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MACRO HACKS IN KOTR FOUND AND ANALYZED 1992  107

Ogre Mage Posts: 1567 Karma: +157/-14 ********

XuRnT

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Re: MACRO HACKS IN KOTR FOUND AND ANALYZED
« Reply #60 on: August 19, 2019, 08:06:06 PM »
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Lambchops

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Re: MACRO HACKS IN KOTR FOUND AND ANALYZED
« Reply #61 on: August 19, 2019, 11:14:08 PM »
well let's catch one before we move on to the other. why aren't you talking about your ogres building simultaneously, which they clearly are?

Shouldn't that question be "why aren't you talking about your ogres building simultaneously vs. another player who's ogres are also building simultaneously?" ???

Not participating in my own witch hunt.

Also, i'm just going to release new combat in a few days with your plugin system, but how that will look like after things happened?
Not sure what i should do now.

I made the plugin framework to support improvements to the game that the community wanted. It does that. If I was intent on hacking for my own purposes you would never know it existed and I would be on the top of the ladder YELLING IN ALL CAPS, but I think everyone here knows I am not interested in trying to pretend I am a great player.

You can use it or don't that is your choice.

Another problem is what to do with such marco hacks for future.

For starters I would definitly declare purpose made automation programs such as AutoIt and AHK etc. illegal hacks. Not to mention stealthbot ffs and whatever else people have been using... idk I don't use them. There is no need to ever run these things to play the game. If someone needs a bot they can use a bot account.

you can clearly see these 2 rax - and only these 2 rax - glitch together at 2:35, 2:50, 3:20, 3:35, 4:35, 6:55, 7:15, 9:50 and 10:05
To read it where? In insight replay? Not sure if insight will show glitches, i'd say no...
If you can show a video or w/e with detailed explanation and prooves against Claw in your game, maybe that would partially explain your position against him, though that's still not acceptable behavior i think...

Just look at the insight recording and keep watching those 2 rax. At all those times they build ogres simultainiouslty - at some other times they also build them very close together.

Then look at the other rax. There is 24 barracks in rows. All the rest of them build ogres much further apart or randomly but only those 2 rax do this, its at least 15 times over a 8 minute period, and 9 of those times the ogres actually build literally simultainiously.

Having this happen even once is extremely suspicious.

Happens 15 times in 8 minutes from only 2 barracks out of 24 ... this is not human player input it is a macro. There is no question about it.


I have to go to work, will see if anyone has decided to get real about this when I get home.
Grunt Posts: 114 Karma: +11/-2 ***

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Re: MACRO HACKS IN KOTR FOUND AND ANALYZED
« Reply #62 on: August 19, 2019, 11:24:48 PM »
You are trying to deflect your newbie heart out. You are busted bro. Admin can you please alter his  name to lamechops. Thanks
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Re: MACRO HACKS IN KOTR FOUND AND ANALYZED
« Reply #63 on: August 20, 2019, 01:04:28 AM »
I won almost every tour in 2017

Win almost every tourneys without anti hack, yeah good one.


You can search it on youtube/twitch, rules was about warvideo but i had stream its enough

I dont cares about your streaming, i repeat my question and answer to it.

Did you ever win a tourney with anti hack?

Yes or no?


I see you are just stupid

Also you are mad, cause we got private games, probably noone likes you, thats sad
Ogre Mage Posts: 1635 Karma: +60/-36 ********

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Re: MACRO HACKS IN KOTR FOUND AND ANALYZED
« Reply #64 on: August 20, 2019, 01:59:22 AM »
I don't consider lambchops accusing you to be equivalent to fabricating evidence/framing.  I think the usernames etc he provided of yours were real, and it was just his dellam conclusion/accusation that was wrong.  I do think he's caught hacking here :(

He's always been a really decent guy, helpful when you have a problem, he's even helped me with a non-War2 related thing or two, so I'm disappointed in this stuff happening lately :(

Any name he provided that I didn't tell him were me already was false, I told him i was Prasievivec, mrlemonade, mrlemonade[iS], which were my only names i played with, I've not shied away from telling admins to reveal my akas on these forums either, and I don't care if you reveal them right now in this thread even as I  1) really don't have much names, 2) don't care if they are revealed 3) probably forgot the password for them all anyway except the main 3 i play on, 4) some of those names he claimed were me continue to play even after i stopped playing.


He kept repeatedly showing games of people after the first 2 games that are not me to try convince people im hacking. He also ignored any evidence that would clear my name easily. Like you know, his friend that actually doxed the guy and remote accessed my pc? The same doxed information you saw and I could give you remote access to confirm at any time you being one of the head admins and all? Then him trying to feign ignorance about him being doxed when he was told about it literally before he made the thread about me, and even linked the thread in his first post telling him about the dox? He had all the evidence to easily clear me of the accusation before the thread even started and continued with a frame attempt to distract people from the fact that he was hacking.  Theres also a difference between submitting evidence to be examined, and intentionally posting false information knowing they are 2 seperate people already, just to cause trouble.

Again, only the first 2 games in that thread he showed were me (the mrlemonade[iS] games) after I told him who I was (even though he claimed he knew all my akas already so why withhold this information from admins for over 2 years if that were true), anyone else was dellam or snake, which given lambchops just got busted for hacking, and snakes atrocious win/loss in 1v1, lambchops is more likely to be snake then I am, given I can actually beat most of those players he loses to, some whilst even giving them shared vision.

By making the accusation that someone is dellam you are by default saying this player needs to be permanently banned due to dellams actions. It's a frame attempt to try get me permanently banned given he started posting false evidence after the first 2 games. Which even then, those 2 games of me can't even be seen as evidence, they were just games of names I told him I was, playing games at the exact timeframe I told him i stopped playing the game until I started getting the freeze issues. It's not like he caught me lying and they were played 6 months ago rather then 2 years, They're just random games he showed of me for no reason before he started posting false evidence using the games that followed, Including games that took place after I stopped playing.  Again, you're welcome to reveal my akas at any point to confirm
Grunt Posts: 60 Karma: +9/-0 ***

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Re: MACRO HACKS IN KOTR FOUND AND ANALYZED
« Reply #65 on: August 20, 2019, 05:06:19 AM »
So, there are a lot of macros from Lambchops during whole the game. For example from the game starting:


You can see that he selected Unit #1523 and move them manually. But later trigger push the next queue of commands:
Select TH, train peon, select previous unit (to continue manual control).
This macro is used during all the first part of the game. Later macros take control under barracks and grunts/ogres. At the end of game Lambchop wasn't playing at all. But more than 100 commands per net cycle were autogenerated (>1000 APM).

I can suppose that Lambchops was trying to test some very quick and dirty implementation of game AI. Because he supported his scripts at the begging of game (when you need to build the base properly) and was very passive at the end of game.


BUT. If this was AI test, why did he not mention about this? Why did he blame Claw? Maybe I missed something in replay, but I cannot see his cheats. Just chaotic manual building, like this:

As you can see, Donald_Trump selects barracks and pushes "O" hotkey several times as usual player. 2-4 commands per cycle.


Very strange.
Grunt Posts: 201 Karma: +4/-0 ***

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Re: MACRO HACKS IN KOTR FOUND AND ANALYZED
« Reply #66 on: August 20, 2019, 06:04:04 AM »
So, there are a lot of macros from Lambchops during whole the game. For example from the game starting:


You can see that he selected Unit #1523 and move them manually. But later trigger push the next queue of commands:
Select TH, train peon, select previous unit (to continue manual control).
This macro is used during all the first part of the game. Later macros take control under barracks and grunts/ogres. At the end of game Lambchop wasn't playing at all. But more than 100 commands per net cycle were autogenerated (>1000 APM).

I can suppose that Lambchops was trying to test some very quick and dirty implementation of game AI. Because he supported his scripts at the begging of game (when you need to build the base properly) and was very passive at the end of game.


BUT. If this was AI test, why did he not mention about this? Why did he blame Claw? Maybe I missed something in replay, but I cannot see his cheats. Just chaotic manual building, like this:

As you can see, Donald_Trump selects barracks and pushes "O" hotkey several times as usual player. 2-4 commands per cycle.


Very strange.


HOLY SHIT YOU HAVE AN ACTION TRACKER? THAT IS AWESOME!

DONALD TRUMP HACKS DONT SHOW BECAUSE I AM A LEGIT FAIR PLAYER THAT ALSO REPORTED HIS HACKS

HIS STRATEGY IS TO IGNORE ALL THE QUESTIONS, CONVINCE THE CROWD THAT I HACKED AS WELL, THEN SAY IT WAS JUSTIFIED OR A TEST. IM SURE THERE WILL ALSO BE A NOMENCLATURE PHILOSOPHY INVOLVED (NOT A MACRO, BUT AN AI FRAMEWORK YADDA YADDA)

SO HE EVEN HACKED EARLY? JESUS CHRIST, IS HE CAPABLE OF PLAYING A SINGLE GAME WITHOUT HACKS THEN? I THOUGHT IT WAS ONLY OGGER PRODUCTION AND MOVEMENT. ITS GETTING... SAD
Grunt Posts: 201 Karma: +4/-0 ***

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Re: MACRO HACKS IN KOTR FOUND AND ANALYZED
« Reply #67 on: August 20, 2019, 06:21:12 AM »
AS FOR ANY "AI TEST" ARGUMENTS, I ASKED FOR A FAIR 1V3, ASKED LAMB TO NOT USE ANY SCRIPT BEFORE THE GAME AND DURING THE GAME (WHEN I SAW HIS MACROS WITH NAKED EYE). DROID CAN VOUCH...

INSTEAD HE MOCKED ME AND POSTED THE SS OF 2V2 VICTORY IN THE THREAD I LINKED IN INITIAL POST. I WAS TOTALLY HONEST IN THAT THREAD AND NOW MY REACTION PROBABLY MAKES SENSE TO EVERYONE... THING IS - NEITHER I NOR LAMB KNEW THAT DROID RECORDED THAT GAME WITH INSIGHT. WHAT A PLOT TWIST IT WAS
Administrator Ogre Posts: 1394 Karma: +135/-9 *****

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Re: MACRO HACKS IN KOTR FOUND AND ANALYZED
« Reply #68 on: August 20, 2019, 07:08:51 AM »
Wow! Action tracker is really a great thing!

Not sure its results should be published here though, as that is a tool to detect such macro cheaters.

Publishing such logs can let hackers learn to bypass cheat detection. So i'd prefer to keep it secret.

Also would be interesting to scan the existing database of replays for cheaters, who knows who could be caught that way?..
Peon Posts: 12 Karma: +1/-0 **

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Re: MACRO HACKS IN KOTR FOUND AND ANALYZED
« Reply #69 on: August 20, 2019, 07:38:03 AM »
Jak się masz?

I can see this topic is kinda popular, no wonder why.

I always respected Lambchops, and I've never caught someone hacking, except Dellam years ago maybe.
But in that game CLAW asked Lambchops really nice not to use any scripts. Asked once or twice. Lamb only laughed and said nothing. He also refused to warvid his games.

First time I watched this replay, I noticed massive ogre production at the same time. Watched this on 1/3 slowest speed also. All ogres was trained simultaneously.
So it's not a state-of-the-art AI if even Russian noob like me noticed something was wrong. He could at least use random timing for an imitation of quick pianist's fingers.


Here are two screenshots from my warvid to help u get the context of the game.



CLAW WHY WERE U SO MUCH FASTER THAN LAMBCHOPS THEN?
ANSWER THAT YOU KURWA HACKA.


WE ALSO HAVE ANOTHER WITNESS CALLED ((ORC)).

And also I use Insight 1.04 with an autorecord script (thx to IL), and I couldn't watch the whole replay there.
It says "Corrupt replay file" after 2:19. Insight 1.05 RC1 doesn't have this problem.
I think something is launched at 2:19, something that 1.04 doesn't like & crashes.
CORRUPT REPLAY


I don't want Lambchops to be banned.
Me & CLAW are agreed for $15 forfeit I think. I'll send my PayPal later.

Dziękuję.
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Re: MACRO HACKS IN KOTR FOUND AND ANALYZED
« Reply #70 on: August 20, 2019, 07:49:41 AM »
Wow! Action tracker is really a great thing!

Not sure its results should be published here though, as that is a tool to detect such macro cheaters.

Publishing such logs can let hackers learn to bypass cheat detection. So i'd prefer to keep it secret.

Also would be interesting to scan the existing database of replays for cheaters, who knows who could be caught that way?..

Yea,thats good idea to check macros, cheats
Ogre Posts: 1474 Karma: +80/-1 *******

Lambchops

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Re: MACRO HACKS IN KOTR FOUND AND ANALYZED
« Reply #71 on: August 20, 2019, 07:50:44 AM »
At the end of game Lambchop wasn't playing at all.

Huh?

But more than 100 commands per net cycle were autogenerated (>1000 APM).

If you say so. I know the observer APM meter packs it in at 3 figures because I tested it once, but I never run that hack anyway.

I can suppose that Lambchops was trying to test some very quick and dirty implementation of game AI. Because he supported his scripts at the begging of game (when you need to build the base properly) and was very passive at the end of game.

wtf?

BUT. If this was AI test, why did he not mention about this?

It was absolutely not an AI test.
There was nothing even remotely resembling AI in the entire game (from either of us). I was playing KOTR vs a hacker. I knew it, and he knew it.

Actually what was really funny was a few weeks ago when he was claiming to be legit playing MAD we played 2 games and he paused the game for about 2 seconds in the first game then paused it again in the second game at exactly the same moment for the same amount of time. I lmao at him for recording a pause in his macro bacause it was very obvious and then he refused a third game and logged. I'm sure he recorded a fresh MAD @purple macro before he started posting his "I am the champion" thread a while later.


Why did he blame Claw? Maybe I missed something in replay, but I cannot see his cheats.

A blind monkey on acid can see that he is building simultainious ogres out of the same 2 barracks all game. That is because he is repeating the same macro.

Just chaotic manual building, like this:

As you can see, Donald_Trump selects barracks and pushes "O" hotkey several times as usual player. 2-4 commands per cycle.
Very strange.

Firstly, what are these numbers? I'm guessing it's packet dump data of some type. You'll note I deliberately did not mention these in my macro hacking description ;)

I've never messed with packet spying/modding/injecting for the game, although I understand there were some oldschool hacks that worked that way.

Anyway if you are going to use this meagre list of numbers as some kind of proof of anything how about you add some column headings and post a useful amount of data that proves something?

Got to say your analysis is way off base so far, all you have managed to acertain is "wow that's a big stack of commands".

Why don't you do some analysis on the timing and order of barracks that claw selects and presses O on? I'm quite sure you will see the repeating pattern (if you want to).


I really don't care that much about any of this as long as everyone knows that nazi hacker has outed himself - I have never claimed to be a great player, only a programmer.

... and ffs since when does anyone even think he doesn't hack? He was well known as the biggest hacker on the server 10 years ago, I don't even think he denied it back then.

Ogre Posts: 1474 Karma: +80/-1 *******

Lambchops

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Re: MACRO HACKS IN KOTR FOUND AND ANALYZED
« Reply #72 on: August 20, 2019, 08:14:50 AM »
So it's not a state-of-the-art AI if even Russian noob like me noticed something was wrong. He could at least use random timing for an imitation of quick pianist's fingers.

pfff of course not. I am not interested in making hacks to cheat and pretend I am playing.

And also I use Insight 1.04 with an autorecord script (thx to IL), and I couldn't watch the whole replay there.
It says "Corrupt replay file" after 2:19. Insight 1.05 RC1 doesn't have this problem.
I think something is launched at 2:19, something that 1.04 doesn't like & crashes.

Great. Please post the corrupt replay. That's right about the time when his build macro finishes and he starts using his ogre macro. I sure as hell didn't change anything.


Me & CLAW are agreed for $15 forfeit I think. I'll send my PayPal later.

LOL claw can kiss my ass. If you want to say "Me & CLAW" then you can send each other $15 if you want. I don't respond to extortion.

Also would be interesting to scan the existing database of replays for cheaters, who knows who could be caught that way?..
Yea,thats good idea to check macros, cheats

Definitely, but you have to learn to analyze it first. There's no point if you don't even know what you are looking for. If you can't see claw's macros in this game you have no clue.
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Re: MACRO HACKS IN KOTR FOUND AND ANALYZED
« Reply #73 on: August 20, 2019, 08:43:01 AM »
And also I use Insight 1.04 with an autorecord script (thx to IL), and I couldn't watch the whole replay there.
It says "Corrupt replay file" after 2:19. Insight 1.05 RC1 doesn't have this problem.
I don't recommend to use 1.04 anymore, 1.05 is better. Though 1.05 doesn't support autorecord as 1.04 do.
As an idea: 1.04 can't handle warlatency switching, 1.05 can.
Maybe you should manually disable warlatency before starting the replay? Use war2ppatcher for that. Though i don't remember 1.04 says replay is broken when warlat is in wrong state...
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Lambchops

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Re: MACRO HACKS IN KOTR FOUND AND ANALYZED
« Reply #74 on: August 20, 2019, 09:29:23 AM »
I don't consider lambchops accusing you to be equivalent to fabricating evidence/framing.  I think the usernames etc he provided of yours were real, and it was just his dellam conclusion/accusation that was wrong.  I do think he's caught hacking here :(

He's always been a really decent guy, helpful when you have a problem, he's even helped me with a non-War2 related thing or two, so I'm disappointed in this stuff happening lately :(

Thanks mate, I appreciate you saying it.

Please note I'm not at all embarrassed about this post, Claw is a cheating hacker who deserves all he gets. I'm pretty sure anyone who has been paying attention will know what a two faced liar and cheat he is by now. Typing in ALL CAPS won't change that. I have never claimed to be a good player.