Warcraft II Forum
Warcraft II => Server.War2.ru => Topic started by: Incos on March 26, 2019, 01:31:50 PM
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Balancing humans? It wouldn’t even take long to modify the .exe file, it has already been cracked. I am wondering why it hasn’t been done. Are you against patches? Do you only like orcs? I really don’t understand. And if anyone states that on even faster/fastest that humans are balanced, we would have to have a separate discussion.
Just makes no sense.
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No
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dont touch balance thx
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nop
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Okay arch, only play humans then.
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You could make a good case that humans are stronger on Water maps.
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The only thing that needs to be patched/balanced are those fucking ballistas misfiring
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The only thing that needs to be patched/balanced are those fucking ballistas misfiring
this would be a nice thing to patch.
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Yeah the 8 pro gow players that pick orc say the game is balanced. ;)
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Yeah the 8 pro gow players that pick orc say the game is balanced. ;)
And? Cause you want pick human we should rebalance game cause all players know Lust is op?
Its possible to win
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EQDTH2IWDI4&list=PLCotwPB4IR4gsf6p9HrljNg5AcQJiuKAY&index=6&t=0s
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Playtesting and getting everyone to agree on a set of mods would be much harder than the mods themselves.
I'm sorry I never finished my LiveMod project, I think that would be a good approach to the issue. It lets map designers add a set of mods to an individual pud file. Everyone needs to be running the LiveMod program, but the mods are loaded from the pud file so everyone gets the same mods and they are only applied for that game, then reset afterwards.
The alpha test worked fine. It's just a bunch of time I don't really have to get a finished version done, and then it might be hard to convince people to d/l and run LiveMod. Would be a good thing to add to the next CE release.
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Playtesting and getting everyone to agree on a set of mods would be much harder than the mods themselves.
I'm sorry I never finished my LiveMod project, I think that would be a good approach to the issue. It lets map designers add a set of mods to an individual pud file. Everyone needs to be running the LiveMod program, but the mods are loaded from the pud file so everyone gets the same mods and they are only applied for that game, then reset afterwards.
The alpha test worked fine. It's just a bunch of time I don't really have to get a finished version done, and then it might be hard to convince people to d/l and run LiveMod. Would be a good thing to add to the next CE release.
Yeah about that I'm adding it too war2usa client. Can we encrypt one of the config files. There is some stuff I dont want taken I spent hours reversing out of war2.
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dudes i got it..warcraft 2 randomizer! or not thinking.... but it would be a web page that spit out a random generated spells .exe and cant duplicate spells so every spell isnt lust and u just guess your race lol and have to buy pretty much ever spell and see what it is..ah we can dream
i dont think the casual user likes memory programs ,lots of people think ru version of war2 is a virus or something.
but then again lamb proggy would be great a text box and it generates a name for the order of spells cat123 and people type it in boom spells set.
or it reads and writes it to a custom randomizer pud it makes to a selected map!
there you go.... blizz on holyv ! death coil on knights you will never know! poly morph at the cost of slow/lust..
people want op,it may or it may not :D
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Gryphons cost @ 1500 gold would probably balance the game. Would probably be the most reasonable change without breaking the game code.
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Balancing humans? It wouldn’t even take long to modify the .exe file, it has already been cracked. I am wondering why it hasn’t been done. Are you against patches? Do you only like orcs? I really don’t understand. And if anyone states that on even faster/fastest that humans are balanced, we would have to have a separate discussion.
Just makes no sense.
You havent played a real humans player yet. Look up Dugz, he's probably the last of the humans players that still plays. Humans are the better Water race as well as the better control race. Orcs are simply better at brute force which is FAR easier to play than control. Think of orcs like the "White Weenie" decks of Magic The gathering and Humans as the Control Blue decks. One takes brains, the other doesnt. Humans will ALWAYS win if they are played by players of equal skill in the respected races because control always wins in War2 but it's not as easy as it sounds.
And a gryphon even at 500g would still be to expensive to use as a unit like a grunt in the same situations. Just ignore the air units all together and your game skill will improve 80% just from ignoring those HIGHLY situation units. They are the correct cost for the situations they need to be used in already, so no changes to the air units really needs to be made. They cost a lot because you're not suppose to have an entire army of them.
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Yea I’m sure a 500 cost air unit with splash damage wouldn’t be an effective unit.
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There is room for improvement, it would have to be done as an option so u could play as a purist still.
At a minimum it would be good to revitalize dead spells that are never an option in a close game. If exorcism were as cheap as runes at 1,000 u might see a lot more dongs, I know SG loves dongs. With invisible humans are a solid defensive race. A viable defense against lust is slowing a back of ogers and mage bombing them. Problem is the range on slow sucks and u have to basically sacrifice a mage to maximize damage when it’s usually more effective to just cast double blizz.
Conservative balance: Exo 1,000, Slow extend the range. Fix balista misfire bug.
Extreme balance: Double the mana capacity of Humans, would make hit and run attacks in conjunction with slow and birds a viable tactic while you mass knights and pick them apart with invisible.
Make Healing a proximity spell like runes!
Make fireball more accurate like death coil.
Give humans a 1500, 300 lvl 5 upgrade.
Polymorph 1500
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The reality of it is that nothing will be patched, no point talking about it really. I mean us who love playing humans as they are (me/dugs) dont really care about balancing at this point.(25 year old game)
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Honestly I am in favor of no changes at all!
We dont need the game to be balanced to have fun on war2.
Everyone knows it is not balanced and it is not that big of an imbalance in itself.
You can always play the same race as your opponent if you want perfect balance and it also provides a way to play with a handicap against someone else it can be an additional source of fun
Right now I would say it is the least important thing I would go for if I was to spend effort making the game better:
I would rather have people work on implementing:
-> A match-making queue for 1v1 and premade teams based on elo.
Like they have in war3 or starcraft 2.
-> A real spectate mode with 2 or 3 minutes delay that does not impact the real game speed so if watcher lags players do not feel it.
The idea would be to do what insight does but instead of writing to a file send the data to the watchers that would then store the data to the buffer and play it something around these lines.
-> Some real team wins conditions meaning that if you loose all your buildings but one player have you allied and still has units you are not defeated until no player alive have you allied. (no more need to care for that stupid last building)
-> Some handicap options in lobby like war3 or starcraft, allowing you to set a handicap for yourself that would make your units have a lower maximum health in game based on that handicap setting.
The last thing id change is the balance honestly because this would not be necessarily a straight upgrade from what we have already.
But if really there is no way around it and we already considered all of the above I would go for small targeted changes so that all spells and units get used more often instead of just ignored in most situations:
- fix balista bug
- lust mana cost increase to 80 or 100 or more if not enough up to 128 so that ogres cannot always re-lust right away giving humans a chance to kite since the spell should mostly be used to break chokes and walls.
- heal mana cost decrease to 2 per hp healed or less (so that it actually freaking heals)
- Adjust human spells costs and research times to orcs's costs.
- Double fireball's damages or make it two times cheaper so that it is worth using in some situations.
- Make polymorph cost 125 at most because you have to pay for it and it is nowhere near an as good a nuke as coil is.
- invisibility also forces you to have mages sitting at home and will most of the time not have the same impact as haste so id make its mana cost only twice the one of haste at 100
- Make skeletons benefit upgrades or slightly buff them because they are just a waste at the moment they serve no strategical purpose and they could have one.
- flameshield mana cost to 50 instead of 80 would also help making that spell more worth using.
- Unholy armor to 125 mana like polymorph for more ease of use
For the mechanics maybe heal and slow targetting could work like coil meaning snap to the closest unit but honestly id be fine if we kept the game intact mechanically speaking aside from the ballista's bug.
But yeah as I said that'd be my last concern and changing the balance would also require us to test a lot and make sure the game still plays the same and is getting better not worse. :P
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Make heal an auto cast by right clicking the spell, make paladin's start with max mana, either increase the amount of HP healed or increase their mana capacity
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I think it's fine for heal to suck. I don't want paladins standing a strong chance vs a pack of lusted ogres, then the races are basically just the same except for really minor stuff (blizz slow invis vs coil dnd haste). Let the knights rely on the hit-and-run playstyle difference that good players using humans are forced to make use of.
Not that I really think it's worth trying to balance the races at all but here's some random ideas:
-Make the base knight stronger than the ogre. This will give humans an advantage until the orc gets lust, and an advantage against unlusted units, but they'll still be owned when confronting a lusted enemy
-Keep making the archer/ranger upgrades way more powerful until they're buffed enough that they're good, especially if you run a group of them behind a protective force of footmen/knights
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Whenever knight will heal he wont hit ogre, even if he heal 1 mana 1hp and it Will auto he will Just heal all the time
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i think everyone needs to just sit down and use the humans ....of course you dont wanna offense late game vs a = skill,but mage harrass with invis is not a fair spell eithier, niether is exo..why i die mainly is i cant expand for crap and im no pro..i think a pro player could possibly make the humans operate better than orcs.
every time i get my mages ready to go...if im trying to power to them,a very good orc player has 2 bases already and is almost or at lust..so i just mage them off and finally the next couple of waves will get me and im out of gold....if a player like that switched to humans gd i almost fear them more than when they play orc.
dugz if he is 100% humans that is an astounding record even if he is team games.
i have seen it before a user called falkentyne...dude was a god of humans.
the biggest factor of all strategy and apm
oh the elves..team games and u see dragons being made..just laugh..x3 attack gg
good as i can do swzag aint no lamb :D but man this is the best game ever..u got the early strat,mid,late..top players got a insane apm ...blizzard should see esport in this
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Humans are the superior race if played properly. The reason they are not played has nothing to do with them sucking as far as balance goes. The real reason they are not played is because you all are lazy fucks and dont have the patience/drive to correctly play humans. Playing humans requires high APM, a shit ton of concentration, and an EXCELLENT understanding of the game. All of which you also need for orcs but to a lesser degree simply because of the lust-n-forget capabilities of orcs. Orcs are the easiest race to play and as a result also offers a more relaxed play style. You dont have to put 100% in every single game in order to play decent. If you were at a competition, you would have the high APM, concentration and understanding of the game so it would then also makes sense to use the more superior race which are humans and this was very much the case years ago during the Kali/Kahn ladders. All of the top 10 players were also the best human players, that is absolutely no coincidence and they routinely used humans to beat the shit out of other top tier players when it really mattered.
What you all are not understanding is that there is a difference between "easy to play" and "completely imbalanced". You're misconstruding easy to play as though it were a balance issue and thats not the case. A perfect analogy for this would be to say that "Automatic Transmissions" are superior because they are easier to use. But everyone knows that Standard Transmissions are superior. How many Automatic Transmissions win the Daytona 500? None. But how many Automatics are there on the highway vs standard? An absurd amount. Does that mean automatic transmissions are imbalanced and superior to standard? Uhm. NO. The same can be said for humans vs orcs. Humans are the "Standard Transmissions" of War2 and Orcs are the "Automatic Transmissions" of war2. So stop saying that humans are inferior to orcs because thats just plain FALSE. All of the proposed changes dont really change the balance as much as they change the ease of playability of humans to fit into a more leisurely play style.
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knights and slow would give some equalizing effect though. i mean its a human spell ..mages never use it..would they mind? let the mages auto heal lol
or just lambs prog...a spell randomizer it'll spit all spells to random slots ...thats compatable ..blizzard on holy v ur f'd
i mean we are continue ing to play this game..ideas are ok..unless u wanna play those new fangled games
$ trmnts damn user controlled game fck the organization