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General Discussion / Warcraft film
« Last post by Muz on November 06, 2018, 10:35:10 AM »
Any of you has seen this film?
Server.War2.ru / Re: Lets talk combat edition, spells a and balance!
« Last post by Cel on November 06, 2018, 10:34:39 AM »
Yes we could change invisibility cost/effectiveness though even if invisibility is strong I think most of the other spells are in favor of dks.
Haste > Slow (buffing is easier than de-buffing)
Coil > Fireball
Unholy armor > FlameShield (Dk bombs are pretty devastating)
The only spell that dk have that sucks is Skeletons and yeah it could use a slight buff and I mentioned but I wouldn't want to change any of these first
Invis is strong and can change the outcome of a game it is true, but it is not like we never see hasted dks able to do a similar job or even better in some occasions.

I am not saying nerfing haste or  invisibility is out of the question though, the way I see it, it is a minor balance issue compared to lust / heal.

I think even with a double mana cost increase on lust, ogre mages will still be way better than paladins lust still will be > to heal because of the ease of use, runes also will be > to exorcism which is fine I think because it wont be that much better, humans do not have to play exactly the same and have the same strength/weaknesses than orc for the game to be balanced.

I would advocate we just try lust / heal changes and see where we have to go from there as I said the more subtle the changes the better we are off when is comes to these things really.
Small steps to make the game even closer to perfection than it is without denaturing it.

Right now as it is we barely ever see a church built for humans if you remove the altar of storm and the church from the available buildings which is very much doable in a custom map it is not like the unbalances are crazy between the two races it is in fact very minimal and I would even argue some player will still prefer running the orcs in that situation.

All the other changes I suggested that are not heal/lust are examples of things we could do from there in the future, but if we are to balance things one day I would advocate doing that using very small steps to  try and change the minimum we can at every step of the way  :peon:.

Server.War2.ru / Re: Lets talk combat edition, spells a and balance!
« Last post by Lambchops on November 06, 2018, 07:29:07 AM »
Best way to balance game would be to give knights a consistent speed upgrade instead of healing.

Actually I think giving knights haste instead of heal could be very interesting.
Do hasted knights beat lusted ogres?

Invis would be op if lust is nerfed.


Server.War2.ru / Re: Lets talk combat edition, spells a and balance!
« Last post by Lambchops on November 06, 2018, 04:51:27 AM »
With the exception of lust, humans are way OP already.

Humans are >= orcs in almost everything else. It's just that lust is so massively OP that it cancels out all the rest.

Cases can be made for all sorts of tweaks, I would just like to see an increase in lust MP cost (maybe double?), and a BIG decrease in invis duration.

The nature of invis can totally affect the way some maps are played, and 99% of the time it's just a dirty trick sneak rape attack spell. Invis should be absolute maximum 10 seconds, probably better about 6-8 seconds.
Server.War2.ru / Re: Lets talk combat edition, spells a and balance!
« Last post by woofy on November 05, 2018, 02:38:19 PM »
The only thing that needs to be changed is lust-mana regeneration, it should definitely be slower. 
Server.War2.ru / Re: Lets talk combat edition, spells a and balance!
« Last post by Zelya on November 05, 2018, 05:52:42 AM »
Do you still need mana cost address?

This is for US version (starting from 004A1C3C). Please see the image in attachment.
Server.War2.ru / Re: FRIENDS HUM/ORC vs HUM/ORC | November 3d @ 4 pm est
« Last post by Eur0trash on November 05, 2018, 05:15:49 AM »

there is most of the games. one game my comp crashed and i kinda got more n more drunkz0red later so some games missing unfortunately the last ones which were ko0lest :D
Server.War2.ru / Re: FRIENDS HUM/ORC vs HUM/ORC | November 3d @ 4 pm est
« Last post by KagaN on November 05, 2018, 01:50:49 AM »
my replays: https://cloud.mail.ru/public/NKZH/kaJrNzGMP

plus warvid of game: droid/kerl (pb?) vs jesk/ripe

General Discussion / Re: massive diarrhea spot on the earth
« Last post by individualism results in littering on November 04, 2018, 09:35:44 PM »
 diarrhea is very apt description of cancer usa, as it's not like a regular turd that floats in its own bowl, but splatters all over (imperialism) and excretes its cultural social disease everywhere.
Server.War2.ru / Re: Lets talk combat edition, spells a and balance!
« Last post by Cel on November 04, 2018, 06:45:00 PM »
I have only one big issue with the solution you are proposing eleison it is that it changes the game mechanics and units/spells logic wise.
I kinda don't want people to think they are watching a different game when they see the game on our streams.

I believe we can try balancing what we have instead of changing the spirit / logic of the game altogether. Paladins loosing heal and having a haste instead would definitely not look/feel like warcraft 2 anymore for me and all the nostalgia driven players out there.

Lets talk about what we see is the real issue here before we jump into solutions here is how I see the picture:

The way I see it the real problem for the in game balance as it is right now is Lust being a total no-brainer.

Lust is so powerful and cheap that most players do not think about whether they should get it or not anymore, they will rush for it, even if sometimes they would have been able to win faster by just by massing grunts and making one or two sappers.
Think about it, have you tried to play a game that goes into late game where every player are forbidden to use lust? Was it horribly bad? Or did you have suddenly more options in your tech tree, more things to think of and micro manage? Was it not fun at all?
I believe because it is so cheap lust overshadows everything else the tech tree has to offer which could also be used and played with and it makes the game more straight forward than it could be.

At the same time I do not want to make lust weaker either.
Because it wouldn't be warcraft 2 anymore if you could not break a defense with a nicely timed lusted ogers attack or if Axe throwers lusted didn't rip appart drakes, or lusted dragons able to kill dks etc...

I believe if lust did cost more mana we would have the same game we all love, it would just make playing orcs require a bit more planning and thinking than just getting lust as soon as possible and constantly re-lusting a wrecking ball patch of ogers there and there.

Making lust cost more mana could make it an amazing situational skill instead of a constant no-brainer and would open the path for more of the tech tree to be used in regular games like runes, sappers and other super nice things we only get to see when one or two very good player manages to sneak these strategies in on a perfect timing.

Don't get me wrong though lust is a great spell, Warcraft 2 without lust at all would be unthinkable, it adds something to the game and really is kinda iconic but strong as it is right now it also strips a large part of the game away too.

Yes orc players would have to take into account that their army is not always 100% ready to fight just like their enemies, if you think about it humans have already to deal with this to time their attacks to try and avoid lust or catch unlusted ogies or lure them away from the action if anything, this is more thrilling and requires more thinking/planning which is the way I see it very good for the game.

Now about invisibility and mages/dks overall:
Though I am not excluding it could be something to think about I personally believe Invisibility is fine as it is, especially counting that DKs have haste for drakes and also coil that heals them and unholy armor all of these are very good spells too.
Invisibility is definitely a good late game skill but it is not like dks don't have their own arsenal I am pretty sure a lot of players still rather play a dk than a mage I believe the two are pretty balanced as it is.

As a matter of fact  in the list I gave the only real changes I would like to try myself are: lust mana cost increase and heal mana cost decrease and boundary removed to be honest I think that would be a good start ^^.
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