Author Topic: paladins AOE passive auto heal  (Read 17940 times)

Offline Nox

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Re: paladins AOE passive auto heal
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2020, 12:53:48 PM »
Who want that Cel? ur idol hacker u8?

I would love that, let's get it guys, best update of 2020 with the chop add on!
Dont worry you will still suck

Keep hacking newbe.
Mr.120apm aka U8! Best player of the world losing 4v3 against Phillip5256.

Offline Szwagier

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Re: paladins AOE passive auto heal
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2020, 03:41:58 PM »
no need to hacks vs newbs like you who still after 20 years dont know how works tower bug  :sob:
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Equinox - the dumbest person in this game, do not argue with an idiot, because he will bring you to his level and overcome with experience

Offline Cel

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Re: paladins AOE passive auto heal
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2020, 05:20:03 PM »
For the record no one said it is a bad update, what Mistral has done is wonderful and a 100% good for the game.
What we are saying is it should stay what it is right now a trigger system for custom maps not a general fix.
Meaning if you want to have a gow where this is active you can make your own gow map but you can still play the classic version of GOW without the balance changes or any change for that matter :P

Offline Incos

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Re: paladins AOE passive auto heal
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2020, 08:29:19 AM »
For the record no one said it is a bad update, what Mistral has done is wonderful and a 100% good for the game.
What we are saying is it should stay what it is right now a trigger system for custom maps not a general fix.
Meaning if you want to have a gow where this is active you can make your own gow map but you can still play the classic version of GOW without the balance changes or any change for that matter :P

Hehe, too stuck in the past. Blizzard never balanced Warcraft 2 and even they admitted that you got the chance for auto heal- the thing we all have been asking for years and you say nahh I’d rather keep bloodlust much more op. Silly thinking- and it’s sad when people with limited minds are in the control of RU. One reason I kept hearing why people don’t play warcraft 2 is “orcs op, boring”.  You got a good chance to grow the community.   You’re better off putting it to a vote  than having one guy control the scene.  I’m looking at you cel 👀. 
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Offline Winchester

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Re: paladins AOE passive auto heal
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2020, 12:08:46 PM »
alot of the spells need some tweaking in some way as most of them are hardly even used by players.  Whether its mana cost, gold cost, research time or something else. No one is gonna have their nostalgia ruined by some number tweaking to a spell they ain't seen used in 5+ years which they probably didn't even know the gold & mana cost of anyway due to how much of an afterthought it is to them. Even if it was bloodlust getting touched in a patch, and say its duration was lowered by 1.5 seconds, do you think any returning players would actually even notice that?

Offline Cel

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Re: paladins AOE passive auto heal
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2020, 05:44:01 PM »
alot of the spells need some tweaking in some way as most of them are hardly even used by players.  Whether its mana cost, gold cost, research time or something else. No one is gonna have their nostalgia ruined by some number tweaking to a spell they ain't seen used in 5+ years which they probably didn't even know the gold & mana cost of anyway due to how much of an afterthought it is to them. Even if it was bloodlust getting touched in a patch, and say its duration was lowered by 1.5 seconds, do you think any returning players would actually even notice that?

That is exactly my point number tweaking is totally fine and should be the way to balance things out if ever, not changing the way the game plays or the mechanics.
Auto heal is unnecessary frankly but I guess it is cool for custom games and scenarios to have these things.
All I am saying is if you increase lust's mana cost and decrease heal mana cost as well as decrease human spells researching costs etc you can balance the game without changing the way it plays overall. While also making all the spells in the game that were not before, worth using  :slight_smile:

Also making sure players have the choice to use or not the balance changes in their game is very important imo that is what I really like abou that new triggers system it is voluntary you can make a balanced version of GOW and host that instead but players that want to keep playing the original version of the game can still do that it is a non destructive approach and I really like that!

Offline FlyDude

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Re: paladins AOE passive auto heal
« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2020, 07:48:54 PM »

Surprised that the balancing focus hasn't been on making standard play speed more playable for more players. EF and F are standard playspeeds now, but if first buildings could be dropped faster with play then returning to the standard play speed, this would help the Human/Orc balance (as everyone is already aware).

All these additions of auto inputs are cool, and no doubt interesting in development, but unlikely to be widely adopted; whereas, helping the game return to its purer concepts might result in greater adoption.

GL, either way.

Offline Vendar

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Re: paladins AOE passive auto heal
« Reply #37 on: November 09, 2020, 02:25:29 PM »
Imo auto-healing is must have if you want to balance War2. Without it Bloodlust is too op.

Also it could be awesome if this game would get total rebalance mod, with new and unique units for both races. The idea is to keep original game immerse but recreate gameplay with some unique units and balance.
Why it could be awesome? Well, I'm a War2 fan, but not a blind one :D and I fully understand why Age of Empires 1-3, Starcraft 1-2, Spellforce and many many other RTS games are much better than War1/War2.
First reason: Bloodlust is op so Orcs > Humans.
Second: races doesn't have unique units so every match looks almost same.

Quick fix for first issue: play with numbers and give Paladins auto-healing.
Fix for second issue: add 2 unique units for each race and a lot playing with numbers and testing.

After that game will be more fun :) Starcrafts are the gold standard, the role model that every great RTS should follow and in SCs units are completly unique per race, they counter each other and that makes the game interesting even after 20 years after premiere.

That's only my opinion and my dreams about "making Warcraft 2 great again" :D I had my chance years ago, but I didn't find anyone to work with me so my mod failed.

GL with your plans!
« Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 04:55:47 AM by Vendar »

Offline Cel

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Re: paladins AOE passive auto heal
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2020, 07:09:05 AM »
Auto-heal is definitely not a must have nope...
If lust is too powerfull then the problem is Lust, and you can make it fair by increasing it's mana cost to avoid it being always up while also decreasing it's value added per mana spent.
In the same way Heal would be a perfectly fine spell if it actually healed. and did not cost 6 mana points per hit point healed.

Start by making the value in damage dealt/healed per mana spent of heal and exorcism actually align with all the other spells in the game and then we can talk about changing/adapting/butchering the mechanics of the game or the way it plays.

Stop wanting to make warcraft 2 another game please...
You do not need different races in a strategy game for it to be interesting I would actually argue the opposite, Chess and Go has been played for ages and feature exactly the same pawns on both sides war2 is not very far from that actually.

Warcraft 2's unique beauty relies on its simplicity: every unit in in war2 is useful, serves a purpose and is used in multiplayer at every level of play. In almost every single game that reaches late game you see them all. Just because you have a core unit type (ogres/grunts or simple pawns in chess) does not mean you dont need everything you have around them to win.

If you were to add 2 units you have to find them a role to play and give them a strategical value that other units do not already cover, you have to make sure that their existence does not impair or render useless another preexisting unit. Or do you just want to add stuff for the sake of it? ( like in AOE where units litterally replace other units to a point that you see more than half the roaster being just ignored in multiplayer competitive games )
On the same note Starcraft and Wc3 have about the same number of units per race than war2, except that in one game you will probably never see all of them needed and used at once like you do in war2... There is beauty in that simplicity in design every piece at your disposal is truly valuable and allow you to manage the board in its own way.

War2 is not one of these new pseudo-strategical games that keep coming (Iron harvest etc...) that were designed with the looks and the cool story in mind almost uniquely...
War2 is a strategy game first and foremost. You could remove the races entirely from war2 and put simple chess pawns in place of the units and the game would still be interesting to play and watch... And yes, even with a spell like bloodlust being OP because ogres still die to drakes and dks or canon towers and they cant go over water alone either.
If you cannot see that, I feel sorry for you for what you have been missing on all these years, but maybe it is time to open your eyes...

Point is, I totally support Mistral and IL for the way they are dealing with this:

It is a very good and cool thing that players will be able to make their own scenarios and maps with all these things, but we do not have to butcher the game for everyone else based on one person's opinion or tastes...  :wc2:
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 07:15:50 AM by Cel »

Offline Incos

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Re: paladins AOE passive auto heal
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2020, 09:42:04 AM »
I think auto heal would make a lot of players return.
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Offline Nox

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Re: paladins AOE passive auto heal
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2020, 12:58:36 PM »
Auto-heal is definitely not a must have nope...
If lust is too powerfull then the problem is Lust, and you can make it fair by increasing it's mana cost to avoid it being always up while also decreasing it's value added per mana spent.
In the same way Heal would be a perfectly fine spell if it actually healed. and did not cost 6 mana points per hit point healed.

Start by making the value in damage dealt/healed per mana spent of heal and exorcism actually align with all the other spells in the game and then we can talk about changing/adapting/butchering the mechanics of the game or the way it plays.

Stop wanting to make warcraft 2 another game please...
You do not need different races in a strategy game for it to be interesting I would actually argue the opposite, Chess and Go has been played for ages and feature exactly the same pawns on both sides war2 is not very far from that actually.

Warcraft 2's unique beauty relies on its simplicity: every unit in in war2 is useful, serves a purpose and is used in multiplayer at every level of play. In almost every single game that reaches late game you see them all. Just because you have a core unit type (ogres/grunts or simple pawns in chess) does not mean you dont need everything you have around them to win.

If you were to add 2 units you have to find them a role to play and give them a strategical value that other units do not already cover, you have to make sure that their existence does not impair or render useless another preexisting unit. Or do you just want to add stuff for the sake of it? ( like in AOE where units litterally replace other units to a point that you see more than half the roaster being just ignored in multiplayer competitive games )
On the same note Starcraft and Wc3 have about the same number of units per race than war2, except that in one game you will probably never see all of them needed and used at once like you do in war2... There is beauty in that simplicity in design every piece at your disposal is truly valuable and allow you to manage the board in its own way.

War2 is not one of these new pseudo-strategical games that keep coming (Iron harvest etc...) that were designed with the looks and the cool story in mind almost uniquely...
War2 is a strategy game first and foremost. You could remove the races entirely from war2 and put simple chess pawns in place of the units and the game would still be interesting to play and watch... And yes, even with a spell like bloodlust being OP because ogres still die to drakes and dks or canon towers and they cant go over water alone either.
If you cannot see that, I feel sorry for you for what you have been missing on all these years, but maybe it is time to open your eyes...

Point is, I totally support Mistral and IL for the way they are dealing with this:

It is a very good and cool thing that players will be able to make their own scenarios and maps with all these things, but we do not have to butcher the game for everyone else based on one person's opinion or tastes...  :wc2:

Increase mana cost so you gonna fucked up 25 years of perfect timing that everyone have learn.

Pls go back to hacks peoples and dont give your advice, you barely can beat a tier 6 player.

Auto Heal is a great idea, we probably better try it for a season in the next patch and if it's not good we can remove it next season, but the try definitly worth it.

Dont listen Cel, this dude cant even dual, how the fuck he has the right to give is advice hahaha
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 01:02:07 PM by Equinox »
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Offline Cel

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Re: paladins AOE passive auto heal
« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2020, 08:06:54 PM »
Says the guy who never played humans once in his life, and who thinks everyone is a hacker as soon as one tries to defend or at least question his accusations on people that litterally spent hours doing a program for him. :sweat:

About the timings:
Spoiler
Increasing the mana cost of bloodlust wont change its power thus it wont change the burst you get when you reach it and it wont change the speed at which you unlock it, you will still be able to break through concrete with the exact same powerspike as before so timings are mostly fine.

But it will have a small cooldown on it while your ogres resplenish their mana meaning your timings though still exactly the same, wont be a permanent braindead spam lust gameplay anymore. You thus may have to use your brain in late game and probably there will be more room for runes than there already is. It may hurt a little at first to have to use your head Equinox but we all have to start somewhere...

So not only are you an ungrateful paranoiac but now you want to break the game for everyone else? Feeling like forcing people to adopt your ideas much?
Once this patch is out you can always try making your own retarded version of the game with it if you want to. Host it, you will see who joins and really likes your changes...

Besides... You of all people probably wouldn't be able to enjoy such a massive patch in the first place anyways...

This RUSSIAN :omg: patch probably will be another dangerous and malicious VIRUS detected HACK :omg: :rofl:.

So before we talk changes and patches you probably should get your paranoia in check or at least find a real way to actually double check your paranoiac instincts. Because what is the point of asking people to do things you cant enjoy anyways...

Oh and once you do learn to doublecheck, you probably owe Lesnik an appology... While it is easy to throw the :poo: you gotta be ready to eat it all back up if you were wrong  :kissing_heart:.
Oh and a thank you once in a while would be nice too, for people that actually do things you wouldn't have the brain cells to do yourself.

So much bad parenting around the world it is very sad...

Offline Winchester

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Re: paladins AOE passive auto heal
« Reply #42 on: November 11, 2020, 10:05:14 PM »
try it for a season in the next patch and if it's not good we can remove it next season

This. Having it on a trial period would not hurt the game. if everybody favors it, keep, if everybody dislikes, remove. And is probably how we should handle all balance patches

Heroes of the storm introduced weather events into their game a few months ago that would cause things to happen when the weather change occured, like gaining a random lightning shield, invisibility or starcraft shield type buff. They asked for feedback on it and if it was positive they would keep it, it was mostly negative feedback, and it got removed before the season was over.

It wouldn't hurt the health of the game to add it in for a trial period and then remove it if its unfavored or deemed too op. If anything it gets the community more involved by wanting to play humans for a couple games so they can tell you if they want to keep the change or not.

If possible, maybe even make the backup server the testing ground for any balance changes before being implemented on the main server.

Offline Cel

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Re: paladins AOE passive auto heal
« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2020, 10:28:20 PM »
You can host your games with the balance the way you want it, but dont be forcing your changes onto everyone else that just wants to play their everyday war2 game. Totally not ok if people like your ideas they will play your custom games if you have to force them well these changes probably are trash...

Also doing what you guys are talking about would force people to re-download and reinstall their whole freaking game all over again. Just look at how easily spooked Equinox is with a simple smaller program made by Lesnik how do you think he will fair with a 20 times larger file made by another russian member he knows nothing about. To be fair I dont even know why we are having this discussion in the first place that just wont happen :rofl:

Have fun making your maps/mods and all once it is out :thumbsup:

Offline Winchester

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Re: paladins AOE passive auto heal
« Reply #44 on: November 12, 2020, 12:26:27 AM »
Also doing what you guys are talking about would force people to re-download and reinstall their whole freaking game all over again

Every patch on ru has done that. Theres been several new war2combat releases in the past 3 years alone has there not? Including one which was quickly released to remove Lambchops Chop plugin not even a month into it being part of the main combat? Warcraft 2 takes under 2 minutes to install from a fresh google search. Under a minute if you're familiar I don't know why this is one of your mains arguments against a balance patch lol, All games make you download a new patch, some of those patches alone on those games are twice the size of the full war2 game, which is like 100x war2combats size.

and on the contrary, many games force patches and have some of the largest esports. So "if you have to force it its probably trash" is a pretty silly argument. League of legends has been around longer then 10 years now, and is bigger now then it was back then. Starcraft 1, which is nearly as old as warcraft 2, is doing great. Warcraft 3, despite the mess caused by reforged, is still hosting competitive things all the time, They even adjusted the functionality of a healing spell not long  ago on a hero much like what this thread is trying here, No discussion on it, it happened, and  nothing drastic changed about the game after they changed that heros healing spell, no ones nostalgia was ruined because the alchemist hero is no longer also healing the enemy team with healing spray when using it on his team. it didn't make him so op that tavern heros were meta in every race. It was a balance change. It made him more usable, it made him get picked more in tournaments, if bloodlust does not get a nerf, which almost everyone doesn't deny is op, Why wouldn't you want a slight balance change for human at the very least to make them at least picked more in a matchup? If Terran has a 5% pick rate and a - 50% winrate, while protoss is 20% pickrate with a 52% winrate, and zerg is 75% pickrate with a 82% winrate, on a game that is basically the father of esports, do you not think this would be a problem in a game with such a huge competitive scene? and a forced patch to help even  out those winrates would be trash? War2 is in a worse situation then that example when it comes to race pickrate and winrate.

Units / items in other games get nerfed simply for how they perform in certain maps, and thus cop a global nerf even when they dont end up on those maps. Warcraft 3 is another example of this. The Tome of experience got an experience reduction due to how it overperformed on the twisted meadows map. You could instantly go from level 1 to level 3 as a humans player immidietely after creating your hero if you got lucky with a tomb of experience drop. 1 map being too strong for it caused that change globally across all maps. they nerfed the experience on it, before only last year in 2019, they decided to finally remove the item entirely from the drop table.