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what if we patched wc2 like this? 498  11

Server Admin Grunt Posts: 97 Karma: +8/-0 *****

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what if we patched wc2 like this?
« on: February 13, 2019, 03:44:25 AM »
what would you guys think if we did a simple patch to try this out for a couple weeks or even a month... remember all games are always patching an tweaking things for balance

would it be worth a try to try this ??? my suggestion is this ...
make slow mana cost 25 an runes cost 150 thats it ... i think that simple patch would balance hu an orcs... i under stand lust is still more powerful even when ogies are slowed
but it still helps a whole lot if mages could slow more ogies at a time .. and to counter it ogies could use runes an still be able to lust?? .. can we atleast test this out for a few weeks??

i want serious input only please

and when i say balanced i mean for EF cuz i seriously think on speeds faster an slower then that are already balanced but no 1 isever gonna play faster
Administrator Ogre Posts: 1332 Karma: +123/-9 *****

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Re: what if we patched wc2 like this?
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2019, 04:10:50 AM »
I don't think we need to make anything related to rebalance:
1. This game is 24 years old and the community core is also old. They know everything about current balance and use it.
2. There's no the source code of game to let us rewrite it easily. I don't think we should touch the gameplay with such limited opportunities.
3. Rebalancing requires testing in real gameplay. If we make change, we will have to do that again and again. How many updates for starcraft have been released to rebalance races? Lots. And i'm not sure they reach balance.
4. Rebalancing will split game clients to several incompatible versions. If you cast something for 25 mana and your opponent will see 26 for the same cast, the game will be disconnected. Also, half of the community will accept some kind of rebalancing, others will not. Which version will be "official"?
5. Those who play humans, are good as humans. They don't have problems playing humans. Others play orcs. Or play humans against not so good opponent.

So, my concept:
we can make any improvements around, but not touch the gameplay.
Even obvious bugs should not been touched. Let war2 be as is.
We can make some changes in loaders, menu navigation, networking, bnet chat and protocol, but not touch the gameplay.

If we need some gameplay changes, we should look into wargus project. That is really where we can make "war2 better than war2".
Sappers Posts: 919 Karma: +46/-1 ******

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Re: what if we patched wc2 like this?
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2019, 04:47:40 AM »
Why you want rebalance game while u cant make balance map??
Peon Posts: 49 Karma: +1/-0 **

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Re: what if we patched wc2 like this?
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2019, 06:09:42 AM »
lolll DC is way more balanced than garden......
Server Admin Grunt Posts: 97 Karma: +8/-0 *****

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Re: what if we patched wc2 like this?
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2019, 10:39:01 AM »
swagier just wants an easy map where he can wall in in any position i dont make maps for noobs to turtle XD
Sappers Posts: 919 Karma: +46/-1 ******

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Re: what if we patched wc2 like this?
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2019, 11:17:28 AM »
if 4 spots can, and 4 cant that mean this is no balance map since half players can half players cant,

I wouldnt say ANYTHING if players COULDNT/COULD close base in ALL SPOTS (expect little mines 30-40k)

so dont try balance game if you cant balance map

@Ring62 did i write gow is more balanced than dc?
Grunt Posts: 184 Karma: +12/-0 ***

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Re: what if we patched wc2 like this?
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2019, 12:05:49 PM »
First, honestly I am fine with the game not being balanced I do not think it has to be perfectly balanced to be fun.
Imbalances can make the game fun too it adds a challenge.

About game balancing
Spoiler
Now if we were to make any changes:
Overall if we wanted to change the balance without breaking the game of transforming it into something else increasing the mana cost of lust is a good starting point that is true.
Though 150 is a very big change I would start with something around 80 100 and if it is not enough grow up from there 125 etc... It is very well possible that 150 would be the final value.

But the idea would be to make the minimum amount of changes possible you do not want to overshoot it.

Slow however is already a good spell that does not cost too much it is used and has value to it.
I would focus on slowly changing something that is not used as much as it could like heal or exorcism and change the mana cost of that so that it has more value to it.

The end goal would be to have changed so little people coming back to the game feel like the game is the same.

Now honestly the way the game is right now is fine by me I am  having fun playing it the way it is.
The problem is that changing the mana costs means changing the game for everyone else.
We could use a second server to try up the changes and all but that is a lot of work to change something that is not that far from being perfect already and that most of us already love.

Maybe if someday blizzard makes a remaster of the game they will make these changes.

That said I am not against trying things if it is done very carefully but I can definitely agree with what IL said.
There are things that would help the game much more like having a match-making system for 1v1 as well as team games, also your clan war thing could be a good addition and what you said about adding the mini-maps in the lobby all these changes seem to have much more added value to them and are less risky to try because these changes are straight improvements for everyone. :thumbsup:

About map balancing
Spoiler
About map balancing especially for team games I slightly disagree I believe spots can have different layouts some may close and some may not depending on what other advantages they have or do not have.

What may make a map interesting can also be the clever use of these imbalances giving players different options depending on where they are and where their enemies are.

This is the reason why I love playing Four Seasons so much in team games, because depending on where I am and where my enemies are, my options are completely different not less viable just different.
That is what makes this map so fun to spectate too, you get to see land rushes, water, lust, mages, air all of that in one game.

And honestly in the last version of the map I do not have any favorite starting position.

But yes for 1v1 games, having a 8 player map where not all spots can be closed is a disadvantage just because there are so many free spots to go to at the start for both players.
Peon Posts: 49 Karma: +1/-0 **

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Re: what if we patched wc2 like this?
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2019, 12:49:32 PM »
loll Swagier u always play garden means u like it.. so means u like unbalanced maps , so he made dc an unbalanced map for you.Some players play garden too cause they like unbalanced maps so he took this in consideration and made a map like DC np.
Sappers Posts: 919 Karma: +46/-1 ******

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Re: what if we patched wc2 like this?
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2019, 02:06:56 PM »
this map is made by blizzard not by a player and yes I like it, if i didnt like it i wouldnt play and since i prefer play 1x1 why I should play dc not gow??

"But yes for 1v1 games, having a 8 player map where not all spots can be closed is a disadvantage just because there are so many free spots to go to at the start for both players."

THIS

few balance "new" map

http://web.archive.org/web/20021225141857/http://w3.one.net:80/~billw/KPUD/kpudland.html
Grunt Posts: 184 Karma: +12/-0 ***

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Re: what if we patched wc2 like this?
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2019, 02:31:42 PM »
Yeah the amount of players playing can really have a big impact on how the map is played and balanced :-)

In many ways GOW becomes more balanced as the number of playing players decreases.
DC on the other hand becomes more balanced as that number increases.

GOW still remains the king of all land maps for me though, because of the variety it features.
You just get so much replayability out of it. :thumbsup:
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Re: what if we patched wc2 like this?
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2019, 08:12:40 PM »
patch it already talking 3 months, dugs seems to not have a problem with a winning record vs orcs
Grunt Posts: 73 Karma: +8/-2 ***

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Re: what if we patched wc2 like this?
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2019, 11:27:46 PM »
The game doesnt need to be patched it's still so popular considering its age for a reason, bloodlust makes warcraft 2 fun, it adds an extra element for the better player to win due to being faster to lust, not getting caught unguarded, rather then straight more numbers wins vs lesser numbers. Someone with extremely good lust/ogre control can  kill 9 lusted ogres with 4 using buildings as well with a lesser player that doesnt control or pay attention correctly. It speeds up the game to a comfortable rate, if you ever watched alot of human vs human 1v1s, the games take forever because it takes to long to break wallins with knights or kill expos off.

Warcraft 2 is what it is for its postives and faults, patching the game with make it not warcraft 2 to me anymore.