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Poll

Do you agree with the current policy?

yes
8 (47.1%)
no
6 (35.3%)
undecided
3 (17.6%)

Total Members Voted 17

Voting closed: March 14, 2018, 07:17:40 PM

Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment 1875  87

Ogre Mage Posts: 2467 Karma: +47/-7 ********

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Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2018, 09:59:45 AM »
Might just be me but I don't ever read anything longer than a paragraph or two on forums (5-10 sentences)

My care factor is not high enough to read posts that long, and definitely not high enough to respond to a post that long.
Grunt Posts: 114 Karma: +5/-0 we r a dying breed...tolerate 1 another... ***

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Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2018, 10:01:08 AM »
im just surprise van isnt ban from the game...  ??? ;)
Ogre Mage Posts: 2117 Karma: +99/-5 The General ********

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Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2018, 10:08:07 AM »
Might just be me but I don't ever read anything longer than a paragraph or two on forums (5-10 sentences)

My care factor is not high enough to read posts that long, and definitely not high enough to respond to a post that long.

Its not just you. Babyshark is mentally ill it’s better not to respond to her. She takes arguments over the internet very seriously.
Ogre Mage Posts: 2467 Karma: +47/-7 ********

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Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2018, 10:09:38 AM »
I read the first 2 paragraphs.. I get pretty drunk sometimes but I typically don't forget what I did/said while drunk.

I have a hard time believing the claims u made.. I've fucked Around like 2 or 3 times.. But never remember doing what ur talking about
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Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2018, 10:26:35 AM »
i dont give a fuck just dont

-try to get me banned by accusing me 300 times of hacking Edit: correction: 100 times is a conservative estimate.

-try to trick me into resuming games to get me banned for ss denial

-dox my IRL, be hostile towards me for half a decade to a decade

-accuse me of creating negative yelp reviews

-get me banned from server and forums because you created false accusations against me

-help spread false rumors about me about me creating yelp reviews

-cheating against me in every way you can imagine and scientifically come up with

-use clickhack against me

-allow players to use clickhack in tournaments

-whisper me insults during tournament finals

-accuse me of things during tournament finals

-disallow me to remove bad watchers during tournament finals

-when asking for admin help disregard my request and start attacking my persona and reputation

-admin says they ban a player for breaking the rules against me while in reality telling the rule breaker to smurf for a week instead of logging on to his account

-attempt to cheat in a tournament final against me but when i have in advance been able to request and therefore enforce cheat detection methods you instead of playing me you disappear and after that actively try to invalidate my tournament victory

-lose to me in a serie and after that systematically start creating rumors about me being a hacker

-accept my challenge for a master tag serie, lose to me 1-4, then refuse to transfer your master tag to me

-lose to me in a serie, then start publicly saying how you won a serie against me


thats off the top of my head.
Peon Posts: 49 Karma: +6/-0 **

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Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2018, 10:44:08 AM »
Yes virtual world true true, yet again most online applications, games, game communities, sites,  irc chats, have terms of use.
Not all have the same level of control, but there is a reason they all have terms of use.

Terms of use is a way to build up a common ground for a community you will find in most case they do make sure that members have the best experience possible from the start by setting the minimal amount of limits that allow the most people to feel at home.

When you say you tolerate anything you are saying you don't care if your members do use your platform for expressing their racial hate and all of that crap.
What if a user uses your platform for child porn diffusion and abuse? What then so you tolerate that too? Humans are capable of being awesome beings but they also can behave very badly.

Not having terms of use is just making it super hard to build a community because it is damaging it at the same time. Think about it, every time a new user is going to look at what that one mentally retarded guy has to says in the general channel or even whispers him them there is a lot of chances that this guy will just assume we all are like this because we basically tolerate it.

This is about the fact that even if these retarded people represent less than 1% of the community, one of them that we tolerate does more damage than anything we do to help the community grow.

All I am saying is I don't care about single isolated cases here, I look at the big picture and honestly if we are to help war2.ru grow and get more players we might as well start there.
You don't build a community around hate talks, anarchy and chaos.
You've got to give people something they want to be a part of and a place they want to settle in and where they feel at home.

The best way to do that is encouraging positive attitudes and exchanges, fair play, fun and making sure that interactions cannot be too damaging having terms of use gives a nice common ground that ensure that exchanges cannot be too destructive between players and for the community as a whole.

In short if you have "Welcome" written on your door step people might feel better about getting in and talking to you than if it is something like "death to all jews and niggas" simple as that.
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Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2018, 11:13:31 AM »
Axe Thrower Posts: 394 Karma: +22/-1 ****

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Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2018, 11:49:41 AM »
Harassment

In general, social behavior on the server is dealt with at the user-level.  When encountering unwanted messages from others, a user may choose to simply not listen, use the /squelch command, use the /dnd command, or ban the offending user from their games as necessary. 

However, occasionally harassment may arise, at which point administrators will step in.  Harassment will be considered to have taken place when a user makes a routine of bothering another user across multiple gaming sessions, and does in a persistent manner such that usual responses, such as typing /squelch once time each log-in session, fail to adequately handle the issue.

When a user is committing harassment, they will be warned by administrators, and failure to correct their behavior will lead to a ban.

I feel that this is not enough :-/

Honestly if we could just get people to grow-tf-up.

If you are a racist, a classist, a misogynist, a homophobe, a biggot or have any other socially unacceptable disorder then:

  A) definately don't stream it.
  B) don't inflict it on random players ESPECIALLY newbs.
  C) preferably keep it out of chat and this forum alltogether.
  D) regardless of you own private opinion, unless you are actually at a KKK meeting, seriously consider keeping it out of all social interactions with all human beings and you may discover that you have more friends.

I think I will agree with the above statements!

I believe we need a concrete and clear policy for Harassment. The punishments do not necessary need to be heavy but we do need to draw some lines.

Lambchops is at the right direction here!

We have some usual perps in the server. A few years ago when I started, they where a reason for me to actually abandon the server, I only stayed because of people like Smeagol, Xurnt, Lordvaras, TGS, Babyshark, Kintel, Sandman, KGBAgent (which I haven't seen for a while :-/) and many others.

There are plenty of nice people in the server, much more than the nasty few that needs to be educated. The problem is the few people that harass they get to appear active and to send people away.
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Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2018, 11:52:01 AM »
doing more gets tricky as then people will all start reporting each other for flaming or w/e and admins will have to take a very active role, and will be constantly accused of playing favorites, and many people object to having these standards to begin with.  obviously we do not want van calling people the n word or babyshark talking about gay people going to hell, but it's tricky, some people would probably get mad if babyshark were banned for that, or some people would ask, well, why is she banned for that but this guy called me a fag, or this person said suck my dick, or this person raxed me and someone said i got "gayed"

that is why i support a policy where we act if the messaging is intrusive to the point that it is hard to block out and avoid, basically spammy in nature, ie the policy that tora has posted here.  that way we are not in charge of policing everything people say, and dont claim to, but also, no user can be constantly attacked in a way that theyre unable to easily mute or squelch to avoid.  so that they can still have a peaceful time playing with friends without being attacked
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Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2018, 12:03:16 PM »
This is all about drawing the lines :-)
I agree that some tolerance should exist but the points of lambchop where on the spot!

I would certainly put a rule in the following lines:

When your or someone is knowingly streaming (for example Xurnt) do not express your "hate" and do not verbally abuse.
As streaming remains online, this is easy to be verified when reported and can easily be punishable.

This also can work as a defensive measure!
PlayerX streams, when someone starts abusing, PlayerX just needs to state that is streaming and that they should remain civil. If not then the needed evidence for imposing the punishment is there.

Of course, cases with SS can also work as evidence but that is more cumbersome to impose and manage for the admins so the policy can be less direct.

A similar rule could apply for the forum.
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Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2018, 12:12:46 PM »
Why can’t the streamer just ban the person?
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Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2018, 12:45:52 PM »
Clearly because the verbal abuse started in game and not before.
Also, banning a player from 1 game is not a solution. /ignore is more or less a solution.

Many times, when I leave a game because of verbal harassment people keep send me messages.
I even had one player that logged out and logged in with a different name in order to by pass the /ignore...

This is a problem that needs to be handled by the admins.
The how is not exactly clear and I agree that we do not want to be banning people just for calling us names.
But there is a notable bulling problem in the server and we should do something about it.

I'm not expecting that we will reach a server that we will all be polite to each other... I wouldn't dare dreaming that.
Can you imagine van never bulling anyone??? Darn, that simply wouldn't be war2 anymore...

But I believe we must also draw a line to the bullies...
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Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2018, 02:07:57 PM »
Many times, when I leave a game because of verbal harassment people keep send me messages.
I even had one player that logged out and logged in with a different name in order to by pass the /ignore...

Did you use /ignore or /dnd?
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Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2018, 03:05:24 PM »
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Peon Posts: 49 Karma: +6/-0 **

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Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2018, 03:12:34 PM »
As I said it is not about one isolated case of one guy annoying a streamer or a new player it is the fact that unlike anywhere else these behaviors are tolerated.

It is quite easy to see when someone cross the line one ss and you have your nasty comment immortalized pretty much.

The thing is people are less likely to say nasty things that don't belong there if they know they can get banned for it in the first place.
Most of the time these people would never say something like that anywhere else for that exact reason.

I am a new player I log in I see heated and full of hatred racist and antisemitic talk on the general chat what do you think most people's next move is?
Its always the same with rules rules can be considered as limiting one's freedom true they also make sure that one person's action wont ruin other's experience.

Again It is about having a welcoming environment for new people.
About strengthening the community as a whole and providing an environment that is healthy for gaming and fun and where people feel safe to stay and even let their kid play.

I mean it is quite simple to do the link a lot of people came to my stream chat saying the community is horrible, I say it is time we do something about that.
Why should we tolerate a few disgusting members to have such a bad impact and draw such a nasty image of our community.

Imagine if other platforms like steam had no terms of use on their community's pages and all.

The problem is they are not just flagging themselves we all pay the price of these behaviors.
Its not about banning more people its about providing a set of rules that will eventually avoid problems to appear in the first place.

Also it is not about doing something new, Battle.net used to have terms of use.
Here is what they say on blizzard's website about harrasment:
Spoiler
Disruption / Harassment: Engage in any conduct designed or intended to disrupt or diminish the game experience for other players, or to disrupt operation of Blizzard’s Platform in any way, including the following:
Disrupting or assisting in the disruption of (i) any computer used to support the Platform or any Game environment; or (ii) any other player’s Game experience. ANY ATTEMPT BY YOU TO DISRUPT THE PLATFORM OR UNDERMINE THE LEGITIMATE OPERATION OF ANY GAME MAY BE A VIOLATION OF CRIMINAL AND CIVIL LAWS.
Harassing, griefing, abusive behavior or chat, deliberately poor teamwork intended to undermine other players’ experiences, deliberate inactivity or disconnecting, and/or any other activity which violates Blizzard’s Code of Conduct or In-Game Policies.

Here their code of conduct:
https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/42673