War2.ru Slogan
News: If your graphics are broken you can fix with the new ddraw version.
** Read how to install it here **


Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
Welcome to the forums! We're glad to have you here! :) You can register your account here, then feel free to introduce yourself in the Server.War2.ru board & let us know who you are on the server.

Anybody experienced in sound-recording? War2 music quality question 4051  25

Administrator Ogre Posts: 1045 Karma: +102/-9 *****

iL

  • Administrator
  • Ogre
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1045
    • View Profile
*

iL

Anybody experienced in sound-recording? War2 music quality question
« on: February 10, 2015, 03:29:10 AM »
* midi.zip (194.26 kB - downloaded 0 times.)
Same in WAV: 190Mb
That difference kills me...
I want to get the most perfect quality music for war2.

Does anybody know what is the source of this war2 soundtracks midi music? Is it a lossy repack from wav source or w/e?

My next idea for music: to distribute war2 with mid-format music and mid2wav converter. It will convert midi music 2 wav format and repack it into mpq archive.
Looks like the best way to keep it compatible with war2, reduce the installer size and have music in war2.

The main doubt is quailty loss while converting.

My ear for music is terrible, i never discerned good quality from bad, i also have speaker system cost $5 and don't need better.
That's why i need help in measuring the sound/music quality in war2.
We should definitely get war2 music with the best quality in midi and then lossless repack it into war2 during installation.
Ogre Mage Posts: 2305 Karma: +94/-97 ********

Equinox

  • Ogre Mage
  • ********
  • *
  • Posts: 2305
    • View Profile
Re: Anybody experienced in sound-recording? War2 music quality question
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2015, 05:01:00 AM »
Midi is useless for WAR2, midi is the pure source of a sound or a total composition.

Midi is not even a sound, midi is only a kind of signals for a compositions, it's like the note of a composition.

It's usefull if i want to open an instrumental in share parts into a audio software for producer.

So i can have that instrumental in share parts like the drums, the piano, the violins etc, etc, it's mostly for dj or producer who want to make a mix of a sound or take independant parts of a composition.

I dont see why you want to use midi into war2 untill war2 have his own reader of midi and that sound to play the midi signals, and i really dont thing it's the case.

The only way you can save space is by finding a way to use mp3 with war2, if you cant the only second option is too compress your war2 combat into a zip file so people will save time on the DL.

PS: Also, quality is not a probleme, the quality of sound if pretty good even for now in 2015, dont forget blizzard use real orchestral and alot of high producing materials to do this game..

Your not gonna get better quality for the original sound of that game..

Trying to get better quality will mean to add plug in on your basic sound and will get bigger on the final save, and since we need to use wav, your wav gonna be the same or even higher.

The only thing you can do to give a new dimension to this game, its to create a new patch with new music, new special effect etc etc, it mean, do something totally new.
Administrator Ogre Posts: 1045 Karma: +102/-9 *****

iL

  • Administrator
  • Ogre
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1045
    • View Profile
*

iL

Re: Anybody experienced in sound-recording? War2 music quality question
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2015, 08:32:05 AM »
I see, just also read about what midi is.
Good thing is midi as signals for compositions is not lossy, so it's possible to get perfect sound.

Another thing i find out is there were some sound cards or w/e hardware to recode midi to audio (like mp3 or cda).
There should be also some kind of software solutions for converting midi to sound. Not sure if software solution are worse or not.

As i know, war2bne doesn't support midi music, old war2 only did. I remember all these sound&music hardware detection before game starting...
At least, i've never seen midi inside mpq files and playing music is being stored as wav. So i think midi is not supported by war2bne.

So my idea is to include that 190 kb midi files and some kind of software to get wav from midi. Just googled and got several projects (most likely GUI, but that should be something working in batch mode also).
I hope that will receive much less than 190 MB and also allow to get wav not worse than original wav.
There are no limits for size for result wav-files making during installation because user each can select the music size he wants to get.

Not sure about mp3, war2 doesn't support it natively and it's also a lossy format. I think that's possible to distribute mp3 instead of midi and convert it to wav while installing, but we will loss some quality because of mp3 stage then.
Ogre Mage Posts: 2305 Karma: +94/-97 ********

Equinox

  • Ogre Mage
  • ********
  • *
  • Posts: 2305
    • View Profile
Re: Anybody experienced in sound-recording? War2 music quality question
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2015, 08:49:47 AM »
I see, just also read about what midi is.
Good thing is midi as signals for compositions is not lossy, so it's possible to get perfect sound.

Another thing i find out is there were some sound cards or w/e hardware to recode midi to audio (like mp3 or cda).
There should be also some kind of software solutions for converting midi to sound. Not sure if software solution are worse or not.

As i know, war2bne doesn't support midi music, old war2 only did. I remember all these sound&music hardware detection before game starting...
At least, i've never seen midi inside mpq files and playing music is being stored as wav. So i think midi is not supported by war2bne.

So my idea is to include that 190 kb midi files and some kind of software to get wav from midi. Just googled and got several projects (most likely GUI, but that should be something working in batch mode also).
I hope that will receive much less than 190 MB and also allow to get wav not worse than original wav.
There are no limits for size for result wav-files making during installation because user each can select the music size he wants to get.

Not sure about mp3, war2 doesn't support it natively and it's also a lossy format. I think that's possible to distribute mp3 instead of midi and convert it to wav while installing, but we will loss some quality because of mp3 stage then.

In the best world you dont want a better quality, you just want to keep the best quality possible with all this convertion.

But the thing is, there no way to keep the same quality if your planning to convert it..

Wave is the pure sound without convertion, thats why the file is so loud.

But like any format, when the convertion happen, it mean compression, and there no way to dont lose quality, and its even worst from a game of 2000.

There some new format where you dont lose alot of quality and still can have a low format size.

But i dont think war2 gonna use it if they dont use mp3... Mp3 is pretty bad but still can do something good with a 96khz bitrate.

I like the idea you have about the midi to wav convertion after download..

But i dont think it's gonna work because what are you gonna convert into wav??? a signal?? and your signal gonna play what? Midi is only a signal to play Notes... If you dont have the sound your not gonna ear nothing. Your plan is great, but your wave gonna be empty.

The right thing you want to do is to link your every midi signal into your wave sound bank... or your mp3 sound bank.. or your something sound bank..

But you cant convert a signals into a free sound from nowhere lol
Ogre Mage Posts: 2305 Karma: +94/-97 ********

Equinox

  • Ogre Mage
  • ********
  • *
  • Posts: 2305
    • View Profile
Re: Anybody experienced in sound-recording? War2 music quality question
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2015, 08:59:36 AM »
Why not 2 different dowload version?

1 with music ( wav format ) biz size download.
1 without music, fast download.

Probleme resolved.
Grunt Posts: 131 Karma: +2/-0 [quote author=KaNuKs~ link=topic=2345.msg40515#msg ***

chayliss

  • Grunt
  • ***
  • *
  • Posts: 131
  • [quote author=KaNuKs~ link=topic=2345.msg40515#msg
    • View Profile
    • [quote author=KaNuKs~ link=topic=2345.msg40515#msg40515 date=1469984330] wazzup chay [/quote]
Re: Anybody experienced in sound-recording? War2 music quality question
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2015, 11:53:41 AM »
get creative....find some guys willing to PLAY the music with real instruments....don't use garbage software
Ogre Mage Posts: 2305 Karma: +94/-97 ********

Equinox

  • Ogre Mage
  • ********
  • *
  • Posts: 2305
    • View Profile
Re: Anybody experienced in sound-recording? War2 music quality question
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2015, 12:44:53 PM »
get creative....find some guys willing to PLAY the music with real instruments....don't use garbage software

There no garage band who will reproduce orchestral of war2, im sorry but you dont know about what you talk.

Doing what you want in good quality will cost 600K easily for CREATIVE composition, musicians, records, mixing, mastering.

Just be serious man.
(ง︡'-'︠)ง "Bitchin!" ®©℗™ Dragon Posts: 6061 Karma: +135/-70 "It's going to be Legen-(wait for it......)-DARY!" **********

EviL~Ryu

  • (ง︡'-'︠)ง "Bitchin!" ®©℗™
  • Dragon
  • **********
  • *
  • Posts: 6061
  • "It's going to be Legen-(wait for it......)-DARY!"
    • View Profile
    • Clan EviL Official Page
Re: Anybody experienced in sound-recording? War2 music quality question
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2015, 01:18:00 PM »
get creative....find some guys willing to PLAY the music with real instruments....don't use garbage software

There no garage band who will reproduce orchestral of war2, im sorry but you dont know about what you talk.

Doing what you want in good quality will cost 600K easily for CREATIVE composition, musicians, records, mixing, mastering.

Just be serious man.
Maybe EQ could sing for us

Sent from my Motorola DynaTAC 8000X

Sappers Posts: 991 Karma: +48/-109 ******

SmurfKinG

  • Sappers
  • ******
  • Posts: 991
    • View Profile
Re: Anybody experienced in sound-recording? War2 music quality question
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2015, 01:19:15 PM »
actually MIDI relies solely on the hardware used. both, when originally recorded and when played.

for instance, a professional $200 soundcard will play it way way way much better than the standard included soundcard from the average person.... i.e. equinox's computer.



so, overall, i think its a good idea, just find the best software with the best reviews for midi to wav and base your decision on that only, you probably don't have a pro sound card to get the most out of a midi.


Sappers Posts: 991 Karma: +48/-109 ******

SmurfKinG

  • Sappers
  • ******
  • Posts: 991
    • View Profile
Re: Anybody experienced in sound-recording? War2 music quality question
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2015, 01:23:18 PM »
get creative....find some guys willing to PLAY the music with real instruments....don't use garbage software

rofl

sure
lets do a moneybomb to pay the London Orchestre Philharmonique to do us a war2 soundtrack
sounds doable huh
:P
Ogre Mage Posts: 2305 Karma: +94/-97 ********

Equinox

  • Ogre Mage
  • ********
  • *
  • Posts: 2305
    • View Profile
Re: Anybody experienced in sound-recording? War2 music quality question
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2015, 01:36:36 PM »
actually MIDI relies solely on the hardware used. both, when originally recorded and when played.

for instance, a professional $200 soundcard will play it way way way much better than the standard included soundcard from the average person.... i.e. equinox's computer.



so, overall, i think its a good idea, just find the best software with the best reviews for midi to wav and base your decision on that only, you probably don't have a pro sound card to get the most out of a midi.




You dont know about what you talk, you can use midi from different software, the only thing is you gonna need to replace all instruments for your own one if you dont have the original one.

This is one of the major reason why midi have been created! Lol

Also, buy a soundcard will affect your independant quality, it not will affect everyone quality, this dude is a pure troll.


Administrator Ogre Posts: 1045 Karma: +102/-9 *****

iL

  • Administrator
  • Ogre
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1045
    • View Profile
*

iL

Re: Anybody experienced in sound-recording? War2 music quality question
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2015, 02:58:21 PM »
But you cant convert a signals into a free sound from nowhere lol
Hm, You thoughts make sense, but i still don't understand: i just opened that midi-file by my media player and it's playing. If it's playing, then i'm sure there should be a way to save it to wav or any other format. Well, maybe i'll try that before to release the next combat version if i have time...
Why not 2 different dowload version?

1 with music ( wav format ) biz size download.
1 without music, fast download.

Probleme resolved.
Maybe you right and i should just relax and release the new FULL combat version. Also including videos and campaign briefings. People like to download big installers. The only problem is place to host such big archives. Current VPS is not so big...
But maybe midi would be possible to use, then small version will contain music, that would be good.
Sappers Posts: 991 Karma: +48/-109 ******

SmurfKinG

  • Sappers
  • ******
  • Posts: 991
    • View Profile
Re: Anybody experienced in sound-recording? War2 music quality question
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2015, 03:45:29 PM »
this dude is a pure troll.


this is hilarious...... coming from you......

this is the roflcopter epic comment of the week.


p.s. thought you didn't care   8)


Sappers Posts: 991 Karma: +48/-109 ******

SmurfKinG

  • Sappers
  • ******
  • Posts: 991
    • View Profile
Re: Anybody experienced in sound-recording? War2 music quality question
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2015, 03:49:31 PM »
in any case,  i shouldn't even be commenting on this subject cuz i don't give 2 shits about ingame music, so my opinions on this are to be disregarded from this point on.

I have always turned off background music on all RTS games when gaming online


Ogre Mage Posts: 2305 Karma: +94/-97 ********

Equinox

  • Ogre Mage
  • ********
  • *
  • Posts: 2305
    • View Profile
Re: Anybody experienced in sound-recording? War2 music quality question
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2015, 09:14:29 PM »
But you cant convert a signals into a free sound from nowhere lol
Hm, You thoughts make sense, but i still don't understand: i just opened that midi-file by my media player and it's playing. If it's playing, then i'm sure there should be a way to save it to wav or any other format. Well, maybe i'll try that before to release the next combat version if i have time...
Why not 2 different dowload version?


Maybe your file is a GENERAL MIDI, not MIDI,  almost the same but a little bit different.

With the standart midi you need your own soundbank to allow the signal to play something.

But with general midi you dont need any soundbank because general midi have his own worldwide soundback of 128 instruments if im right, that mean every software or hardware build on a general midi mode will have the same 128 instruments, so if i create a general midi from my house and i send it to you, you will ear it if you have a software included general midi, Thats an old format people where using in ''90'' so maybe thats the case right here. The only thing is i dint know yet media player can play general midi. Can you send me that file i will told you exactly what it is.