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General => Comradely & Loving Discussion Zone => Topic started by: BabyShark on December 13, 2017, 12:41:45 PM

Title: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: BabyShark on December 13, 2017, 12:41:45 PM
Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials

by law professor Adam J. MacLeod

I teach in a law school. For several years now my students have been mostly Millennials. Contrary to stereotype, I have found that the vast majority of them want to learn. But true to stereotype, I increasingly find that most of them cannot think, don’t know very much, and are enslaved to their appetites and feelings. Their minds are held hostage in a prison fashioned by elite culture and their undergraduate professors.

They cannot learn until their minds are freed from that prison. This year in my Foundations of Law course for first-year law students, I found my students especially impervious to the ancient wisdom of foundational texts, such as Plato’s Crito and the Code of Hammurabi. Many of them were quick to dismiss unfamiliar ideas as “classist” and “racist,” and thus unable to engage with those ideas on the merits. So, a couple of weeks into the semester, I decided to lay down some ground rules. I gave them these rules just before beginning our annual unit on legal reasoning.

Here is the speech I gave them.

********************************

Before I can teach you how to reason, I must first teach you how to rid yourself of unreason. For many of you have not yet been educated. You have been dis-educated. To put it bluntly, you have been indoctrinated. Before you learn how to think you must first learn how to stop unthinking.

Reasoning requires you to understand truth claims, even truth claims that you think are false or bad or just icky. Most of you have been taught to label things with various “isms” which prevent you from understanding claims you find uncomfortable or difficult.

Reasoning requires correct judgment. Judgment involves making distinctions, discriminating. Most of you have been taught how to avoid critical, evaluative judgments by appealing to simplistic terms such as “diversity” and “equality.”

Reasoning requires you to understand the difference between true and false. And reasoning requires coherence and logic. Most of you have been taught to embrace incoherence and illogic. You have learned to associate truth with your subjective feelings, which are neither true nor false but only yours, and which are constantly changeful.

We will have to pull out all of the weeds in your mind as we come across them. Unfortunately, your mind is full of weeds, and this will be a very painful experience. But it is strictly necessary if anything useful, good, and fruitful is to be planted in your head.

There is no formula for this. Each of you has different weeds, and so we will need to take this on the case-by-case basis. But there are a few weeds that infect nearly all of your brains. So I am going to pull them out now.

First, except when describing an ideology, you are not to use a word that ends in “ism.” Communism, socialism, Nazism, and capitalism are established concepts in history and the social sciences, and those terms can often be used fruitfully to gain knowledge and promote understanding. “Classism,” “sexism,” “materialism,” “cisgenderism,” and (yes) even racism are generally not used as meaningful or productive terms, at least as you have been taught to use them. Most of the time, they do not promote understanding.

In fact, “isms” prevent you from learning. You have been taught to slap an “ism” on things that you do not understand, or that make you feel uncomfortable, or that make you uncomfortable because you do not understand them. But slapping a label on the box without first opening the box and examining its contents is a form of cheating. Worse, it prevents you from discovering the treasures hidden inside the box. For example, when we discussed the Code of Hammurabi, some of you wanted to slap labels on what you read which enabled you to convince yourself that you had nothing to learn from ancient Babylonians. But when we peeled off the labels and looked carefully inside the box, we discovered several surprising truths. In fact, we discovered that Hammurabi still has a lot to teach us today.

One of the falsehoods that has been stuffed into your brain and pounded into place is that moral knowledge progresses inevitably, such that later generations are morally and intellectually superior to earlier generations, and that the older the source the more morally suspect that source is. There is a term for that. It is called chronological snobbery. Or, to use a term that you might understand more easily, “ageism.”

Second, you have been taught to resort to two moral values above all others, diversity and equality. These are important values if properly understood. But the way most of you have been taught to understand them makes you irrational, unreasoning. For you have been taught that we must have as much diversity as possible and that equality means that everyone must be made equal. But equal simply means the same. To say that 2+2 equals 4 is to say that 2+2 is numerically the same as four. And diversity simply means difference. So when you say that we should have diversity and equality you are saying we should have difference and sameness. That is incoherent, by itself. Two things cannot be different and the same at the same time in the same way.

Furthermore, diversity and equality are not the most important values. In fact, neither diversity nor equality is valuable at all in its own right. Some diversity is bad. For example, if slavery is inherently wrong, as I suspect we all think it is, then a diversity of views about the morality of slavery is worse than complete agreement that slavery is wrong.

Similarly, equality is not to be desired for its own sake. Nobody is equal in all respects. We are all different, which is to say that we are all not the same, which is to say that we are unequal in many ways. And that is generally a good thing. But it is not always a good thing (see the previous remarks about diversity).

Related to this:  You do you not know what the word “fair” means. It does not just mean equality. Nor does it mean something you do not like. For now, you will have to take my word for this. But we will examine fairness from time to time throughout this semester.

Third, you should not bother to tell us how you feel about a topic. Tell us what you think about it. If you can’t think yet, that’s O.K.. Tell us what Aristotle thinks, or Hammurabi thinks, or H.L.A. Hart thinks. Borrow opinions from those whose opinions are worth considering. As Aristotle teaches us in the reading for today, men and women who are enslaved to the passions, who never rise above their animal natures by practicing the virtues, do not have worthwhile opinions. Only the person who exercises practical reason and attains practical wisdom knows how first to live his life, then to order his household, and finally, when he is sufficiently wise and mature, to venture opinions on how to bring order to the political community.

One of my goals for you this semester is that each of you will encounter at least one idea that you find disagreeable and that you will achieve genuine disagreement with that idea. I need to explain what I mean by that because many of you have never been taught how to disagree.

Disagreement is not expressing one’s disapproval of something or expressing that something makes you feel bad or icky. To really disagree with someone’s idea or opinion, you must first understand that idea or opinion. When Socrates tells you that a good life is better than a life in exile you can neither agree nor disagree with that claim without first understanding what he means by “good life” and why he thinks running away from Athens would be unjust. Similarly, if someone expresses a view about abortion, and you do not first take the time to understand what the view is and why the person thinks the view is true, then you cannot disagree with the view, much less reason with that person. You might take offense. You might feel bad that someone holds that view. But you are not reasoning unless you are engaging the merits of the argument, just as Socrates engaged with Crito’s argument that he should flee from Athens.

So, here are three ground rules for the rest of the semester.

 

1.  The only “ism” I ever want to come out your mouth is a syllogism. If I catch you using an “ism” or its analogous “ist” — racist, classist, etc. — then you will not be permitted to continue speaking until you have first identified which “ism” you are guilty of at that very moment. You are not allowed to fault others for being biased or privileged until you have first identified and examined your own biases and privileges.

2.  If I catch you this semester using the words “fair,” “diversity,” or “equality,” or a variation on those terms, and you do not stop immediately to explain what you mean, you will lose your privilege to express any further opinions in class until you first demonstrate that you understand three things about the view that you are criticizing.

3.  If you ever begin a statement with the words “I feel,” before continuing you must cluck like a chicken or make some other suitable animal sound.

********************************

To their credit, the students received the speech well. And so far this semester, only two students have been required to cluck like chickens.

 

Adam J. MacLeod is an associate professor of law at Jones School of Law at Faulkner University in Montgomery, Alabama.

(Taken from http://newbostonpost.com/2017/11/09/undoing-the-dis-education-of-millennials/ (http://newbostonpost.com/2017/11/09/undoing-the-dis-education-of-millennials/))
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: marx was right on December 13, 2017, 01:02:26 PM
Quote
One of the falsehoods that has been stuffed into your brain and pounded into place is that moral knowledge progresses inevitably, such that later generations are morally and intellectually superior to earlier generations, and that the older the source the more morally suspect that source is. There is a term for that. It is called chronological snobbery. Or, to use a term that you might understand more easily, “ageism.”

lol that is one goofy term "chronological snobbery", a literal euphemism for an "ism" (ageism) which this curmudgeon so detests. sounds like he's using his feelings a little too much and not enough le logic.
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on December 13, 2017, 08:40:36 PM
He seems rather small minded and uninformed OP, but thanks for sharing this perspective. Cheers!
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: BabyShark on December 13, 2017, 08:57:26 PM
Calling him "small minded and uninformed" is an example of what he's talking about.

You are unable to address his actual points and truths, so you resort to insults that offer nothing to anyone.

You are not successfully presenting an alternate point of view, which is exactly what he is saying is going on with this generation that struggles to engage in a reasonable way.
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on December 13, 2017, 09:07:57 PM
Calling him "small minded and uninformed" is an example of what he's talking about.

You are unable to address his actual points and truths, so you resort to insults that offer nothing to anyone.

You are not successfully presenting an alternate point of view, which is exactly what he is saying is going on with this generation that struggles to engage in a reasonable way.

Everything he says is either so plainly obvious that it is a trivial banality or a distorted strawman of various types of people and beliefs he has a general animus towards. To me, it sounds like a vacuous whine, and there's not really much of substance there to engage. Cheers.
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: marx was right on December 13, 2017, 09:29:25 PM
it doesn't even seem like he knows what ageism means when he defines it as the belief that today's generation morally superior to our older generations.  also i think it's objectively true that for instance not treating homosexuals as mentally ill people and ostracizing them from society is morally reprehensible and a lot worse than treating them as actual normal human beings today. how are these guys in a position to teach anyone? mind boggling.
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: marx was right on December 13, 2017, 09:31:23 PM
it doesn't even seem like he knows what ageism means when he defines it as the belief that today's generation morally superior to our older generations.  also i think it's objectively true that for instance treating homosexuals as mentally ill people and ostracizing them from society is morally reprehensible and a lot worse than treating them as actual normal human beings today. how are these guys in a position to teach anyone? mind boggling.


edited
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: Lambchops on December 14, 2017, 09:18:19 AM
This guy is awesome. He's facing an uphill battle though. So many people don't want to think anymore, they google their opinions. It's a real pity he's teaching in a law school - what a waste.
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: BabyShark on December 14, 2017, 12:59:31 PM
It's a real pity he's teaching in a law school - what a waste.

@Lambchops Thanks for sharing your thoughts! :)

Can you explain what you mean by the above statement?
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: eyyy im walkin here on December 14, 2017, 01:28:53 PM
Hello, is this the thread for undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod?
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: Lambchops on December 14, 2017, 01:49:07 PM
It's a real pity he's teaching in a law school - what a waste.

@Lambchops Thanks for sharing your thoughts! :)

Can you explain what you mean by the above statement?

In my experience most lawyers are amoral creatures that are concerned with making money and little else. I'm sure there are exceptions, but that would seem to be the norm I have encountered.

I just think it's a pity to have someone so devoted to teaching critical thinking just to have the recipiants of this education end up as lawyers anyway.

.... what a waste
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: marx was right on December 14, 2017, 04:39:21 PM
the article belongs on /r/badphilosophy
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: marx was right on December 14, 2017, 05:37:49 PM
who else is disturbed at the education level in america where professors write like prepubescent fans of sam harris? of course, it's not just america, canada has that raging cultist lunatic jordan peterson.
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: Lambchops on December 15, 2017, 01:58:07 AM
who else is disturbed at the education level in america where professors write like prepubescent fans of sam harris? of course, it's not just america, canada has that raging cultist lunatic jordan peterson.

I don't know anything at all about this guy apart from the quoted speach. Which I like. I think it's clearly not a thesis, or "writing" per se, but a speach intended to appeal to the minds of young students, hence the style. He might have a bunch of other opinions that I hate IDK.

As I read it, the point of it is to try to wean them off the social media driven mass political correctness whereby opinion is driven primarily by what statements attract the most comments/retweets and lead them back to deciding on their own judgements and values, by using their own reasoning.

I don't think this speach is trying to talk anyone out of supporting the validity of any particular "ism", just trying to get people to use their own brains to come to that conclusion. Social media driven ethics are a very dangerous thing, because already people are becoming very effective at mass-manipulation via troll farms etc.

Public opinion that is driven by mass-hysteria never ends well, we should be teaching young people to differentiate between information, advertising, campaigning and straight-out bull****. I worry that the next generation may lose the ability to tell these apart.  :(
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: marx was right on December 15, 2017, 11:05:03 AM
>I don't think this speach is trying to talk anyone out of supporting the validity of any particular "ism"

that's literally what it's doing.
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: marx was right on December 15, 2017, 11:07:52 AM
>I don't think this speach is trying to talk anyone out of supporting the validity of any particular "ism"

that's literally what it's doing.



this author is also rapidly homophobic and thinks gay marriage with be the doom of society or some stupid ****.

http://shadowofthecross.org/blog/archives/898 (http://shadowofthecross.org/blog/archives/898)

Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: BabyShark on December 15, 2017, 01:15:12 PM
In my experience most lawyers are amoral creatures that are concerned with making money and little else. I'm sure there are exceptions, but that would seem to be the norm I have encountered.

I just think it's a pity to have someone so devoted to teaching critical thinking just to have the recipiants of this education end up as lawyers anyway.

.... what a waste

Amoral in what way? I understand you subscribe to the idea that the world came about by only natural processes and the physical world is all there is, that we are nothing more than random accidents and particles in motion following the laws of physics.

What is morality, in that context? How can one be judged for being without good morals in a world where existence is accidental and we are nothing more than chance molecular concoctions of function and order and life?

:)
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: BabyShark on December 15, 2017, 01:21:08 PM
this author is also rapidly homophobic and thinks gay marriage with be the doom of society or some stupid ****.

So, what are his points that you disagree with, and what are your counterarguments?

You got a 1 week ban from Moderated Section of W2 Forum for breaking the rules of the Moderated Section forbidding obscene language, but you are most welcome to continue the topic in General Discussion.
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: Lambchops on December 15, 2017, 01:50:10 PM
Quote from: marx was right on Today at 21:05:03

    >I don't think this speach is trying to talk anyone out of supporting the validity of any particular "ism"

    that's literally what it's doing.

this author is also rapidly homophobic and thinks gay marriage with be the doom of society or some stupid ****.

Well.

For the record:

- Personally I am not at all homophobic or rasict.

- I think you mean "rabidly"

- and most importantly: I think in this instance you are being pwnd by the homophobe because you are failing with the very point that he is making. You are failing to asses this speach on its merits and are instead judging it on your opinion of the author.

If, as you say, he actually is, in fact a homophobe who is trying to excuse racism then I think he is a complete pratt, but that is not what the above speach says.

Perhaps this is a clevery constructed segue for other objectionable opinions he is planning to introduce later. If that is true then I don't like that either, but no such opinions exist in the speach..... actually he is a lawyer so this is not hard to believe, but you should say that and not ascribe things to the speach that aren't there, if you do you are just falling into his trap and being pwnt. Sorry, but you can do better.
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: Lambchops on December 15, 2017, 02:06:18 PM
this author is also rapidly homophobic and thinks gay marriage with be the doom of society or some stupid ****.

So, what are his points that you disagree with, and what are your counterarguments?

You got a 1 week ban from Moderated Section of W2 Forum for breaking the rules of the Moderated Section forbidding obscene language, but you are most welcome to continue the topic in General Discussion.

I take it the "****" has replaced another word?

I would like to note that I disagree with this ban. MWR was engaging with and trying to express a vaild opinion on the topic, he wasn't just spamming abuse etc. It may be technically against the rules but the moderator should get a little bit of leeway as far as enforcing them goes.... we don't need to be too precious. Just my opinion, however I will support the moderators final decision.

At this point is should also be noted this I myself used some colorful language in a pervious post:

we should be teaching young people to differentiate between information, advertising, campaigning and straight-out bull****. I worry that the next generation may lose the ability to tell these apart.  :(

I noticed that I had written this in the moderated section after I posted it - wasn't really paying attention at the time, I was just thinking about the point I was trying to make. So apologies if I have offended anyone and perhaps I should also face similar action. Although like I say, I support the moderator's discression over the exact wording of the rules.



Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: Lambchops on December 15, 2017, 02:15:16 PM
.... and yes everywhere I put "speach" I should have written "speech".... where's that edit button gone lol
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: BabyShark on December 15, 2017, 03:20:41 PM
You are right, Lamby! I looked and looked and looked after you mentioned it, but it took me awhile til I finally found it.

You also get the 1 week ban as per Moderated Section Rules.

And before you get all wound up, keep in mind I myself was banned from the section for making a joke about people singing like frogs. ;)

It was very noble of you to confess and I apologize for my oversight.

Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: BabyShark on December 15, 2017, 03:34:55 PM
I'm going to comment on the rules for the Moderated Section.

First of all, I will readily admit that I have myself had explosions of profanities during moments of emotional upheaval. Absolutely.

I had one a few weeks ago that was witnessed by quite a number of people. I was in an emotional state, not a thinking state. And all kinds of things were coming out in typing. I wasn't under self-control at that time. I was reacting emotionally, without thinking it through.

That's the goal of this section, to have a place where useful discussion can take place, where views can be presented in a place where "wow you're a retard" or "that's so *****phobic!" isn't all that's required from an opposing viewholder.

The purpose isn't to nitpick, but to prevent abuse, and in the interest of fairness, intentions, thoughts, and motives can't be a factor in upholding the rules, nor can my liking or nonliking of the person in question. I've already seen at least 4 people I like undergo a ban, including myself.

I support the concept of having a place where we need to exercise self-control before expressing ourselves.

The entire rest of the forum is still open and free to all users, so you still have a place to express yourself unfettered by any boundaries other than blid's generally laid-back and chill emotions. ;)
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on December 16, 2017, 09:01:21 AM
who else is disturbed at the education level in america where professors write like prepubescent fans of sam harris? of course, it's not just america, canada has that raging cultist lunatic jordan peterson.

Sam Harris is even worse than Peterson imo
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on December 16, 2017, 09:02:21 AM
who else is disturbed at the education level in america where professors write like prepubescent fans of sam harris? of course, it's not just america, canada has that raging cultist lunatic jordan peterson.

Sam Harris is even worse than Peterson imo

But this is a real "would you rather be shot in the stomach and left in the desert to slow die of sepsis" or "would you rather be flayed alive and thrown into salt pits" type dilemma
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on December 16, 2017, 09:05:02 AM
I'm going to comment on the rules for the Moderated Section.

First of all, I will readily admit that I have myself had explosions of profanities during moments of emotional upheaval. Absolutely.

I had one a few weeks ago that was witnessed by quite a number of people. I was in an emotional state, not a thinking state. And all kinds of things were coming out in typing. I wasn't under self-control at that time. I was reacting emotionally, without thinking it through.

That's the goal of this section, to have a place where useful discussion can take place, where views can be presented in a place where "wow you're a retard" or "that's so *****phobic!" isn't all that's required from an opposing viewholder.

The purpose isn't to nitpick, but to prevent abuse, and in the interest of fairness, intentions, thoughts, and motives can't be a factor in upholding the rules, nor can my liking or nonliking of the person in question. I've already seen at least 4 people I like undergo a ban, including myself.

I support the concept of having a place where we need to exercise self-control before expressing ourselves.

The entire rest of the forum is still open and free to all users, so you still have a place to express yourself unfettered by any boundaries other than blid's generally laid-back and chill emotions. ;)

IMO your enforcement of rules is arbitrary and petty, and serves more to soothe your own ego than to enforce any consistent set of rules or a persistent cultural tone in this forum. The fact that these people are being banned happen to disagree with you and the fact that you are banning them for offenses that have been previously upheld as appropriate for this forum (light profanity) upholds this view. I will be addressing your behavior with the senior moderators.
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: eyyy im walkin here on December 16, 2017, 09:05:55 PM
You are right, Lamby! I looked and looked and looked after you mentioned it, but it took me awhile til I finally found it.

You also get the 1 week ban as per Moderated Section Rules.

And before you get all wound up, keep in mind I myself was banned from the section for making a joke about people singing like frogs. ;)

It was very noble of you to confess and I apologize for my oversight.


There's no such rule stipulating one week bans.
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: BabyShark on December 17, 2017, 02:18:53 PM
Your worldview in a nutshell:

I'm an atheist and I believe in evolution (which teaches that white people are more evolved than other races and which Hitler used to promote his desire to create a superior Arian race by killing races he considered inferior). Death speeds up evolution, so death is a good thing, so killing genetically inferior, less evolved people is a good thing and will help get the human race to progress to superiority faster.

But I support Islam which teaches in a god (a god who doesn't exist, since I'm an atheist, so I support people lying to promote an imaginary god) who hates Christians and Jews and other non-muslims and instructs Muslims to murder them (so I again support and endorse murder, even of myself, since I'm a non-Muslim and I'm on the Quran's kill list), but people who question Islam (even though since I'm an atheist, I acknowledge that the religion is hokey nonsense worshipping and obeying an imaginary being) are racist bigots who like Hitler, but i think Hitler is evil, even though he follows my belief system of evolution and is helping evolution along by creating a master white race. But anyone who disagrees with me is a white supremacist bigot islamophobe, which are really, really bad, evil traits of people that should be silenced, imprisoned, or killed.

I also support homosexuality, even though it would slow down evolution because only male/female can reproduce. The world is overpopulated and we need to kill or block population growth, and even though the growth is slow and steady and living things have had millions of years to practice evolving to save themselves from various emergencies (like growing gills when you're drowning for example), I dont think humans will be able to evolve out of this problem because...well...no one has actually witnessed anything evolve new information into the gene pool when faced with a struggle to survive. I think acceptance of homosexuality should be forced on all people, but acceptance of heterosexuality should not. That one is optional.

I also approve of religions like Islam that call for the killing of homosexuals. Because it's still reducing the population.

I hate Christians because they're all bigots and irrational. We should kill them too. Or at least they shouldn't be allowed to talk. Their worldview is just too upsetting for mine and I can't handle it when I have no reasonable response to give or when they shred my worldview and make me feel not too smart. Like they are so racist because they don't approve of female genital mutilation or stoning and beating women. What disgusting racists. We need to approve of people who beat and stone and mutilate women and girls so people know we are not racist!

I don't understand why these terrible people are allowed to talk. Only I deserve to have an opinion because...because I'm not a racist Islamophobic homophobic narrow-minded bigot!
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on December 18, 2017, 01:14:08 PM
Your worldview in a nutshell:

I'm an atheist and I believe in evolution (which teaches that white people are more evolved than other races and which Hitler used to promote his desire to create a superior Arian race by killing races he considered inferior). Death speeds up evolution, so death is a good thing, so killing genetically inferior, less evolved people is a good thing and will help get the human race to progress to superiority faster.

But I support Islam which teaches in a god (a god who doesn't exist, since I'm an atheist, so I support people lying to promote an imaginary god) who hates Christians and Jews and other non-muslims and instructs Muslims to murder them (so I again support and endorse murder, even of myself, since I'm a non-Muslim and I'm on the Quran's kill list), but people who question Islam (even though since I'm an atheist, I acknowledge that the religion is hokey nonsense worshipping and obeying an imaginary being) are racist bigots who like Hitler, but i think Hitler is evil, even though he follows my belief system of evolution and is helping evolution along by creating a master white race. But anyone who disagrees with me is a white supremacist bigot islamophobe, which are really, really bad, evil traits of people that should be silenced, imprisoned, or killed.

I also support homosexuality, even though it would slow down evolution because only male/female can reproduce. The world is overpopulated and we need to kill or block population growth, and even though the growth is slow and steady and living things have had millions of years to practice evolving to save themselves from various emergencies (like growing gills when you're drowning for example), I dont think humans will be able to evolve out of this problem because...well...no one has actually witnessed anything evolve new information into the gene pool when faced with a struggle to survive. I think acceptance of homosexuality should be forced on all people, but acceptance of heterosexuality should not. That one is optional.

I also approve of religions like Islam that call for the killing of homosexuals. Because it's still reducing the population.

I hate Christians because they're all bigots and irrational. We should kill them too. Or at least they shouldn't be allowed to talk. Their worldview is just too upsetting for mine and I can't handle it when I have no reasonable response to give or when they shred my worldview and make me feel not too smart. Like they are so racist because they don't approve of female genital mutilation or stoning and beating women. What disgusting racists. We need to approve of people who beat and stone and mutilate women and girls so people know we are not racist!

I don't understand why these terrible people are allowed to talk. Only I deserve to have an opinion because...because I'm not a racist Islamophobic homophobic narrow-minded bigot!

This does not represent my views nor the views of anyone else here, you are propagating vicious lies about other's beliefs solely to attack them. This is clearly in violation of rule #1 of this forum:

Quote
General Guidelines
Flaming is 100% disallowed in this section of the forum. Posters are encouraged to limit their posting here to substantive, conversationally ethical posts relevant to the topic of the thread & to express any disagreement they may have with any individual or stance in a coherent & respectful way.

There is nothing ethical about attributing false beliefs to those who disagree with you and it is clearly not respectful. Needless to say I am reporting this post and your lack of standards as a moderator to the senior moderation team.
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: BabyShark on December 18, 2017, 07:53:21 PM
@CumSavorer4385

You seem to have difficulty articulating your beliefs, so I decided to help you out. You claim I've misrepresented your worldview, so I thought it would be a positive thing to give you a chance to specify your actual worldview if it differs from the one presented. Here is a questionnaire to help you share your actual worldview.
If you want to show where I'm mistaken, please use the "Quote" feature, and within the quote, add a mark beside your chosen answers in this questionnaire, such as * or X or #, as you prefer, to indicate your responses.

I'll fill it out for myself, so you can just easily change the answers according to your views. To clarify, these are my answers representing my views. I invite you to change the answers to represent your own views.

I'm an atheist
True
False*
I don't know

2. I believe in evolution from single-celled bacteria to human beings
True
False*
I don't know

3. I believe Darwin's writings are scientifically accurate and true
True
False*
I don't know

4. Darwin taught that white people are more evolved than other races
True*
False
I don't know

5. Death (of all inferior genes) is essential to evolutionary progress, according to the evolutionary worldview
True*
False
I don't know

6. I'm a Muslim
True
False*
I don't know

7. Islam is a theistic religion
True*
False
I don't know

8. I believe Muhammad's version of god, Allah, is the real god who made the universe, and Muhammad is his prophet and accurately relays Allah's message to people.
True
False*
I don't know

9. Islam is a good religion, and I think the beliefs of the Quran should be protected and promoted.
True
False*
I don't know

10. Hitler believed in evolution and wanted to help evolution out by creating a more advanced race of human beings by killing the genes he considered inferior.
True*
False
I don't know

11. Evolution is helping people to become better.
True
False*
I don't know

12. I support and approve of homosexual behavior
True
False*
I don't know

13. I am a homosexual
True
False*
I don't know

14. A male and a male OR a female and a female can produce offspring in the absence of the opposite gender.
True
False*
I don't know

15. The world is overpopulated
True
False*
I don't know

16. We need to slow population growth
True
False*
I don't know

17. It is good to reduce the world population
True
False*
I don't know

18. It is good to reduce the world population by aborting unborn babies
True
False*
I don't know

19. It is good to reduce the world population by any means, including promoting war, homosexuality, abortion, promiscuous sex, breaking down natural family structure, promoting birth control, and promoting the undesirability of parenthood.
True
False*
I don't know

20. When faced with a struggle to survive, living things evolve new features, like gills or wings or lungs or legs.
True
False*
I don't know

21. Wings evolved because a wingless creature wanted to fly.
True
False*
I don't know

22. Wings evolved accidentally and randomly on an individual animal
True
False*
I don't know

23. Wings evolved accidentally and randomly suddenly into a whole population of animals all at once
True
False*
I don't know

24. Wings evolved into multiple individuals in population of animals and the wings were immediately fully functional
True
False*
I don't know

25. Wings evolved onto one individual only, but the wings were not fully functional
True
False*
I don't know

26. I think acceptance of homosexuality should be taught to all people
True
False*
I don't know

27. I think acceptance of heterosexuality should be taught to all people
True
False* (because it doesn't need to be taught, it's natural)
I don't know

28. Islamic writings call for the killing of homosexuals
True*
False
I don't know

29. I approve of Islamic writings and beliefs and values
True
False*
I don't know

30. I hate Christians
True
False*
I don't know

31. Christians are all stupid
True
False*
I don't know

32. Christians should be killed if they cannot be forced to stop being Christians
True
False*
I don't know

33. Christians should not be allowed to share their beliefs publicly
True
False*
I don't know

34. I find the Christian worldview upsetting and disturbing
True
False*
I don't know

35. All Christians that believe the Bible is the Word of God are racists
True
False*
I don't know

36. I approve of female genital mutilation forced on young girls
True
False*
I don't know

37. I approve of women and girls being beaten by their husband
True
False*
I don't know

38. I approve of women who are raped or falsely accused of adultery being stoned for adultery
True
False*
I don't know

39. Many women and girls in Islamic countries are abused and oppressed
True*
False
I don't know

40. The Quran and other Islamic texts prescribe female genital mutilation, calling it "circumcision"
True*
False
I don't know

41. Muhammad, in the Quran and other Islamic texts, prescribed wife-beating
True*
False
I don't know

42. Muhammad married a 6 year old girl named Aisha and consummated the marriage when she was 9 years old
True*
False
I don't know

43. Muhammad was a good role model and we should believe and follow what he wrote and taught
True
False*
I don't know

44. People who have wrong opinions or beliefs should be
ignored
silenced
taught*
imprisoned
killed
insulted and ridiculed* (occasionally, in a most friendly manner to help them overcome their illogical beliefs and be converted to the truth and find peace and joy and love ;))
I don't know
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on December 18, 2017, 08:17:31 PM
@CumSavorer4385

You seem to have difficulty articulating your beliefs, so I decided to help you out.

This is plainly disingenuous. I have expressed no difficulty articulating my beliefs and you haven't even expressed an inability to understand them (instead you've evaded and ignored arguments). In addition, the idea that you could articulate my beliefs better than myself is plainly ludicrous, and this is made obvious by the absurd nature of the beliefs you attributed to me. You claim to be a Christian yet you lie about what I believe and, when confronted about this, rather than apologizing and seeking to atone for your sin, you turn it into a virtue. This is very unbecoming behavior for anyone, let alone a forum moderator, and is neither honest nor conducive to discussion.

I will not respond to your questionnaire until at least you admit that you lied about my beliefs and then lied again when confronted, and then I will consider it. This post was obviously made in bad faith and, as someone who is only interested in intelligent and productive discussion with intellectually honest and ethical parties.
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: BabyShark on December 18, 2017, 09:30:29 PM
Can you or can you not articulate what you actually believe? Do you not know? Are you scared to tell people?

@CumSavorer4385

You seem to have difficulty articulating your beliefs, so I decided to help you out. You claim I've misrepresented your worldview, so I thought it would be a positive thing to give you a chance to specify your actual worldview if it differs from the one presented. Here is a questionnaire to help you share your actual worldview.
If you want to show where I'm mistaken, please use the "Quote" feature, and within the quote, add a mark beside your chosen answers in this questionnaire, such as * or X or #, as you prefer, to indicate your responses.

I'll fill it out for myself, so you can just easily change the answers according to your views. To clarify, these are my answers representing my views. I invite you to change the answers to represent your own views.

I'm an atheist
True
False*
I don't know

2. I believe in evolution from single-celled bacteria to human beings
True
False*
I don't know

3. I believe Darwin's writings are scientifically accurate and true
True
False*
I don't know

4. Darwin taught that white people are more evolved than other races
True*
False
I don't know

5. Death (of all inferior genes) is essential to evolutionary progress, according to the evolutionary worldview
True*
False
I don't know

6. I'm a Muslim
True
False*
I don't know

7. Islam is a theistic religion
True*
False
I don't know

8. I believe Muhammad's version of god, Allah, is the real god who made the universe, and Muhammad is his prophet and accurately relays Allah's message to people.
True
False*
I don't know

9. Islam is a good religion, and I think the beliefs of the Quran should be protected and promoted.
True
False*
I don't know

10. Hitler believed in evolution and wanted to help evolution out by creating a more advanced race of human beings by killing the genes he considered inferior.
True*
False
I don't know

11. Evolution is helping people to become better.
True
False*
I don't know

12. I support and approve of homosexual behavior
True
False*
I don't know

13. I am a homosexual
True
False*
I don't know

14. A male and a male OR a female and a female can produce offspring in the absence of the opposite gender.
True
False*
I don't know

15. The world is overpopulated
True
False*
I don't know

16. We need to slow population growth
True
False*
I don't know

17. It is good to reduce the world population
True
False*
I don't know

18. It is good to reduce the world population by aborting unborn babies
True
False*
I don't know

19. It is good to reduce the world population by any means, including promoting war, homosexuality, abortion, promiscuous sex, breaking down natural family structure, promoting birth control, and promoting the undesirability of parenthood.
True
False*
I don't know

20. When faced with a struggle to survive, living things evolve new features, like gills or wings or lungs or legs.
True
False*
I don't know

21. Wings evolved because a wingless creature wanted to fly.
True
False*
I don't know

22. Wings evolved accidentally and randomly on an individual animal
True
False*
I don't know

23. Wings evolved accidentally and randomly suddenly into a whole population of animals all at once
True
False*
I don't know

24. Wings evolved into multiple individuals in population of animals and the wings were immediately fully functional
True
False*
I don't know

25. Wings evolved onto one individual only, but the wings were not fully functional
True
False*
I don't know

26. I think acceptance of homosexuality should be taught to all people
True
False*
I don't know

27. I think acceptance of heterosexuality should be taught to all people
True
False* (because it doesn't need to be taught, it's natural)
I don't know

28. Islamic writings call for the killing of homosexuals
True*
False
I don't know

29. I approve of Islamic writings and beliefs and values
True
False*
I don't know

30. I hate Christians
True
False*
I don't know

31. Christians are all stupid
True
False*
I don't know

32. Christians should be killed if they cannot be forced to stop being Christians
True
False*
I don't know

33. Christians should not be allowed to share their beliefs publicly
True
False*
I don't know

34. I find the Christian worldview upsetting and disturbing
True
False*
I don't know

35. All Christians that believe the Bible is the Word of God are racists
True
False*
I don't know

36. I approve of female genital mutilation forced on young girls
True
False*
I don't know

37. I approve of women and girls being beaten by their husband
True
False*
I don't know

38. I approve of women who are raped or falsely accused of adultery being stoned for adultery
True
False*
I don't know

39. Many women and girls in Islamic countries are abused and oppressed
True*
False
I don't know

40. The Quran and other Islamic texts prescribe female genital mutilation, calling it "circumcision"
True*
False
I don't know

41. Muhammad, in the Quran and other Islamic texts, prescribed wife-beating
True*
False
I don't know

42. Muhammad married a 6 year old girl named Aisha and consummated the marriage when she was 9 years old
True*
False
I don't know

43. Muhammad was a good role model and we should believe and follow what he wrote and taught
True
False*
I don't know

44. People who have wrong opinions or beliefs should be
ignored
silenced
taught*
imprisoned
killed
insulted and ridiculed* (occasionally, in a most friendly manner to help them overcome their illogical beliefs and be converted to the truth and find peace and joy and love ;))
I don't know

Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: Ze_sAiNt on December 19, 2017, 07:45:01 AM
43. Muhammad was a good role model and we should believe and follow what he wrote and taught
True
False*
I don't know

You might not want to believe Muhammad to be a role model but those people certainly did and they did so without any hidden agenda:

1. George Bernard Shaw - The Genuine Islam Vol.No.8, 1936

"If any religion had the chance of ruling over England, nay Europe within the next hundred years, it could be Islam."

“I believe if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring much needed peace and happiness.
I have studied him - the man and in my opinion is far from being an anti–Christ. He must be called the Savior of Humanity.
I have prophesied about the faith of Mohammad that it would be acceptable the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today.”


2. Nepolean Bonaparte – Quoted in Christian Cherfils BONAPARTE ET ISLAM (PARIS  1914)

“I hope the time is not far off when I shall be able to unite all the wise and educated men of all the countries and establish a uniform regime based on the principles of Qur'an which alone are true and which alone can lead men to happiness.”


3. M.K.Gandhi, YOUNG INDIA, 1924

"...I became more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and his own mission. These, and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every trouble."


4. Lamartine - Histoire de la Turquie, Paris 1854, Vol II, pp. 276-77

"If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astounding results are the three criteria of human genius, who could dare to compare any great man in modern history with Muhammad? The most famous men created arms, laws and empires only. They founded, if anything at all, no more than material powers which often crumbled away before their eyes. This man moved not only armies, legislations, empires, peoples and dynasties, but millions of men in one-third of the then inhabited world; and more than that, he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas, the beliefs and souls... the forbearance in victory, his ambition, which was entirely devoted to one idea and in no manner striving for an empire; his endless prayers, his mystic conversations with God, his death and his triumph after death; all these attest not to an imposture but to a firm conviction which gave him the power to restore a dogma. This dogma was twofold, the unit of God and the immateriality of God; the former telling what God is, the latter telling what God is not; the one overthrowing false gods with the sword, the other starting an idea with words.

"Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images; the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?"


5. Edward Gibbon and Simon Ocklay  - History of the Saracen Empire, London, 1870, p. 54

"It is not the propagation but the permanency of his religion that deserves our wonder, the same pure and perfect impression which he engraved at Mecca and Medina is preserved, after the revolutions of twelve centuries by the Indian, the African and the Turkish proselytes of the Koran...The Mahometans have uniformly withstood the temptation of reducing the object of their faith and devotion to a level with the senses and imagination of man. 'I believe in One God and Mahomet the Apostle of God', is the simple and invariable profession of Islam. The intellectual image of the Deity has never been degraded by any visible idol; the honors of the prophet have never transgressed the measure of human virtue, and his living precepts have restrained the gratitude of his disciples within the bounds of reason and religion."


6. Rev. Bosworth Smith, Mohammed and Mohammadanism, London 1874, p. 92

"He was Caesar and Pope in one; but he was Pope without Pope's pretensions, Caesar without the legions of Caesar: without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a palace, without a fixed revenue; if ever any man had the right to say that he ruled by the right divine, it was Mohammed, for he had all the power without its instruments and without its supports."


7. Annie Besant, The Life and Teachings of Muhammad, Madras 1932, p. 4

"It is impossible for anyone who studies the life and character of the great Prophet of Arabia, who knows how he taught and how he lived, to feel anything but reverence for that mighty Prophet, one of the great messengers of the Supreme. And although in what I put to you I shall say many things which may be familiar to many, yet I myself feel whenever I re-read them, a new way of admiration, a new sense of reverence for that mighty Arabian teacher."


8. Montgomery Watt, Mohammad at Mecca, Oxford 1953, p. 52

"His readiness to undergo persecutions for his beliefs, the high moral character of the men who believed in him and looked up to him as leader, and the greatness of his ultimate achievement – all argue his fundamental integrity. To suppose Muhammad an impostor raises more problems than it solves. Moreover, none of the great figures of history is so poorly appreciated in the West as Muhammad."


9. James A. Michener, 'Islam: The Misunderstood Religion' in Reader's Digest (American Edition), May 1955, pp. 68-70

"Muhammad, the inspired man who founded Islam, was born about A.D. 570 into an Arabian tribe that worshipped idols. Orphaned at birth, he was always particularly solicitous of the poor and needy, the widow and the orphan, the slave and the downtrodden. At twenty he was already a successful businessman, and soon became director of camel caravans for a wealthy widow. When he reached twenty-five, his employer, recognizing his merit, proposed marriage. Even though she was fifteen years older, he married her, and as long as she lived, remained a devoted husband.

"Like almost every major prophet before him, Muhammad fought shy of serving as the transmitter of God's word, sensing his own inadequacy. But the angel commanded 'Read'. So far as we know, Muhammad was unable to read or write, but he began to dictate those inspired words which would soon revolutionize a large segment of the earth: "There is one God."

"In all things Muhammad was profoundly practical. When his beloved son Ibrahim died, an eclipse occurred, and rumors of God's personal condolence quickly arose. Whereupon Muhammad is said to have announced, 'An eclipse is a phenomenon of nature. It is foolish to attribute such things to the death or birth of a human-being.'"

"At Muhammad's own death an attempt was made to deify him, but the man who was to become his administrative successor killed the hysteria with one of the noblest speeches in religious history: 'If there are any among you who worshipped Muhammad, he is dead. But if it is God you worshipped, He lives forever.'"


10. Michael H. Hart, The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History, New York: Hart Publishing Company, Inc. 1978, p. 33

"My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular level."

"...It is probable that the relative influence of Muhammad on Islam has been larger than the combined influence of Jesus Christ and St. Paul on Christianity. ...It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single figure in human history."


11. Sarojini Naidu, the famous Indian poetess says – S. Naidu, Ideals of Islam, Speeches and Writings, Madaras, 1918

“It was the first religion that preached and practiced democracy; for, in the mosque, when the call for prayer is sounded and worshippers are gathered together, the democracy of Islam is embodied five times a day when the peasant and king kneel side by side and proclaim: 'God Alone is Great'... “


12. Thomas Caryle – Heros and Heros Worship

“…The lies (Western slander) which well-meaning zeal has heaped round this man (Muhammed) are disgraceful to ourselves only…How one man single-handedly, could weld warring tribes and wandering Bedouins into a most powerful and civilized nation in less than two decades….A silent great soul, one of that who cannot but be earnest. He was to kindle the world; the world’s Maker had ordered so."


13. Stanley Lane-Poole – Table Talk of the Prophet

“He was the most faithful protector of those he protected, the sweetest and most agreeable in conversation. Those who saw him were suddenly filled with reverence; those who came near him loved him; they who described him would say, "I have never seen his like either before or after." He was of great taciturnity, but when he spoke it was with emphasis and deliberation, and no one could forget what he said...”


14. Dr. William Draper, "A History of the Intellectual Development of Europe"

"Four years after the death of Justinian, A.D. 569, was born in Mecca, in Arabia, the man who, of all men, has exercised the greatest influence upon the human race... To be the religious head of many empires, to guide the daily life of one-third of the human race, may perhaps justify the title of a Messenger of God."


15. Leo Tolstoy - The Rule of Prophet Mohammed

“Muhammad has always been standing higher than the Christianity. He does not consider god as a human being and never makes himself equal to God. Muslims worship nothing except God and Muhammad is his Messenger. There is no any mystery and secret in it.”


16. K. S. Ramakrishna Rao - 'Mohammed: The Prophet of Islam,' 1989

"Today after a lapse of fourteen centuries, the life and teachings of Muhammad have survived without the slightest loss, alteration or interpolation. They offer the same undying hope for treating mankind’s many ills, which they did when he was alive. This is not a claim of Muhammad’s followers but also the inescapable conclusion forced upon by a critical and unbiased history."

""The personality of Muhammad is most difficult to get the whole truth of it. Only a glimpse of him I can catch. What dramatic succession of picturesque scenes? There is Muhammad the Prophet; there is Muhammad the General; Muhammad the King; Muhammad the Warrior; Muhammad the Businessman; Muhammad the Preacher; Muhammad the Philosopher; Muhammad the Statesman; Muhammad the Orator; Muhammad the Reformer; Muhammad the Refuge of Orphans; Muhammad the Protector of Slaves; Muhammad the Emancipator of Women; Muhammad the Judge; Muhammad the Saint... In all these magnificent roles and in all these departments of human activities he is equally a hero."


@BabyShark
How do you compare to these great theologians and historians?  Why should anyone believe your words over theirs?
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on December 19, 2017, 09:05:17 AM
Can you or can you not articulate what you actually believe? Do you not know? Are you scared to tell people?

No, I already said why I won't complete your questionnaire, because you are deceitful and argue in bad faith. You have not actually engaged with any of my expressed opinions, instead you lie about what I believe and argue with that, and refuse to apologize for lying. You are a bad faith actor in this discussion and until you acknowledge and apologize for your lies I will not engage you except to point out your falsehoods. Cheers.

Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: BabyShark on December 19, 2017, 08:00:29 PM
Can you or can you not articulate what you actually believe? Do you not know? Are you scared to tell people?

No, I already said why I won't complete your questionnaire, because you are deceitful and argue in bad faith. You have not actually engaged with any of my expressed opinions, instead you lie about what I believe and argue with that, and refuse to apologize for lying. You are a bad faith actor in this discussion and until you acknowledge and apologize for your lies I will not engage you except to point out your falsehoods. Cheers.



You haven't expressed any opinions other than you hate me and want me dead.

If you are willing to express your views by filling out the questionnaire so we know what we are talking about, that would be a very beneficial first step, not only to discussion, but also to you, since I expect you would have to do a little bit of thinking to answer these questions. An answer of "I don't know" is a perfectly acceptable answer as well. Just answer them all with what you think or with "I don't know". It's not that hard.
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: BabyShark on December 19, 2017, 08:07:16 PM
43. Muhammad was a good role model and we should believe and follow what he wrote and taught
True
False*
I don't know

Instead of going by what some uninformed people have to say, I would rather go directly to the SOURCE material, like writings from Muhammad himself, or by his child bride, Aisha, or for example, this book:

(https://i.imgur.com/lcKWoQ3.jpg)

Muhammad was a sinful person like you and me. We are all sinful people. He wasn't perfect.

Jesus lived a perfect life and died in our place to save us from our sins.

Jesus is the one who can save you. Muhammad can't save anyone. He made a lot of rules to follow, but even the most devout Muslims don't know for sure if they've done enough to get to paradise. None of us can do enough.

Acts 4:10-12

10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11 This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”


Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on December 20, 2017, 07:47:43 AM
You haven't expressed any opinions other than you hate me and want me dead.

This is clearly and plainly false. You lie, again. Bad Christian.
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: Ze_sAiNt on December 20, 2017, 08:18:32 AM
Instead of going by what some uninformed people have to say


Hilarious!

So you consider those 16 historians/theologians who have spent years studying Islam and the biography of Muhammad as UNINFORMED while you, who have never studied the history of Arabia, who have no knowledge of what's happening in Islamic countries except through carefully selected YouTube videos, and who get your information about Muhammad from an anti-Islamic site (thereligionofpeace.com) as the INFORMED one?  Give me a break.

Your counter argument to considering the views of unbiased non-muslim historians/theologians is to label the whole lot of them as "uninformed" and to then promote a book about Muhammad which is again publicized in thereligionofpeace.com.  So who then, other than you, would you consider as "informed"?

Here are some more UNINFORMED famous personalities making statements about Islam and Muhammad:

(https://pre00.deviantart.net/0a08/th/pre/i/2012/163/5/5/the_sword_of_islam__5_by_nayzak-d536qs3.jpg)

(http://www.amust.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/P5_Bilaltolerance-avnery.jpg)

(https://pre00.deviantart.net/9ee2/th/pre/i/2012/163/f/b/the_sword_of_islam__4_by_nayzak-d536qf6.jpg)

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a2/99/ed/a299edf5ee19b1284b3c0510723bd365.jpg)

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/46/79/90/467990242ea991e9f1fa761f0295d4ef--eye-parts-prophet-mohammed.jpg)
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: FlyDude on December 29, 2017, 04:33:23 PM
Perhaps the greatest 10-minute summation of the international clash of cultures that is currently being foisted upon the west.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a16_1514563984 (https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a16_1514563984)
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: Ze_sAiNt on January 02, 2018, 12:36:54 PM
@FlyDude

This video proves just how uninformed/misinformed people like yourself can so easily be swayed by someone spouting baseless accusations against Islam.  But I'm inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are posting this video out of your ignorance about Islam and would invite you to read the Qur'an and reach your own conclusions rather than listen to a 10-minute summation by someone with no credentials.
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: FlyDude on January 02, 2018, 11:11:33 PM
@FlyDude

This video proves just how uninformed/misinformed people like yourself can so easily be swayed by someone spouting baseless accusations against Islam.  But I'm inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are posting this video out of your ignorance about Islam and would invite you to read the Qur'an and reach your own conclusions rather than listen to a 10-minute summation by someone with no credentials.

Your reply proves what a bunch of whiny crybabies there are in the muslim world. Every time there is anything that even remotely transgresses (or in this case, merely disagrees with) Islam or its adherents there's a jihad or intifada, or at least a very weak and lame attack (such as calling me out as "ignorant/uninformed/misinformed" blah blah blah.

Let me know if there is anything in the video you disagree with, and why, if you wish to open discourse with me. For the rest of us, it's a fantastic summation of current trends. I don't really care if you like or agree with the video. I do.

I find it hilarious that the guy talking about "credentials" just finished posting a picture of a brain-damaged boxer (R.I.P.) as evidence for why Islam should be held with any esteem at all. Lol...

Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: eyyy im walkin here on January 04, 2018, 11:01:14 AM
is FlyDude a real person or is babyshark just using another name now?
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: marx was right on January 04, 2018, 11:27:34 AM
maybe but there's no shortage of reactionaries that love to screech on about islam as if they have a clue.
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: ~ToRa~ on January 04, 2018, 11:57:21 AM
is FlyDude a real person or is babyshark just using another name now?

He a real player. But he is new to the server.

Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: Lambchops on January 04, 2018, 01:31:33 PM
Ohno not this thread again .... please GOD, ALLAH, BUDDAH, whoever... please don't let them start on this thread again :o
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: Ze_sAiNt on January 07, 2018, 09:29:11 AM
Your reply proves what a bunch of whiny crybabies there are in the muslim world. Every time there is anything that even remotely transgresses (or in this case, merely disagrees with) Islam or its adherents there's a jihad or intifada, or at least a very weak and lame attack (such as calling me out as "ignorant/uninformed/misinformed" blah blah blah.

It's amazing how desensitized people have become to attacks on Islam, so much so that a guy saying in a video "Islam is our sworn enemy... read the Qur'an, see for yourself, it's a virtual declaration of war against the rest of humanity..." is considered as 'a mere disagreement with Islam'.

And yet, saying someone is "misinformed/uninformed" and "being ignorant about Islam" is being construed as an attack on that individual... who's being a whiny crybaby here?


Let me know if there is anything in the video you disagree with, and why, if you wish to open discourse with me.

It's more whether there is something in the video I actually AGREE with.  You subscribe to some nobody's views about Islam and the Qur'an when you don't even have the slightest clue what's in the Qur'an and what Islam teaches.  Not that you care anyways, you would agree with anyone who defames Islam.

I find it hilarious that the guy talking about "credentials" just finished posting a picture of a brain-damaged boxer (R.I.P.) as evidence for why Islam should be held with any esteem at all. Lol...

That 'brain-damaged boxer' happens to have his name on the Hollywood Walk of Fame... his name is actually being held in high esteem by his fellow Americans, muslims and non-muslims alike.  If that’s not enough as credentials, type his name in Wikipedia and read about what he has achieved in his life. And eventually, those who attended his memorial service (including ex President Bill Clinton) paid glowing tribute to him.  What more do you want as credentials?

It seems that your ignorance extends far beyond your understanding of Islam...
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: eyyy im walkin here on January 08, 2018, 12:24:08 PM
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: marx was right on January 08, 2018, 01:28:24 PM
that blatant projection from Bill Maher at the end, lmao! no self-awareness.
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on January 11, 2018, 06:39:20 PM
bill maher should be fed to wild dogs
Title: Re: Undoing the Dis-Education of Millenials by law professor Adam J. MacLeod
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on January 11, 2018, 06:41:55 PM
that blatant projection from Bill Maher at the end, lmao! no self-awareness.

yeah that was embarrassing lol