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anti-capitalism thread 104336  1536

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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #420 on: September 24, 2015, 10:55:04 AM »

how do you get your evidence? i'll admit that i only have a limited amount of real life examples i rely on, none of which are real life persons that head up mega companies like nike or something

Some people can read you fucktard.

Good thing your a swine and not people


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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #421 on: September 24, 2015, 10:56:49 AM »

how do you get your evidence? i'll admit that i only have a limited amount of real life examples i rely on, none of which are real life persons that head up mega companies like nike or something

Some people can read you fucktard.

Good thing your a swine and not people


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You make Swift look like Aristotle.
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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #422 on: September 24, 2015, 10:57:30 AM »


how do you get your evidence? i'll admit that i only have a limited amount of real life examples i rely on, none of which are real life persons that head up mega companies like nike or something

Some people can read you fucktard.

Good thing your a swine and not people


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You make Swift look like Aristotle.



Your both retarded, including your hand puppet Jon.


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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #423 on: September 24, 2015, 11:00:40 AM »


how do you get your evidence? i'll admit that i only have a limited amount of real life examples i rely on, none of which are real life persons that head up mega companies like nike or something

Some people can read you fucktard.

Good thing your a swine and not people


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You make Swift look like Aristotle.



Your both retarded, including your hand puppet Jon.


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I clown on Jon all the time and, basically, you're fucking stupid.
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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #424 on: September 24, 2015, 11:03:03 AM »



how do you get your evidence? i'll admit that i only have a limited amount of real life examples i rely on, none of which are real life persons that head up mega companies like nike or something

Some people can read you fucktard.

Good thing your a swine and not people


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You make Swift look like Aristotle.



Your both retarded, including your hand puppet Jon.


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I clown on Jon all the time and, basically, you're fucking stupid.

Why he is your hand puppet, dumbass.


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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #425 on: September 24, 2015, 11:04:04 AM »
Why he is your hand puppet, dumbass.

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That makes no sense, you're a retard and nobody likes your posts.
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anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #426 on: September 24, 2015, 11:04:40 AM »
Why he is your hand puppet, dumbass.

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That makes no sense, you're a retard and nobody likes your posts.

U madd swine?


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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #427 on: September 24, 2015, 11:05:57 AM »
Why he is your hand puppet, dumbass.

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That makes no sense, you're a retard and nobody likes your posts.

U madd swine?


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I'm not mad because I was actually just thinking of 9/11 and how funny it was, lol.
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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #428 on: September 24, 2015, 11:48:08 AM »
Lol all you have to do is joke about 9/11 and this little bitch has to cry in the corner of his room for an hour before he can get on the internet again.
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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #429 on: September 24, 2015, 11:56:51 AM »
i am talking globally, not just the states. your bad for assuming otherwise.

You absolutely are not. In this very post you spend less than a sentence talking about the global situation, and then go on to talk about how hard it is to be an "entrepeneur" because all the ones you know work so hard. Making token statements to the effect that there's a world outside the US does not mean your argument or analysis meaningfully incorporates these facts.

i understand many places around the world have non-existent/relaxed labor laws, or at least governments willing to bend them for one incentive or another, and pieces of shit take advantage of this with long work weeks etc - however most big shot entrepreneurs/upper-management guys i know (i've never met ceo's to big corps though, but i assume they are the same as follow) get warmed up at 70 hours a week, and most severely struggle with trying to separate work life from personal life as they cant shut it off. it's a sort of addiction/obsession, in it's own very powerful way. There's constant fear of disappointing colleagues, employees, or struggling to keep finances up by taking huge financial risks, file bankruptcy multiple times, stay up late working on huge projects or stressing over direction/risks they're undergoing, etc etc etc. there's healthy life style books written for and geared toward these types - see again, biggerpockets.com granted, i'm sure they have MUCH better working conditions/environments then a lot of people out there but that's for another conversation.

also, i never said CEO's "deserve their money" and I made sure to clarify this more than once. your bad again

i'm sure you'll assume something or twist my argument in some way, as you always do - perhaps this time you'll take the angle of "oh swift's trying to create a pity party for the blood sucking capitalists" which i am not. Again, the pay and working conditions are absolutely unfair for the middle/poor classes throughout the world. all i am saying is these types typically are some of the most dedicated/obsessive hard working types who get their position due to these "qualities". in addition to this, they typically have other types of qualities, some of them are great at implementing or even coming up with new ideas, some are amazing talent scouts, etc etc.

So what is your fucking point? Who fucking cares? A middle class or wealthy person who chooses to be obsessed with his or her work and work this way, what are you saying about them? That they actually do "work hard?" Or harder than the working class? They don't. Even if you want to compare some McDonald's cashier wage slave with no responsibility performing completely brainless and menial tasks, the "hard working entrepeneur" myth bullshit person you're talking about has the security of choosing to be an "entrepeneur" (I love the use of this word as some kind of sanitized, forward looking capitalist btw), people like that don't start from nothing and work 80 hours a week and build something from scratch. The McDonald's wage slave is dependent on that job or a similarly low skilled job for their very survival. There is a difference between "working hard" on what is essentially a big fucking hobby and working for the survival of yourself and your family. And who is making money off the latter? These fucking "entrepeneurs" you're talking up like a Republican presidential candidate. These people overwhelmingly come from the middle and upper classes. They have assets. They work like this because its what they like to do in life and they want to make more money. They are "good at what they do" as you say because they are the only classes who have the chance to do these things, the working class does not have access to the education and resources that allow these opportunities.

You are completely unable to evaluate capitalist society in an objective, scientific way. You completely ignore the global structure of oppression and exploitation ("i understand many places around the world have non-existent/relaxed labor laws, or at least governments willing to bend them for one incentive or another, and pieces of shit take advantage of this with long work weeks etc - however...*droning paragraph about how hard it is to be a CEO*") and focus on vulgar individualist platitudes based on "people you know" and liberal capitalist propaganda. You do not understand the difference between owning the means of production and laboring under those owners for survival.

"Healthy lifestyle books" lmfao. "Feel sorry for these people, sometimes they have to pay $30 for self help books and another few hundred for a seminar on mindfulness just to get through their lives." I would believe you were trolling if you hadn't repeatedly shown yourself to actually be this stupid.

also, i never said CEO's "deserve their money" and I made sure to clarify this more than once. your bad again

You're bad for making this argument and then saying "I'm not making that argument!" as if that changes the actual content of what you're writing. "I'm not saying child molesters are not monsters deserving of more pity than their victims, but *writes one sentence about how its bad to be molested and then a bazillion sentences about how hard it is to be someone who wants to fuck kids*

they aren't just sipping pina colada's 24/7 on beaches as jon seems to think.

Now who's twisting people's words? Jon and I obviously don't think a CEO literally spends 24/7 on the beach. We both believe they are enormously wealthy and privileged people compared to the rest of the world and most people in the world would gladly trade their life for that one, including the supposed 80 hour work week you keep harping on. Are you actually going to argue otherwise? If not, what the fuck is your point? Some people who run companies work a lot because they are capitalist leeches obsessed with money? Okay Swift, that's true! Can you shut the fuck up unless you have a point?

granted ceo is a very broad term and job description/tasks for these individuals can vary greatly from company to company - most are picked carefully by the company and have to answer to a board of directors, chairman etc who ultimately reports back to purely profit motivated shareholders... but this "hey lets just hire billy because we like billy and then we'll just fucking pay him a high 6 or even 7 figure salary with amazing benefits so that he can fuck around and be a rich bastard while not attending to our multi-million/billion dollar company" is absurd. these mother fuckers all want a quality ceo who works both hard and smart because his/her direction/risks will reflect on the board of directors greatly who ultimately are always out of a job if the shareholders want it so.

You're now arguing capitalism is a meritocracy and nepotism is practically nonexistent? Jesus.

And before you accuse me of strawmanning you, this is what you said. "The idea that they are just going to hire their friends and pay them a 6 or 7 figure salary is absurd, they want a quality CEO" (paraphrase). Are you really this fucking stupid? Besides naked nepotism that exists in practically any human organization where friends or family members or people closer to the authority receive beneficial promotions and pay, what about the fact that the vast majority of the planet is barred from these positions not because of merit, but because their class position completely bars them from accessing the resources they would need to enter into these positions?

1 - I'm not going to get into an argument about whether or not I take a global perspective when talking about capitalism, just because you have an inkling of suspicion
2 - yes, i think upper management positions, including ceo types, work much harder jobs, longer work days and actually move the needle a lot more so than the average worker they employee. there are always exceptions of course. you disagree with this. Great?
3 - You twisted my argument exactly in the way I predicted you would in my post prior i said "i'm sure you'll assume something or twist my argument in some way, as you always do - perhaps this time you'll take the angle of 'oh swift's trying to create a pity party for the blood sucking capitalists' which i am not." ---- obviously i am not suggesting a pity party for these folk, they have lovely working conditions, way to much fucking money, the liberty to do whatever they want from day to day (as you mentioned), and so forth.
4 - You proceed to suggest I don't know some of the fundamental mechanics behind capitalism like "You do not understand the difference between owning the means of production and laboring under those owners for survival. " LOL, i would struggle more with doing basic division than failing to understand this shit. you're ridiculous and out of touch with reality. you're the only person i've met who thinks you have access to a certain type of knowledge that the only special among us, such as yourself, are capable of comprehending simply because you read a few of k. marx's books/pamphlets. the guy has come up with some interesting and thought provoking stuff, that much is true, but none of which is the stuff that you regularly refer to.
5 - recognizing that ceo's don't deserve what they're paid greatly changes my argument. you took the liberty of adding it back into my argument in order to try to make my point look bad.
6 - you're right that i did over exaggerate yours and jon's perspective.
7 - uh of course i think you're strawmanning me. that's all you ever do always? refer to #1, #3, #5 and almost every other arguing post you've written in reply to me.
oh, and everything's always so black and white with you. i don't think it's either a meritocracy or nepotism system. i think it's a mix of both. We're divided into class and opportunity groups, we compete within our own group with other class members.


but honestly gn, i'm less interested in how you misinterpret, add your petty assumptions and twist all of my arguments and more interested in why you seem like such an angry arrogant person. you're so full of yourself, and so angry.  you should take model after your buddy's jon and blid. jon's distaste for capitalists seems much more sincere than your own, and blid who seemingly agrees with you on every little detail and idolizes you, is much more well grounded and rational than yourself.
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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #430 on: September 24, 2015, 12:12:07 PM »
yes, i think upper management positions, including ceo types, work much harder jobs, longer work days and actually move the needle a lot more so than the average worker they employee. there are always exceptions of course. you disagree with this. Great?


still parroting this nonsense? ok. let's look at studies.


http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2014-07-22/for-ceos-correlation-between-pay-and-stock-performance-is-pretty-random

this study finds literally no correlation between pay and company performance, so where is the "stress" coming from exactly when they know they can fuck up and still make loads of cash? ? ? the average worker doesn't have that luxury , do they?



http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1572085
Abstract:     
We find evidence that Chief Executive Officer (CEO) pay is negatively related to future stock returns for periods up to three years after sorting on pay. For example, firms that pay their CEOs in the top ten percent of excess pay earn negative abnormal returns over the next three years of approximately -8%. The effect is stronger for CEOs who receive higher incentive pay relative to their peers and stronger for CEOs with greater tenure. Our results appear to be driven by high-pay related CEO overconfidence that leads to shareholder wealth losses from activities such as overinvestment and value-destroying mergers and acquisitions.


CEOs get paid so much they literally don't give a fuck.



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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #431 on: September 24, 2015, 12:13:12 PM »
but honestly gn, i'm less interested in how you misinterpret, add your petty assumptions and twist all of my arguments and more interested in why you seem like such an angry arrogant person. you're so full of yourself, and so angry.  you should take model after your buddy's jon and blid. jon's distaste for capitalists seems much more sincere than your own, and blid who seemingly agrees with you on every little detail and idolizes you, is much more well grounded and rational than yourself.


I'm going to finish owning you in just a second but lol, when I saw your wall of retarded text I knew you would throw in some holier than thou bullshit in the mix like this. You're so fucking predictable and pathetic. Swift is so much smarter and more reasonable and well adjusted and happier than the people who explain what an idiot he is!
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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #432 on: September 24, 2015, 12:18:48 PM »
yes, i think upper management positions, including ceo types, work much harder jobs, longer work days and actually move the needle a lot more so than the average worker they employee. there are always exceptions of course. you disagree with this. Great?


still parroting this nonsense? ok. let's look at studies.


http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2014-07-22/for-ceos-correlation-between-pay-and-stock-performance-is-pretty-random

this study finds literally no correlation between pay and company performance, so where is the "stress" coming from exactly when they know they can fuck up and still make loads of cash? ? ? the average worker doesn't have that luxury , do they?



http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1572085
Abstract:     
We find evidence that Chief Executive Officer (CEO) pay is negatively related to future stock returns for periods up to three years after sorting on pay. For example, firms that pay their CEOs in the top ten percent of excess pay earn negative abnormal returns over the next three years of approximately -8%. The effect is stronger for CEOs who receive higher incentive pay relative to their peers and stronger for CEOs with greater tenure. Our results appear to be driven by high-pay related CEO overconfidence that leads to shareholder wealth losses from activities such as overinvestment and value-destroying mergers and acquisitions.


CEOs get paid so much they literally don't give a fuck.






i am not arguing pay vs performance for ceo's, im arguing ceo output vs average employee output. less irrelevant and unrelated sources please
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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #433 on: September 24, 2015, 12:24:35 PM »
but honestly gn, i'm less interested in how you misinterpret, add your petty assumptions and twist all of my arguments and more interested in why you seem like such an angry arrogant person. you're so full of yourself, and so angry.  you should take model after your buddy's jon and blid. jon's distaste for capitalists seems much more sincere than your own, and blid who seemingly agrees with you on every little detail and idolizes you, is much more well grounded and rational than yourself.


I'm going to finish owning you in just a second but lol, when I saw your wall of retarded text I knew you would throw in some holier than thou bullshit in the mix like this. You're so fucking predictable and pathetic. Swift is so much smarter and more reasonable and well adjusted and happier than the people who explain what an idiot he is!

you're going to finish distorting and twisting what i said in a few seconds.

also, this section of my post stabbed the very ego of yours that i was talking about so you decided to single it out right away and reply
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Re: anti-capitalism thread
« Reply #434 on: September 24, 2015, 01:08:43 PM »
1 - I'm not going to get into an argument about whether or not I take a global perspective when talking about capitalism, just because you have an inkling of suspicion

Characterizing my argument as based on an "inkling of suspicion" is dishonest, as I have explained with examples and evidence how your position fails to acknowledge a global perspective. Since I have presented this evidence, and you have not refuted it, and lied about the nature of my argument, I will read this as your ceding the point.

2 - yes, i think upper management positions, including ceo types, work much harder jobs, longer work days and actually move the needle a lot more so than the average worker they employee. there are always exceptions of course. you disagree with this. Great?

I backed up my argument for why they do not, bringing up the material difference between the two classes with regards to their relationship to the means of production and the implications this has on their labor and lifestyles. You did not address any of these arguments, rather, you reframe this materialist, scientific argument as simply a subjective difference in opinion, while not addressing the details of my argument whatsoever. I will read this as you conceding that point as well.

Further, I even acknowledged in my post is that if all you're saying is "CEO's have to work too, and sometimes work long hours," I already agreed with you that that was true. I asked what your point is in making this argument, particularly relative to the working class, if not to apologize for and generate pity and empathy for the wealthy, and you have not responded to that.

3 - You twisted my argument exactly in the way I predicted you would in my post prior i said "i'm sure you'll assume something or twist my argument in some way, as you always do - perhaps this time you'll take the angle of 'oh swift's trying to create a pity party for the blood sucking capitalists' which i am not." ---- obviously i am not suggesting a pity party for these folk, they have lovely working conditions, way to much fucking money, the liberty to do whatever they want from day to day (as you mentioned), and so forth.

I explained how this was what your argument amounted to and you have not addressed that to say why I am wrong. To make an example, if I said "I am not saying Nazi Germany was good, but..." and then proceed to make an argument for why Nazi Germany was good, the fact that I preceded the argument with a statement calling it something else does not actually change the nature of the argument. The fact that you made an argument and "predicted" I would "twist it" into being about the substance of the argument rather than the non-sequitur disclaimer you preceded it with does not impress me.

4 - You proceed to suggest I don't know some of the fundamental mechanics behind capitalism like "You do not understand the difference between owning the means of production and laboring under those owners for survival. " LOL, i would struggle more with doing basic division than failing to understand this shit. you're ridiculous and out of touch with reality. you're the only person i've met who thinks you have access to a certain type of knowledge that the only special among us, such as yourself, are capable of comprehending simply because you read a few of k. marx's books/pamphlets. the guy has come up with some interesting and thought provoking stuff, that much is true, but none of which is the stuff that you regularly refer to.

If you do understand these things (I do not think you do), they are nonetheless not acknowledged in your argument. Is it possible that you do understand these things but just do not incorporate them into your rich people apologia here for some reason? Yes, it is possible, but 1) I doubt it is the case, and 2) even if true, your argument is still missing these pieces, and is therefore fundamentally flawed.

As for your personal attack, I think you are confusing my acknowledgement of the obvious fact that I am smarter, more knowledgeable on this subject, and more well-read than you with a general sense of thinking I am smarter, have a greater understanding of this subject, and am more well-read than everyone, which is not the case. There are certainly people with a greater understanding of these topics than myself, but you are most definitely not one of them.

5 - recognizing that ceo's don't deserve what they're paid greatly changes my argument. you took the liberty of adding it back into my argument in order to try to make my point look bad.

So I will ask again: What is your argument? If it's "executives work long hours and often work 'hard' (at least in a subjective sense) at their jobs" I've already acknowledged that this is true. If it's something else, please state clearly what it is.

7 - uh of course i think you're strawmanning me. that's all you ever do always? refer to #1, #3, #5 and almost every other arguing post you've written in reply to me.

Nah. I'm not fooled by this tactic of dismissing my arguments wholesale on the basis of "strawmanning." I made substantive arguments and backed up my views, you didn't respond directly to my arguments.

oh, and everything's always so black and white with you. i don't think it's either a meritocracy or nepotism system.

Again, here is what you said:

Quote
but this "hey lets just hire billy because we like billy and then we'll just fucking pay him a high 6 or even 7 figure salary with amazing benefits so that he can fuck around and be a rich bastard while not attending to our multi-million/billion dollar company" is absurd. these mother fuckers all want a quality ceo who works both hard and smart because his/her direction/risks will reflect on the board of directors greatly who ultimately are always out of a job if the shareholders want it so.

You call the idea that a board would hire someone on the basis of neptoism ("we like billy") is "absurd." This certainly sounds like you are dismissing nepotism as a significant factor in career advancement. Now you say it is "a mix of both." Where did those goalposts go? I could have sworn they were right here...

but honestly gn, i'm less interested in how you misinterpret, add your petty assumptions and twist all of my arguments and more interested in why you seem like such an angry arrogant person. you're so full of yourself, and so angry.  you should take model after your buddy's jon and blid. jon's distaste for capitalists seems much more sincere than your own, and blid who seemingly agrees with you on every little detail and idolizes you, is much more well grounded and rational than yourself.


lol again at this pathetic flailing. Get owned bitch.