Re: 'Murica thread
« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2015, 03:07:30 PM »
I agree with that of Thomas Jefferson when he said the people need to be properly educated to understand what good and bad government is.
If it was up to Jefferson "good government" would mean being run by slave owning and raping Aristocrats so I don't really care what that retard thinks about "good government."
I don't think we offer anything enlightening when it comes to education in this country.
Agreed, we don't teach enough Marxist science in schools.
Jefferson also felt a man who read nothing had more common sense than a man who read nothing but newspapers.
In this day and age, I feel this also applies to television and the internet (which I think is the source of your arguments).
Actually, that's probably the source of your arguments. This is a bunch of half baked Founding Fathers worship bullshit that's been drilled into your head from every direction since birth.
Back to my point though, as I feel I could write an entire book here if I keep rambling on. I see a lot of words thrown around like "retarded", "shitty", and "stupid". It's like giving everyone junk food instead of bananas. I feel everything presented in this thread is being interpreted in the absence of a greater understanding. As this is just a war2 forum, perhaps I'm focusing too much on having an intellectual discussion over things like this and it's nothing more than an overreaction.
Basically, and also its not worth engaging with idiot nationalist right wing people, just making fun of them.
I think you assume too much here in my argument. I don't see things in the way that you propose. Jefferson was a very flawed man. He owned slaves and contradicted his own philosophy of government while he was president, where he overstepped the boundaries of his position and purchased Louisiana from Napoleon. Then there was the embargo act, which cut off trade from both France and Britain due to their inability to accept America's neutral stance while they warred against one another, and it ended up hurting the US economy. There are a lot of things that I admire about Jefferson but I think we should also understand the mistakes he made. From what I gather from his letters written after his presidency, you'll find a very different perspective compared to his earlier years. For you, he was just a bigoted slave owner. You also have no understanding on his views of aristocracy either.
In a letter to John Adams (October 28, 1813 - for your own reference):
"For I agree with you that there is a natural aristocracy among men. The grounds of this are virtue and talents. Formerly bodily powers gave place among the aristoi. But since the invention of gunpowder has armed the weak as well as the strong with missile death, bodily strength, like beauty, good humor, politeness and other accomplishments, has become but an auxiliary ground of distinction. There is also an artificial aristocracy founded on wealth and birth, without either virtue or talents; for with these it would belong to the first class. The natural aristocracy I consider as the most precious gift of nature for the instruction, the trusts, and government of society. And indeed it would have been inconsistent in creation to have formed man for the social state, and not to have provided virtue and wisdom enough to manage the concerns of the society. May we not even say that that form of government is the best which provides the most effectually for a pure selection of these natural aristoi into the offices of government? The artificial aristocracy is a mischievous ingredient in government, and provision should be made to prevent it’s ascendancy."
I try to avoid conversations like this because I'm not a big fan of being too self assured. I also don't take in any information without questioning it first. And, yes, when there are things out there like Zeitgeist and Ancient Aliens, you'll find that with good research into the origins of what they present are very inaccurate and exaggerated. Clearly, it's better to be indoctrinated with nothing at all than to be indoctrinated with falsehoods. I despise Nationalism and do not "worship" any of the founding fathers. The founding fathers were very well educated and their views should be considered no matter how flawed they were. It's hard for me to even consider what you're trying to say here when you have no basis for your own arguments. What's half baked here is the lack of comprehensive research in the ideologies you're trying to promote (like Marxism).