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WOMEN'S RIGHTS and FEMINISM 1569  67

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BabyShark

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Re: WOMEN'S RIGHTS and FEMINISM
« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2017, 03:20:36 PM »
One of my takeaways from these discussions so far is that we North American women are actually quite spoiled and whine about relatively petty things.

I now just want to worship the ground my husband walks on and go enjoy the body parts that I still actually have that haven't been cut out with him.

I suspect I may be rather *busy* for a little while.
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Re: WOMEN'S RIGHTS and FEMINISM
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2017, 05:18:33 PM »
Random thought  - Vaginoplasty that isn't necessary but desired by women who want to improve the appearance of their vaginas is often classified as female genital mutilation by WHO. We don't hear about reactionaries talking about that though, I wonder why.
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Re: WOMEN'S RIGHTS and FEMINISM
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2017, 05:28:45 PM »
One of my takeaways from these discussions so far is that we North American women are actually quite spoiled and whine about relatively petty things.

I now just want to worship the ground my husband walks on and go enjoy the body parts that I still actually have that haven't been cut out with him.


You can be submissive all you want to men, no one cares. In general though women should probably look to progress out of 19th century mentality. You can invent all the reasons in your head about men being oppressed, lol, about women having too many human rights today, lol, to justify your patriarchal disease of the mind. Simply though, you don't have the facts on your side. You don't have even basic human decency on your side.
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Re: WOMEN'S RIGHTS and FEMINISM
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2017, 06:02:53 AM »
One of my takeaways from these discussions so far is that we North American women are actually quite spoiled and whine about relatively petty things.

My takeaway from these discussions, as many would observe, is that he (or in fact, she) who lives in a glass house shouldn't throw stones.
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Re: WOMEN'S RIGHTS and FEMINISM
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2017, 07:16:56 AM »
I agree. The Muslim men who are adulterers should not be throwing stones at women they accuse of adultery (who are often actually innocent).

Woman Stoned for Alleged Adultery (GRAPHIC) - YouTube

I also say the Muslim men who want sexual pleasure themselves should not deprive women of sexual pleasure by ensuring all Muslim females have their clitoris and/or labia cut off forcibly and against their will because Muhammad thought it was a good idea.

Female Genital Mutilation - FGM English - YouTube

Female Genital Mutilation And Islam- THE FACTS - YouTube

Halal Certification link to FGM Female Genital Mutilation & Islam - YouTube

How I Survived Female Genital Mutilation - YouTube

This mutilation and amputation of women's healthy sex organs provides NO health benefits, but rather many complications including death, extreme pain with childbirth, hemorrhage, HIV, trauma, urinary problems, severe pain, infection, wound healing problems, shock, plus psychological effects, depression, anxiety, post traumatic stress disorder, and of course the obvious, NEVER BEING ABLE TO FEEL SEXUAL PLEASURE IN THEIR ENTIRE LIVES.

I also say Muslim men who don't want their bodies and minds destroyed, damaged, and traumatized should not destroy, damage, and traumatize little girls by "marrying" and raping them, sometimes killing them by forcibly penetrating a girl's body that is nowhere close to being ready for adult relations. Oh by the way, her genitals have already been cut out and sewn up, often leaving just a tiny hole where pee (and blood when she grows up) can come out. The man is supposed to force himself into a child's body through the stitched up, already traumatized tissue. Torture for her, obviously. It's sick. Pedophilia is part of Islam, and Muhammad himself married and raped a little girl.

8-year-old Yemeni Child Bride Dies on Wedding Night! - YouTube

11 Year Old Child Bride Speaks About Evil Islam, Murdered After - YouTube

Muslim men don't want to be beaten with weapons by people stronger than them. Yet they do this to girls and women. Here a man beats a girl who ran away from an abusive forced marriage.

How To Beat Your Child Bride _ savage tradition - YouTube

I agree with you.

I think people should treat people the way they want to be treated. That's what the Bible teaches.

Luke 6:31

Do to others as you would have them do to you.








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Re: WOMEN'S RIGHTS and FEMINISM
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2017, 08:16:59 AM »
@BabyShark

You can post all the YouTube videos you want in an attempt to promote a twisted view of Islam, but you're only fooling yourself.

Despite all the mutilating and stoning and clitoris cutting and whatever else you are trying to attribute to Islam, it's mind-boggling to know that Islam is still the fastest growing religion in the world today and worse even for you to digest, American women are flocking towards Islam.  You are unable to account for that.  That, and the other point I mentioned earlier that you dare not comment on until now:

The picture that David Wood is trying to paint of Muhammad is that of an oppressor and a dictator.  But if you want to know the truth about Muhammad, then let's hear what non-muslim (and mostly christian) scholars and historians have to say about Muhammad and Islam:

1. George Bernard Shaw - The Genuine Islam Vol.No.8, 1936

"If any religion had the chance of ruling over England, nay Europe within the next hundred years, it could be Islam."

“I believe if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring much needed peace and happiness.
I have studied him - the man and in my opinion is far from being an anti–Christ. He must be called the Savior of Humanity.
I have prophesied about the faith of Mohammad that it would be acceptable the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today.”


2. Nepolean Bonaparte – Quoted in Christian Cherfils BONAPARTE ET ISLAM (PARIS  1914)

“I hope the time is not far off when I shall be able to unite all the wise and educated men of all the countries and establish a uniform regime based on the principles of Qur'an which alone are true and which alone can lead men to happiness.”


3. M.K.Gandhi, YOUNG INDIA, 1924

"...I became more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and his own mission. These, and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every trouble."


4. Lamartine - Histoire de la Turquie, Paris 1854, Vol II, pp. 276-77

"If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astounding results are the three criteria of human genius, who could dare to compare any great man in modern history with Muhammad? The most famous men created arms, laws and empires only. They founded, if anything at all, no more than material powers which often crumbled away before their eyes. This man moved not only armies, legislations, empires, peoples and dynasties, but millions of men in one-third of the then inhabited world; and more than that, he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas, the beliefs and souls... the forbearance in victory, his ambition, which was entirely devoted to one idea and in no manner striving for an empire; his endless prayers, his mystic conversations with God, his death and his triumph after death; all these attest not to an imposture but to a firm conviction which gave him the power to restore a dogma. This dogma was twofold, the unit of God and the immateriality of God; the former telling what God is, the latter telling what God is not; the one overthrowing false gods with the sword, the other starting an idea with words.

"Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images; the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?"


5. Edward Gibbon and Simon Ocklay  - History of the Saracen Empire, London, 1870, p. 54

"It is not the propagation but the permanency of his religion that deserves our wonder, the same pure and perfect impression which he engraved at Mecca and Medina is preserved, after the revolutions of twelve centuries by the Indian, the African and the Turkish proselytes of the Koran...The Mahometans have uniformly withstood the temptation of reducing the object of their faith and devotion to a level with the senses and imagination of man. 'I believe in One God and Mahomet the Apostle of God', is the simple and invariable profession of Islam. The intellectual image of the Deity has never been degraded by any visible idol; the honors of the prophet have never transgressed the measure of human virtue, and his living precepts have restrained the gratitude of his disciples within the bounds of reason and religion."


6. Rev. Bosworth Smith, Mohammed and Mohammadanism, London 1874, p. 92

"He was Caesar and Pope in one; but he was Pope without Pope's pretensions, Caesar without the legions of Caesar: without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a palace, without a fixed revenue; if ever any man had the right to say that he ruled by the right divine, it was Mohammed, for he had all the power without its instruments and without its supports."


7. Annie Besant, The Life and Teachings of Muhammad, Madras 1932, p. 4

"It is impossible for anyone who studies the life and character of the great Prophet of Arabia, who knows how he taught and how he lived, to feel anything but reverence for that mighty Prophet, one of the great messengers of the Supreme. And although in what I put to you I shall say many things which may be familiar to many, yet I myself feel whenever I re-read them, a new way of admiration, a new sense of reverence for that mighty Arabian teacher."


8. Montgomery Watt, Mohammad at Mecca, Oxford 1953, p. 52

"His readiness to undergo persecutions for his beliefs, the high moral character of the men who believed in him and looked up to him as leader, and the greatness of his ultimate achievement – all argue his fundamental integrity. To suppose Muhammad an impostor raises more problems than it solves. Moreover, none of the great figures of history is so poorly appreciated in the West as Muhammad."


9. James A. Michener, 'Islam: The Misunderstood Religion' in Reader's Digest (American Edition), May 1955, pp. 68-70

"Muhammad, the inspired man who founded Islam, was born about A.D. 570 into an Arabian tribe that worshipped idols. Orphaned at birth, he was always particularly solicitous of the poor and needy, the widow and the orphan, the slave and the downtrodden. At twenty he was already a successful businessman, and soon became director of camel caravans for a wealthy widow. When he reached twenty-five, his employer, recognizing his merit, proposed marriage. Even though she was fifteen years older, he married her, and as long as she lived, remained a devoted husband.

"Like almost every major prophet before him, Muhammad fought shy of serving as the transmitter of God's word, sensing his own inadequacy. But the angel commanded 'Read'. So far as we know, Muhammad was unable to read or write, but he began to dictate those inspired words which would soon revolutionize a large segment of the earth: "There is one God."

"In all things Muhammad was profoundly practical. When his beloved son Ibrahim died, an eclipse occurred, and rumors of God's personal condolence quickly arose. Whereupon Muhammad is said to have announced, 'An eclipse is a phenomenon of nature. It is foolish to attribute such things to the death or birth of a human-being.'"

"At Muhammad's own death an attempt was made to deify him, but the man who was to become his administrative successor killed the hysteria with one of the noblest speeches in religious history: 'If there are any among you who worshipped Muhammad, he is dead. But if it is God you worshipped, He lives forever.'"


10. Michael H. Hart, The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History, New York: Hart Publishing Company, Inc. 1978, p. 33

"My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular level."

"...It is probable that the relative influence of Muhammad on Islam has been larger than the combined influence of Jesus Christ and St. Paul on Christianity. ...It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single figure in human history."


11. Sarojini Naidu, the famous Indian poetess says – S. Naidu, Ideals of Islam, Speeches and Writings, Madaras, 1918

“It was the first religion that preached and practiced democracy; for, in the mosque, when the call for prayer is sounded and worshippers are gathered together, the democracy of Islam is embodied five times a day when the peasant and king kneel side by side and proclaim: 'God Alone is Great'... “


12. Thomas Caryle – Heros and Heros Worship

“…The lies (Western slander) which well-meaning zeal has heaped round this man (Muhammed) are disgraceful to ourselves only…How one man single-handedly, could weld warring tribes and wandering Bedouins into a most powerful and civilized nation in less than two decades….A silent great soul, one of that who cannot but be earnest. He was to kindle the world; the world’s Maker had ordered so."


13. Stanley Lane-Poole – Table Talk of the Prophet

“He was the most faithful protector of those he protected, the sweetest and most agreeable in conversation. Those who saw him were suddenly filled with reverence; those who came near him loved him; they who described him would say, "I have never seen his like either before or after." He was of great taciturnity, but when he spoke it was with emphasis and deliberation, and no one could forget what he said...”


14. Dr. William Draper, "A History of the Intellectual Development of Europe"

"Four years after the death of Justinian, A.D. 569, was born in Mecca, in Arabia, the man who, of all men, has exercised the greatest influence upon the human race... To be the religious head of many empires, to guide the daily life of one-third of the human race, may perhaps justify the title of a Messenger of God."


15. Leo Tolstoy - The Rule of Prophet Mohammed

“Muhammad has always been standing higher than the Christianity. He does not consider god as a human being and never makes himself equal to God. Muslims worship nothing except God and Muhammad is his Messenger. There is no any mystery and secret in it.”


16. K. S. Ramakrishna Rao - 'Mohammed: The Prophet of Islam,' 1989

"Today after a lapse of fourteen centuries, the life and teachings of Muhammad have survived without the slightest loss, alteration or interpolation. They offer the same undying hope for treating mankind’s many ills, which they did when he was alive. This is not a claim of Muhammad’s followers but also the inescapable conclusion forced upon by a critical and unbiased history."

"The personality of Muhammad is most difficult to get the whole truth of it. Only a glimpse of him I can catch. What dramatic succession of picturesque scenes? There is Muhammad the Prophet; there is Muhammad the General; Muhammad the King; Muhammad the Warrior; Muhammad the Businessman; Muhammad the Preacher; Muhammad the Philosopher; Muhammad the Statesman; Muhammad the Orator; Muhammad the Reformer; Muhammad the Refuge of Orphans; Muhammad the Protector of Slaves; Muhammad the Emancipator of Women; Muhammad the Judge; Muhammad the Saint... In all these magnificent roles and in all these departments of human activities he is equally a hero."




@BabyShark

These historians and famous personalities whom I quoted above have no ulterior motive for making those statements about Muhammad, unlike David Wood who is following his own anti-Islamic propaganda.  So, the choice is yours... would you rather listen to David Wood or the testimonies of these unbiased authors?


I'll end this post by quoting a beautiful verse from the Bible that shows you how to treat your wife with respect:

If two men are fighting and the wife of one of the men comes to save her husband's life, YOU SHOULD CUT OFF HER HAND.

"When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her." [Deuteronomy 25:11-12]

So, every Christian man who loves his wife should cut off her wife's hand when she comes to her rescue.  And this is how the "Loving God" of the Bible teaches you to show love and respect to your wife.

I rest my case.
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Re: WOMEN'S RIGHTS and FEMINISM
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2017, 09:40:17 AM »
@Ze_sAiNt

I'm relieved to see we are finally both on the same page in caring about human rights and stopping abuse!

Let's join together to protest the abuse happening within our religions.

I will stand in front of a local church holding a sign reading "Stop Hand Amputation" and you will stand in front of a local mosque holding a sign reading "Stop Female Genital Mutilation, Wife-Beating, Child Marriage, and Stoning Women".

We will each take a picture of ourselves with our signs in front of the buildings and post them in this forum.

Ok?
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Re: WOMEN'S RIGHTS and FEMINISM
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2017, 06:06:26 AM »
@BabyShark

If you think that 'hand amputation' is the only type of abuse promoted in the Bible, you are sadly mistaken.  I was only giving you a flavor of the kind of lunacy you are condoning by letting people read the Bible.  Your sign should actually read "BAN THE BIBLE" instead because of the immorality and violence it contains.

But wait a minute... a Christian lady already appealed to have the Bible banned!  Anne Spicer, an Irish Christian lady made an appeal to the Irish Censorship Board in 1988 to have the Bible banned.  Here is the quote from the Irish newspaper "The Canberra Times", Friday February 12, 1988:

DUBLIN, Thursday (Reuter), -
A Dublin housewife has asked Irish censors to ban the Bible because she says it glorifies violence, accepts the sexual abuse of young girls and supports mutilation.

"Mutilation and genocide coupled with graphic obscenity and ritual murder is a prominent theme and indeed many of the heroes and heroines are extolled for their murderous ability and promiscuous prowess," 34-year-old Mrs Anne Spicer said.



And she had a very valid point.  Because when you read the Bible, you find that:

1) There are 10 cases of incest in the Bible.  It depicts the types and types of incest that someone can commit.  One example is a father-in-law having intercourse with his daughter-in-law (Genesis 38:12-18)

As a result, incest has reached epidemic proportions in America says Reverend Jimmy Swaggart in his book "Incest : the dark stain on our society, 1987".

Dr. Vernon Jones, an American psychologist of great repute, carried out experiments on groups of school children to whom certain stories were being read. And he said, “These stories make certain slight but permanent changes in character even in the narrow classroom situation.” The type of stories that you read will create the type of mentality that you are going to have.

2) It is a textbook on rape / gang-rape.  Here are a few examples:

- If you want to know how to rape your own sister, the Bible tells you how to (2 Samuel 13:6).

- Wholesale rape between son and 10 of his father's wives (2 Samuel 16:22)

3) It contains pornographic materials - things no decent man could ever read to his wife, his daughter, his sister or even to his fiancée if she is a good woman.

Read Ezekiel Chapter 23 "Whoredoms of the 2 Sisters", Ezekiel Chapter 16 "Jerusalem, the Insatiable Whore", and more and more... I dare not quote verses of these chapters here, else I might be banned for vulgarity and obscenity!

4) It contains verses promoting violence - like:

- “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.” [Numbers 31:17-18]

- "He struck down some of the men of Beth-shemesh because they had looked into the ark of the LORD. He struck down of all the people, 50,070 men, and the people mourned because the LORD had struck the people with a great slaughter." [1 Samuel 6:19]

- "Then the Philistines seized him and gouged out his eyes; and they brought him down to Gaza and bound him with bronze chains, and he was a grinder in the prison." [Judges 16:21]

- "Then David commanded the young men, and they killed them and cut off their hands and feet and hung them up beside the pool in Hebron But they took the head of Ish-bosheth and buried it in the grave of Abner in Hebron." [2 Samuel 4:12]


No wonder George Bernard Shaw said about the Bible:

“THE MOST DANGEROUS BOOK ON EARTH “(the Bible), KEEP IT UNDER LOCK AND KEY.” Keep the Bible out of your children's reach.




@BabyShark

You are being beaten again and again at your own game.  Everything you have said about Islam and the Qur'an has backfired on you.  My advice to you is, as Jesus rightly said:

"Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. For you will be treated as you treat others. The standard you use in judging is the standard by which you will be judged." [Matthew 7:1-3]
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Re: WOMEN'S RIGHTS and FEMINISM
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2017, 04:50:17 PM »
First of all, this is not a game. These topics have to do with real life.

There are real life girls and women being abused, tortured, mutilated, stoned, beaten, raped, and killed every day in Islamic countries. This is reality.

This is not a game.

I am not here to "win" a "game". I like games and I like to play, but this discussion on truth, reality, beliefs, and practices isn't one of them.

I am here to speak for the victims of abuse and oppression, because I care about them. And I'm here to share the truth of the love of Jesus with you and all people because I care about you. I'm not here to hurt you.

I understand that it feels like reporting facts and sharing interviews of real people who were once Muslims and lived in Islamic countries where brutal abuse of women and girls is the norm and quoting Islamic texts is an attack on you. But my ultimate purpose is to help you realize that Muhammad was not a good guy and that his teachings are not good teachings. He lived a very violent life and killed a lot of people in his life. He was not faithful in marriage, having sex with numerous girls and women, supposedly with the endorsement of "Allah". He married and raped a child. I haven't researched his other wives and sex partners yet, but Aisha was 6 when he "married" her and 9 when he consummated the marriage. He promoted the cutting off of female genitals, which is still cruelly practiced to this very day. He promoted beating women. These are documented in Islamic writings as I have shown in previous posts. But my purpose is to open your eyes to the truth, so you may reject this evil man's false teachings as the work of the devil that they are, and realize your need for a Savior from sin that WE ALL NEED.

Jesus has loved you and me so much He gave His holy life to save us. This is the truth. This truth will set you free from bondage to sin and evil.

You can feel it inside of you, that cutting off little girls' genitals as they struggle and scream while being held down by many forceful hands is wrong. Yet Muhammad endorsed it.

You can feel inside of you, that a man beating a woman is abuse. He is meant to love and protect her. You know it's wrong. Yet Muhammad endorsed it.

You know that murdering people is wrong (even if they are Jews, Christians, atheists, or other non-Muslims), yet Muhammad endorsed Jihad against infidels until all are subjugated and no one worships any god but Allah, who is a false god.

Your conscience tells you these things are wrong. Even the people practicing these things know they are wrong. All the testimonies in the videos indicate that female genital mutilation is something they do not discuss openly. Little girls were threatened with death if they told anyone what happened. They are HIDING it, because they KNOW it's wrong. All of us have a God-given conscience that tells us right from wrong.

Muhammad was wrong. Muhammad's work is from Satan, not God. Satan often tries to copy and pervert and twist what God's created and what God's said and turn a beautiful thing into an ugly thing.

I understand that you're frustrated. I do. I feel for you. If you feel the need to throw insults my way, I understand. I know that according to Islam, saying the ugly truth about Muhammad or criticizing the teachings of Islam is punishable by death. I understand if you want me dead. I know where I'm going when I die. I know Jesus and heaven are waiting for me on the other side.

I want you to have that same comfort, that same knowledge, that your sins have been paid for, that you are loved, you are forgiven, you are precious and valuable, as is each human being to God. God made each of us, boys and girls, men and women, and each one of us is loved.

The true and living God wants people to live in harmony, love, and peace.

1 Corinthians 13:4-8a

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails.


God's love put us first. He sacrificed Himself to act in our best interest, so we could be saved from the penalty of our sins.

That's how God wants us to love each other as humans on earth.

Matthew 22

37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”


Romans 5:8

6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.


I am praying for you and Tora and Lightbringer, and others. I'm not your enemy. I am actually pretty confident that in time, within 5 years, you will become a Christian. Your heart is searching for the truth. I pray that you will find it.

But I understand if you see me the way you were raised to see me, as an enemy to be killed because I will not worship Allah nor will I tolerate the teachings that encourage abuse of women and girls and promote killing people. And if death comes to me one day for speaking the truth to help people, then I can only hope and pray that I can be brave in the face of the pain that will come before it.

I will also comment on a number of things that you've brought up, in the near future, but the reason I'm holding back from doing so at this time is because the most important thing for you to see and know is that you are loved. I want you to have some time to focus on how much you are loved by the living God.

So when I fight for the truth, when you see me in "combat" mode, asserting the truths of God's Word, recognize that I'm doing it because I care about you. And I care about truth.

I want you to know love, real love, the love of God that never dies, that has turned me and you from sinful wretch to beloved treasure.

You are a treasure to the living God.

We have all sinned and earned hell.


This is what He stepped out of heaven's glory to do to save mankind from its own sinfulness. This was His plan to save us, because the wages of sin is death and hell, and we had earned it, but God poured His wrath on a perfect, holy, innocent substitute, Jesus Christ, who literally loved us to death.


So He could have us with Him in heaven!
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Re: WOMEN'S RIGHTS and FEMINISM
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2017, 03:25:54 AM »
First of all, this is not a game. These topics have to do with real life.

There are real life girls and women being abused, tortured, mutilated, stoned, beaten, raped, and killed every day in Islamic countries. This is reality.

This is not a game.

I'm still baffled by your poor understanding of your own native English language.  So, here we go...  This is English 101 for today:

Being beaten at one's own game is an idiom.  It does not actually mean a game is being played.  It means: "To defeat or triumph over someone by using their own strengths, techniques, or tactics to one's own advantage"

Isn't that what you've been trying to do all along?  You use tactics of quoting verses from the Qur'an and using Hadith quotations out of their historical context to prove Islam promotes violence.  So I showed you that your very own Bible glorifies violence, accepts the sexual abuse of young girls and supports mutilation, in the words of Anne Spicer.

Either you can't understand English or you are playing dumb and taking everything I say in its literal meaning, thereby avoiding to comment on the core of the matter by distracting the readers with beautiful necklaces of words?  I'll let the others be the judge of that...

I am here to speak for the victims of abuse and oppression, because I care about them.

Great.  So let's start with the victims of abuse in your own country, America:

The following facts and statistics, drawn from the National Center for Victims of Crime "Child Sexual Abuse" fact sheet, reveals the scope of child sexual abuse in the U.S. and its devastating long-term impact on a child's life:

1. The almost 90,000 cases of child sexual abuse reported each year fall far short of the actual number. Abuse frequently goes unreported because child victims are afraid to tell anyone what happened and the legal procedure for validating an episode is difficult. (American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry)

2. An estimated 25% of girls and 16% of boys experience sexual abuse before they are 18 years old. Statistics for boys may be falsely low because of reporting techniques. (Ann Botash, MD, in Pediatric Annual, May 1997.)

Of all victims of sexual assault reported to law enforcement agencies:
- 67% were under age 18
- 34% were under age 12
- 14% were under age 6

3. Of offenders who victimized children under age 6, 40% were under age 18. (Bureau of Justice Statistics, 2000.)

4. Despite what children are taught about "stranger danger," most child victims are abused by someone they know and trust. When the abuser is not a family member, the victim is more often a boy than a girl. The results of a three-state study of reported rape survivors under age 12 revealed the following about offenders:

- 96% were known to their victims
- 50% were acquaintances or friends
- 20% were fathers
- 16% were relatives
- 4% were strangers
(Advocates for Youth, 1995)

5. Girls are the victims of incest and/or intrafamily sexual abuse much more frequently than boys. Between 33-50% of perpetrators who sexually abuse girls are family members, while only 10-20% of those who sexually abuse boys are intrafamily perpetrators. Intrafamily abuse continues over a longer period of time than sexual abuse outside the family, and some forms -- such as parent-child abuse -- have more serious and lasting consequences.(Finkelhor, 1994.)

6. Behavioral changes are often the first signs of sexual abuse. These can include nervous or aggressive behavior toward adults, early and age-inappropriate sexual provocativeness, alcohol consumption and the use of other drugs. Boys are more likely than girls to act out or behave in aggressive and antisocial ways. (Finkelhor, 1994.)

7. The consequences of child sexual abuse are wide-ranging and varied. They can include:

- chronic depression
- low self-esteem
- sexual dysfunction
- multiple personalities

According to the American Medical Association, 20% of all victims develop serious long-term psychological problems. They may take the form of:

- dissociative responses and other signs of post-traumatic stress syndrome
- chronic states of arousal
- nightmares
- flashbacks
- venereal disease
- anxiety over sex
- fear of exposing the body during medical exams
("Child Sexual Abuse: Does the Nation Face an Epidemic - or a Wave of Hysteria?" CQ Researcher, 1993.)


This is what happens when you read "the most dangerous book on Earth" which promotes sexual abuse of young girls, condones incest and glorifies rape.  People's minds are getting programmed by such immorality.  YOU need to help them by telling them to STOP READING SUCH FILTH IN THE BIBLE.  This is not a Book of God.  God doesn't 'inspire' people to write such immorality.  This is Satan's handiwork.

But this is just the tip of the iceberg.  There are more and more problems in America, according to Reverand Jimmy Swaggart.

He writes in his book on "The Dangers of Alcohol":

There are 11 million drunkards in America and 44 million heavy drinkers. And Jimmy Swaggart says he sees no difference between the two. That means 55 million, he sees all of them to be drunkards.

What did this?  The Bible.  In his very first miracle, Jesus turned water into wine (John 2:7-10) and since then, wine has flowed like water in Christendom.  There's no stopping it now.  And it's the same W-I-N-E that Lot drank and had sex with his own daughters according to the Bible.

And further, according to Reverand Billy Graham in his book on "Homosexuality", he says: "If God doesn't soon bring judgment upon America, He'll have to go back and apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah!".  You now have millions of gays and lesbians in America and your statistics tell us that the numbers are not about to decrease in the future.  How are you dealing with this problem?

Then you have pornography that is being depicted in the Bible.  Ezekiel Chapter 23 "Whoredoms of the 2 Sisters", Ezekiel Chapter 16 "Jerusalem, the Insatiable Whore" to name a few.  The more people read this Bible, the more they become programmed to believe that porn is acceptable.

So BabyShark, before you go all 'Mother Theresa' and try to change the world, start by helping with the victims in your own country.  American Christian families are suffering.  They are being torn apart.  The Bible has caused (and is still causing) chaos in the life of innocent Christians.  It's is time to stop all this.  Pick up your "BAN THE BIBLE" sign and start propagating this to the world.  The world WILL become a better place with your help.

I pray to God that He helps you in this mission. Amen.
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Re: WOMEN'S RIGHTS and FEMINISM
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2017, 01:49:44 PM »
DOES THE BIBLE PROMOTE VIOLENCE?

your very own Bible glorifies violence

This statement is false.

The Bible is a historical text and contains actual, factual recorded eyewitness accounts of events that took place, including a lot of evil committed by a lot of people (such as incest, rape, murder, etc.) The Bible absolutely does not promote incest or rape or violence.

The "Stop Hand Amputation" sign I mentioned would get some confused looks and some laughs, and possibly someone might come talk to me to ask what I'm talking about. Obviously, there is no hand amputation problem within the Christian church. I've been to probably upwards of 50 different Christian churches in my lifetime (I've moved a lot, and when I've travellled, I've often visited and worshipped at local churches wherever I am) and this just doesn't happen. It's laughable.

The verse in the Bible is talking about civil laws for a specific time in a specific place in history, not universal rules for all people of all time. And I suspect, that even at that time, there would be a paucity of handless individuals, since the punishment would likely serve as a strong deterrent to women against crushing and destroying a man's testicles when he is vulnerable and engaged in combat with another man. What do you think should be the punishment for destroying a man's testicles and likely rendering him infertile? In Islam, women and girls can be beaten, mutilated, raped, forcibly married, and killed on a whim. They don't even have to commit a crime. And the men face no punishment or penalty for these abuses because females are considered property and have no rights.

If you held up a sign in front of a mosque reading "Stop Female Genital Mutilation, Forced Marriage, Wife-Beating, and Stoning Women," in America you would likely be threatened, harassed, arrested, but in a Muslim-dominated country, you would be killed, with torture possibly preceding that. And that killing of you for dissent is very much approved of by the Quran, which commands the killing of infidels and dissenters who dare question the teachings of Muhammad.

This topic will be expanded later, probably with a new post, as time allows.

DOES THE BIBLE PROMOTE RAPE/INCEST?

2) It is a textbook on rape / gang-rape.  Here are a few examples:

- If you want to know how to rape your own sister, the Bible tells you how to (2 Samuel 13:6).


The True Story Recorded in the Bible of Amnon and Tamar (2 Samuel 13)

In the course of time, Amnon son of David fell in love with Tamar, the beautiful sister of Absalom son of David.

2 Amnon became so obsessed with his sister Tamar that he made himself ill. She was a virgin, and it seemed impossible for him to do anything to her.

3 Now Amnon had an adviser named Jonadab son of Shimeah, David’s brother. Jonadab was a very shrewd man. 4 He asked Amnon, “Why do you, the king’s son, look so haggard morning after morning? Won’t you tell me?”

Amnon said to him, “I’m in love with Tamar, my brother Absalom’s sister.”

5 “Go to bed and pretend to be ill,” Jonadab said. “When your father comes to see you, say to him, ‘I would like my sister Tamar to come and give me something to eat. Let her prepare the food in my sight so I may watch her and then eat it from her hand.’”

6 So Amnon lay down and pretended to be ill. When the king came to see him, Amnon said to him, “I would like my sister Tamar to come and make some special bread in my sight, so I may eat from her hand.”

7 David sent word to Tamar at the palace: “Go to the house of your brother Amnon and prepare some food for him.” 8 So Tamar went to the house of her brother Amnon, who was lying down. She took some dough, kneaded it, made the bread in his sight and baked it. 9 Then she took the pan and served him the bread, but he refused to eat.

“Send everyone out of here,” Amnon said. So everyone left him. 10 Then Amnon said to Tamar, “Bring the food here into my bedroom so I may eat from your hand.” And Tamar took the bread she had prepared and brought it to her brother Amnon in his bedroom. 11 But when she took it to him to eat, he grabbed her and said, “Come to bed with me, my sister.”

12 “No, my brother!” she said to him. “Don’t force me! Such a thing should not be done in Israel! Don’t do this wicked thing. 13 What about me? Where could I get rid of my disgrace? And what about you? You would be like one of the wicked fools in Israel. Please speak to the king; he will not keep me from being married to you.” 14 But he refused to listen to her, and since he was stronger than she, he raped her.

15 Then Amnon hated her with intense hatred. In fact, he hated her more than he had loved her. Amnon said to her, “Get up and get out!”

16 “No!” she said to him. “Sending me away would be a greater wrong than what you have already done to me.”

But he refused to listen to her. 17 He called his personal servant and said, “Get this woman out of my sight and bolt the door after her.” 18 So his servant put her out and bolted the door after her. She was wearing an ornate robe, for this was the kind of garment the virgin daughters of the king wore. 19 Tamar put ashes on her head and tore the ornate robe she was wearing. She put her hands on her head and went away, weeping aloud as she went.

20 Her brother Absalom said to her, “Has that Amnon, your brother, been with you? Be quiet for now, my sister; he is your brother. Don’t take this thing to heart.” And Tamar lived in her brother Absalom’s house, a desolate woman.

21 When King David heard all this, he was furious. 22 And Absalom never said a word to Amnon, either good or bad; he hated Amnon because he had disgraced his sister Tamar.
Absalom Kills Amnon

23 Two years later, when Absalom’s sheepshearers were at Baal Hazor near the border of Ephraim, he invited all the king’s sons to come there. 24 Absalom went to the king and said, “Your servant has had shearers come. Will the king and his attendants please join me?”

25 “No, my son,” the king replied. “All of us should not go; we would only be a burden to you.” Although Absalom urged him, he still refused to go but gave him his blessing.

26 Then Absalom said, “If not, please let my brother Amnon come with us.”

The king asked him, “Why should he go with you?” 27 But Absalom urged him, so he sent with him Amnon and the rest of the king’s sons.

28 Absalom ordered his men, “Listen! When Amnon is in high spirits from drinking wine and I say to you, ‘Strike Amnon down,’ then kill him. Don’t be afraid. Haven’t I given you this order? Be strong and brave.” 29 So Absalom’s men did to Amnon what Absalom had ordered. Then all the king’s sons got up, mounted their mules and fled.

30 While they were on their way, the report came to David: “Absalom has struck down all the king’s sons; not one of them is left.” 31 The king stood up, tore his clothes and lay down on the ground; and all his attendants stood by with their clothes torn.

32 But Jonadab son of Shimeah, David’s brother, said, “My lord should not think that they killed all the princes; only Amnon is dead. This has been Absalom’s express intention ever since the day Amnon raped his sister Tamar. 33 My lord the king should not be concerned about the report that all the king’s sons are dead. Only Amnon is dead.”

34 Meanwhile, Absalom had fled.

Now the man standing watch looked up and saw many people on the road west of him, coming down the side of the hill. The watchman went and told the king, “I see men in the direction of Horonaim, on the side of the hill.”

35 Jonadab said to the king, “See, the king’s sons have come; it has happened just as your servant said.”

36 As he finished speaking, the king’s sons came in, wailing loudly. The king, too, and all his attendants wept very bitterly.

37 Absalom fled and went to Talmai son of Ammihud, the king of Geshur. But King David mourned many days for his son.

38 After Absalom fled and went to Geshur, he stayed there three years. 39 And King David longed to go to Absalom, for he was consoled concerning Amnon’s death.



Let's look at the incident described in the Bible.

No, my brother!” she said to him. “Don’t force me! Such a thing should not be done in Israel! Don’t do this wicked thing. 13 What about me? Where could I get rid of my disgrace? And what about you? You would be like one of the wicked fools in Israel. Please speak to the king; he will not keep me from being married to you.” 14 But he refused to listen to her, and since he was stronger than she, he raped her.

15 Then Amnon hated her with intense hatred. In fact, he hated her more than he had loved her. Amnon said to her, “Get up and get out!”

16 “No!” she said to him. “Sending me away would be a greater wrong than what you have already done to me.”

But he refused to listen to her. 17 He called his personal servant and said, “Get this woman out of my sight and bolt the door after her.” 18 So his servant put her out and bolted the door after her. She was wearing an ornate robe, for this was the kind of garment the virgin daughters of the king wore. 19 Tamar put ashes on her head and tore the ornate robe she was wearing. She put her hands on her head and went away, weeping aloud as she went.


DON'T DO THIS WICKED THING. SUCH A THING SHOULD NOT BE DONE IN ISRAEL.

It is clear from this text that what Amnon did was EVIL. It happened. But the Bible does NOT APPROVE of what he did. It's telling the story to teach us something. Learning about the wicked deeds of other people should teach us to NOT do these harmful wicked things and to look at the painful and devastating consequences of evil.

An innocent woman was raped, disgraced and shamed, then thrown out. Horrible. Disgusting.

Tamar's brother Absalom was enraged and killed Amnon.

Don't mistake recording facts with endorsing the evils that are reported.

You wrote statistics about child abuse, how children are harmed. Does that prove you support child abuse? No, your reporting the facts of child abuse and statistics you found does not prove you support child abuse.

What DOES prove you support child abuse is that you support, protect, uphold, promote a religion whose belief system includes forcibly marrying little girls against their will, to be raped by adult men who traumatize and harm them physically, mentally, emotionally and a belief system that includes forcing little girls down with many hands while they scream and cry and flail, and adult hands forcing her legs open to cut off her private parts with a razor blade. This is torture. This is excruciatingly painful. This will prevent her from ever experiencing sexual pleasure in her life. Islam DOES promote abuse and torture and rape of children. This is factual, and supported with evidence both from eyewitnesses, videos of it happening, testimony from doctors/gynecologists who see these women as patients in "Western" countries like UK and USA, and from Islamic texts that prescribe it as a necessary thing for being a good Muslim, calling the chopping off of a girl's genitals with a euphemistic and inaccurate term "circumcision" (which in males is the removal of a small piece of skin, has health benefits for the man, and does not impede sexual pleasure at all).

If I did "female circumcision" to my child, I would go to jail, and possibly be executed by people angry at the injustice and torture of an innocent little girl.

Why does my white child deserve more protection than any other child? Why shouldn't ALL children be equally protected from having body parts removed without their consent, from being raped, from being tortured, from being forced into marriage with an adult?

I believe ALL children should be protected.

I do not think "culture" or "religion" should be any excuse to torture children.

It's wrong.

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Re: WOMEN'S RIGHTS and FEMINISM
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2017, 02:19:12 PM »
DOES THE BIBLE PROMOTE PORNOGRAPHY, SEXUAL IMMORALITY, AND OBJECTIFYING WOMEN?

Then you have pornography that is being depicted in the Bible.  Ezekiel Chapter 23 "Whoredoms of the 2 Sisters", Ezekiel Chapter 16 "Jerusalem, the Insatiable Whore" to name a few.  The more people read this Bible, the more they become programmed to believe that porn is acceptable.

Jesus said in Matthew 5:28

But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

And "You shall not commit adultery" is God's law to protect people and families.

The Bible absolutely does not promote adultery or porn use or casual sex.

You are RIGHT in recognizing that United States of America (and Canada - I'm actually Canadian, but I identify as and America-loving American) the nation is FILLED with evil, wickedness, corruption, sin.

This is not BECAUSE of Christianity or because they follow the teachings of Christ, but because AMERICA has rejected God! Most Americans are NOT Christians. Even people that call themselves "Christian" are often people who do not read the Bible, do not worship God in church, do not know or care what the Bible teaches, and do not show any interest in even trying to follow its teachings. When I was in public school, in a class of about 25 students, I would often be the only Christian in my class, or at least the only Christian who was willing to tell others I was a Christian. It's not popular anymore around here. You get quickly labelled with all kinds of nonsense labels that are not based on truth or reason. There is a lot of hatred of Christians and persecution is being pushed into law (ie. saying that homosexuality is a sin is to be criminalized as "hate speech").

America has turned its back on God. There are so many people in power who are actively trying to get God out of everything, out of schools, out of the courtroom, out of public discourse, in favor of the great hoax of atheistic evolution which teaches that the world came about by chance, and that all this design magically appeared by unknown mechanisms (since NO mechanism exists which can account for the appearance of NEW information in the genetic code, only a scrambling of existing information), beginning with one unknown, unscientific, religiously-believed SELF-REPLICATING MOLECULE (that doesn't exist, but Richard Dawkins wants to believe in it anyways), not because of science, but because of a desire to do evil without judgement. People are religiously devoted to the lie of evolution, not because of science, but because they are rabidly aggressive in trying to remove God from the equation so they can follow their lusts.

All evidence that does not fit the theory of evolution is hidden.

There is AMPLE evidence that does not fit the theory.

A little off-topic, I suppose, but it is all related and connected. The way we behave comes out of what we believe.

If a person believes that we are just random, meaningless, purposeless, accidental particles in motion (as the false teaching of evolution asserts), then there is no right and wrong. There can't be. How could there be?

It's a completely incoherent, unreasonable worldview, to believe that racism, sexism, Christians, destroying the planet, bullying, judging, speaking your mind, violence, oppression, lying, hate, or ANYTHING is actually, factually undeniably BAD or WRONG, if there is no absolute truth and if we are just particles in motion, following the laws of physics.

How are there even laws of physics? How are there scientific laws? How is there order in the universe? The teaching of evolution cannot account for these things.

The fact is that most people throughout all of history have believed in some kind of supreme being/god/creator. Atheists are the minority, and it IS a religion, and it's a religion that can never form a coherent worldview.

Even Dawkins talks about good and evil (ie. the "evil" of the Bible and Christian values), all while promoting the idea that we are all just random particles in motion with no meaning, purpose, goal, or reason. It does not make sense for good or evil to exist, since they are outside of the realm of the physical. To call something good or bad implies that there is actually something more than the physical, since the physical cannot account for "good" or "evil".

So, Darwin proves that he actually believes in God, but just hates him (as the always-true, completely reliable and trustworthy Bible teaches):

Romans 1:18-32

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

John 3:16-20

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.

John 15:18-19

18 If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.


The topic that led to all of this was my topic addressing casual sex (which Tora has advertised that he practices and believes in), because I believe it is very harmful to society as a whole and to individuals, and leave a trail of devastation in its wake. That was where Tora brought up Islam and which led to me researching the teachings of Islam and learning a great many things I did not previously know, including that female genital mutilation is prescribed by Muhammad and a requirement to be a good Muslim. This one fact alone is, in my mind, enough of a reason to scrap EVERYTHING this man taught.

Sexual immorality is rampant in USA, that is true. People today laugh at the idea of waiting until marriage to have sex.

It strikes me as ironic that Islam teaches the importance of women being "pure" and "virgin" to the extent that their sexual organs are cut off, usually in childhood, and their vaginas are sewn shut so they can't be entered, but a self-proclaimed Muslim (ie. Tora) is taking away the purity of women and promoting that behavior of using women for casual sex and then throwing them away.

I see no problems with having casual sex.

 It seems like a contradiction. So either Tora is not a real Muslim, or real Muslims are hypocrites who promote sexual purity to the point of sewing up girls' vaginas by force and keeping women locked in houses...but only for women...which isn't going to work out too well because Muslims also are against homosexuality, so the sex would have to be with women, and then they are destroying sexual purity by themselves being sexually promiscuous.

Hypocrisy.
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Re: WOMEN'S RIGHTS and FEMINISM
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2017, 02:30:14 PM »
EZEKIEL 23 AND SEXUAL IMMORALITY

Then you have pornography that is being depicted in the Bible.  Ezekiel Chapter 23 "Whoredoms of the 2 Sisters", Ezekiel Chapter 16 "Jerusalem, the Insatiable Whore" to name a few.  The more people read this Bible, the more they become programmed to believe that porn is acceptable.

Ezekiel 23 describes how God's people had turned away from Him to commit adultery against God and He uses the picture of women being whores and harlots and being unfaithful, which God also calls adultery and does not condone.

Again, it is telling a historical account of how people acted with each other and acted towards God, which God is calling sin, and wrong, and saying He will judge wickedness.

Ezekiel 23:45-48

45 But righteous judges will sentence them to the punishment of women who commit adultery and shed blood, because they are adulterous and blood is on their hands.
46 “This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Bring a mob against them and give them over to terror and plunder. 47 The mob will stone them and cut them down with their swords; they will kill their sons and daughters and burn down their houses.

48 “So I will put an end to lewdness in the land, that all women may take warning and not imitate you. 49 You will suffer the penalty for your lewdness and bear the consequences of your sins of idolatry. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign Lord.”


God is absolutely NOT approving of adultery or bloodshed against innocents or the evils that were happening in the land. God is declaring His righteous judgement against evil deeds.

To say that Ezekiel 23 is promoting the use of pornography is ludicrous. Completely the opposite is true. God is calling people to repent of their evil deeds.
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Re: WOMEN'S RIGHTS and FEMINISM
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2017, 02:39:42 PM »
DRUNKENNESS

There are 11 million drunkards in America and 44 million heavy drinkers. And Jimmy Swaggart says he sees no difference between the two. That means 55 million, he sees all of them to be drunkards.

What did this?  The Bible.  In his very first miracle, Jesus turned water into wine (John 2:7-10) and since then, wine has flowed like water in Christendom.  There's no stopping it now.  And it's the same W-I-N-E that Lot drank and had sex with his own daughters according to the Bible.

The Bible does not approve of drunkenness either.

Wine is a gift and can be enjoyed in moderation, but drinking excessively to drunkenness is not approved.

1 Peter 4:3

3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry.

1 Timothy 5:23

23 Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.

Ecclesiastes 9:7

7 Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for God has already approved what you do.

Proverbs 20:1

Wine is a mocker and beer a brawler;
    whoever is led astray by them is not wise.

Romans 13:13

13 Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy.

Proverbs 31:4-5

It is not for kings, Lemuel—
    it is not for kings to drink wine,
    not for rulers to crave beer,
5
lest they drink and forget what has been decreed,
    and deprive all the oppressed of their rights.

Galatians 5:19-21

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Drinking in moderation is fine. Drinking excessively, which is often combined with sexual immorality, is sin.
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Re: WOMEN'S RIGHTS and FEMINISM
« Reply #44 on: December 14, 2017, 09:46:34 AM »
@BabyShark

Why does God have to go out of his way to relate to mankind such filthy and dirty stories in such detail in the Bible?  The kind of immorality that happens in America is a direct consequence of what you Christians are reading in your Bible.

The Bible gives us a beautiful test with regard to the 'inspired' words of God.  The Bible says:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" [2 Timothy 3:16]

If the Bible is the word of God, it should prove one of these 4 points.  Any revelation coming from God should serve some purpose; it is not for people's entertainment.  There are lessons to be learnt from the inspired verses of the Bible.  And I agree.

Let's now apply this test to some particular verses of the Bible:

"Sometime later, Samson went to Gaza, saw a prostitute there, and went in to have sex with her. " [Judges 16:1]

So, Samson goes to Gaza, and saw a prostitute there and had sex with her.  FULL STOP.  There is not a single redeeming word that follows.  Now let's see how this fits into the test I gave above:

1) Doctrine - is that your teaching?  That when you go to a certain place and see a harlot, you have sex with her?
2) Reproof - was there any reproof given by God that He will punish Samson and put him in hell?
3) Correction - did God correct him in any way?  This guy, Samson, is instead portrayed as a hero!
4) Instruction in righteousness - not a single instruction is given.

Everyone will agree that you can't fit this verse anywhere.  And if you can't, it falls under pornography.

Let's have a look at another verse:

"While he was living there, Reuben had intercourse with Bilhah, his father’s concubine, and Jacob soon heard about it." [Genesis 35:22]

Note: Concubine and Wife are synonymous terms in the Bible (refer to Genesis 25:1 and 1 Chronocles 1:32 with regard to "Keturah").

So, Reuben had sex with his father's (Jacob's) wife and Jacob heard about it.  Then what?  Nothing.  FULL STOP.  NO MORE CONTEXT.

Jacob didn't react at all.  He didn't reprimand his son in the least.  He didn't even give him a slap!  So what is the moral?  It teaches you that INCEST IS CONDONED IN THE BIBLE.


Another example of how incest is glorified in the Bible is in Genesis Chapter 38.  You read about Judah, the father of the Jewish race.  He went to Timnath to shear his sheep.  On the way, he sees a woman sitting by the way side.  Thinking she's a prostitute (not knowing that it was actually his daughter-in-law), he comes up to and says:

"ALL RIGHT, HOW MUCH DO YOU CHARGE?" &

"She said what will you give me?" (To have sex with me).

"He answered, I WILL SEND YOU A YOUNG GOAT FROM MY FLOCK.

"She said, "All right, if you will give me something to keep as a pledge until you send the goat.

". . . He gave them (the pledges) to her. Then had INTERCOURSE, and she became pregnant. " [Genesis 38:15-18]


Out of this incestuous relationship between a father-in-law and his daughter-in-law, twins were born, who were destined to become the great-grand-fathers of Jesus Christ - see Matthew 1:3

"And Judas begat Phares and Zarah of Thamar ..."





Imagine, children of INCEST being glorified in a book of God.  What is the moral?