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Question for U8t3ior2d2c3polastjedi.... 947  26

Death Knight Posts: 3019 Karma: +70/-2 retired, be in music section *********

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Re: Question for U8t3ior2d2c3polastjedi....
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2018, 12:23:54 AM »
kemco
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Re: Question for U8t3ior2d2c3polastjedi....
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2018, 12:45:48 PM »
let us see after how many battles of 9 ogres vs 9 ogres will the shield upgrade have paid itself off.

first let's convert wood into gold. I do not have the numbers of wood and gold gathering speeds (at fortress phase of the game) therefore I cannot give exact factor - I used to have these numbers but I have lost my excel files. Let us go with an educated guess of factor of 2.2.

(900 + 500x2.2) / (550 + 70x2.2)
<=> (900 + 1100) / (550+154)
<=> 2000/704 = 2,840909090909091

So after 3 ogre battles of 9 vs 9 ogres your lvl 2 shield upgrade will have paid itself off.

Of course this is a very complicated topic and you need to balance your decisions in relation to every circumstance regarding your individual unique game (e.g.1: does your opponent have lvl 7 ogres or lvl 6 ogres, or e.g.2: can you yourself afford to get a temple of the damned plus 1-3 death knights plus the upgrades death and decay & haste).

Hey Sepi, I didn't look closely at your math to try to figure out your formula, but does it take in to account that every point of damage dealt above lethal damage is irreverent?  I'm thinking that might be a key factor in how it might play out.  The hp of an ogre and the average damage dealt might just work out to ogres generally killing each other with the same number of hits, and level 7 ogres just generally "overkill" level 6 ogres by a bit more.

If not, maybe it would be interesting to look at this as how many hits it takes a level 6 ogre to kill a level 7 ogre, vs a level 7 ogre to kill a level 6 ogre, figure out the distribution, and compute the gains/losses that way.
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Re: Question for U8t3ior2d2c3polastjedi....
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2018, 01:04:30 PM »
if you have one or two ogres die first then you have less ogres dealing damage than they do and the imbalance accelerates and your men get swamped and your units die and you lose the game.
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Re: Question for U8t3ior2d2c3polastjedi....
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2018, 03:34:17 PM »
let us see after how many battles of 9 ogres vs 9 ogres will the shield upgrade have paid itself off.

first let's convert wood into gold. I do not have the numbers of wood and gold gathering speeds (at fortress phase of the game) therefore I cannot give exact factor - I used to have these numbers but I have lost my excel files. Let us go with an educated guess of factor of 2.2.

(900 + 500x2.2) / (550 + 70x2.2)
<=> (900 + 1100) / (550+154)
<=> 2000/704 = 2,840909090909091

So after 3 ogre battles of 9 vs 9 ogres your lvl 2 shield upgrade will have paid itself off.

Of course this is a very complicated topic and you need to balance your decisions in relation to every circumstance regarding your individual unique game (e.g.1: does your opponent have lvl 7 ogres or lvl 6 ogres, or e.g.2: can you yourself afford to get a temple of the damned plus 1-3 death knights plus the upgrades death and decay & haste).

Hey Sepi, I didn't look closely at your math to try to figure out your formula, but does it take in to account that every point of damage dealt above lethal damage is irreverent?  I'm thinking that might be a key factor in how it might play out.  The hp of an ogre and the average damage dealt might just work out to ogres generally killing each other with the same number of hits, and level 7 ogres just generally "overkill" level 6 ogres by a bit more.

If not, maybe it would be interesting to look at this as how many hits it takes a level 6 ogre to kill a level 7 ogre, vs a level 7 ogre to kill a level 6 ogre, figure out the distribution, and compute the gains/losses that way.

there are a lot of other factors,  lvl attack, position, how many ogres will change target in fight(if ogre is changing his target, he will watch his "new" opponent and he is miss one hit, while ogre which didnt change opponent will hit him)


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Re: Question for U8t3ior2d2c3polastjedi....
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2018, 01:55:18 AM »
Hey Sepi, I didn't look closely at your math to try to figure out your formula, but does it take in to account that every point of damage dealt above lethal damage is irreverent?  I'm thinking that might be a key factor in how it might play out.  The hp of an ogre and the average damage dealt might just work out to ogres generally killing each other with the same number of hits, and level 7 ogres just generally "overkill" level 6 ogres by a bit more.

If not, maybe it would be interesting to look at this as how many hits it takes a level 6 ogre to kill a level 7 ogre, vs a level 7 ogre to kill a level 6 ogre, figure out the distribution, and compute the gains/losses that way.

Great question. It took me a while to figure out a formula for this but I was able to abstract a method for brute forcing the "overkill" damage points for both situations 6vs7 & 7vs6. I'm very excited for this computation, I'll return with my math later (there will be a wall of text, but its nothing complicated).
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Re: Question for U8t3ior2d2c3polastjedi....
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2018, 04:36:01 AM »
* Lambchops looks at his feet, whistles, then looks out the window for a while, says nothing, and wanders away....  :blank:
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Re: Question for U8t3ior2d2c3polastjedi....
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2018, 08:38:11 AM »
i was going to show all the combinations of damage an ogre does but it seems that there will be something like 250 combinations in total and i do not feel like attaining such a deep understanding of this topic to start generating algorithmic solutions for this.

To answer your original question whether or not my numbers take into account the extra damage being irrelevant, the answer is: yes it does. now go find out yourself how it does it.
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Re: Question for U8t3ior2d2c3polastjedi....
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2018, 06:34:48 PM »
The easy solution to all of this is to use double click lust hacks
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Re: Question for U8t3ior2d2c3polastjedi....
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2018, 06:35:13 PM »
Win 99% of ogre wars
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Re: Question for U8t3ior2d2c3polastjedi....
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2018, 06:50:35 PM »
Lol Tk "double click lust hacks" will save you like half a second total and your ogres will probably still die to lusties before you even notice there's a battle. 
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Re: Question for U8t3ior2d2c3polastjedi....
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2018, 06:54:10 PM »
I think I usually upgrade 2nd shield before 2nd sword 😞
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Re: Question for U8t3ior2d2c3polastjedi....
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2018, 10:53:39 PM »
* Lambchops enjoys the view despite having to crane his neck to see past the enormous elephant in the room