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anti-capitalism thread 99701  1538

Death Knight Posts: 3167 Karma: +118/-12 *********

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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #435 on: September 24, 2015, 01:10:16 PM »
i am not arguing pay vs performance for ceo's, im arguing ceo output vs average employee output. less irrelevant and unrelated sources please

Define "output." Once you do that, show where either I or Jon claimed that "the average employee" as an individual has greater "output" than an executive.

also, this section of my post stabbed the very ego of yours that i was talking about so you decided to single it out right away and reply

Stop projecting.
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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #436 on: September 24, 2015, 01:15:42 PM »
yes, i think upper management positions, including ceo types, work much harder jobs, longer work days and actually move the needle a lot more so than the average worker they employee. there are always exceptions of course. you disagree with this. Great?


still parroting this nonsense? ok. let's look at studies.


http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2014-07-22/for-ceos-correlation-between-pay-and-stock-performance-is-pretty-random

this study finds literally no correlation between pay and company performance, so where is the "stress" coming from exactly when they know they can fuck up and still make loads of cash? ? ? the average worker doesn't have that luxury , do they?



http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1572085
Abstract:     
We find evidence that Chief Executive Officer (CEO) pay is negatively related to future stock returns for periods up to three years after sorting on pay. For example, firms that pay their CEOs in the top ten percent of excess pay earn negative abnormal returns over the next three years of approximately -8%. The effect is stronger for CEOs who receive higher incentive pay relative to their peers and stronger for CEOs with greater tenure. Our results appear to be driven by high-pay related CEO overconfidence that leads to shareholder wealth losses from activities such as overinvestment and value-destroying mergers and acquisitions.


CEOs get paid so much they literally don't give a fuck.






i am not arguing pay vs performance for ceo's, im arguing ceo output vs average employee output. less irrelevant and unrelated sources please



the studies destroy your arguments completely.
also what is a CEO's output? their entire job is figuring out how to maximize profits, so all they do is  think of ways about how better to exploit their labour that's creating their wealth in the first place so they can better serve their bourgeois masters.
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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #437 on: September 24, 2015, 01:16:19 PM »
I'm not saying Hitler wasn't bad, I'm just saying he was deep down a good person who just wanted the best for Germany, and did a lot of good things while making a few small mistakes along the way. Please stop dishonestly characterizing my position as apologizing for Hitler.
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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #439 on: September 24, 2015, 01:41:11 PM »
a ceo fucks up he just resigns and sleeps on his mountain of cash while workers get laid off.


Volkswagen CEO Likely to Get $32 Million Pension After Leaving


damn so much stress
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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #440 on: September 24, 2015, 02:07:00 PM »
gn - it never ends with you. you're completely full of shit and you are a filthy debater. I tried man. I tried to read your post. And yeah, I knew it would be full of twists and lies - you always switch your own argument in the slightest ways AND the change the oppositions whenever you see it beneficial to you. It's pathetic, and you do it ever so discreetly. it's always the same with you, i have to go back and review your original points and mine because just to get the real story

so i tried to read your next post, but I caught you on bullshit within the very first sentence. because of this, i gave up on reading even a spec of the rest.

But here's the issue as it pertains to ur first sentence

your argument went from

"Morons like Swift are completely incapable of thinking of these issues on a global scale so everything this retard says is framed around THE AMERICAN MIDDLE CLASS lol."

This is not a provable point, on either side. I denied it, and stated that I am considering a global perspective when I say CEO's work harder than the average worker and for you to suggest otherwise is an inkling of suspicion and nothing more. At the end of the day, the only thing I am denying is the accusation that i don't think of such on a global scale.

But you wouldn't let it go, so you change your argument ever so slightly (as always) to

"your position fails to acknowledge a global perspective"

First you're straight up accusing me of being unable to think of things on a global scale, from oh "well he's just not acknowledging it"

I'm sure the rest of your post is filled with slight variations of your arguments, random additions to mine made by you, and tons and tons of gray throughout your wordage to prevent people from ever truly pinning you down. i'm done with you
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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #441 on: September 24, 2015, 02:20:27 PM »
And just to make a pre-reply to whatever bullshit twist you'll pull out of your ass again:

If in your original post you said "your position fails to acknowledge a global perspective" then yeah, I would have agreed. i absolutely didn't use third worlder type examples or put a post-it disclaimer on my forehead "Please be advised, I take things into a global perspective not just a national one"

But that's not what you said, you claimed im incapable of thinking of these issues on a global scale - and that's what I was arguing, not ur shift in argument

filthy debater


I'm not saying Hitler wasn't bad, I'm just saying he was deep down a good person who just wanted the best for Germany, and did a lot of good things while making a few small mistakes along the way. Please stop dishonestly characterizing my position as apologizing for Hitler.

perfect. thanks for posting this perfect example of how you shape and shift peoples arguments into something they aren't. you're dq'd
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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #442 on: September 24, 2015, 02:36:04 PM »
gn - it never ends with you. you're completely full of shit and you are a filthy debater. I tried man. I tried to read your post. And yeah, I knew it would be full of twists and lies - you always switch your own argument in the slightest ways AND the change the oppositions whenever you see it beneficial to you. It's pathetic, and you do it ever so discreetly. it's always the same with you, i have to go back and review your original points and mine because just to get the real story

so i tried to read your next post, but I caught you on bullshit within the very first sentence. because of this, i gave up on reading even a spec of the rest.

But here's the issue as it pertains to ur first sentence

your argument went from

"Morons like Swift are completely incapable of thinking of these issues on a global scale so everything this retard says is framed around THE AMERICAN MIDDLE CLASS lol."

This is not a provable point, on either side. I denied it, and stated that I am considering a global perspective when I say CEO's work harder than the average worker and for you to suggest otherwise is an inkling of suspicion and nothing more. At the end of the day, the only thing I am denying is the accusation that i don't think of such on a global scale.

But you wouldn't let it go, so you change your argument ever so slightly (as always) to

"your position fails to acknowledge a global perspective"

First you're straight up accusing me of being unable to think of things on a global scale, from oh "well he's just not acknowledging it"

I'm sure the rest of your post is filled with slight variations of your arguments, random additions to mine made by you, and tons and tons of gray throughout your wordage to prevent people from ever truly pinning you down. i'm done with you
And just to make a pre-reply to whatever bullshit twist you'll pull out of your ass again:

If in your original post you said "your position fails to acknowledge a global perspective" then yeah, I would have agreed. i absolutely didn't use third worlder type examples or put a post-it disclaimer on my forehead "Please be advised, I take things into a global perspective not just a national one"

But that's not what you said, you claimed im incapable of thinking of these issues on a global scale - and that's what I was arguing, not ur shift in argument

filthy debater


I'm not saying Hitler wasn't bad, I'm just saying he was deep down a good person who just wanted the best for Germany, and did a lot of good things while making a few small mistakes along the way. Please stop dishonestly characterizing my position as apologizing for Hitler.

perfect. thanks for posting this perfect example of how you shape and shift peoples arguments into something they aren't. you're dq'd

Nice meltdown.
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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #443 on: September 24, 2015, 02:39:49 PM »
me after reading gn's post

! No longer available
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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #444 on: September 24, 2015, 02:54:52 PM »
I'll lay down yet another layer of ownage here though:

gn - it never ends with you. you're completely full of shit and you are a filthy debater. I tried man. I tried to read your post. And yeah, I knew it would be full of twists and lies

Can you point out the specific "twists" and lies" contained in the post? I don't think I actually did these things, but I am willing to entertain the notion that I am mistaken if you have evidence to back this statement up. Do you?

Also, if you refer to something like characterizing your arguments as apologia for the rich as a "lie" or "twisting your argument," I ask that you please respond to my explanation for why I characterized your argument this way and explain why its wrong. If you are unable or unwilling to do this you should acknowledge you are not equipped to participate in a good faith discussion on this topic.

- you always switch your own argument in the slightest ways AND the change the oppositions whenever you see it beneficial to you. It's pathetic, and you do it ever so discreetly.

Where did I do this exactly? Or did I use my secret filthy debating powers to do it so "discreetly" that you nor anyone else can point to it?

it's always the same with you, i have to go back and review your original points and mine because just to get the real story

Yes, that's part of participating in a debate or a discussion. I often go back and review previous posts I made and previous posts you made to make sure I am not making inaccurate statements, or to review the context of the discussion, or any number of other reasons. If this is too mentally challenging for you maybe you should play Angry Birds in your free time instead.

But here's the issue as it pertains to ur first sentence

your argument went from

"Morons like Swift are completely incapable of thinking of these issues on a global scale so everything this retard says is framed around THE AMERICAN MIDDLE CLASS lol."

This is not a provable point, on either side. I denied it, and stated that I am considering a global perspective when I say CEO's work harder than the average worker and for you to suggest otherwise is an inkling of suspicion and nothing more. At the end of the day, the only thing I am denying is the accusation that i don't think of such on a global scale.

Yes, and I laid out my reasons for why you do not seem to think of such things on a global scale, and how your arguments fail to acknowledge a global perspective. You have yet to respond to these reasons, you simply just say "actually, I do have a global perspective," without actually pointing out how my statements on this topic are incorrect specifically. You can respond to them now if you like.

Once again, it is not based on an "inkling of suspicion" that you don't acknowledge a global perspective in your arguments. I read your arguments and evaluated them from a global perspective, and found them completely lacking, and explained why. That is not "suspicion," that is an objective evaluation of your statements and arguments, that they lack a global perspective for the reasons I already articulated. Again, you are free to respond to those reasons now, if you like.

But you wouldn't let it go, so you change your argument ever so slightly (as always) to

"your position fails to acknowledge a global perspective"

First you're straight up accusing me of being unable to think of things on a global scale, from oh "well he's just not acknowledging it"

I'm sure the rest of your post is filled with slight variations of your arguments, random additions to mine made by you, and tons and tons of gray throughout your wordage to prevent people from ever truly pinning you down. i'm done with you

Lol, really Swift? I said you are not able to understand these issues on a global perspective. My evidence and backing for this assertion? The fact that your arguments, as presented, lack a global perspective. It is not a huge leap of logic to presume you yourself lack that perspective if your arguments also do, because if you yourself had that perspective, why would you omit it from your argument or position? Would it also be unfair for me to say a person who claims the sun revolves around the Earth lacks a scientific perspective? Should I instead assume that actually they do not lack that perspective, but deliberately ignored it or omitted it from their statement about the Earth's solar rotation for some strange, arcane reason? That doesn't make a lot of sense Swift. I think it actually makes more sense that if someone articulates a position that shows a stunning lack of knowledge or perspective on a given subject to assume that they lack that knowledge and/or perspective, rather than assume that they do not but are pretending that they do for...what reason, exactly?

Your statement basically boils down to "it is not fair to assume I lack a global perspective on capitalism just because my sincere and earnest arguments about capitalism lack that perspective." Well, I disagree. Assuming you are arguing in good faith I think that is a fair assumption to make. I think if you did have that perspective it would actually be incorporated into your arguments. I suppose it is possible you are deliberately making dumb arguments that you don't believe or support, but it does not seem likely.

And just to make a pre-reply to whatever bullshit twist you'll pull out of your ass again:

Huh? I thought you were done with me?

If in your original post you said "your position fails to acknowledge a global perspective" then yeah, I would have agreed. i absolutely didn't use third worlder type examples or put a post-it disclaimer on my forehead "Please be advised, I take things into a global perspective not just a national one"

But that's not what you said, you claimed im incapable of thinking of these issues on a global scale - and that's what I was arguing, not ur shift in argument

filthy debater

Wait...so your defense actually is that you do have a global perspective, but just omit it from your arguments and positions for some reason? Lol. I actually wrote that out before I read this, I can't believe you're this desperate to score points. No, sorry, if your arguments lack a global perspective and you are arguing in sincerity it is perfectly reasonable to assume you lack that perspective yourself. I could be wrong about that, and have given you several opportunities to articulate your position in a way that does acknowledge a global perspective, but you have failed to do so, and with each failure to do so I become more and more confident in my original assumption that you do not understand these issues from such a perspective. Get owned bitch!!!

perfect. thanks for posting this perfect example of how you shape and shift peoples arguments into something they aren't.

You're welcome. And, again, nice meltdown.
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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #445 on: September 24, 2015, 03:02:35 PM »
You are dq'd due to being caught countless times distorting your very own arguments as well as your oppositions'. your posts are no longer eligible for review
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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #446 on: September 24, 2015, 03:05:54 PM »
You are dq'd due to being caught countless times distorting your very own arguments as well as your oppositions'. your posts are no longer eligible for review

You got owned and now you're melting down really hard, and its funny.
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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #447 on: September 24, 2015, 03:18:58 PM »
you said i am " incapable of thinking of these issues on a global scale", and the so called evidence you provide for this is that its true because i didn't have anything in particular  that proves otherwise within my posts. That is not logical.

so you bait and switch your argument to stating I didn't presently acknowledge anything globally - which is true, but this wasn't your original claim. it's simple. i don't need to read your posts and reply to every detail, you switched your argument, as you always do, and that's not how it works. you can go create lengthy replies, and think you won something because your overall care-factor fuels your endurance to a point that far exceeds my patience with you. but the fact remains, you changed arguments and are trying to make me defend against a point that wasn't originally made.
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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #448 on: September 24, 2015, 03:37:30 PM »
you said i am " incapable of thinking of these issues on a global scale", and the so called evidence you provide for this is that its true because i didn't have anything in particular  that proves otherwise within my posts. That is not logical.

It actually is logical to assume that, if someone is arguing in sincerity, and their sincere arguments are missing certain facts or perspective critical to their argument having a connection to reality, that they actually lack that information. People generally do not omit certain fundamental parts of their world view when expressing sincere opinions, unless it is a mistake or an oversight. I acknowledged that the latter happens and have given you a number of opportunities to show that you do actually have a global perspective and that its lacking in previous arguments was a mistake or an oversight, but instead you stamp your feet and accuse me of being dishonest for asking you to explain yourself, which as I said makes me more and more sure of the accuracy of my initial assumption as time goes on.

so you bait and switch your argument to stating I didn't presently acknowledge anything globally -

Rofl, bait and switch? Fuck you are reaching. Again, it is not at all illogical or dishonest or unfair to assume that someone's ostensibly sincere opinions are based around their world view. If your sincere opinions lack a global perspective, it is not illogical, dishonest or unfair to assume that you yourself lack that perspective, and that is why it is not incorporated in your argument. The two are closely related and even your dumb ass wouldn't argue otherwise if you being owned so hard by me wasn't clouding your ability to think rationally.

which is true,

Just quoting for the record that you agree that your position here is completely lacking a global perspective, which is the basis for my statement that you yourself lack that perspective.

i don't need to read your posts and reply to every detail, you switched your argument, as you always do, and that's not how it works.

No, I never switched my argument. I still maintain the argument that you yourself lack a global perspective on these issues. This argument is based on the fact, acknowledged by you, that the arguments you have presented in this thread lack a global perspective. These opinions can be held at the same time and are not contradictory, in fact they are complementary.

you can go create lengthy replies, and think you won something because your overall care-factor fuels your endurance to a point that far exceeds my patience with you.

Stop projecting in your meltdowns. You're the guy who claimed you were "done" like three posts ago. I don't care to argue about who has more "care" here but your inability to stop replying along with your silly posturing acting as if you are going to stop replying any second because you are too good for this doesn't really make you look very chill on that front.

but the fact remains, you changed arguments and are trying to make me defend a point that wasn't originally made.

I didn't make you do anything, and I didn't switch arguments, as previously explained. I assume this is your second acknowledgement that the arguments you've articulated in this thread lack a global perspective, and as such should be dismissed by globally minded individuals?
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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #449 on: September 24, 2015, 04:02:32 PM »
i'm actually surprised you consider that logical. I would have that beneath even you. You're the worst, now you're even defending your illogical conclusion with illogical reasoning. you're saying that anytime someone presents an argument they have to clarify and present all the fundamental facts surrounding the subject before proceeding, or it is assumed they are not aware of such. No, tacit information is regularly skipped over in conversation and debates, in all walks of lives, on all subjects, over and over.

it's silly and embarrassing for you, just stop.

also, the rest of your post is full of bullshit and lies to