Going to try and shorten this as it seems there are only a few things we disagree on now.
I disagree with you and I figured my lazy example would be enough for you to understand the point I was trying to get across, so I will reattempt. Right now, seeing a health bar mandates 1 (per unit) or multiple clicks. A click is an action (like P or peons), an action alters game play by freeing up time/physical clicks and thoughts for other actions.
So, hypothetically, because I'm not doing these things anymore (with the hypothetical health bar mod) I keep my choke more (1 of many examples, feel free to ask for more). If I do it the way we do it now, maybe my choke breaks because a grunt was weak and I missed it. Now, he gets in my base, and now I have to do a whole mess of other things to defend, which snowball the rest of the game. That is a HUGE effect on game play that you are failing to realize.
No, not failing to realize it at all. I just think it's silly that you, as the commander of forces, could ask 3 grunts about their physical condition and get the precise answer for all 3, but not know which answer relates to which grunt. What do they write their answers on scraps of paper then put them in a hat before handing them back to you? This seems to be obviously the result of a very early (and hastily written) RTS interface, and an issue that has been corrected in every successive game in the genre.
However that is a valid argument that the proposed health bars plugin will have an effect, if not an argument that the effect is a negative one, or even a "HUGE" one, but thank you for your input.
Do you have an argument as to why fixing that glitch is a negative apart from "don't change anything"?
This is not simply just a visual. You are widely underestimating the feature. They are related, yes at different extremes, but they are indeed related and the fact that you don't realize what 1 click can do in this game is a bit concerning. Seconds/split seconds are very important. Like you said, it doesn't matter (Health Bars mod not there) but there is your better example to prove my point and to demonstrate your ignorance on this matter.
This also explains my other "silly example"s that you referred to and how they are, while more extreme, absolutely relevant. I am against (most) game play changing mods. That is not some big umbrella you are making it out to be, it's simple, game play, things that directly effect the game while you play...... Example: Not pre game mods, or watcher mods, or chat room, end game stats, map view, etc mods.
No, your silly examples were:
Hey, guys, while we are at it, it is very difficult to make peons early game consistently while microing and gaying, can we please make a mod for auto peons? I would also like auto peon management, the correct peons on wood and gold at all times please. Wouldn't mind auto attack after X grunts at a rax. I mean, we already have the double click hack we somehow allow (still baffled), why not made a mod so I can lust all 9 in one second? Also, a dk radar so I know when a dk is approaching my base so I can pull peons. Auto pull too, why not. That would be much easier. Oh, that would just destroy the game.
They remain silly examples, because they have absolutely nothing to do with the subject under discussion
Let me explain the chop situation to you since you don't understand the value of the chop even though you like to condescendingly try to explain it to me.
Evidence: "IMO The only time the chop bars plugin can actually be a real advantage is when you want to pull a peon off lumber to build something, then you can choose the one that has been chopping the least amount of time."
Haha yes I noticed that "only" after I had posted, and immediately knew that you would bring up chopping in/out. It has been mentioned before in this discussion and of course I am aware of it. For the record it was around 2am and I had to cut some bit out to get that post under the forum limit, so I didnt proof-read it very well.
If I choose to chop out of my base. Especially early game, I absolutely count the chops in my head. This way I know when to go back and close before I get raped by grunts sitting outside my base waiting to see a chop. Seconds matter. Do I count the 51 to the exact chop? Hell no, but I look around 45ish, knowing it will be any second and that I will naturally be off count. You don't have to be super smart to count to 45.
Chopping into someones base while doing other things is another time I count. When I'm doing something or upgrading something that can be foiled by my opponents chop, I count to see if I need to cancel the building to block after he chops. Aka gays.
The fact that you don't know this also shows you that, yes, you know less game play than more experienced players. People that often beat me, are more experienced and outsmart me, naturally. I am not some pro you painted me out to be. I am just above average on GOW. Swift/U8/Shotgun/00s/so many other people could tell you and me things about the game that we have no idea about, believe me.
You win me typing "only" instead of "main". Do you seriously think I don't understand chopping into/out of bases? Really?
So how is this a radical/detrimental change to the game? Are you relying on your superior ability to count to 51 to give you some tiny edge over new players so you can own them even harder?
Here's what you don't understand because you have not tried it: You counting in your head is still an advantage (obviously). Do you think that this is simply replaced by someone repeatedly switching back to the chopping peon and checking the progress bar? "Seconds matter" - if you can keep that count in your head while doing other things then you are still in front.
"I honestly think that this very narrow focus and the arrogant "pro" attitude that goes with it has been, and continues to be, the single most detrimental thing to the health of the community as a whole. No, those people do not know the game better, that cliquey little scene is not "The Game". They do not own it any more than chop players, paintball players, the water map guys, free players or anyone else."
I hear you, I was never a GOW player until RU, I wasn't even a EF player. Until 3-4ish years ago? I hated GOW. But in this instance, your argument has no base. You're saying GOWers don't get to dictate the game, yet I'm saying, you can't ignore GOWers as they are 1/2 of your population at this point in time. It's not 2001 anymore. If you do something that effects GOWers only and not the rest of the game, you cannot in good conscience implement it without pissing off 1/2 of the community.
So you speak for half the communtiy? One of the main problems with that group is how cliquey it is. It's like a school-yard mentality with a pecking order where players cow-tow to each other for fear of provoking others into open verbal feuds that can last for years. The "voice" of that community is by and large the loudest and most aggressively obnoxious.
I have never suggested that any player should be ignored. You were suggesting that some players' opinions should carry more weight because they are gow "pros", and I am saying pffffffffff to that.
You will have to deal with your hatred for now.
hatred, condecention, bad manners and mainly outright childishness is the problem. It is bad for the community and the game. I usually deal with that ok thanks.
Quote from: Harrywangs on July 14, 2019, 04:03:40 PM
I'm simply trying to maintain the integrity of the game with my opinion. When you say "a line showing up chopping progress" and diminish it, it really does demonstrate to me that you do not actually understand/underestimate the impact it will have.
No I really do understand it, much better than you do, because you have never even tried it. Your condescension in that statement only highlights your ignorance in suggesting that just because I have not spent the last 20 years honing my reflexes and strategies around a single style of gameplay that somehow I do not understand game mechanics every bit as well as you do.
Yeah, I already told you I did. War3 example in my answer.
Your WC3 example was ambiguous, I could not discern if it related to trying a chopping progress mod or an auto-lust mod, so I ignored it as being irrellivent either way as the differences in game mechanics between WC2 and WC3 are so radically different.
Is the same person who is lecturing me on how "seconds matter" etc. really arguing that testing a feature (perticluarly one relating to spacial movement) on a different game is good enough to not even bother testing it on the game you are talking about?
You do not understand the game play as well as top GOWers. You need to realize that. I do not understand chop/paintball, I don't talk to it like I do. Humble yourself. [/b]
Hahaha I need to what?
Another arrogant gow player telling me to humble myself because I'm not a GOW pro so therefore I am inferior. THAT'S THE PROBLEM RIGHT THERE
Obviously you don't understand chop or you would not even consider lecturing me on opening a base. Do you notice me suggesting that you should "humble yourself"? Serously, just think about how arrogant and ignorant you sound.
Here's what you need to do if you want me to pay the slightest attention to you:
First try the mod so you are not arguing from a position of ignorance, then formulate logical argument as to why it not only has an effect, but has a negative
effect on gameplay/balance - given that all players get the same mod - or at least the option to have it.