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." [John 5:30] - incidentally, anyone who submits his will to the Almighty God is a muslim by definition.  Jesus Christ was a muslim.

But why go that far to prove that Jesus is not God?  The answer to that is in the Lord's Prayer.  Here is the quote, with a little emphasis on the pronouns:

"Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." [Luke 11:9-10]

Where does Jesus say he is God?  On the plain sight of it, you can make out that Jesus is actually praying to God...


I will end it here for the time being.  I want to hear what you have to say in response to my comments.
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Re: Testimonies of ex Christians's that had me in tears: beautiful
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2017, 08:23:54 AM »
@Ze_sAiNt

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and questions. This opens the door for some interesting and useful discussion!

You are sharing good, logical questions, and I am happy to delve into them!

If you have read the Bible well, you would know that miracle is not the test to determine whether someone is God.  Others in the Bible have performed miracles, yet you would not take them as your god:

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." [Matthew 24:24]


"Then the Lord said to Moses and Aaron,

“When Pharaoh says to you, ‘Prove yourselves by working a miracle,’ then you shall say to Aaron, ‘Take your staff and cast it down before Pharaoh, that it may become a serpent.’

”So Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and did just as the Lord commanded. Aaron cast down his staff before Pharaoh and his servants, and it became a serpent."[Exodus 7:8-10]

It seems that you are suggesting that Jesus Christ Himself was a "false Christ".

There are two possible sources of supernatural power. God, and God's and humankind's enemy, Satan, who was created to be a holy angel, but rebelled and was thrown down from heaven.

Revelation 12:7-12

7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

The Egyptian sorcerers were getting their power from Satan, as were the witch of Endor (1 Samuel 28:7-20) and the demon-possessed slave girl who was able to give supernaturally received information and bring her owners a profit, until Christ's apostle Paul expelled the demon in Christ's name, as seen in Acts 16:16-24.

Acts 16:16-24

16 Now it happened, as we went to prayer, that a certain slave girl possessed with a spirit of divination met us, who brought her masters much profit by fortune-telling. 17 This girl followed Paul and us, and cried out, saying, “These men are the servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to us the way of salvation.” 18 And this she did for many days.

But Paul, greatly annoyed, turned and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.” And he came out that very hour. 19 But when her masters saw that their hope of profit was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the marketplace to the authorities.

20 And they brought them to the magistrates, and said, “These men, being Jews, exceedingly trouble our city; 21 and they teach customs which are not lawful for us, being Romans, to receive or observe.” 22 Then the multitude rose up together against them; and the magistrates tore off their clothes and commanded them to be beaten with rods. 23 And when they had laid many stripes on them, they threw them into prison, commanding the jailer to keep them securely. 24 Having received such a charge, he put them into the inner prison and fastened their feet in the stocks.

The end of Satan and his demons is described in Revelation 20:10.

10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

It's important to recognize that we have an enemy who wants to destroy us. It is because of Satan that the world is full of deception (many false religions) and suffering.

Jesus, was, in fact, accused of casting out demons by the power of Satan.

Matthew 12:22-30

22 Then one was brought to Him who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him, so that the blind and mute man both spoke and saw. 23 And all the multitudes were amazed and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”

24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.”

25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 Or how can one enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. 30 He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad.

Jesus' supernatural power is not coming from Satan. Satan is the enemy of God.

Jesus' supernatural power is coming from God, obviously.

So, is Jesus just a man? Or is Jesus both fully God and fully man like the Bible teaches?

Would God give supernatural power to a liar?

John 5:18

18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

John 5:23

 23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

Jesus uses the same words that God Himself used from the burning bush with Moses to describe Himself, saying that "before Abraham was, I AM." The Jews were so angry that He was calling Himself God that they picked up stones to stone Him to death, but Jesus just supernaturally walked right through them.

Exodus 3:14

14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”

John 8:48-59

48 Then the Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?”

49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me. 50 And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges. 51 Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.”

52 Then the Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.’ 53 Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Who do You make Yourself out to be?”

54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

So it is clear that Jesus made Himself out to be God.

There are 3 possiblities.

1. Jesus is lying.
2. Jesus is insane.
3. Jesus is telling the truth.

The possibility that Jesus is a good man or a good human prophet does not exist, because good men and good prophets don't go around lying to people and telling everyone they are God.

So we see the evidence:

Jesus had supernatural power to do miracles.

The supernatural power did not come from Satan, but came from God.

Jesus called himself God.

Jesus is God.

So then you bring up some good questions:


Where does Jesus say in the Bible that He is God?  Prove it to me.  Quote me an unequivocal statement from the Bible where Jesus either says "I am God" or where he says "Worship me".  Do that, and I am ready to accept him as my God.  In fact, Jesus never made such a claim.  To make your task easy, find a red letter bible where every word Jesus ever spoke is in red.

On the contrary, Jesus said again and again:

"The Father is greater than I." [John 14:28]

"My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all..." [John 10:29]

"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." [John 5:30] - incidentally, anyone who submits his will to the Almighty God is a muslim by definition.  Jesus Christ was a muslim.

But why go that far to prove that Jesus is not God?  The answer to that is in the Lord's Prayer.  Here is the quote, with a little emphasis on the pronouns:

"Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." [Luke 11:9-10]

Where does Jesus say he is God?  On the plain sight of it, you can make out that Jesus is actually praying to God...


These are great questions, because how does it make sense for God to pray...to Himself? Why is Jesus saying "The Father is greater than I?"

The answer lies in the dual nature of Christ.

Jesus Christ was fully God, AND fully man.

He was born of a virgin, human woman by the Holy Spirit, so He did not inherit sinfulness like all the rest of us do from our parents. Isaiah prophesied about His birth 700 years earlier. Immanuel means "God with us" and describes Jesus as being God in the flesh, here with us.

Matthew 1:18-23

18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. 20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

22 So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: 23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

Philippians 2:5-11

5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Jesus was in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God. He MADE Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. He humbled Himself and became obedient. At the name of Jesus, every knee should BOW...every tongue confess that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD.

Jesus took on humanity, and in His humanity, was lower than God. He did not lose His God-ness, but He took on humanity. Why??

So He could keep the law perfectly (where we cannot) so that He could become the sacrifice for our sins, and die. He needed to be human so he could take our place of punishment. He needed to be under the law as a human, so He could obey it perfectly, never sinning, and He needed to be human so He could die. The wrath of God was put on Him over our sin.

Hebrews 2:5-9

5 For He has not put the world to come, of which we speak, in subjection to angels. 6 But one testified in a certain place, saying:

“What is man that You are mindful of him,
Or the son of man that You take care of him?
7
You have made him a little lower than the angels;
You have crowned him with glory and honor,
And set him over the works of Your hands.
8
You have put all things in subjection under his feet.”

For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.

So we see that in His humanity, Jesus was a "little lower than the angels" and that the reason for Him taking on humanity was so that He might taste death for everyone.

God can't be killed. But God taking on humanity, can die in His humanity, on our behalf.

Jesus ate, drank, slept, cried like other humans. It is in His humanity that He was made lower, and in His humanity that He has humbled Himself. Yet He remains God at the same time and every knee will bow at the name of Jesus in the end.

I'll post this for now, and then continue on your other points.