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RTS meets MOBA: Warcraft 2 edition 1394  2

Grunt Posts: 61 Karma: +2/-0 ***


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RTS meets MOBA: Warcraft 2 edition
« on: August 04, 2018, 11:08:57 AM »
Pudpic images: (thanks to the courtesy of mousEtopher)


tl;dr : If you start with sappers, out of 6 heroes, choose two (or three in 2v2) heroes to save, blow up the rocks and get them.
If you start with a peon, just play normally. Except you cannot upgrade to Stronghold. You cannot train cats or build towers. Oil is crucial for upgrades.
Both maps are 6 player maps, 128x128.
When hosting, choose starting resources as "Map Default". Else the game experience might not feel balanced.
Also enable "fixed start locations" and play in Top vs. Bottom format.

I like MOBA. But I like RTS as well. The idea of combining the aspects of RTS and MOBA had been on my mind for quite a while, so I've finally decided to practice this on a custom .pub that I've recently made for Warcraft 2. Obviously, this is a top vs bottom custom game map (like that archer map).

It's a 128x128 map with northern and southern fronts. There are 6 players in total (and 2 rescue passive AI's).

Out of which, Player 1 (red) and player 4 (violet) are supposed to control the "bases" of each side,
and Player 2 (Blue) and Player 3 (Green) are supposed to control the Heroes that aid Player 1,
while Player 5 (Orange) and Player 6 (Black) control the heroes that aid Player 4.
So in total, 2 players control the bases and play the part of RTS, while 4 players control the heroes and play the part of MOBA.

I've also altered the map and made a slightly different version of it, where there are 4 players controlling the bases (2v2 top vs bottom), and 2 players controlling the heroes. (Players 1 and 2 control the bases at top, while player 3 controls the heroes that is allied with top, while players 4 and 5 control the bases at bottom and player 6 controls the heroes that is allied with bottom)

How this works:
Basically I've made 6 types of heroes/rescuable units trapped behind rocks to be saved by players, using sappers. In "2 bases/4 hero controller players" version, each hero controller player has 2 sappers, so each of them can control 2 heroes at the same time. In "4 bases/2 hero controller players" version, each controller has 3 sappers, so they can control 3 of them.

The heroes are basically the guys from Tides of Darkness and Beyond the Dark Portal missions, except I've edited each of them heavily to balance things out and to make them more suitable for their respective roles.

As far as roles go, there are:
Paladins (Turalyon / Uther) : Basically healers who can ride fast. You know the default paladin abilities; healing, holy vision, exorcism... I've nerfed their damage so that they suit their roles as healers, also decreased their HP and armor. Turalyon has slightly better damage, while Uther has slightly better HP and armor.

Ogres (Chogall / Dentarg) : Buffers. They have eye of killrogg, bloodlust and Runes, so just like with healers, I've nerfed their damage and HP heavily too, so their stats are around the same with Uther and Turalyon. Dentarg has slightly better damage, while Chogall has slightly better HP and armor.

Shooters (Alleria / Zuljin) : Single target damage dealers. Buffed Alleria's piercing damage quite a bit, making her into a tank killer. Her range stays the same, I think I have buffed her HP a little too. Zuljin has the same range as catapults, so he can harrass canon towers without getting hit, but he has considerably lower damage compared to Alleria, while having slightly higher HP, he has lower armor than Alleria. The idea is: he is less suitable to engage the enemy head on while being better at laying siege (?).

Tanks (Danath / Grom Hellscream) : These guys are the ones who went through the most change. First off, they have the most HP and armor amongst all heroes, so they are tanks. They also have 2 attack range, and have the same attacking projectile as dragons/gryphons, so they are efficient at clearing off RTS guys' armies. Be careful though, they can still hurt their allies too. I've also nerfed their damage so that they aren't OP. They have exactly the same stats as each other.

Mages (Khadgar / Mage) : Debuffer/support guys. I've removed Blizzard and Polymorph (one-hit killer spell LMAO) from them so that they won't be OP and should serve their roles better, since they still got Fireball, Slow, Flameshield and Invisibility. They have the same stats as healers, except they have lower armor points.

and finally...

Death Knights (Guldan / Teron Gorefiend) : I expect that these guys would be the carriers. They are the weakest both HP and basic attack-wise. But don't forget their spells. I've included an interesting little mechanic for players who would want to play as them. You gotta decide which spells you want to use and then buy them, but you will have to choose wisely, since you cannot afford all spells, and D&D and raise dead are also more expensive than other 3 spells (haste, unholy armor, whirlwind). This might bring more variety in each match, though admittedly we all know death and decay is the way to go, since it's broken lol. You can still think of having the considerably less expensive Whirlwind instead of D&D, and still have enough money to buy one more spell.

Metagame? : Well why not. As simplistic as this all is, I can still think of one or two combinations that could go well together.
Since tanks' basic attacks are dragonflames, I think pairing them with bloodlust would go very well, making them an even more formidable wave-clearers.
Don't forget that Death Knights are the weakest, so althought very situational, paladins' exorcism might come very handy. Ironically they can also heal allies who were cast unholy armor on, so they go well with death knights too.
Paladins and ogres each have a valuable scouting skill, so they would be helpful for their RTS allies.
If you want someone to help you catch and kill an enemy hero, mages are your best bet, since they have Slow (the only means of CC in warcraft 2). They can also use flameshield as both offensively or defensively, they can deliver good area damage with fireball, they can make their allies do sneaky things with invisibility (though very situational).
Death Knights can also cast haste or unholy armor on an allied hero to help them escape.

Hero controllers, don't forget that death is permanent.

Changes on the RTS side: All RTS players start with 2100 Gold, 1050 Wood, and 0 Oil. This makes you be able to build a farm and train 1 peasant after building the Town Hall. You will also desperately need the Oil. There are map restrictions in place thanks to the special map editors. The players who are controlling the bases are not able to upgrade to Stronghold / Keep, they also cannot train catapults nor build towers. They can only train footmen, archers, peasants and the naval tech. This keeps the importance of heroes relevant to the outcome of the game. I've increased the cost of barracks humongously, so you would have to have a good economy to mass footmen and archers, and in order to do that, you would have to have good map control, and in order to have good map control, you would have to have good teamwork with your heroes.

The cost of upgrades have been cruelly increased. Most of the upgrades cost Oil now, and lots of it, except for the few. So controlling the seas at the west and east side of the map is equally as important as controlling the gold mines. There are pre-built barracks and towers on each lane, belonging to each RTS players on map, and I've multiplied the towers' HP by 4 times, their armor by 2 times, and their damage by 3 times, so it's important to keep them repaired. Some towers are not upgraded, so it's up to the players to choose which tower they want.

What about the map itself?: There are 15 gold mines in total, 7 on northern half of the map, 7 on southern side, and one supermine with unlimited gold, right in the middle, although it's hard to reach so it's expected to be an endgame target.

There is also water on both western and eastern sides of the map, with 3 oil patches on each side, although each has very little oil. There are two lanes connecting north with south, with side roads leading to naturals. Controlling the gold mines, as well as oil patches, is crucial for victory. (keep in mind that RTS players can still train all of the naval tech) The shores are framed by mountains, but there are 4 spots on each side where it's possible to unload units using a Transport. So be careful about those sneaky drops as well.

I obviously do not advice opening these maps with the default map editor, as that would undo Danath/Hellscream's firebreath attacks when you did that.

The both versions of the map are attached at the end of this post. I'm kind of eager to hear the responses to this map of mine. I would consider rebalancing stuff if need be. I hope it can attract the attention of a few people since I know that some people like to play custom games over there.
Administrator Ogre Mage Posts: 2066 Karma: +110/-110 *****


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Re: RTS meets MOBA: Warcraft 2 edition
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2018, 03:57:01 PM »
this looks great!! really cool concept & so much thought put into adjusting the unit properties, should be a lot of fun!
Grunt Posts: 61 Karma: +2/-0 ***


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Re: RTS meets MOBA: Warcraft 2 edition
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2018, 01:56:24 PM »
changelog : Rebalanced all of the heroes damages and various other things like attack and vision ranges, since they just didn't feel right for me.

Now I'll also post each one of their stats here so that everyone could see:

Vision Range: 9
Hit Points: 190
Armor: 10
Basic Damage: 11
Piercing Damage: 0

Vision Range: 6
Hit Points: 170
Armor: 8
Basic Damage: 14
Piercing Damage: 3

Vision Range: 9
Hit Points: 185
Armor: 11
Basic Damage: 13
Piercing Damage: 0

Vision Range: 6
Hit Points: 165
Armor: 9
Basic Damage: 14
Piercing Damage: 4

Vision Range: 9
Hit Points: 155
Attack Range: 6
Armor: 6
Basic Damage: 5
Piercing Damage: 24

Vision Range: 6
Hit Points: 175
Attack Range: 8
Armor: 4
Basic Damage: 8
Piercing Damage: 16

Grom Hellscream & Danath:
Vision Range: 5
Hit Points: 350
Attack Range: 2
Armor: 15
Basic Damage: 14
Piercing Damage: 2
Note: They use firebreath attacks.

Khadgar & Mage:
Vision Range: 9
Hit Points: 165
Attack Range: 5
Armor: 3
Basic Damage: 14
Piercing Damage: 3

Guldan & Teron Gorefiend:
Vision Range: 7
Hit Points: 130
Attack Range: 5
Armor: 0
Basic Damage: 11
Piercing Damage: 1


Guard Towers:
Vision Range: 9
Hit Points: 650
Attack Range: 6
Armor: 40
Basic Damage: 12
Piercing Damage: 36

Cannon Towers:
Vision Range: 9
Hit Points: 800
Attack Range: 7
Armor: 40
Basic Damage: 120
Piercing Damage: 0

Unupgraded Scout Towers' stats are still the same as in the Vanilla game, so they are pretty weak.