This is useful discussion of the kind that I welcome. I have limited time atm so I'll just say a few things and more later.
I cannot understand why you are getting so worked up and being overly sensitive when being called 'pathetic' or 'sick'. Your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ uses worse adjectives in your Holy Bible when he addressed others, including his own disciples for crying out loud.
Think about this. You are saying I'm overly sensitive for not enjoying being repeatedly insulted with things like "you're sick, you're pathetic, you're worthless, you're retarded, you'll never be beautiful and have flat boobs, you're a basement-dwelling drug-addicted loser" yet I am not the one trying to pass laws to stop anyone from SAYING anything against my religion lest my feelings become hurt. That would be the Muslims:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/canada-parliament-anti-islamophobia-motion-pass-muslim-irqa-khalid-david-anderson-racism-faith-a7647851.htmlhttp://www.huffingtonpost.ca/thomas-woodley/canada-anti-islamophobia-law_b_12753924.html
I believe in freedom of speech, but that does not mean I'm not human and don't have human emotions and that I enjoy being trash-talked hatefully. I can handle it though. I'm a grown-up and it has not chased me away. I'm just pointing it out because it is factual that these kinds of insults are being used against me repeatedly, and I am not returning those kinds of insults towards the Muslims, who pretend that they are the victims of "Islamophobia" and people not being compassionate towards them as human beings.
Jesus has authority to point out exactly what people are like because He is God and knows people's thoughts and hearts. You don't and I don't. So it is more productive, if we as limited human beings, instead of assuming people's intentions and motives, simply ask the person why they did or said what they did.
If insults are used because of passion for an argument and passion against injustice, the reason for the outburst or view should be given as well, as Jesus did:
23 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. 4 For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. 5 But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. 6 They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, 7 greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, ‘Rabbi, Rabbi.’ 8 But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. 11 But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.
13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. 14 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.
15 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.
16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple, he is obliged to perform it.’ 17 Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that sanctifies the gold? 18 And, ‘Whoever swears by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gift that is on it, he is obliged to perform it.’ 19 Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that sanctifies the gift? 20 Therefore he who swears by the altar, swears by it and by all things on it. 21 He who swears by the temple, swears by it and by Him who dwells in it. 22 And he who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by Him who sits on it.
23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. 24 Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, 30 and say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.’
31 “Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt. 33 Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? 34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
Jesus Laments over Jerusalem
37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”
Jesus tells WHY He is saying these things. The religious leaders of the day were hypocrites. They killed and scourged the prophets God sent (verse 34 Jesus says "I SENT" again showing that He is God). They were guilty of bloodshed of innocent people, but honored the tombs of the prophets they had killed.
They followed laws to a zealous extent like measuring 1/10 of spices to give to God, but did not show mercy or compassion to other people, which God much prefers.
They devoured widows' houses. Instead of taking care of the most vulnerable members of society, like they should have, they took from the poorest, leaving them destitute, homeless, and with nothing. God calls them all kinds of things for their evil deeds. But at the end you see that Jesus loves them. He loved the sinful people, though, and wept over the city of Jerusalem.Luke 19:41
41 Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it
If you want to talk evil deeds of mine that you are aware of, we can. I certainly am a sinner and have done wrong things in my life and am not innocent.
But I am quite certain that insulting my looks or breasts or making false claims about drug habits are not made to improve the world or help me.
Also, I personally do not consider "woman" an insult. I rather think that thinking "woman" is insulting is insulting.
You keep on attributing women oppression and violence to Islam but have so far failed to quote a single verse IN CONTEXT from the Qur'an about Islam preaching violence. I am emphasizing on the words "IN CONTEXT" because you have so far only quoted verses without the text that comes before and after them. To make sure you understand the word 'context', here is the definition: "the parts of something written or spoken that immediately precede and follow a word or passage and clarify its meaning".
If the Quran's orders to kill and/or subjugate, drive out, or slay non-Muslims, apostates, Jews, and Christians are MISUNDERSTOOD by Muslims who are carrying out these orders, why is there not a massive movement within Islam against this "misunderstanding"?
Quran (5:33) – “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement.”
The above verse includes me, because I am "waging war" against Allah and Muhammad since my belief is that Muhammad was a man, a regular, sinful man (who married a 6 year old girl, Aishah, and consummated the marriage when she was 9) who invented Allah, and that Allah was ultimately Muhammad's sock puppet to make the people around him do what he wanted. I do not believe that a man who marries a child is a perfect example. I believe it's wrong for an adult to have sex with a child. I believe there is evidence that points to Islamic Scriptures as being a human production rather than from some supreme divine being, including scientific inaccuracy and that Allah always gave special favoritism to Muhammad in ways that were essentially Muhammad's own personal preferences. I am not doing this to offend or hurt anyone, but rather the opposite, to help Muslims look carefully at what it is the beliefs are and consider whether the teachings are true, good, and holy, or whether they are flawed and the product of a sinful human being. I know that a lot of people would want to kill me for daring to question Islam and Muhammad. We all have to die some day. Honestly, it's the torture before death part that scares me more. I care about Muslim people. I do not think I'm better than them. I want to see Muslim people, both men and women, experience real love, the love of God, and real freedom from the burdens of Islamic teaching that lay many rules and laws, but apparently no certainty or comfort of being able to obtain heaven, especially if you are a woman (since Islamic hell is supposedly full of women because they are inferior), but even if you are a man, because you never know if you have been good enough or done enough. I feel certain that there must be Muslim men who WANT to love their daughters and protect their daughters, sisters, wives, but the culture requires them to treat them a certain way. I think it's NATURAL to love your own family, and that all humans, both men and women want to be loved for who they are and treated with kindness and gentleness.
Quran (4:95) – “Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward.”
Quran (2:191-193) – “And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing…but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)”
Quran (2:216) – “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.” Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.
Quran (4:74) – “Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.”
Quran (4:89) – “They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”
Quran (8:39) – “And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah”
(These quotes are taken from http://taylormarshall.com/2015/01/islam-really-peaceful-religion-quotes-quran.html
If these verses are misunderstood by the average reader, including the average Muslim, to actually mean what they say, as opposed to meaning something other than what they say, then why are the Muslims who "truly understand" the verses not crying out in masses against the Muslims who misunderstand (and actually carry out jihad against infidels) and talk about dominating the world, as seen here?:Muslim Bloopers-Telling what they really believe- Must see - YouTube
Your verse from Jesus was actually taken completely out of context, and He was certainly not instructing His followers to kill anyone, and you do not see Christians going around en masse killing people in the name of Jesus. For someone who was criticizing taking things out of context, it's surprising that you went ahead and did just that so soon after.
Here is the framework of the verse you quoted from Luke 19. Jesus was telling a PARABLE. A story! It is part of an illustration that Jesus was using to teach the people, and not at all a command for Christians then or now to go killing people.Luke 19:11-27
11 Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately. 12 Therefore He said: “A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants, delivered to them ten minas, and said to them, ‘Do business till I come.’ 14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We will not have this man to reign over us.’
15 “And so it was that when he returned, having received the kingdom, he then commanded these servants, to whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned ten minas.’ 17 And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant; because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.’ 18 And the second came, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned five minas.’ 19 Likewise he said to him, ‘You also be over five cities.’
20 “Then another came, saying, ‘Master, here is your mina, which I have kept put away in a handkerchief. 21 For I feared you, because you are an austere man. You collect what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow.’ 22 And he said to him, ‘Out of your own mouth I will judge you, you wicked servant. You knew that I was an austere man, collecting what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow. 23 Why then did you not put my money in the bank, that at my coming I might have collected it with interest?’
24 “And he said to those who stood by, ‘Take the mina from him, and give it to him who has ten minas.’ 25 (But they said to him, ‘Master, he has ten minas.’) 26 ‘For I say to you, that to everyone who has will be given; and from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 27 But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’”
Jesus actually said His people should love and pray for enemies.Matthew 5:43-45
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
I do pray for you, and as I learn more, I am developing more of a heart for Muslims, men and women and children, who are bound in this system. My hope is for them to know the amazing love of God and the freedom of knowing their sins are forgiven in Jesus Christ!