War2.ru Slogan
News: Watch live streams at War2TV and replays of
past streams at War2TV Reruns!


Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
Welcome to the forums! We're glad to have you here! :) You can register your account here, then feel free to introduce yourself in the Server.War2.ru board & let us know who you are on the server.

Poll

Do you agree with the current policy?

yes
8 (47.1%)
no
6 (35.3%)
undecided
3 (17.6%)

Total Members Voted 17

Voting closed: March 14, 2018, 07:17:40 PM

Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment 4218  87

Ogre Mage Posts: 2472 Karma: +109/-8 The General ********

~ToRa~

  • Ogre Mage
  • ********
  • *
  • Posts: 2472
  • The General
    • View Profile
Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #45 on: March 17, 2018, 07:35:48 PM »
Lets be honest, there are many forms of violence. And verbal violence is one that is not being handled properly.
Cheers

The poll shows the majority is happy with the current policies regarding "verbal violence."
Grunt Posts: 163 Karma: +12/-0 ***

Cel

  • Grunt
  • ***
  • *
  • Posts: 163
    • View Profile
*

Cel

Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #46 on: March 17, 2018, 08:34:20 PM »
The poll shows what it shows not more not less:

Out of around 200 players active in the community 17 took part (it represents 8.5% of the total sample).
Not to mention these players are the most active players which are still playing and are not going to be the most vulnerable or the ones that would benefit from a change in policy.
Actually they are the most likely to go against any change because so far they are the ones who survived the best with these rules.

But non the less lets look further on these results shall we, numbers can be story telling:
47% of these very engaged and unmovable veterans voted they are "happy" with the current state of things they represent an impressive 4% of the player base but not even 50% of the most resilient players that took part to the poll.

Meaning we have 3% that still cared and though it would change anything 1.5% didn't care or though it was one more useless poll.

Most importantly 91.15% did not take part.

The majority look indeed overwhelming and satisfying enough for some of us to close the debate and shut people up it appears.
I would say it looks even worse than our last presidential election that medias said was not significant and satisfying as "only 45% of the population took part" yup now with our awesome 8.5% of active players expressing themselves I would say that is some next level legitimacy.

Amazing how fast people are willing to take everything coming their way and make it look like it is more than it really is.

8 individuals that took part could be you your dad your two brothers, your 2 closest friends and two renowned and active bullies (Saying these are legit players would not really change anything given the numbers).

But I am pretty sure you would like to believe there is no bias here as they represent pretty much the global population of our server at its core especially the ones that would benefit the most from the change :thumbsup:

ps: I took 200 as the number of active members if we take the 960+ members that are registered on the forum these numbers look even better how about that: 0.083% of our forum members think things are great and should not change yay now shut the fuck up we are all happy I don't want to hear anything on that matter no more!

At this point why even make a poll at all, just make your decisions alone, say you just don't care what others think/say but don't try to make it look like your decisions are legit and widely supported to shut people up when really it looks that bad, this is just insulting.
Ogre Mage Posts: 2472 Karma: +109/-8 The General ********

~ToRa~

  • Ogre Mage
  • ********
  • *
  • Posts: 2472
  • The General
    • View Profile
Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #47 on: March 17, 2018, 11:21:14 PM »
Out of around 200 players active in the community 17 took part (it represents 8.5% of the total sample).

You are greatly exaggerating the number of players. There are around 25-50 active players with 50-100 inactive players.
It’s not unreasonable to say that the poll is an accurate assessment of what the majority of the community wants.
Ogre Posts: 1310 Karma: +149/-13 *******

XuRnT

  • Ogre
  • *******
  • *
  • Posts: 1310
    • View Profile
    • Warcraft 2 Server
Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #48 on: March 18, 2018, 12:07:03 AM »
I rather it be userbased but I think there are thousands more players then what you are counting here.
Ogre Posts: 1310 Karma: +149/-13 *******

XuRnT

  • Ogre
  • *******
  • *
  • Posts: 1310
    • View Profile
    • Warcraft 2 Server
Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #49 on: March 18, 2018, 12:12:18 AM »
Just get rid of all the rules ill give you common sense who needs to go and who dont. ;)
Grunt Posts: 163 Karma: +12/-0 ***

Cel

  • Grunt
  • ***
  • *
  • Posts: 163
    • View Profile
*

Cel

Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #50 on: March 18, 2018, 12:42:01 AM »
@~ToRa~
I am pretty sure you didn't read what I wrote up there for you to answer something like that...

Or you genuinely do not understand what the point was which is understandable since for you 47% in a 17 people week poll is a good enough sign that all is for the best the way it is and things should not be discussed anymore...

I am sorry to say it is unreasonable to say that 8 person represent that much, even if we say that we care only about the 25 persons you talk about.

I guess it is to be expected of a group of individuals that respond that badly to change, but still, saying you don't want to hear what Igognito has to say because of a 1 week poll that 17 people participated on is quite ridiculous.
Especially since it was not even 50% said that things are ok as they are and even then that would still be ridiculous...

So if you want to shut people's mouth up just don't use awfully self made numbers they simply do not back you up...
Just because you are allergic to change does not justify to shut @Igognito or anyone up when they try to find a solution to something that a significant part of your 25 remaining members say is a problem.

LOL 25 active players now that is some next level community...

Now considering your numbers:

Talk about things being perfect when you have 25 members and the few new players that you talk to all say that even though they love the game the environment is just too hostile each of these players that gave up on you represents 4% of your happy community.
13 of them represent more than half of what you have now tell me there is nothing to talk about and that everything is perfect as it is.

Accurate assessment of what you and 7 people including bullies want yes then again you are happy with your 25 members community if you want people to stay in that community and have more than 8 active members in the end maybe you should start listening to what they have to say before shutting them up because you and 7 others think there is no place for discussion...

Yet again it is not about perma-banning more people it is about giving a direction helping people to behave and stop hurting each others and ultimately the community...
Ogre Mage Posts: 2472 Karma: +109/-8 The General ********

~ToRa~

  • Ogre Mage
  • ********
  • *
  • Posts: 2472
  • The General
    • View Profile
Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #51 on: March 18, 2018, 12:49:31 AM »
^^The majority of the players don’t want people banned for trash talking. That has been the consensus for years now.
Players do want hackers to be banned which is why the SS rules are enforced.
However trash talking has never been seen as a banable offense

Your insisting that the community wants people banned for trash talking based off what?
Grunt Posts: 163 Karma: +12/-0 ***

Cel

  • Grunt
  • ***
  • *
  • Posts: 163
    • View Profile
*

Cel

Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #52 on: March 18, 2018, 01:19:57 AM »
Just get rid of all the rules ill give you common sense who needs to go and who dont. ;)
Common sense rules are pretty much what battle.net's code of conduct is all about. Just a set of global direction that pretty much give incentives it is rarely followed by bans because, when it is out there, people tend to behave and also forgive more :-)

@~ToRa~ Just stop saying majority when you talk about 25 people over all the people that gave war2.ru a chance it is just ridiculous.

Read my previous answer especially the last sentence about banning people clearly you missed something...

Read my previous answer about why I believe something is a significant issue and should at least be discussed freely and with an open mind.

Also:
players don’t want people banned for trash talking. That has been the consensus for years now.
However trash talking has never been seen as a banable offense

Given the fact that you estimate your remaining active players to be around 25-50 players I can only imagine how well it worked out for you so far.

You know the  Allegory of the cave?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave

This is what I believe is happening here.
I am not saying you should just accept everything other people say I say you should let them at least express themselves and keep an open mind.
Ogre Mage Posts: 2472 Karma: +109/-8 The General ********

~ToRa~

  • Ogre Mage
  • ********
  • *
  • Posts: 2472
  • The General
    • View Profile
Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #53 on: March 18, 2018, 01:30:41 AM »
War2ru is not battle net. Saying “battle net and other gaming platforms ban people for racism and derogatory comments towards minorities,” isn’t a good enough reason for it to be done on this gaming platform.
This poll isn’t the 1st poll in regards to harassment on the server. There have been discussions on the subject for over 10 years. It has been decided again and again the community doesn’t want more punishments handed down.
Ogre Mage Posts: 2472 Karma: +109/-8 The General ********

~ToRa~

  • Ogre Mage
  • ********
  • *
  • Posts: 2472
  • The General
    • View Profile
Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #54 on: March 18, 2018, 01:49:34 AM »
Also I would like to add the reason we have a small player base has less to do with the toxicity of the community and more to do with the learning curb of the game.
That and the fact this game is over 20 years old and has limited updates.
Grunt Posts: 163 Karma: +12/-0 ***

Cel

  • Grunt
  • ***
  • *
  • Posts: 163
    • View Profile
*

Cel

Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #55 on: March 18, 2018, 03:00:38 AM »
Now yet again my main point is for you to respect other people ideas and keep an open mind and not act like there is nothing to be said or done when people are expressing a different point of view.

-About more punishment being handed down again look up previous answers.
-About why these polls and your policy for over 10 years could be wrong look previous answers too and specifically the allegory of the cave.

More on that last point if all polls and discussions went like this I can easily see why no changes were  ever made in the past 10 years no offense here but the way you react to change proposals are pretty much self explanatory...

You believe the game is too hard to learn ok that is your point of view.
Now consider people may think differently for example:
That if that was the case maybe people would not say they would love to play if people weren't so toxic.
Or that maybe if the game was that hard that would mean we all are just geniuses to play this utterly complicated game at this unreachable level?
Look at them geniuses talking for a minute and try not to laugh at yourself for thinking that could be the case.

Now bare with me as I am going to go over what I believe:
I believe this game is the simplest strategy game ever made, both to take in hands and to enjoy at any skill levels.
That I believe is because it is the essence of a real time strategy game with no extra features and complicated mechanics just the basics plain and simple.
It is to me the definition of easy to get into and hard to master. Much easier to get into than say Starcraft 2 there is so little to learn to get started.
You say the game looks too old I say people freaking play modern games that look older and uglier than that.
And also that a lot of old games that were never updated still are being played and enjoyed by people that are not even good at them.

But all this is what I believe I could be completely wrong and because of that I accept your opinion maybe the game being old has something to do with it.
Now I am not telling you what to think and what to say I am showing you that we can have different point of views on things and respect each others opinions.

Say you are right and the game is too old then if there is nothing special about it:
-Why do we keep playing it then?
-Whether we ask people to behave or not then the player base is going to leave anyway as the game and its players are getting older?

If there is on the other hand something good and special about it:
-Then why other people wont see it and stay?
-Why people that do see it eventually leave? Do they all just get tired of the game?
-Do you think people leave because they feel they are too bad? I agree! What then makes them feel that it matters and they have to be good to enjoy the game? What are the signs we as a community give them that makes them feel they cannot casually enjoy/play the game? What can we do to try and change that so that people stick around until they are good?

If the game being old and too hard to learn is the only reason for you that people leave then there is nothing to be done the player base is going to drop in any case right?

Now if we consider for one little moment that some of us might be right saying players being toxic is one of the reasons people leave or stop playing.

Then something can be done and what do we risk really in the end to act? Like for real lets have a look at what we loose if it comes to banning someone that we would not have banned otherwise (and I mean after all warnings and all that shit):

-We should be morning some very toxic guy that is not even willing to behave a bit better to help the game not die out? Because he does not like another member?
-Was that guy that cannot just ignore/respect fellow players even worth it he was worth what exactly you enjoy being harassed and reading disgusting chat in game that much?
-If the game is dying anyway well if he is in that position it was him or the other guy maybe even silent others that just didn't take the time to say something in the forum and rather left because yeah the game is not that fresh anymore?
-How many people are we willing to give up just so that one guy can feel at home being toxic and insulting/harassing everyone else?

And this is not even considering that they could and mostly would start to behave because of the new rules.

So yeah if I am right we have little to loose and potentially a lot to win.
If I am wrong we risk loosing some very very positive beings and hours of pure fun reading general chat... Oh and yeah the game would utterly die but that as you said we can't do anything about. If there was a solution we would have found it and done it 10 years ago right, obviously these things are so easy to discuss I cannot see how we would have missed it... (:
 
:critter:
Berserker Posts: 621 Karma: +18/-3 *****

Antti_Kiviniemi

  • Berserker
  • *****
  • Posts: 621
    • View Profile
Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #56 on: March 18, 2018, 07:00:05 AM »
Edit: I think what in this post I edited out was guided by flawed logic and therefore I wish to remove its contents.
Ogre Posts: 1102 Karma: +71/-0 *******

Lambchops

  • Ogre
  • *******
  • *
  • Posts: 1102
    • View Profile
Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #57 on: March 18, 2018, 07:48:44 AM »
It's very hard to make RULES about people being assholes. Sometimes it's even appropriate for a player to say something negative to another player. There can be cases of baiting, where troublemakers deliberatly taunt another player to get them to say something 'illegal' so they can report them... etc.

... in any case such rules tend to be SUBJECTIVE anyway, which means that the admins have to adjudicate on a case by case basis anyway - which ends up being pretty much what we have already.

That being said I would like to say that:

  A) Yes there is some really toxic attitude - i believe too much
  B) I'm sure it is a contributing factor to people leaving the game - it definately makes me log off sometimes
  C) I trust that the admins actually are trying to reduce this rubbish. It is bad, and it is a problem.


.... but back in 1998 blah blah blah ...

 ...people who wre BORN in '98 are now turning 20. It's a different world and a different internet, and if I was a kid I wouldn't want to play a game and get abused by a bunch of fat old assholes.



Berserker Posts: 621 Karma: +18/-3 *****

Antti_Kiviniemi

  • Berserker
  • *****
  • Posts: 621
    • View Profile
Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #58 on: March 18, 2018, 08:43:24 AM »
It could be that some problems are not solvable by creation of rules.

And I think I was a child back in the day when I cared about the community. Now I need to put my old ideas to rest and move on. Everyone has the tools for defending themselves.

The only reason I've suffered in the past by the actions of the toxic community members has been because I've allowed it to happen.
Ogre Mage Posts: 2472 Karma: +109/-8 The General ********

~ToRa~

  • Ogre Mage
  • ********
  • *
  • Posts: 2472
  • The General
    • View Profile
Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment
« Reply #59 on: March 18, 2018, 09:26:06 AM »
Now yet again my main point is for you to respect other people ideas and keep an open mind and not act like there is nothing to be said or done when people are expressing a different point of view.

Your welcome to express your own view points on this issue. I’ll read what you have to say and respond accordingly.