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izrael=terrorist 495  68

Death Knight Posts: 3080 Karma: +57/-14 *********

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Re: izrael=terrorist
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2018, 01:07:15 PM »
make Norman Finkelstein new PM of Israel
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Re: izrael=terrorist
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2018, 01:10:58 PM »
see my previous post, if the people of the United States refused to stand for apartheid, their situation could be vastly improved.  Again you're saying if it's not likely, we should forget about it and allow massacres of protesters to take place.  Whether it's realistic or not, the protesters should not be blamed for crying out at the injustice, or for being massacred.  You should apologize.

The Israelis view them as being hostile hence why they are attcking them. Neither of us know what’s actually happening on the Gaza strip but i’ll say since the election of the Hamas government there life has deteriorated. War has been a common occurrence. The fatah government doesn’t deal with this many problems.
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Re: izrael=terrorist
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2018, 01:15:16 PM »
I mean, it could get so much better so fast if the US stopped supporting Israel in every single aggression and atrocity it commits.  the US vetoes every security council resolution that's brought to the UN.  if the US would stop backing up Israel as Israel basically behaves in a genocidal fashion, a more equitable peace could be made between the parties.  The two-state solution was quite realistic until israel continued to swiss cheese large amounts of intended palestinian land with illegal settlements, which again should be condemned adn those should be dismantled.  And heck i'd take a one-state democratic solution here.

The two state solution has been talked about for decades and decades. Clearly this approach hasn’t worked. There needs to be a new solution.
The US government will likely never stop supporting the israeli government which leaves the Palestinians and Israelis to work out a solution themselves.
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Re: izrael=terrorist
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2018, 01:21:00 PM »
They can't work out a solution themselves because there's an unequal balance of power between them, which allows Israel to continue to abuse the Palestinians while extending their land creep.

Again, forget the inevitability of this injustice and consider what's right.  Then, stand for what's right: the end of Israeli oppression of Palestinians. 

How can this be achieved?  Well, strategy is a secondary question, and you should without hesitation be on the same page of desiring justice before trying to broach strategic questions.  That shouldn't be that hard, to agree that what's happening is wrong.  (But I think Israel going too far with their psychopathy and losing American support is not altogether unrealistic, and without US support the situation would change dramatically.)

see my previous post, if the people of the United States refused to stand for apartheid, their situation could be vastly improved.  Again you're saying if it's not likely, we should forget about it and allow massacres of protesters to take place.  Whether it's realistic or not, the protesters should not be blamed for crying out at the injustice, or for being massacred.  You should apologize.

The Israelis view them as being hostile hence why they are attcking them. Neither of us know what’s actually happening on the Gaza strip but i’ll say since the election of the Hamas government there life has deteriorated. War has been a common occurrence. The fatah government doesn’t deal with this many problems.
Who cares what the Israelis view things as?  They're run by right-wing nutjobs.  They massacred 50+ and injured thousands while suffering zero injuries.  We should be able to denounce this as wrong.
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Re: izrael=terrorist
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2018, 01:27:52 PM »
But I think Israel going too far with their psychopathy and losing American support is not altogether unrealistic, and without US support the situation would change dramatically).
If your right here then in time America will cut off support themselves. Obama did have his government abstain from vetoing in the UN on human rights abuse at the end of his term.

Who cares what the Israelis view things as?  They're run by right-wing nutjobs.  They massacred 50+ and injured thousands while suffering zero injuries.  We should be able to denounce this as wrong.

It does matter how the Israelis view things because they are ones the Palestinians have to live with and negotiate with. This whole us vs them mentality doesn’t work.
The Israelis use excessive force and there citizens are fine with it. Ever wonder why that is?
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Re: izrael=terrorist
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2018, 01:29:20 PM »
Because they're bad
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Re: izrael=terrorist
« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2018, 01:30:42 PM »
Because they're bad

Common give a real answer. The world isn’t black and white. Demonization of the so called “enemies won’t solve any problems.
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Re: izrael=terrorist
« Reply #37 on: May 16, 2018, 01:34:55 PM »
Rofl, that IS real, i guess too real for you.  certain people actually do excessive harm to others, and certain ideologies actually are very bad.  To pretend otherwise is to be naive.  We must call out evil where we see it.  Should we scratch our chins and wonder why South African whites supported apartheid and why Germans supported Hitler and why european settlers were cool with genociding first nations in the americas?
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Re: izrael=terrorist
« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2018, 01:42:23 PM »
There are certain individuals in the world that are “evil” but within every group are normal people that doesn’t nesisarily agree with everything their group does.

We could break down every one of your points and see what lead to each world event. Am I interested in doing so right this minute? No.
Calling the other side “evil” won’t make the other side interested in hearing what you have to say.
Palestinians on the west bank don’t face such economic hardships and displacement as their gaza counterparts because the fatah movement is able to negotiate with the Israeli government better than the hamas government.
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Re: izrael=terrorist
« Reply #39 on: May 16, 2018, 02:20:49 PM »
fatah is israeli collaborators and really dont get shit out of it.  anyway we know who the bad guys are in this situation.  we also basically know what drives them to it, it's a supremacist ideology known as zionism.  theyre that way because they were indoctrinated that way. 

yes in some cases like pre-ww2 people became nazis in part because of the shitty situation they were in.  that was a partial cause, fine, we can recognize that, but also recognize the great evil that resulted.  in this case it's all about birthright, jewish people being told this land is their birthright, and the dehumanization within israel of palestinians, we're they're treated as subhuman which keeps the israeli population going along with it.

Relaly bad people, that if they were born/raised in other circumstances, sure maybe would not have turned out that way, but this is the situation that exists.
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Re: izrael=terrorist
« Reply #40 on: May 16, 2018, 02:32:04 PM »
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Re: izrael=terrorist
« Reply #41 on: May 16, 2018, 07:01:18 PM »
Israeli onslaught continues

It's extremely upsetting the world is so fucked up that a state can be this vile and still be supported.
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Re: izrael=terrorist
« Reply #42 on: May 17, 2018, 11:47:05 AM »
fatah is israeli collaborators and really dont get shit out of it.  anyway we know who the bad guys are in this situation.  we also basically know what drives them to it, it's a supremacist ideology known as zionism.  theyre that way because they were indoctrinated that way. 

Zionism teaches Jewish people that Israel is their birth place and that every Jewish person has a right to return. As I already said I don't believe in this ideology.
However the fact remains millions of Jews do believe this and are indoctrinated with it. Palestinians in their eyes are little more than illegal immigrants. I've had Jewish people go so far as to say Jordan is actually Palestine and all Palestinians need to be deported there.

Palestinians on the other hand are natives to the land of Israel, anyone that's not brainwashed can conclude the Palestinians have a right to the land of Israel.
Both Palestinian groups Fatah and Hamas believe that Israel has no legitimacy as a country.

Both sides are unable to come to concessions to stop the war.
Israel isn't going anywhere. They have become a legitimate country on the world stage with a robust military and economy.
However having millions of Native Palestinians makes them viewed as a "terrorist state" in the eyes of many, as evidenced by this thread. Eventually Israel will need to correct themselves and make concessions with the Palestinians.

Palestinians are unwilling to accept that the original state of Palestine is all but in the history books. The Fatah and Hamas movement won't recognize the state of Israel for fear they will lose their right to return.
Palestinians will need to accept at some point that Israel is a sovereign country now and they must now lobby for the same rights as Israeli citizens. 

Gandhi and Mandela wouldn't have approved of the tactics that Hamas uses to fight for the rights of it's citizens.
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Re: izrael=terrorist
« Reply #43 on: May 17, 2018, 12:05:29 PM »
How will Palestinians accepting Israel's right to exist get them any concessions from an Israel that just wants to continue taking?

Those guys would definitely support a protest at the illegal occupation fence, they definitely would support BDS, and so on, and those things are happening now, but people still act like all opposition is anti-semitic terrorism and that activists are falling short of some sort of whitewashed ideal of MLK, Mandela, etc that doesn't accurately represent those guys at all.

'We know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians.'
'If one has to refer to any of the parties as a terrorist state, one might refer to the Israeli government, because they are the people who are slaughtering defenseless and innocent Arabs in the occupied [Palestinian] territories, and we don’t regard that as acceptable.'
'What we know is that Israel has weapons of mass destruction. Nobody talks about that. Why should there be one standard for one country, especially because it is black, and another one for another country, Israel, that is white.'
-Nelson Mandela
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Re: izrael=terrorist
« Reply #44 on: May 17, 2018, 12:10:30 PM »
Palestinians in their eyes are little more than illegal immigrants.

lol what kind of mental gymnastics do you have to play to claim the original inhabitants are immigrants.