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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Yamon on November 22, 2016, 12:47:06 PM

Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Yamon on November 22, 2016, 12:47:06 PM
brainwashed dumbocrats advocating their own demise by supporting clinton, obama and the entire democratic party.

The left is saying trump will inherit a good economy.

And that's fine for people who are incapable of expanding their research beyond paid and bought for news outlets who want to enslave you for their benefit. But for realists who can care enough to look for the facts here they are.

The only reason obama won is because bush strayed far far away from republican values and principles. Nearly tripling the size of the federal government. These are the consequences of bush's actions in-directly with obama. And now trump will inherit a shit economy just like reagan did. And when reagan fixed it, people thought that clinton was responsible because they're uneducated.

"When bush left me the white house, it was clear we had big differences as well " - obama
(http://thefreethoughtproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/bush-obama.jpg)

(https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15107382_572457296293643_8446740747623830171_n.jpg?oh=346bc39ca9b66d60bd57b0eef4f158c9&oe=58B456B2)


just remember the elites operate on the fact that they know if there's a nuclear attack they're going to be half way to Australia before anyone even knows about it. What will you do?
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on November 22, 2016, 12:57:32 PM
How did Bush stray, economically, from Republican values?

I see those graphs and believe that's due to wealth being more and more concentrated in fewer and fewer hands, which stalls the velocity of money, and which is basic Republican monetary policy (which is bad).  Shit like Trump's corporate welfare infrastructure proposal is extremely inefficient versus standard state-sponsored programs which have vastly higher fiscal multipliers.  When the median family income is crashing and debt is through the roof you're saying we need to give less to people and give more tax breaks to the rich.  Yeah let's see how that works.  Look at your own graph, bottom left, workers' share of the economy crashing.  Ouch.  Trump and Republicans want to accelerate that crash with their proposals for the benefit of the CEO class.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Yamon on November 22, 2016, 01:01:49 PM
How did Bush stray, economically, from Republican values?

I see those graphs and believe that's due to wealth being more and more concentrated in fewer and fewer hands, which stalls the velocity of money, and which is basic Republican monetary policy (which is bad).  Shit like Trump's corporate welfare infrastructure proposal is extremely inefficient versus standard state-sponsored programs which have vastly higher fiscal multipliers.  When the median family income is crashing and debt is through the roof you're saying we need to give less to people and give more tax breaks to the rich.  Yeah let's see how that works.  Look at your own graph, bottom left, workers' share of the economy crashing.  Ouch.  Trump and Republicans want to accelerate that crash with their proposals for the benefit of the CEO class.
that's bullshit. Tax cuts for the rich don't help anything. That's why bush's tax cuts were a joke. You have to cut taxes on lower and middle class for the economy to boom. Every single candidate has said they will do that since reagan, none has do so since reagan. That's why economists are advocating a non-politician to work on the economy, because it's clear they have no intention to fix it. In fact some are saying that it's intentional.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on November 22, 2016, 01:03:26 PM
The biggest beneficiaries of the Trump tax plan are by far the rich, though, correct?
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/trump-promised-rich-would-pay-their-fair-share-his-tax-plan-would-make-them-much-wealthier-1591905 (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/trump-promised-rich-would-pay-their-fair-share-his-tax-plan-would-make-them-much-wealthier-1591905)
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on November 22, 2016, 01:06:21 PM
77.7% of tax savings would go to the top 20% of people.

(https://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1567518/trump-tax-plan-analysis.jpg?w=736)

The bottom 40% get a combined 4.1% of the savings.  The bottom 60% reach a combined 10% of the savings.  The top 40% get the other 90%.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Yamon on November 22, 2016, 01:09:29 PM
The biggest beneficiaries of the Trump tax plan are by far the rich, though, correct?
[url]http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/trump-promised-rich-would-pay-their-fair-share-his-tax-plan-would-make-them-much-wealthier-1591905[/url] ([url]http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/trump-promised-rich-would-pay-their-fair-share-his-tax-plan-would-make-them-much-wealthier-1591905[/url])


i didn't hear anything about taxes in that video. But cutting taxes on the wealthy wouldn't hurt anything either if that was the case. As long as there is tax cuts in the middle and lower taxes on the wealthy are pretty irrelevant. This illusion of "greed" of the top 1-10% is just a narrative that is almost 100 years old to incite anger and division among common sense regulation so people don't know how anything works. And believe me, it's beyond effective. Hilary almost won.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on November 22, 2016, 01:10:38 PM
Look at the chart. Lol the top 1% get 71.5% of the savings.  Pretty much exactly the outcome one should expect from putting a billionaire Republican in charge.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Yamon on November 22, 2016, 01:18:22 PM
Look at the chart. Lol the top 1% get 71.5% of the savings.  Pretty much exactly the outcome one should expect from putting a billionaire Republican in charge.

it's also true that the top 1-0.1% are the only ones with the power to create jobs and generate revenue. The only reason cutting taxes on middle and lower class is so that money can be spent on the 1-01% and return their investments, and money will circulate faster. If people have more money to spend on investment, then people will invest, creating more growth, more jobs, and a higher GPD. Pretty simple cause-and-effect type scenario. That's why "Income Inequality" is such a ludacris term. Because people don't get to the top percentile with an income. They get it by creating values for others. E.g. investment. And to say they're greedy because they won't invest, is also ridiculous because it's within their best interest to do. The only reason companies held onto their cash during the bush tax cuts, is because all those tax cuts were for was publicity, you also have to end regulation on the free market to make companies want to invest. Which he Increased regulation. Trump wants to deregulate, which is why apple and ford are moving some factories back to the U.S. Evidence of deregulation being effective is most blatantly obvious with Hong Kong's flourishing economy. Where all you need to do to start a business, is wait in line for 30 minutes to get a $1 permit.
(http://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/img/editorial/2016/02/01/103351814-econ.530x298.png?v=1454379009)
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on November 22, 2016, 01:30:18 PM
Economic freedom is retarded.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Yamon on November 22, 2016, 01:32:02 PM
Economic freedom is retarded.

lets take a look at the alternative
(https://i.redditmedia.com/Cfw5nNGcx5l2qnjPkc2ut9N2Xrut5e5Vz6S4oDerHHc.jpg?w=800&s=204dd1a77ee415f7bedaa0d017bf33ed)
that's the results of Venezuela's socialist movement.

Lets take a look at imperial socialism. Soviet Russia.
(http://edge.liveleak.com/80281E/ll_a_u/thumbs/2014/Feb/6/058e30c4b273_sf_4.jpg)

where there is economic freedom:
(http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-LL168_1125_c_G_20151125084514.jpg)

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRKnKwQql94#)
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on November 22, 2016, 01:50:01 PM
lets take a look at bangladesh, the sweatshop of global capitalism

(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2013/04/25/world/jp-bangladesh1/jp-bangladesh1-jumbo.jpg)
(http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1339425.1368121481!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_750/bangladesh10n-1-web.jpg)
(http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/130509065515-02-bangladesh-factory-fire-0509-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg)
(http://wpmedia.news.nationalpost.com/2012/11/bangladesh-factory-fire10.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=940&h=627)

Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Yamon on November 22, 2016, 01:58:36 PM
Global capitalism is not capitalism. You think a country with sharia law can implement freedom correctly? It's a sideways argument. Just like china took steps in the right direction, they're still way behind the US. and hopefully Bangladesh will see their days of prosperity as they head in the right direction.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: ~ToRa~ on November 22, 2016, 02:03:26 PM
Global capitalism is not capitalism. You think a country with sharia law can implement freedom correctly? It's a sideways argument. Just like china took steps in the right direction, they're still way behind the US. and hopefully Bangladesh will see their days of prosperity as they head in the right direction.
Bangledesh doesn't have shariah law. There president is a women, and 99% of Bengalis are as religious as Americans. In other words they don't care about religion.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on November 22, 2016, 02:04:08 PM
Global capitalism is not capitalism.
Where do you think your clothes are made?  Check the tag.  If all our biggest garment and fashion companies weren't having their goods produced by slave labor in unsafe facilities, our prices would go up and ownership's profits would go down.  Therefore, they'll see to it that they always have a source of cheap labor... they'll hold back labor movements in Bangladesh and if the workers there were to get too empowered, they'd pick up the factories and go somewhere else. That is "economic freedom."
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Yamon on November 22, 2016, 02:07:48 PM
Global capitalism is not capitalism. You think a country with sharia law can implement freedom correctly? It's a sideways argument. Just like china took steps in the right direction, they're still way behind the US. and hopefully Bangladesh will see their days of prosperity as they head in the right direction.
Bangledesh doesn't have shariah law. There president is a women, and 99% of Bengalis are as religious as Americans. In other words they don't care about religion.
Islam is the national religion of Bangladesh. They neighbor with the Islamic State. America is primarily Christian. And all of our rights from our founding fathers, that you enjoy Tora, are "alienable rights given to us by God". The constitution, that has protected America since it's inception, is a highly religious document. Because you are an atheist and have never read the Bible, doesn't mean everyone else is. Just remember the same people who you hate " the propaganda, the elites" are the same ones pushing religion out of our minds with each passing day. In my personal opinion, being an atheist is trendy and it actually has less logic to it than being religious.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Yamon on November 22, 2016, 02:08:40 PM
Global capitalism is not capitalism.
Where do you think your clothes are made?  Check the tag.  If all our biggest garment and fashion companies weren't having their goods produced by slave labor in unsafe facilities, our prices would go up and ownership's profits would go down.  Therefore, they'll see to it that they always have a source of cheap labor... they'll hold back labor movements in Bangladesh and if the workers there were to get too empowered, they'd pick up the factories and go somewhere else. That is "economic freedom."
Yes. that's why deregulating is important to bring our jobs back. If doing business in another country is better, why not do it? It's pretty simple logic.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on November 22, 2016, 02:10:02 PM
You know what else is economic freedom?  Selling predatory mortgages to poor people.  Firms in a capitalist society are always profit-seeking, that's their nature, and they will harm people and crash the economy if it increases their bottom line.  Their "economic freedom" must be resisted
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: ~ToRa~ on November 22, 2016, 02:11:10 PM
America has no national religion. We are a secular country that separates church and state.
 
The founding fathers died almost 300 years ago what they stood for and believed means very little at this point. What matters is what the current generation wants and believes
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Yamon on November 22, 2016, 02:12:52 PM
You know what else is economic freedom?  Selling predatory mortgages to poor people.  Firms in a capitalist society are always profit-seeking, that's their nature, and they will harm people and crash the economy if it increases their bottom line.  Their "economic freedom" must be resisted
There is no such thing as a "predatory mortgage" . In 2006, the government said we need " more home ownership " and forced the banks to lend to people who they wouldn't. And of course there is a reason they wouldn't, and it's because they were likely not able to pay it back. And profit seeking is the root of all prosperity. It's a fact.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Yamon on November 22, 2016, 02:14:33 PM
America has no national religion. We are a secular country that separates church and state.
 
The founding fathers died almost 300 years ago what they stood for and believed means very little at this point. What matters is what the current generation wants and believes

One thing I always observe in young people like yourself Tora, is the belief that the people of the past were somehow ignorant. They were technologically inferior, but that's it. 300 years ago people got real educations, and all there was to do for fun was read books. And what they stood for and believed is means everything. It's why you are well off.

Here is the 14th amendment.
Tell me how easily you can read it. It's in English. It was written by farmers.

Section 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 2.

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each state, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the executive and judicial officers of a state, or the members of the legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such state, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such state.

Section 3.

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4.

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5.

The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

(http://crankycoder.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/What-Meme-13.jpg)
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: shesycompany on November 22, 2016, 02:15:51 PM
most people dont even know the bible....especially these local churches and it is used to use people and discriminate.

do i read it yeah,do i believe it not as much as when ur brought up in a church and dont question anything.so yeah it has made me wiser.

which i guess i kinda do believe it but differently, which is excercising my religious freedom.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: ~ToRa~ on November 22, 2016, 02:20:34 PM
Your aware that the founding fathers believed a black man was worth 3/5 of a white man? They lived in a different era.

An era we dont live in today.

These were people that essentially claimed right to America and said they "discovered" it despite there being a people already living there.(native indians)
The ideals and beliefs people held in the 1700s cannot be compared to the ideals and beliefs we hold today.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: ~ToRa~ on November 22, 2016, 02:23:07 PM
Fyi that post you did about that constitution was only supposed to be meant for "English settlers" according to the founding fathers.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Yamon on November 22, 2016, 02:27:18 PM
Your aware that the founding fathers believed a black man was worth 3/5 of a white man? They lived in a different era.

An era we dont live in today.

These were people that essentially claimed right to America and said they "discovered" it despite there being a people already living there.(native indians)
The ideals and beliefs people held in the 1700s cannot be compared to the ideals and beliefs we hold today.

Sir Isaac Newton -- The Discoverer of Gravity! Sir Isaac Newton was an English mathematician and mathematician and physicist who lived from 1642-1727. The legend is that Newton discovered Gravity when he saw a falling apple while thinking about the forces of nature.

So based on this argument, gravity  isn't real?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristarchus_of_Samos


humanity has always built off of what others have done, all of human history is just flat out progress, all the way
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: foonat on November 22, 2016, 02:29:14 PM
Lol @ Yamon go from saying tax cuts on the rich "don't help anything" to now defending those tax cuts because the rich "create jobs"

Also the latest proposed congressional tax plan actually raises taxes on poor people, with the lowest bracket going from a 10% to 12% rate. 
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Yamon on November 22, 2016, 02:38:50 PM
Lol @ Yamon go from saying tax cuts on the rich "don't help anything" to now defending those tax cuts because the rich "create jobs"

Also the latest proposed congressional tax plan actually raises taxes on poor people, with the lowest bracket going from a 10% to 12% rate. 
that's not what i said at all. Foonat you've always been very dumb. I don't care what you have to say about anything. Go play dota 2.

and if you want to take it to the garden, i will be happy to embarrass you like I did tk.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on November 22, 2016, 02:48:26 PM
Islam is the national religion of Bangladesh. They neighbor with the Islamic State.
Huh?  Does "the Islamic State" here mean Pakistan or does it mean nothing at all?

Global capitalism is not capitalism.
Where do you think your clothes are made?  Check the tag.  If all our biggest garment and fashion companies weren't having their goods produced by slave labor in unsafe facilities, our prices would go up and ownership's profits would go down.  Therefore, they'll see to it that they always have a source of cheap labor... they'll hold back labor movements in Bangladesh and if the workers there were to get too empowered, they'd pick up the factories and go somewhere else. That is "economic freedom."
Yes. that's why deregulating is important to bring our jobs back. If doing business in another country is better, why not do it? It's pretty simple logic.
How is deregulating going to bring jobs back??  We gonna axe the minimum wage so we can be paid $60/month like the Bangladeshi people?
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: ~ToRa~ on November 22, 2016, 02:49:59 PM
How is deregulating going to bring jobs back??  We gonna axe the minimum wage so we can be paid $60/month like the Bangladeshi people?
Awesome me and blid could make a fortune starting a business and only paying our employees $60 a month :)
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: foonat on November 22, 2016, 03:05:30 PM
Lol @ Yamon go from saying tax cuts on the rich "don't help anything" to now defending those tax cuts because the rich "create jobs"

Also the latest proposed congressional tax plan actually raises taxes on poor people, with the lowest bracket going from a 10% to 12% rate. 
that's not what i said at all. Foonat you've always been very dumb. I don't care what you have to say about anything. Go play dota 2.

and if you want to take it to the garden, i will be happy to embarrass you like I did tk.
You literally did say that. Go re-read what you wrote.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Yamon on November 22, 2016, 03:19:51 PM
Lol @ Yamon go from saying tax cuts on the rich "don't help anything" to now defending those tax cuts because the rich "create jobs"

Also the latest proposed congressional tax plan actually raises taxes on poor people, with the lowest bracket going from a 10% to 12% rate. 
that's not what i said at all. Foonat you've always been very dumb. I don't care what you have to say about anything. Go play dota 2.

and if you want to take it to the garden, i will be happy to embarrass you like I did tk.
You literally did say that. Go re-read what you wrote.
you go re-read it. I said Nothing of the sort. Defending tax cuts on the rich, is not Advocating tax cuts on the rich. I literally said the rich "create jobs" Yes. Meaning that TAX CUTS on the lower and middle class is a vital component of the rich creating jobs. That's literally what i said. It was crystal clear. There's only two options. Either you are trying to confuse other people, or you yourself are confused. And since you claim to be so intelligent, then i'll have to say it's the first one.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Yamon on November 22, 2016, 03:21:08 PM
Islam is the national religion of Bangladesh. They neighbor with the Islamic State.
Huh?  Does "the Islamic State" here mean Pakistan or does it mean nothing at all?

Global capitalism is not capitalism.
Where do you think your clothes are made?  Check the tag.  If all our biggest garment and fashion companies weren't having their goods produced by slave labor in unsafe facilities, our prices would go up and ownership's profits would go down.  Therefore, they'll see to it that they always have a source of cheap labor... they'll hold back labor movements in Bangladesh and if the workers there were to get too empowered, they'd pick up the factories and go somewhere else. That is "economic freedom."
Yes. that's why deregulating is important to bring our jobs back. If doing business in another country is better, why not do it? It's pretty simple logic.
How is deregulating going to bring jobs back??  We gonna axe the minimum wage so we can be paid $60/month like the Bangladeshi people?
the minimum wage law is a huge example of regulation hurting the economy. It's the single biggest contributor to unemployment on the books.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on November 22, 2016, 03:26:14 PM
Thought experiment: What if it's not?  What if profit-seeking enterprises are not going to employ large numbers of redundant people regardless of wages, because why would they?  And if self check-out robot scabs save them money over even a low-paid cashier, what efficiently-run business won't lay off cashiers?
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Yamon on November 22, 2016, 03:30:19 PM
Thought experiment: What if it's not?  What if profit-seeking enterprises are not going to employ large numbers of redundant people regardless of wages, because why would they?  And if self check-out robot scabs save them money over even a low-paid cashier, what efficiently-run business won't lay off cashiers?
Businesses are making robots to replace workers, because of the minimum wage law. Their shitty government education doesn't give them the knowledge or experience to justify them making the minimum wage, so they can't work. And business are getting tired of paying unfair wages to people, so they are replacing them. But it's not regardless of wages, it's because of wages. Making 50 cents under what's required by law would literally give jobs back to people.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on November 22, 2016, 03:32:14 PM
there's actually no evidence that minimum wage increases cause unemployment.  that is a faith-based argument and economists are basically astrologists

Myth: Increasing the minimum wage will cause people to lose their jobs.

Not true: In a letter to President Obama and congressional leaders urging a minimum wage increase, more than 600 economists, including 7 Nobel Prize winners wrote, "In recent years there have been important developments in the academic literature on the effect of increases in the minimum wage on employment, with the weight of evidence now showing that increases in the minimum wage have had little or no negative effect on the employment of minimum-wage workers, even during times of weakness in the labor market. Research suggests that a minimum-wage increase could have a small stimulative effect on the economy as low-wage workers spend their additional earnings, raising demand and job growth, and providing some help on the jobs front."

http://www.epi.org/minimum-wage-statement/ (http://www.epi.org/minimum-wage-statement/)

Quote
There is a huge literature on the impact of minimum wages on employment. Many studies show very little effect, but there is a substantial minority of studies that show the opposite. Though the general weight of evidence is on the side of minimum wage increases not being so bad, it isn't an overwhelming consensus.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-05-27/finally-an-answer-to-the-old-minimum-wage-question (https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-05-27/finally-an-answer-to-the-old-minimum-wage-question)
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Yamon on November 22, 2016, 03:43:38 PM
i mean. I don't know what to say to those publications. I generally don't trust bloomberg. And the government takes whatever economists will go along with their legislation, and then implement. And every school listed is a liberal school. Obama won the Nobel peace prize by going to war. So I can't really provide any insight on this. Very hard to fact check, but based on what I know, this seems like more crap. Boehner and mccdonnel, are lefists. And any economic plan that reid and peoloski are working on, I don't want any part of it. Do we need to look at obama's 8 year results again?

But your sources on information do shed light on a lot of things that i've been wondering about for years now.

The hoover institution has addressed this issue of polar opposite opinion on what should be fact based economics.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: I hate naggers on November 22, 2016, 05:10:17 PM
general discussion? gtfo nerds

trump 2016 end of thread
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: foonat on November 22, 2016, 05:23:17 PM
The good ol' right wing "I don't trust any of that" when presented with scientific evidence that contradicts what they believe to be true. Given that you are an inbred ape it isn't surprising that you went that route.

For blid (assuming you aren't just trying to educate the ape and are interested in the topic): I've talked to some economists about this and from what I've gathered they seem to mostly agree that a minimum wage increase is a net benefit for the economy. There are disagreements over what that amount should be ($10? $12? $15? $20?), as they all say that unemployment will increase to accompany minimum wage increases (at least in the short term). So, the question is where the increased spending power that minimum wage workers get (and others around that wage range that will also likely see an increase in wages) outweighs the resulting unemployment. You do make a good point though that economists make tons of assumptions in their models. I am no economist, so I don't fully understand many of the theoretical and methodological assumptions that are built in to the models.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Yamon on November 22, 2016, 06:08:35 PM
The good ol' right wing "I don't trust any of that" when presented with scientific evidence that contradicts what they believe to be true. Given that you are an inbred ape it isn't surprising that you went that route.

For blid (assuming you aren't just trying to educate the ape and are interested in the topic): I've talked to some economists about this and from what I've gathered they seem to mostly agree that a minimum wage increase is a net benefit for the economy. There are disagreements over what that amount should be ($10? $12? $15? $20?), as they all say that unemployment will increase to accompany minimum wage increases (at least in the short term). So, the question is where the increased spending power that minimum wage workers get (and others around that wage range that will also likely see an increase in wages) outweighs the resulting unemployment. You do make a good point though that economists make tons of assumptions in their models. I am no economist, so I don't fully understand many of the theoretical and methodological assumptions that are built in to the models.
bloomberg is scientific evidence? a crony capitalist congress is scientific evidence? Articles that fit my narrative are scientific evidence. - foonat
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: foonat on November 22, 2016, 06:25:49 PM
Obviously those articles themselves aren't scientific research articles, but they're reporting on what economists have found in their research (which constitutes the scientific evidence). Here you go, you complete fucking moron:

"In recent years there have been important developments in the academic literature on the effect of increases in the minimum wage on employment, with the weight of evidence now showing that increases in the minimum wage have had little or no negative effect on the employment of minimum-wage workers, even during times of weakness in the labor market. Research suggests that a minimum-wage increase could have a small stimulative effect on the economy as low-wage workers spend their additional earnings, raising demand and job growth, and providing some help on the jobs front."

"There is a huge literature on the impact of minimum wages on employment. Many studies show very little effect, but there is a substantial minority of studies that show the opposite. Though the general weight of evidence is on the side of minimum wage increases not being so bad, it isn't an overwhelming consensus. "

" Several meta-analyses have found that most of these studies find that minimum wages don’t have much of an effect on employment. "

Yamon The Inbred knows better though.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Yamon on November 22, 2016, 07:03:09 PM
Obviously those articles themselves aren't scientific research articles, but they're reporting on what economists have found in their research (which constitutes the scientific evidence). Here you go, you complete fucking moron:

"In recent years there have been important developments in the academic literature on the effect of increases in the minimum wage on employment, with the weight of evidence now showing that increases in the minimum wage have had little or no negative effect on the employment of minimum-wage workers, even during times of weakness in the labor market. Research suggests that a minimum-wage increase could have a small stimulative effect on the economy as low-wage workers spend their additional earnings, raising demand and job growth, and providing some help on the jobs front."

"There is a huge literature on the impact of minimum wages on employment. Many studies show very little effect, but there is a substantial minority of studies that show the opposite. Though the general weight of evidence is on the side of minimum wage increases not being so bad, it isn't an overwhelming consensus. "

" Several meta-analyses have found that most of these studies find that minimum wages don’t have much of an effect on employment. "

Yamon The Inbred knows better though.


okay, i can just as easily find tons of shit saying the contrary, will it be scientific documented evidence when you disagree with it?

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TGkfjaxFWs&t=27s#)
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on November 22, 2016, 07:42:23 PM
thomas sowell lol
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on November 22, 2016, 07:44:32 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/22/us/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-investigation.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/22/us/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-investigation.html)

President-elect Donald J. Trump repeatedly called Hillary Clinton “Crooked Hillary,” and many of his fans chanted over and over again at his campaign rallies: “Lock her up!”

But on Tuesday, Mr. Trump essentially said never mind, signaling that he has no intention of directing investigations into his former rival’s use of a private email server or the financial operations at the Clinton family’s global foundation.

“I don’t want to hurt the Clintons, I really don’t,’’ Mr. Trump said during a wide-ranging interview with The New York Times. “She went through a lot and suffered greatly in many different ways, and I am not looking to hurt them at all. The campaign was vicious.”


lmfaaaaooo trump supporters already getting cucked (https://www.emojibase.com/resources/img/emojis/apple/1f602.png)(https://www.emojibase.com/resources/img/emojis/apple/1f602.png)(https://www.emojibase.com/resources/img/emojis/apple/1f602.png) (https://www.emojibase.com/resources/img/emojis/apple/1f602.png)(https://www.emojibase.com/resources/img/emojis/apple/1f602.png) (https://www.emojibase.com/resources/img/emojis/apple/1f602.png)
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: shesycompany on November 22, 2016, 07:50:11 PM
http://assets.bwbx.io/images/iTVKK6C4YhsM/v1/-1x-1.jpg (http://assets.bwbx.io/images/iTVKK6C4YhsM/v1/-1x-1.jpg) already pasted this once... doesnt even need writing lol
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tora is a simp bitch for billionaires on November 22, 2016, 08:16:04 PM

i didn't hear anything about taxes in that video. But cutting taxes on the wealthy wouldn't hurt anything either if that was the case. As long as there is tax cuts in the middle and lower taxes on the wealthy are pretty irrelevant. This illusion of "greed" of the top 1-10% is just a narrative that is almost 100 years old to incite anger and division among common sense regulation so people don't know how anything works. And believe me, it's beyond effective. Hilary almost won.


 so.. people were so angry at the "illusion" of the greedy wealthy that their solution was to vote for a corporate tool who would continue helping keep the wealth concentrated in the 0.1%?


it's also true that the top 1-0.1% are the only ones with the power to create jobs and generate revenue.


that's because the capitalist class control the means of production. it's not a reason to boot lick them. they don't create jobs out benevolence, they do it to extract profits from the working class. they literally use labourers as a commodity to vastly enrich themselves while we get crumbs.



it's also true that the top 1-0.1% are the only ones with the power to create jobs and generate revenue.

lets take a look at the alternative

(http://i.imgur.com/9sY380M.jpg)

these look like immigrants trying to flee their country because a capitalist country is bombing them again.

Lets take a look at imperial socialism. Soviet Russia.


you think pointing at the period where Russia was the strongest in its entire history is proof of socialism failing? damn i wonder what it would have to do for it to succeed in your eyes.
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tora is a simp bitch for billionaires on November 22, 2016, 08:28:09 PM
Quote
Global capitalism is not capitalism. You think a country with sharia law can implement freedom correctly? It's a sideways argument. Just like china took steps in the right direction, they're still way behind the US. and hopefully Bangladesh will see their days of prosperity as they head in the right direction.

lmao. capitalism fails without globalism, that's its main engine. whether a country has sharia law or not doesn't mean anything regarding its economic system.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tora is a simp bitch for billionaires on November 22, 2016, 08:32:21 PM
America has no national religion. We are a secular country that separates church and state.
 
The founding fathers died almost 300 years ago what they stood for and believed means very little at this point. What matters is what the current generation wants and believes

plus they were all wealthy racist plantation owners.
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Yamon on November 22, 2016, 08:32:34 PM
well damn. I guess trump doesn't want to die. The people that back hilary are more powerful than the american government. If he was to prosecute her, then he would be challenging the status qou. And the risk of doing so, is counter-intuitive if he wants to serve the people. He can't do that when he's dead.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Yamon on November 22, 2016, 08:33:23 PM
America has no national religion. We are a secular country that separates church and state.
 
The founding fathers died almost 300 years ago what they stood for and believed means very little at this point. What matters is what the current generation wants and believes

plus they were all wealthy racist plantation owners.

yeah even though plantations were only in the south. And saying a whole race of people is racist, is racist. No one will argue that racism doesn't exist, but how many people from 300 years ago have you talked to?
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tora is a simp bitch for billionaires on November 22, 2016, 08:36:13 PM
Your aware that the founding fathers believed a black man was worth 3/5 of a white man? They lived in a different era.

An era we dont live in today.

These were people that essentially claimed right to America and said they "discovered" it despite there being a people already living there.(native indians)
The ideals and beliefs people held in the 1700s cannot be compared to the ideals and beliefs we hold today.

Sir Isaac Newton -- The Discoverer of Gravity! Sir Isaac Newton was an English mathematician and mathematician and physicist who lived from 1642-1727. The legend is that Newton discovered Gravity when he saw a falling apple while thinking about the forces of nature.

So based on this argument, gravity  isn't real?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristarchus_of_Samos


humanity has always built off of what others have done, all of human history is just flat out progress, all the way

huh, gravity isn't an idea, it's an observable phenomenon.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Yamon on November 22, 2016, 08:37:49 PM
Your aware that the founding fathers believed a black man was worth 3/5 of a white man? They lived in a different era.

An era we dont live in today.

These were people that essentially claimed right to America and said they "discovered" it despite there being a people already living there.(native indians)
The ideals and beliefs people held in the 1700s cannot be compared to the ideals and beliefs we hold today.

Sir Isaac Newton -- The Discoverer of Gravity! Sir Isaac Newton was an English mathematician and mathematician and physicist who lived from 1642-1727. The legend is that Newton discovered Gravity when he saw a falling apple while thinking about the forces of nature.

So based on this argument, gravity  isn't real?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristarchus_of_Samos


humanity has always built off of what others have done, all of human history is just flat out progress, all the way

huh, gravity isn't an idea, it's an observable phenomenon.

i don't even know what you're talking about.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tora is a simp bitch for billionaires on November 22, 2016, 08:49:04 PM
America has no national religion. We are a secular country that separates church and state.
 
The founding fathers died almost 300 years ago what they stood for and believed means very little at this point. What matters is what the current generation wants and believes

plus they were all wealthy racist plantation owners.

yeah even though plantations were only in the south. And saying a whole race of people is racist, is racist. No one will argue that racism doesn't exist, but how many people from 300 years ago have you talked to?


what are you talking about "whole race", we're specifically talking about the wealthy white rich racist plantation owners that wrote the constitution.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tora is a simp bitch for billionaires on November 22, 2016, 08:49:41 PM
Your aware that the founding fathers believed a black man was worth 3/5 of a white man? They lived in a different era.

An era we dont live in today.

These were people that essentially claimed right to America and said they "discovered" it despite there being a people already living there.(native indians)
The ideals and beliefs people held in the 1700s cannot be compared to the ideals and beliefs we hold today.

Sir Isaac Newton -- The Discoverer of Gravity! Sir Isaac Newton was an English mathematician and mathematician and physicist who lived from 1642-1727. The legend is that Newton discovered Gravity when he saw a falling apple while thinking about the forces of nature.

So based on this argument, gravity  isn't real?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristarchus_of_Samos


humanity has always built off of what others have done, all of human history is just flat out progress, all the way

huh, gravity isn't an idea, it's an observable phenomenon.

i don't even know what you're talking about.

no shit. lol.

you replied to this comment "The ideals and beliefs people held in the 1700s cannot be compared to the ideals and beliefs we hold today."

with "but Newton discovered gravity hundreds of years ago" as  something comparable. like religious beliefs or out-dated ideas are comparable to natural law.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Lambchops on November 23, 2016, 07:37:03 AM
okay, i can just as easily find tons of shit saying the contrary, will it be scientific documented evidence when you disagree with it?

(hillarious propaganda video removed)

There are so many people in the world who just have no clue about what the word "scientific" means. This is a classic example.

I actually put myself through listening to all 11 minutes of that, just to confirm that it is nothing but propaganda (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda), and contains nothing but the author's biased opinion and no science whatsoever. There was one statistic quoted from the US census prior to 1930, but then he went on to say that this meant a whole pile of unrelated claptrap was true.

The rules of science are very clear. There is no 'grey area' - that is the whole point. Science must be repeatable. You must prove it, and you must be able to describe it in such a way that somebody else can conduct an experiment based on your hypothesis and get the same results.

All genuine scientific studies of value are then "peer reviewed". That means that if you are a physicist who wants to claim a new discovery, you publish it - then all the rest of the physicists in the world who are working in the same field (i.e. your peers) have the opportunity to test it out and and decide if its actually true or not.

Although most people don't see it, the competition between scientists is absolutely fierce. For every scientist who wants to claim a new discovery, there are another 10 who are competing for the same research grants and are desperate to prove them wrong, and they will, if they can. But if something is a scientific fact, it can't be proved wrong.

You can't take 1 fact then use that to claim that something else is true. That is called conjecture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjecture).

Science is NOT:

- Stuff that is said in fancy video presentations.
- Stuff that people preface with "scentific studies show"
- Stuff that actors in white coats say.
- Stuff that genuine scientists say!... they can be corrupt or nuts or just plain wrong, like any other person.

It's only science, if its provable, repeatable and peer reviewed.

Nobody reading this post can deny it, because the scientific process is what created the computer you're using to read it. Your computer does not work based on somebody's opinion, it works according to the known laws of physics, that were discovered using the scientific process.
 
Sir Isaac Newton -- The Discoverer of Gravity! Sir Isaac Newton was an English mathematician and mathematician and physicist who lived from 1642-1727. The legend is that Newton discovered Gravity when he saw a falling apple while thinking about the forces of nature.

So based on this argument, gravity  isn't real?

... and that is exactly the sort of twisted pseudo-logic that charletans have invented and spoon fed to simpletons since the dawn of society. It quotes a fact - in this case a fact involving a scientist (ooooo it must be true!), then goes on to make an unrelated claim that pushes somebody's agenda.

I amazes me that in 2016 there are still people doughy enough to fall for this sort of garbage.

humanity has always built off of what others have done, all of human history is just flat out progress, all the way

No. People get things wrong. Entire civilizations rise and fall. Many, many people tried to fly by flapping their arms, but no matter how many people tried this exercise it never helped the invention of the aeroplane.

One thing I always observe in young people like yourself Tora, is the belief that the people of the past were somehow ignorant.

Clearly some parts of society remain every bit as ignorant today as they have ever been.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Yamon on November 23, 2016, 10:06:11 AM
okay, i can just as easily find tons of shit saying the contrary, will it be scientific documented evidence when you disagree with it?

(hillarious propaganda video removed)

There are so many people in the world who just have no clue about what the word "scientific" means. This is a classic example.

I actually put myself through listening to all 11 minutes of that, just to confirm that it is nothing but propaganda (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda), and contains nothing but the author's biased opinion and no science whatsoever. There was one statistic quoted from the US census prior to 1930, but then he went on to say that this meant a whole pile of unrelated claptrap was true.

The rules of science are very clear. There is no 'grey area' - that is the whole point. Science must be repeatable. You must prove it, and you must be able to describe it in such a way that somebody else can conduct an experiment based on your hypothesis and get the same results.

All genuine scientific studies of value are then "peer reviewed". That means that if you are a physicist who wants to claim a new discovery, you publish it - then all the rest of the physicists in the world who are working in the same field (i.e. your peers) have the opportunity to test it out and and decide if its actually true or not.

Although most people don't see it, the competition between scientists is absolutely fierce. For every scientist who wants to claim a new discovery, there are another 10 who are competing for the same research grants and are desperate to prove them wrong, and they will, if they can. But if something is a scientific fact, it can't be proved wrong.

You can't take 1 fact then use that to claim that something else is true. That is called conjecture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjecture).

Science is NOT:

- Stuff that is said in fancy video presentations.
- Stuff that people preface with "scentific studies show"
- Stuff that actors in white coats say.
- Stuff that genuine scientists say!... they can be corrupt or nuts or just plain wrong, like any other person.

It's only science, if its provable, repeatable and peer reviewed.

Nobody reading this post can deny it, because the scientific process is what created the computer you're using to read it. Your computer does not work based on somebody's opinion, it works according to the known laws of physics, that were discovered using the scientific process.
 
Sir Isaac Newton -- The Discoverer of Gravity! Sir Isaac Newton was an English mathematician and mathematician and physicist who lived from 1642-1727. The legend is that Newton discovered Gravity when he saw a falling apple while thinking about the forces of nature.

So based on this argument, gravity  isn't real?

... and that is exactly the sort of twisted pseudo-logic that charletans have invented and spoon fed to simpletons since the dawn of society. It quotes a fact - in this case a fact involving a scientist (ooooo it must be true!), then goes on to make an unrelated claim that pushes somebody's agenda.

I amazes me that in 2016 there are still people doughy enough to fall for this sort of garbage.

humanity has always built off of what others have done, all of human history is just flat out progress, all the way

No. People get things wrong. Entire civilizations rise and fall. Many, many people tried to fly by flapping their arms, but no matter how many people tried this exercise it never helped the invention of the aeroplane.

One thing I always observe in young people like yourself Tora, is the belief that the people of the past were somehow ignorant.

Clearly some parts of society remain every bit as ignorant today as they have ever been.


lambchops you are like the dumbest person on this forum. I can never read more than 3 lines of your useless drivel. And the fact that you agree with the socialists just hurts them.
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tora is a simp bitch for billionaires on November 23, 2016, 10:50:47 AM
you can't even follow your own arguments as foonat already pointed out. you get confused easily, and totally don't understand most of the shit you're pretending to understanding. you also are a vile moron who supports slave labour.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Yamon on November 23, 2016, 11:37:47 AM
you can't even follow your own arguments as foonat already pointed out. you get confused easily, and totally don't understand most of the shit you're pretending to understanding. you also are a vile moron who supports slave labour.
lol i'm a vile moron who supports slave labor. I didn't know that. Either way i'm sorry for invading the socialist safe space. Morons who read george hegel and marxist and think that they're intellectuals on economics by reading systems that have been proven faulty time and time again. Ideas are malleable, words are malleable, but reality is not malleable. Now since you've resorted to name calling and the classic liberal shenanigans of accusations with no proof, i will leave you to mourn with each other.

Enjoy your new president.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on November 23, 2016, 12:22:50 PM
marxists are anti-liberal.  mao wrote a pamphlet called "combat liberalism."  please never call a leftist a "liberal" again.  it is extremely offensive!
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tora is a simp bitch for billionaires on November 23, 2016, 02:07:28 PM


lol i'm a vile moron who supports slave labor. I didn't know that.

Quote
Businesses are making robots to replace workers, because of the minimum wage law. Their shitty government education doesn't give them the knowledge or experience to justify them making the minimum wage, so they can't work. And business are getting tired of paying unfair wages to people, so they are replacing them. But it's not regardless of wages, it's because of wages. Making 50 cents under what's required by law would literally give jobs back to people.

that's closest to advocating for slave labour you can get without outright saying "i support slave labour".

Quote
Either way i'm sorry for invading the socialist safe space. Morons who read george hegel and marxist and think that they're intellectuals on economics by reading systems that have been proven faulty time and time again.

it was never proven faulty, if you knew anything about history, attempts at socialism were always undermined by capitalist powers.
you brought up the soviet union earlier as proof of socialism's failure but you couldn't point me to another period in russian history where they were more powerful.

according to this drooling idiot actually reading and knowing facts is believing "that they're intellectuals" . lol.

Quote
Ideas are malleable, words are malleable, but reality is not malleable. Now since you've resorted to name calling and the classic liberal shenanigans of accusations with no proof, i will leave you to mourn with each other.

yea ideas are malleable but reactionaries are more stubborn to change their ideas.

Quote
Enjoy your new president.


enjoy when he does absolutely nothing you thought he was going to do.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Lambchops on November 23, 2016, 04:15:37 PM
lambchops you are like the dumbest person on this forum. I can never read more than 3 lines of your useless drivel. And the fact that you agree with the socialists just hurts them.

LOL.

For the record I think its a great pity that socialism simply does not work.

The reason it does not work is that the human race contains too many small-minded, entitled, bigoted, hypocrtical morons like yourself who have allowed its ideals to be corrupted by smarter assholes every time it has been attempted.

Its easy to be correct when your point is "doing the decent thing won't work.", you just have to be yourself. Q.E.D.
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Firesand on December 24, 2016, 02:30:08 PM
I see that Yamon is still trying to educate people on here.  In regards to the min wage discussion...  if you want a great example look at the states that just passed higher Min wage laws, then do a search for automated services that McDonalds just announced for testing and roll out to replace those jobs.  If you think min wage increases don't have a direct impact on loss of jobs, maybe you shouldn't look to the politicians propaganda and look at what the businesses that are directly impacted are doing.  When unemployment raises the cost of labor would naturally become lower as the supply of workers has increased.  By have a law/regulation in place min wage, it negates the natural process of supply/demand and restricts the ability to compete or correct that supply.   

Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tora is a simp bitch for billionaires on December 25, 2016, 12:17:46 AM
you can't even follow your own arguments as foonat already pointed out. you get confused easily, and totally don't understand most of the shit you're pretending to understanding. you also are a vile moron who supports slave labour.
lol i'm a vile moron who supports slave labor. I didn't know that. Either way i'm sorry for invading the socialist safe space. Morons who read george hegel and marxist and think that they're intellectuals on economics by reading systems that have been proven faulty time and time again. Ideas are malleable, words are malleable, but reality is not malleable. Now since you've resorted to name calling and the classic liberal shenanigans of accusations with no proof, i will leave you to mourn with each other.

Enjoy your new president.


fucking retard lol. you know nothing about hegel or marx, you haven't read a single word of their works . also a  forum where anyone and everyone can sign up hardly qualifies as a "safe space" you useless goof.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tora is a simp bitch for billionaires on December 25, 2016, 12:23:16 AM
I see that Yamon is still trying to educate people on here.  In regards to the min wage discussion...  if you want a great example look at the states that just passed higher Min wage laws, then do a search for automated services that McDonalds just announced for testing and roll out to replace those jobs.  If you think min wage increases don't have a direct impact on loss of jobs, maybe you shouldn't look to the politicians propaganda and look at what the businesses that are directly impacted are doing.  When unemployment raises the cost of labor would naturally become lower as the supply of workers has increased.  By have a law/regulation in place min wage, it negates the natural process of supply/demand and restricts the ability to compete or correct that supply.   





this garbage was barely coherent, but it appears to me reminiscent of the useless liberal nonsense bootlickers too stupid to have any class consciousness have parroted for decades.
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Firesand on December 25, 2016, 03:33:44 PM
Interesting accessment you gathered there.  I'm not surprised by it as you clearly were confused by Yamon's viewpoints.  If you want to bring up class consciousness in relation to minium wage then do so.  I was obviously discussing minium wage based on economics. 

Yet you yourself have already proved that you believe in separating people into a class system by simply labeling people who disagree with you as idiots, stupid, or there opinions don't matter... much like most of the people here do. 
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tora is a simp bitch for billionaires on December 25, 2016, 05:42:45 PM
There was nothing confusing about what Yamon said , he's a complete drooling moron. I don't even know why you're talking like he laid down some brilliant analysis, kid got rekt and ran off like a little baby but not before grasping at last ditch effort to spew reactionary buzz words like "safe space", in regards to a public forum mind you.

 Your "minimum wage based on economics" horseshit is the basic narrative of the capitalist class. It's largely propaganda. You're talking about automation replacing workers (which has already been happening forever) as if it wasn't going to happen anyways regardless of what the minimum wage is. It's in the capitalists' interests to accumulate as much profit as possible. If a capitalist can replace a worker with a machine that would make him more money and give him more convenience, even if that worker only earns 7 dollars an hour, it'll happen, and has happened.
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: chayliss on December 26, 2016, 01:32:19 AM
clickbait

fuck you

no mention of adam in your post
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: RipE[Eur0] on December 26, 2016, 09:52:44 AM
i just give u a free tip yanks. dont copy what we do here in the eurosocialistland.
i hope trump will start some kinda revolution in da western world together after BREXIT.

Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Firesand on December 26, 2016, 12:34:53 PM
As long as there has been man involved in any system of government the principle of supply and demand exists.  You can't get around it.  Automation happens when technology becomes cheaper than labor.  So how would increasing min wage not support the premise of job loss?  It's not propaganda it's economics.  Even in a system of socialism it's the same you can just substitute money into whatever medium allows more food on the table.  Capitalism isn't the problem, corruption of mankind is. 
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tora is a simp bitch for billionaires on December 26, 2016, 01:27:42 PM
 if some multi-billion dollar corporation like McDonalds wants to phase out workers with automation because they're too horrible to pay a livable wage to the people that made the company the financial success it is today, that's when workers need to fight for better conditions. i.e. protesting for better wages, or better yet , seizing the means of production and hanging the billionaire scum in the street.
the workers should not accept poverty wages, especially from a company making billions.
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Firesand on December 26, 2016, 01:58:30 PM
Your answer is to encourage chaos?  Interesting thought process.  You do realize that once the laborers take over they will still have to run the company, which means orginazation, structure, and leadership thus creating the same environment of corruption that exsisted previously.  While labor and the cost of labor affects profits, it most definitely isn't the direct result in a business success.  In a global market how does this company provide longevity to its labor force when it now has higher wages than the competition?  How does this company keep the upper management when a different company offers to pay the "leaders of the revolt" double what they are making now? 

In your ideal system of government... when has it ever worked outside of the books you have read and the theory you have in your head?  The problem with your ideal system is the disconnect from reality.  You have no answers on how to successfully implentment your "ideals" when people don't want to conform to them without using oppression and corruption and still be competitive in the world.  Without that it is only a short term system lacking in the long game and will get crushed.




Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tora is a simp bitch for billionaires on December 26, 2016, 05:53:00 PM
When you believe expelling the oppressors is "encouraging chaos", that says a lot about your own thought process and where you think you stand in class hierarchy.

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You do realize that once the laborers take over they will still have to run the company, which means orginazation, structure, and leadership thus creating the same environment of corruption that exsisted previously.
Outside of a capitalist society, if you can imagine, that doesn't value profit over everything, doesn't treat the rich as gods and the poor as subhuman - you know that same attitude that breeds corruption to begin with -  perhaps we all become much less corruptible.


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In a global market how does this company provide longevity to its labor force when it now has higher wages than the competition?
When have workers ever been secure in employment? Capitalists have always treated them as disposable commodities

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In your ideal system of government... when has it ever worked outside of the books you have read and the theory you have in your head?  The problem with your ideal system is the disconnect from reality.  You have no answers on how to successfully implentment your "ideals" when people don't want to conform to them without using oppression and corruption and still be competitive in the world.  Without that it is only a short term system lacking in the long game and will get crushed.

Worker cooperatives have been proven to be successful over and over again, ever since Robert Owen in the early 19th century.
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Firesand on December 26, 2016, 08:10:04 PM
Unfortunately, corruption has been around well before capitalism and it is there even in the most successful coops.  I have personal experience involving true cooperatives and I belong to two currently (amalgamated sugar company and Valley Wide Coop).  I utilize a member owned financial institution for my business.  (Farm credit service system).   

While these cooperatives have been successful, many others have failed just like corporations. Internal politics always come into play and human nature has always been the enemy of an equal system.  I do not believe that violence has a role in that type of system, nor can it be used to take away from a capitalist system to be made into a collective system.  I am most definitely not a Marxist as I feel that they lacked the understanding of moral principles and the importance that they have in a government and economic society. 

Workers in a cooperative are just as likely to go bankrupt as corporations.  My point in longevity is the means you used to accomplish your ideal system.  The vast majority of Marxist idealists are only theorist wishing and talking about what could happen.  The knowledge of past societies that have practiced said "ideals" have either failed entirely, or as I said previously are a short term system that gets crushed in the long term because of the lack of moral principles.  When workers have no hope of a better future he ceases to be an asset to the collective whole.

Again the issue here is the implementation of said system.  Without moral principles being taught, human nature will always be lacking and corruption will always take place.  You can't expect a human being to be satisfied with being equal when it is natural for us to judge others.  As I have said before, your ideal concept doesn't exist nor will it ever. 

Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tora is a simp bitch for billionaires on December 26, 2016, 11:16:19 PM
"muh human nature" is just a shitty liberal argument parroted by unthinking dimwits that believe they're anthropologists, yet no real anthropologist would actually agree with them.

worker co-ops are generally superior to regular businesses. better wages, hours and overall working conditions. i mean this is hardly surprising, when the capitalist is eliminated from the workplace you've eliminated conflicting interests with the workers and now you've only got people with equal interests and thus a less hostile and fairer work environment. of course they still are working in a capitalist society and susceptible to its flaws. worker co-ops give only a glimpse of what work under a socialist society could be.

Marxism is hardly idealist, it's an actual science. Marx wrote 1000 pages of economics and was one of the more important classical economists because he had greater knowledge of early industrial capitalism than anyone of his time. No your liberalism is what is idealist.



Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Firesand on December 26, 2016, 11:56:37 PM
You can not have corruption without the human aspect period.  Also being in a cooperative does not eliminate conflict of interests.  How to grow/expand/run the cooperative creates the same hostile environment, especially in years where there aren't profits due to global surpluses.  In essence they have the exact same experiences as a capitalist run business. 

You act as though human behavior is a non factor... yet the very basis of your entire argument is based on human behavior... your entire premise assumes that humans want to be equal does it not?  You can worship Marx if you want to yet his ideas do not have a good track record when they have been implemented.   
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tora is a simp bitch for billionaires on December 27, 2016, 10:47:50 AM
you keep talking about how human nature is against egalitarianism like some drooling idiot, and neither concepts you have a firm grasp on.
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Firesand on December 28, 2016, 12:22:05 PM
Yet you dismiss it knowing full well that human behavior is the biggest reason why all attempts of a government implementing ideas from Marx have utterly failed.  I have a very firm grasp of how human behavior, culture, and environment play a role in the building up or tearing down governments or economic societies. 

The reason why your ideal system fails is because it is based on the assumption or theory that the only way for a company to increase profit is through exploiting labor.  This has been proven wrong so many times it has actually moved Marxism from a science to a pseudoscience.  His theories have failed being implemented many times and his argument of social revolution that would occur hasn't in more advanced capitalist societies that understood that his theory was complete bullshit. 

The only time his theory has actually came to being even close to working is the formation of cooperatives that typically function using a mix of his ideas with capitalist ideas.  Like I said I belong to a cooperative (amalgamated sugar company) which did just what Marx said would happen.  Being a part of the buyout and working with my peers I can tell you that Marx idea that exploitation of works to extract profit is total and complete bullshit.  Exploitation continues in the coop structure, oppression continues, and the ability to determine what is "equal" among members would be the equivalent of a union negotiating with a company. 

Not only do I understand the theory of Marxism I have also put my mouth and pocket book in actually implementing it.  Point blank his theories are based on antiquated knowledge and science that no longer even applies as the basic assumptions he used in those theories are wrong.  Even fellow marxists can't even agree on those assumptions that he used.  Talking to you is the equivalent of talking to someone who is convinced the world is flat and is pissed off because someone not only has discovered the world is round but has actually sailed it.
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tora is a simp bitch for billionaires on December 28, 2016, 02:04:15 PM
There's no implementing Marx's ideas into government as Marx never wrote about how a government should function. There were only Lenin's and Mao's interpretations, not Marx himself.



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The reason why your ideal system fails is because it is based on the assumption or theory that the only way for a company to increase profit is through exploiting labor.  This has been proven wrong so many times it has actually moved Marxism from a science to a pseudoscience.

How was that ever proven wrong? It's more accurate than ever.
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Firesand on December 28, 2016, 03:13:47 PM
False, Karl Marx, believed that another class of people would help the working class with there revolution which is how we even got communision introduced.  He wrote with Engel's the manifesto.  You are delirious if you believe that Karl Marx didn't have a political agenda or a role in how his economic ideas would play out in a functioning government. 

Marx premise was everything involved with the production of a product less wages was profit.  Therefore the only way one could have a surplus/profit would be by decreasing wages.  This is totally false as you can take the lowering of costs and maintaining a steady wage and still see lower profits.  His economic approach only takes into account systemic company risks and completely disregards market risk, or factors that said company can't control.  A company can not control the weather, a government/group of controlling companies flooding the market with supplies destroying companies "profit" (example OPEC). 

Karl Marx even wrote on human nature and its role in society.  For someone who claims they are a classical Marxist your knowledge on this is very shallow.  Hell Karl Marx formed many of his ideas from Adam Smith and other capitalist who warned about the same damn thing he warned about which happened in Russia!  Like I said everyone who has tried to implement his ideas to an entire class have failed miserable.  Does Marx have solid thoughts behind labor hell yes he does, but his idea of a social revolution as the only path to fix it is horseshit, hence unions.  I mean you do realize that most economists understand some of the value that Karl Marx had, but they also understand that his methods were only theory's that just were wrong.
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tora is a simp bitch for billionaires on December 28, 2016, 06:45:25 PM
No. He never wrote on ways government should work. Again, there have only been interpretations from others after his death.

His masterwork Capital damned the bourgeoisie class, a class he was a part of, his ideas threw him into poverty and yet he never stopped publishing his works, despite his situation. Seems like his "political agenda" was actually giving a fuck about the majority of the populace, the working classes, of all nations.

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Marx premise was everything involved with the production of a product less wages was profit.  Therefore the only way one could have a surplus/profit would be by decreasing wages.

Basically Marx believed capitalists did not give workers the value they actually produced, capitalists stole it in surplus value. This is pretty much unavoidable since if capitalists actually gave workers their fair share, the capitalist class would cease to exist as all their wealth is produced by the worker. This is true, it's why workers get paid wages and capitalists have inordinate amounts of wealth, despite not producing anything.

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This is totally false as you can take the lowering of costs and maintaining a steady wage and still see lower profits.

This is just an attribute of a shitty business and not a rebuttal to anything Marx wrote.

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His economic approach only takes into account systemic company risks and completely disregards market risk, or factors that said company can't control.  A company can not control the weather, a government/group of controlling companies flooding the market with supplies destroying companies "profit" (example OPEC)

Marx lived through several of capitalism's inherent recessions and wrote about capitalists competing with other capitalists, so yea he knew these things.

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Hell Karl Marx formed many of his ideas from Adam Smith

Yeah he read The Wealth of Nations and other bourgie economists. This is partly why he understood capitalism so well. He obliterated many of Smith's arguments and developed a better, more concise labour theory of value than Smith did.


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hence unions

Unions haven't helped improved overall working conditions adequately if at all, unions sure as shit aren't helping working class in the third world. This is mainly because of the push back from capitalists, hence why capitalists and capitalism need to go if workers everywhere are ever going to be truly free.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on December 28, 2016, 06:51:36 PM
I see that Yamon is still trying to educate people on here.  In regards to the min wage discussion...  if you want a great example look at the states that just passed higher Min wage laws, then do a search for automated services that McDonalds just announced for testing and roll out to replace those jobs.  If you think min wage increases don't have a direct impact on loss of jobs, maybe you shouldn't look to the politicians propaganda and look at what the businesses that are directly impacted are doing.  When unemployment raises the cost of labor would naturally become lower as the supply of workers has increased.  By have a law/regulation in place min wage, it negates the natural process of supply/demand and restricts the ability to compete or correct that supply.   



You are a Mormon retard.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on December 28, 2016, 07:28:34 PM
Interesting accessment you gathered there.  I'm not surprised by it as you clearly were confused by Yamon's viewpoints.  If you want to bring up class consciousness in relation to minium wage then do so.  I was obviously discussing minium wage based on economics. 

Yet you yourself have already proved that you believe in separating people into a class system by simply labeling people who disagree with you as idiots, stupid, or there opinions don't matter... much like most of the people here do. 

Class is real you retard.
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on December 28, 2016, 07:36:53 PM
lol i forgot that this dude is a farmer which makes him one of the biggest government teat suckers in the country
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: shesycompany on December 28, 2016, 08:34:21 PM
wb fuckboi!
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Firesand on December 28, 2016, 10:03:35 PM
Karl Marx wrote the communist manifesto which is a political document which you completely ignored in my last comment.  He teamed up with Engels which came from wealth and Engels published 2 of Marx books from his notes after his death.  Marx came from nothing and ended with nothing.  His accomplishments are all theory based which others failed when trying to actually implement them. His work will always fail because point blank humans are going to always fold to greed/curroption/power whatever you want to put there because it is inherent in there behavior.  Karl Marx knew this which is why he addressed human nature in one of his first works. 

Shitty business... what a complete sell out you are when you actually have to discuss real life situations that occur to all businesses period.  You are a total fake.  Karl Marx was at a time when globalization was just starting.  The man never even talked about mass inflation, devaluing of currency, nor any of the many ways business suffer and have no control over.  He was valued in his time until no one could successful do what he wanted.  Yet years later you still worship him yet you bash the founding fathers of America who only lived 50 plus years earlier saying they are out dated. 

Interesting the the founding fathers of a country who used Adam Smith as there economic engine has a country that is still around, yet I see no country that is successful in implementing Karl Marx. 

The class system is real yes, but so is the real opportunity that anyone has (within certain countries) a chance to change there class and become wealthy.  That is the American dream having that opportunity.  This is not a popular opinion on this specific board, yet most of the posters here have not done much in the last 10 years of there life.

Yes I am a Mormon, which is why I take interest in this topic as Mormons tried to live in a society just like Marx wanted... it failed too for the same reasons, the human behavior.  Glad you remembered me.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on December 28, 2016, 10:11:41 PM
Karl Marx wrote the communist manifesto which is a political document which you completely ignored in my last comment.  He teamed up with Engels which came from wealth and Engels published 2 of Marx books from his notes after his death.  Marx came from nothing and ended with nothing.  His accomplishments are all theory based which others failed when trying to actually implement them. His work will always fail because point blank humans are going to always fold to greed/curroption/power whatever you want to put there because it is inherent in there behavior.  Karl Marx knew this which is why he addressed human nature in one of his first works. 

Shitty business... what a complete sell out you are when you actually have to discuss real life situations that occur to all businesses period.  You are a total fake.  Karl Marx was at a time when globalization was just starting.  The man never even talked about mass inflation, devaluing of currency, nor any of the many ways business suffer and have no control over.  He was valued in his time until no one could successful do what he wanted.  Yet years later you still worship him yet you bash the founding fathers of America who only lived 50 plus years earlier saying they are out dated. 

Interesting the the founding fathers of a country who used Adam Smith as there economic engine has a country that is still around, yet I see no country that is successful in implementing Karl Marx. 

The class system is real yes, but so is the real opportunity that anyone has (within certain countries) a chance to change there class and become wealthy.  That is the American dream having that opportunity.  This is not a popular opinion on this specific board, yet most of the posters here have not done much in the last 10 years of there life.

Yes I am a Mormon, which is why I take interest in this topic as Mormons tried to live in a society just like Marx wanted... it failed too for the same reasons, the human behavior.  Glad you remembered me.

Retard.
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Firesand on December 28, 2016, 10:28:36 PM
I see how you have gotten 2000 posts... amazing rebuttals.  I mean you should teach a class on how to do it, even charge a fee, just make sure to give it all back to the members you teach.
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tora is a simp bitch for billionaires on December 28, 2016, 10:33:51 PM
The Communist Manifesto is something Marx wrote in his 20s , and yea it was mostly Marx who wrote it, Engels did very little. Engels was more involved in Capital than he was the Manifesto. Marx's masterwork Capital is much more important to understanding Marx's theories, which you haven't read at all. You're another idiot who's read 5 pages the Manifesto and thinks he's an expert on Marx, I see these liberals all the time. Also Marx had a much better grasp on "human nature" than modern liberals do.

Also Adam Smith had many of his ideas ignored, particularly his labour theory of value and his critiques on joint stock companies. Smith would not even like the system we live in today in the slightest.
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Firesand on December 28, 2016, 11:37:56 PM
I am not an expert in Marx, I know enough about him and his works to have a conversation about him.  I do know enough and have participated in enough cooperatives that I respect the theory he was trying to accomplish.  I do not like people who pretend that Marx did not have a profound influence on many systems that have failed utterly by trying to distance him to what was trying to be accomplished.  I also dislike Marxists who do not live in reality and actually try to work with capitalists to find a better way.  Both systems have flaws, yet one system has found success in many ways while the other hasn't.  The Soviet Union is one of the biggest failures that originated from Karl Marx works.  Any Marxist who deny's that is only making excuses because they don't want that failure to be on Marx.  The sad reality is Marx even stated that a socialst society would eventually fail and go back to barbarism. 

Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tora is a simp bitch for billionaires on December 29, 2016, 09:51:31 AM
Russia, for example, was never more powerful in its entire history, than during the USSR era. So you'll to define fail. Then prove it failed due to its "socialist" policies and not outside influence from western powers. As well, just because Marx was an influence behind this hardly means he would have agreed with everyone that interpreted his ideas into politics.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tk[as] on December 30, 2016, 12:09:25 PM
Technology is advancing every day.. machines have been and will continue to replace human bodies in the work force until technology gets to the point where there are literally no jobs a machine can't do. Right now 1% of the U.s. Population holds over 50% of the nation's wealth. The middle class is shrinking every year, those in poverty grow every year, and the wealth the top 1% increases every year. Its not sustainable.  If the trend continues, there will be another catastrophic economic collapse. I'm not saying increasing the minimum wage is the permanent fix, but it is a temporary bandaid that will keep our economy "stable" until a more permanent solution comes along, or an inevitable collapse.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tk[as] on December 30, 2016, 12:12:14 PM
Our countries economy was arguably the strongest in the late 60s. If you account for inflation their minimum wage was roughly $11 an hour... and skilled trades/professions (particularly blue collared jobs) -after accounting for inflation - were higher as well
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tora is a simp bitch for billionaires on December 30, 2016, 05:34:55 PM
Technology is advancing every day.. machines have been and will continue to replace human bodies in the work force until technology gets to the point where there are literally no jobs a machine can't do. Right now 1% of the U.s. Population holds over 50% of the nation's wealth. The middle class is shrinking every year, those in poverty grow every year, and the wealth the top 1% increases every year. Its not sustainable.  If the trend continues, there will be another catastrophic economic collapse. I'm not saying increasing the minimum wage is the permanent fix, but it is a temporary bandaid that will keep our economy "stable" until a more permanent solution comes along, or an inevitable collapse.

some type of basic income will probably be implemented as a last ditch effort to keep capitalism alive. although there's way too much opposition towards it, particularly in the usa, because of some antiquated ideas of how "people must work to survive!". implying if people got  a basic income they wouldn't work. the reality is, work is more enjoyable when you aren't forced to do it and aren't fearful of losing your job and being thrown into poverty.
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on December 31, 2016, 10:09:16 AM
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on December 31, 2016, 10:11:46 AM
Technology is advancing every day.. machines have been and will continue to replace human bodies in the work force until technology gets to the point where there are literally no jobs a machine can't do. Right now 1% of the U.s. Population holds over 50% of the nation's wealth. The middle class is shrinking every year, those in poverty grow every year, and the wealth the top 1% increases every year. Its not sustainable.  If the trend continues, there will be another catastrophic economic collapse. I'm not saying increasing the minimum wage is the permanent fix, but it is a temporary bandaid that will keep our economy "stable" until a more permanent solution comes along, or an inevitable collapse.

some type of basic income will probably be implemented as a last ditch effort to keep capitalism alive. although there's way too much opposition towards it, particularly in the usa, because of some antiquated ideas of how "people must work to survive!". implying if people got  a basic income they wouldn't work. the reality is, work is more enjoyable when you aren't forced to do it and aren't fearful of losing your job and being thrown into poverty.

Guaranteed basic income will definitely happen in the next 50 years or there will be a bloody revolution. The late capitalist economy by design creates millions of unemployable people with no prospects, better give them free money or they're going to all go on shooting sprees/join ISIS/start a fascist or communist revolution.

Then again the ruling class is incredibly stupid and deranged and arrogant so who knows.
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Firesand on December 31, 2016, 11:59:02 AM
The H-2A labor rates just came out for the states.  $11.66 per hour with transportation there and back, housing, and a vehicle to use on the job where I live.  Min wage is under $8 but it doesn't matter as the supply and demand for labor merits the $11.66 easily. 

It is laughable that anti capitalists truly believe that the concept of a ruling class would go away if capitalism went away.  It just changes hands but it will always be in the hands of a smaller percent. 

The failure of the USSR... was a failure of the Marxist economics policies.  Regardless if you want to say it was ochrastrated by western operatives or not.  I say this because the collapse happened in our lifetime, it was the smaller counties that revoluted as they were no longer being treated as equal partners. (Obviously this is shorted as there is hundred of books written on it.). Putin himself places the blame on Lenin and how he implemented things.  In the end anti-capitalist or not, that collapse resulted in the worst economic time in there entire history.  The USSR removed the ability of free thinking individuals that threatened or went against them.  They oppressed and ruled there comrades with fear.  It was the exact thing that Marx predicted would happen within that type of society.  That it would fail and return back to barbarism.  Marxisright what would you contribute to the USSR failing?  If it was the west meddling then it would be exactly what I said at the beginning about the ability of humans being corruptible and any system that is equal will always fail because it is the inability of humans to control there wants and desires.  If they could control them then a system that is equal would naturally be the best system... but utopia doesn't exist in the real world.

If you think about labor as supply and demand, the 50's-60's would be after WW2 and there was a huge loss of life throughout the world.  So logically speaking if you want to use the 60's in regards to min wage it would completely support what I was saying.  This is one of the biggest reasons China uses population control due to the work force.  When population gets to the point where the basic needs (food, shelter, water) are unattainable there has always been riots/revolution/war.  This is another reason why china manipulates its currency and controls the prices of food in there country. 

 
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on December 31, 2016, 12:40:33 PM
The H-2A labor rates just came out for the states.  $11.66 per hour with transportation there and back, housing, and a vehicle to use on the job where I live.  Min wage is under $8 but it doesn't matter as the supply and demand for labor merits the $11.66 easily. 

It is laughable that anti capitalists truly believe that the concept of a ruling class would go away if capitalism went away.  It just changes hands but it will always be in the hands of a smaller percent. 

The failure of the USSR... was a failure of the Marxist economics policies.  Regardless if you want to say it was ochrastrated by western operatives or not.  I say this because the collapse happened in our lifetime, it was the smaller counties that revoluted as they were no longer being treated as equal partners. (Obviously this is shorted as there is hundred of books written on it.). Putin himself places the blame on Lenin and how he implemented things.  In the end anti-capitalist or not, that collapse resulted in the worst economic time in there entire history.  The USSR removed the ability of free thinking individuals that threatened or went against them.  They oppressed and ruled there comrades with fear.  It was the exact thing that Marx predicted would happen within that type of society.  That it would fail and return back to barbarism.  Marxisright what would you contribute to the USSR failing?  If it was the west meddling then it would be exactly what I said at the beginning about the ability of humans being corruptible and any system that is equal will always fail because it is the inability of humans to control there wants and desires.  If they could control them then a system that is equal would naturally be the best system... but utopia doesn't exist in the real world.

If you think about labor as supply and demand, the 50's-60's would be after WW2 and there was a huge loss of life throughout the world.  So logically speaking if you want to use the 60's in regards to min wage it would completely support what I was saying.  This is one of the biggest reasons China uses population control due to the work force.  When population gets to the point where the basic needs (food, shelter, water) are unattainable there has always been riots/revolution/war.  This is another reason why china manipulates its currency and controls the prices of food in there country. 

 

You are insanely fucking stupid.
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tora is a simp bitch for billionaires on December 31, 2016, 10:08:19 PM
Yea it was a shit post and I'm getting tired of his ridiculous liberalism.
The USSR took the obliterated post-world war 1 economy and was transformed into superpower. Russia had never been so powerful in its history.
They opened schools up to women, and made educational access easier for the poor. This at a time, when American schools were racially segregated.
The Soviets were the first ever to launch an artificial satellite into orbit, first to put a human in space, first EVA spacewalk, etc etc etc.
So you'll have to describe better your definition of fail.

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Putin himself places the blame on Lenin and how he implemented things.
Who knows if there is any truth to this, but it wouldn't be surprising. Putin is a capitalist pig dog.




Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Yamon on September 14, 2017, 09:14:32 AM
You socialists need to learn how to self teach.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on September 15, 2017, 08:41:32 PM
You socialists need to learn how to self teach.

take your medication
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: RipE[Eur0] on September 29, 2017, 04:07:27 PM
you keep talking about how human nature is against egalitarianism like some drooling idiot, and neither concepts you have a firm grasp on.
"muh human nature" is just a shitty liberal argument parroted by unthinking dimwits that believe they're anthropologists, yet no real anthropologist would actually agree with them.

worker co-ops are generally superior to regular businesses. better wages, hours and overall working conditions. i mean this is hardly surprising, when the capitalist is eliminated from the workplace you've eliminated conflicting interests with the workers and now you've only got people with equal interests and thus a less hostile and fairer work environment. of course they still are working in a capitalist society and susceptible to its flaws. worker co-ops give only a glimpse of what work under a socialist society could be.

Marxism is hardly idealist, it's an actual science. Marx wrote 1000 pages of economics and was one of the more important classical economists because he had greater knowledge of early industrial capitalism than anyone of his time. No your liberalism is what is idealist.






jon. u r so fucking stupid human being that i have no words to say it. u r scum. filth of earth.
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tora is a simp bitch for billionaires on September 29, 2017, 04:19:11 PM
 "u r scum. filth of earth." - guy who wants a holocaust against Muslims and black people.
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: RipE[Eur0] on September 29, 2017, 04:30:12 PM
those r ur words. not mine. dont put words in my mouth. i never have said that. u dont know a shit about holocaust, or european history whatsoever.

and yes. i mainly want muslims to stay the fuck outta western societies and most definitely out of our beautiful and safe Finland. i cant stand them poisoning our peaceful nations. if they dont stay away, i hope they die and i will kill them if needed. u can call that a massacre or holocaust if u wish. there is millions of ppl here in the old continent who think just like i do and we will act eventually. it means blood.

in the near future, yes, if this shit continues, i will be shooting muslims. i will pick them, just cus of their color of skin, or their religion. but before that, i will kill the socialists, left-wing faggots(dreaming faggots) who think they can make 3rd world country scum actually part of our high standarded post-tech countries. ill kill the faggots who have let those savages in here. ill kill the ppl who have voted such politicians in to the parlament. AFTER. ive killed the leftist ppl and their voters. then i will kick the muslims/niggers/arabs out of this country. if they dont go out peacefully when told so. yes. i will fucking kill them among with many other nationalist real european white ppl.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tora is a simp bitch for billionaires on September 29, 2017, 04:44:52 PM
those r ur words. not mine. dont put words in my mouth. i never have said that. u dont know a shit about holocaust, or european history whatsoever.

and yes. i mainly want muslims to stay the fuck outta western societies and most definitely out of our beautiful and safe Finland. i cant stand them poisoning our peaceful nations. if they dont stay away, i hope they die and i will kill them if needed. u can call that a massacre or holocaust if u wish. there is millions of ppl here in the old continent who think just like i do and we will act eventually. it means blood.

in the near future, yes, if this shit continues, i will be shooting muslims. i will pick them, just cus of their color of skin, or their religion. but before that, i will kill the socialists, left-wing faggots(dreaming faggots) who think they can make 3rd world country scum actually part of our high standarded post-tech countries. ill kill the faggots who have let those savages in here. ill kill the ppl who have voted such politicians in to the parlament. AFTER. ive killed the leftist ppl and their voters. then i will kick the muslims/niggers/arabs out of this country. if they dont go out peacefully when told so. yes. i will fucking kill them among with many other nationalist real european white ppl.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on September 29, 2017, 05:15:41 PM
Uhhh.  Thinking about banning Ripe from the forums.

edit: Gave Ripe a 100% warning.  The warning level gradually lowers over time and he will be muted until it wears down below 50%.  That is for now, likely will make it permanent.  Really that post is perhaps a matter for the police, ffs, like he's probably full of shit but it seems like he needs to be on a terror watch list or something.
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tora is a simp bitch for billionaires on September 29, 2017, 05:30:39 PM
i wonder if he's on the same meds as yamon.
Title: Re: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on September 29, 2017, 06:34:26 PM
Uhhh.  Thinking about banning Ripe from the forums.

edit: Gave Ripe a 100% warning.  The warning level gradually lowers over time and he will be muted until it wears down below 50%.  That is for now, likely will make it permanent.  Really that post is perhaps a matter for the police, ffs, like he's probably full of shit but it seems like he needs to be on a terror watch list or something.

Get Finnish Antifa to find out where he lives.
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: tora is a simp bitch for billionaires on September 29, 2017, 07:47:11 PM
"don't put words in my mouth i never said that... kill all niggers and muslims tho"
Title: Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on September 29, 2017, 08:53:13 PM
this thread has the best thread title in forums history maybe