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General => Moderated General Discussion => Play Pen-itentiary => Topic started by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on November 26, 2017, 11:40:42 AM

Title: Infants Welcome
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on November 26, 2017, 11:40:42 AM
When Mousetopher unveiled the new moderated forum, people who committed the slightest infraction were marked "infants" and banned from moderated discussion.  We don't want to lighten up on the moderation too much, because we still want the moderated forum to be a place free from insults and general bad behavior.  However, some of these infractions are quite small, and a ban seems to go too far.

Enter the Play Pen-itentiary.  When you commit an offense in the moderated forum, your access to that forum will be revoked, but you'll still be able to post here.  This is where those marked infants should meditate on their mistakes, do some penance, and eventually request reinstatement.  Reinstatement will be granted on a somewhat subjective basis, depending on the seriousness of the offense, the time spent in serious reflection, the number of previous offenses, and other related factors.

Enjoy!
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: shesycompany on November 26, 2017, 10:05:04 PM
ill wait till more arrives.
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on November 27, 2017, 04:32:45 PM
I would ask that in the interests of fairness, justice, and equal treatment for all, that Ripe be added to this section so that he may explain and/or apologize and be given a voice, particularly in the light of many others not facing a single repercussion of any kind for identical infractions (ie. violent talk).

I will reiterate once again that I am against violence, threats, death wishes, etc., but that I am for equal treatment of all users across the board, regardless of skill level or personal feelings by me or by admins towards the player(s) in question and regardless of congruency to my or to admins' personal political or ideological views.

Treatment of all users should be the same.

Ie. If Ripe is banned for violent talk, so should those asking for my death, and Claw for restating Ripe's identical "violent speech".

If Claw and other violent talkers are NOT banned, neither should Ripe be.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

EQUAL TREATMENT FOR ALL!!!!
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on November 27, 2017, 04:37:28 PM
If someone wants to refer the Finnish police to Ripe's post so they can undertake an investigation or put him on a watch list, then I will welcome his return.

Here is the relevant post: http://forum.war2.ru/index.php/topic,2765.msg57944.html#msg57944 (http://forum.war2.ru/index.php/topic,2765.msg57944.html#msg57944)

Here is the appropriate contact information:
Lapland Police Department
Tip line number 0295 466 259
E-mail (crime tips) rikostiedustelu.lappi@poliisi.fi

Unless that is done, I feel it would be irresponsible to let him post here, given the actual threatening content of his post.
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on November 27, 2017, 04:42:49 PM
The OP should be stoned to death.

Who is going to call the police on this one?
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on November 27, 2017, 04:47:18 PM
That, like me saying Harvey Weinstein deserves the death penalty, is a completely different sort of statement than Ripe posting about his own personal ambition to murder people.  I've already explained this to you in much more detail, so you're just being intentionally stubborn and tone deaf here.
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on November 27, 2017, 04:58:46 PM
I would say, in the most respectful way possible, that it is you who are being stubborn and irrational.

You are making a difference between:

"KILL ALL CHRISTIANS/MUSLIMS/JEWS/BLACKS/COMMUNISTS"

and

"IM GONNA KILL ALL CHRISTIANS/MUSLIMS/JEWS/BLACKS"

To make that diffrentiation is absurd, when the intent and hate is identical.

The difference in what actually was posted is as follows:

Xyz is raping our women and killing our men, so I feel like we need to defend our people and land.

Xyz said something I dont agree with so I want to kill her.
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on November 27, 2017, 05:29:12 PM
He literally said that in the very near future he is going to murder people.
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: mousEtopher on November 27, 2017, 05:39:16 PM
At any rate ripe's banned from the whole forum not the moderated section so this subsection doesn't even apply to him
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on November 27, 2017, 06:49:52 PM
1. If you believe he intended to kill people and you did not warn the victims or contact the authorities, you also would have blood on your hands if people died when you "knew" in advance.
well yeah, this is exactly why i was seriously considering contacting the authorities and am very conflicted about never having done so!!  why do you think i had the police contact information already looked up and ready to provide so quickly?  the odds are always against him or anyone actually doing something so extreme but it is a possibility and if he does go on a murder spree i indeed will feel pretty responsible for perhaps knowing better and letting it go. ultimately just leaving him banned from posting here is where i left it, for his sake, since he probably more likely is full of shit, despite him posting in a serious manner that he plans to kill people, which btw is a pretty crazy thing for you to be an apologist for!

3. Why do you give permission for others to post violent content that threatens my life? Obviously death wishes to a person will make them feel threatened and unwelcome. Why is my life and emotional well-being irrelevant to you? It seems very much like people who agree with your ideology are protected, and those who don't are banned (for identical content that some are allowed to post) and allowed to be targeted by hate speech and death wishes.
people do not ask my permission before posting believe it or not.  if youre alleging ideological bias please consider that claw (a vocal racist) posted a copy/paste of the ripe post which successfully baited you, and i didnt do anything to him, and consider your account has never been penalized once despite posting constant screeds against islam, which is unambiguously punishable according to the forum rules. 

and again, shit talk is frequent in this community and expressions of anger and disgust are not the same as death threats but the threads containing that kind of language against you were moved to the flame forum long ago.
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on November 27, 2017, 07:21:00 PM
Why do you insist on being so uncharitable and negative?
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: shesycompany on November 27, 2017, 07:25:05 PM
 :o tell shotgun!
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on November 27, 2017, 07:34:09 PM
How is promoting fair and equal treatment of all people negative?

How is caring about truth unloving?
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: shesycompany on November 27, 2017, 07:51:34 PM
people discriminate im sorry .. u cant just go around blindfolded..the real jesus will not let them to heaven if it does exist

maybe ripe is protecting himself..war is on the other side of the world
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on November 27, 2017, 08:12:59 PM
My problem with Islam is with IDEAS and BELIEFS (ie. oppression of women, violence against non-Muslims, etc.), not with the people. I care about the people. Jesus loves the people.

In order to be a fair judge, the judge has to consider the evidence, look at the evidence, weigh the evidence. You refused to look at any evidence regarding what the religion teaches to determine if it is good or bad.

You have determined that violence against innocents is bad. If Islam teaches violence against innocents, then according to your own beliefs, Islam is bad.

You yourself either approve of violence against women and violence against non-Muslims (especially Jews and Christians) OR you disapprove of Islam.

To put yourself in a position where you can sit on the fence and pretend to be in both camps, where you promote Islam and pretend to promote peace and non-violence, you have to do what you've done, which is close your eyes and ears to facts, including video footage of what is going on where Muslims have taken over, and close your eyes and ears to people reading and speaking what is actually written in the Quran, and close your eyes and ears to Muslims themselves announcing world takeover plans using culture Jihad (pretending to assimilate until their numbers in a given location are over 50%, when they will push their own Sharia law that includes stoning of women and honor killing women, and dominating and killing Christians, Jews, and other non-Muslims that do not want to submit to their ideology)...

IF there is a religion that teaches violence, isn't it the RIGHT thing to take a stand against that religion?

IF I am mistaken and the evidence that I have been seeing and reading and hearing can be countered with reason, evidence, and logic, then isn't it the RIGHT thing for you to convince me of the errors of my thinking? Obviously I care about truth. Obviously I care about people. If I have been misinformed, don't you think persuading me with reason after looking at the evidence yourself is the best course of action? Shutting me up, throwing all rational objections from a concerned citizen to the flame forum with absolutely no good reason, being spammed with hate messages and death wishes, none of those will persuade me of another point of view. Logic and reason and evidence are what persuade me.

"There are peaceful Muslims."

Islam calls Muslims that do not submit to the teachings of the Quran "hypocrites" and they are also a target to be killed. If they are peaceful Muslims, they are not Muslims. They may be Arabs and have come from an Islamic cultural background, but they are not "believers" or true Muslims. True Muslim believers follow and obey the teachings in the Quran, some of which I've included below.

So the question is, does Islam teach violence against innocents? Does Islam teach sexism (that one sex is inherently better than the other?)

The Quran certainly does.

Quran 8:12 – “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”

Quran 9:5 “So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.”

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Quran 4:34 "Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which God has gifted the one above the other, and on account of the outlay they make from their substance for them. Virtuous women are obedient, careful, during the husband's absence, because God has of them been careful. But chide those for whose refractoriness you have cause to fear; remove them into beds apart, and scourge them: but if they are obedient to you, then seek not occasion against them: verily, God is High, Great!"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..."

Quran (9:14) - "Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people."

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. Verse 9:33 tells Muslims that Allah has charted them to make Islam "superior over all religions." This chapter was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination."


Since when did telling the truth become such a crime?

Since when did questioning questionable things become "inappropriate"?

I know we live in an increasing politically correct time, and that free speech is dwindling by a fraying thread. I know there are people who will want to kill me for defending liberty and free speech and questioning a religion that threatens liberty and free speech and the lives of non-Muslims.

I know that here in Canada where I live, they are trying to pass a law that makes free speech a criminal activity. The Muslims want to have a law in OUR LAND OF LIBERTY that NO ONE is allowed to question their religion.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/canada-parliament-anti-islamophobia-motion-pass-muslim-irqa-khalid-david-anderson-racism-faith-a7647851.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/canada-parliament-anti-islamophobia-motion-pass-muslim-irqa-khalid-david-anderson-racism-faith-a7647851.html)

There is NO such protection for Christians here. Or on this forum (where people can mock, insult, flame, and death wish Christians all they want).

So the Muslims want to be above everyone else and have special treatment and laws just for them, that other Canadians do not have.

I have never suggested violence against Muslims, as Jesus teaches in Matthew 5:43-44, “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,"

And God wants them to be saved, as can be seen in 1 Timothy 2:3-4 "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

But they certainly suggest violence against me, on account of me being a Christian and a woman. I'm also a dog owner (they hate dogs and consider them unclean). Mohammad ordered many dogs killed, especially black dogs which were considered the devil.

From Bukhari Vol. 4, #540

    Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle ordered that the dogs should be killed.

From Abu Dawud #2839

    Abd Allah B. Mughaffal reported the apostle of Allah as saying: Were dogs not a species of creature I should command that they all be killed; but kill every pure black one.

From Muslim #3813

    Abu Zubair heard Jabir Abdullah saying: Allah's messenger ordered us to kill dogs and we carried out this order so much so that we also killed the dog roaming with a women from the desert. Then Allah's apostle forbade their killing. He said: "It is your duty to kill the jet-black (dog) having two spots (on the eyes) for it is a devil.

From Muslim #5248

    Maimuna reported that one morning Allah’s Messenger was silent with grief. Maimuna said: Allah’s Messenger, I find a change in your mood today. Allah’s Messenger said: Gabriel had promised me that he would meet me tonight, but he did not meet me. By Allah, he never broke his promises, and Allah’s Messenger spent the day in this sad mood. Then it occurred to him that there had been a puppy under their cot. He commanded and it was turned out. He then took some water in his hand and sprinkled it at that place. When it was evening Gabriel met him and he said to him: You promised me that you would meet me the previous night. He said: Yes, but we do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture. Then on that very morning he commanded the killing of the dogs until he announced that the dog kept for the orchards should also be killed, but he spared the dog meant for the protection of extensive fields or big gardens.

Are black dogs really the devil? I think not.

Contradictory cultures and beliefs simply cannot co-exist peacefully.

You can't have pet-loving North Americans happy as clams while their neighbours are poisoning their black devil dog pets to be obedient to Allah and Muhammad.

You can't have womens-rights-loving North Americans happy while their neighbours are scourging their wives (some of whom are children).

You can't have freedom-loving North Americans happy when their neighbours are working to criminalize free speech.

When the numbers are high enough, it will explode into civil war. This has already been observed throughout history in many countries, including Lebanon, and is now brewing in a number of European countries.

There is absolutely no HATE involved here. I care about dogs, I care about women, I care about children, I care about men. Of all races and nationalities. I care about freedom, I care about truth.

You can't just close your eyes and pretend nothing is happening anywhere in the world, just because you don't happen to see it in your own house or outside your own window.



Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: shesycompany on November 27, 2017, 08:18:26 PM
ug damn your mind is stronger than mine..u want to keep good people with you..i know we are supposed to love our enemies but like shit im not giving up my shit cause someone batshit, i dont think ripe is..oh god yeah there batshit..i used to listen to my preacher on the radio ..crush all electronics..idk what this fuck was thinking..a cult idk these speakers gets war going

pretty much what jessu has posted is bought right posted well beer and music for me bbl
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on November 27, 2017, 08:41:25 PM
Back to Ripe, though.

I am not saying that violent talkers should not be banned.

I am only saying that some violent talkers should not be banned while others are not.

I don't see what harm there would be in letting Ripe explain himself and tell his point of view. If he continues with violent speech, re-ban and remove his postings, ezpz.

I think it would be ridiculous to assert that Ripe posting on a W2 forum puts lives anywhere in danger. If someone means to carry out violence (and I certainly don't believe Ripe does, unless his country reaches a breaking point and civil war is unavoidable, in which case defense of his country's women and children is his duty), they can carry it out with or without advertising in some foreign-based video game forum.

And if you really believed Ripe was going to hurt people, you would have and should have told the authorities to put a stop to it. Your hesitation tells me that you don't really believe he meant to hurt anyone, but was rather expressing frustration and fear because of things he has seen happening in his part of the world that pose a threat to liberty, safety, peace, and Western culture and people. Because I want to believe if you believed lives were in danger, you would try to save them.

To say that the people who posted violence against me really don't want to hurt me, or wouldn't if they could, is presumptuous, and an unfair assumption in light of your assumption that Ripe DID mean to hurt people. If you have the power to read minds, I would love a demonstration. I am certainly convinced that they would hurt me in any way they could. But we all have to die sometime. Threats from evil people are not going to stop me from doing what I believe is right.
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: shesycompany on November 27, 2017, 08:51:37 PM
well he is still playing war2..just go to facebook we are so soft asses now?well dam violence against you id have be twisted as fuck for that
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on November 27, 2017, 09:13:25 PM
you are not just not giving me any benefit of the doubt, but assuming the worst possible motives from me. it's very cynical and mean. like not only do you not take me at my word that im generally hands off but found ripes murder plan genuinely disturbing and scary (and accusing me of being ideologically biased), youre also mocking/attacking me for being concerned about people being killed. it's messed up
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on November 27, 2017, 09:16:45 PM
And you categorically refuse to recognize nuance. Every time you repeat the same thing about treating all posts alike I ask you, do you not see how these posts aren't alike? The tenor and tone is completely different. Posting you plan to commit a mass murder is not at all like telling someone to fuck off and die and I feel like you're deliberately refusing to see that. But I've already explained my reasoning to you, with patience and sincerity, at least two other times, and still here you are again making the same least generous interpretations of me and arguing on behalf of a mass murder planner/fantasizer.
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: shesycompany on November 27, 2017, 09:48:24 PM
how dam im the one with infant title cause i wanted to be first ..i read his post but he isnt different that many of any radical groups people like this shit its fun better than space noone wawnts to go to space at all..not really interested..boring

i want this infant title forever #1 well gone back to jam cherrios and besides the spirit world has anyone seen any aspects of it instead of guessing..i can say i have
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on November 27, 2017, 10:13:57 PM
Actually I did give you the benefit of the doubt. As explained again below.

You said Ripe is going to kill people. You did not contact authorities or warn anyone whose life might be in danger.

Option 1 would be that you're a cold, heartless brute who does not care if people die.

Option 2 is that you don't really believe what you said.

I think Option 2 is giving you the benefit of the doubt.
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on November 27, 2017, 10:19:33 PM
I have said this 3, 4, or 5 times.

I DO NOT approve of violence against innocents. I am NOT "supporting" Ripe's violent talk. I already said that a ban is fair when people act out of line, and that I support your ban.

BUT.

What I AM getting at is that there should be fair and equal treatment of all users on this forum.

It is not fair and equal treatment to ban some people for violent talk and not ban other people for violent talk.

That you can know the heart and mind of a person making a post is impossible.

Why don't you let Ripe come back and answer for himself what he meant and whether he truly intends to go on a killing spree? Because him posting or not posting in this forum does not change what he will or will not do, so his typing doesn't actually cause any damage (in light of the fact that, as you readily admit, this is a lawless, crap-talking, hostile, hateful atmosphere and everyone is just supposed to accept it to be that way).

I want to clarify that I support you as admin Blid, and I like you, and I like that you are respectful in the way you dialogue with people. Sure, we have different viewpoints on certain issues, but you have always been respectful towards me, even when you disagree. That says a lot about you, and I admire that.

I am going to fight for equal treatment of all users on server and forum, and I am going to fight for free speech, and for truth, and I am going to work towards having the kind of world I want to live in and I want my children to live in, whether it's in big areas in real life or in little areas in a little online community where we all share an enjoyment for a particular video game.

I want to see people treat each other with respect and value each other as human beings. People are starving for love and affection, even raging, flaming gamers. Friendliness and kindness are much more likely to build people up and make things better than the constant tearing down and putting down that people seem to think is cool. Most people who are very angry, rude, and hostile, are just people who may have been mistreated or have not felt loved and appreciated and have seen a lot of pain. They need patience and love and kindness, even if they are not able to return it.

Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: shesycompany on November 28, 2017, 04:59:23 AM
u aint gonna catch my butt camping out on top of a indian mound!
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: ~ToRa~ on November 28, 2017, 11:29:07 AM
@eyyy im walkin here
Look like BS kicked me from the moderated section. I need to my posting rights back. She on my ignore list because she spew nonsense. Why she is even given any rights at all is a mystery to me.
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on November 28, 2017, 11:57:54 AM
well i mean tora you did call her retarded, and the whole purpose of the moderated forum is to create a place free from insults and personal attacks, so being sent to the pen seems fair. on another level however i am with you, in that i don't really like the idea that one can make sweeping and ignorant and offensive claims about an entire religion as long as they act poised and respectable while doing it... and then people who lash out at that person get punished for lashing out. i saw lightbringer, who is muslim, popped in and was like "what the hell is all this, and this person is a moderator?!" a sentiment i find very sympathetic. but that seems to be the way of it right now. also, babyshark's pov itself comes from an extremely cultural and religious place, where islam being evil is basically an article of faith, so she earnestly believes her arguments are both right and important, urgent even... there is really no point in diving into those sorts of arguments imo with someone so devoted to their cause.  nothing will change, nothing will be learned, i am just ignoring those threads
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: ~ToRa~ on November 28, 2017, 12:00:52 PM
I genuinely don't care about being banned from the moderated section. Its essentially BS's playpen. I don't even read her posts.
Just remove "infants" from my name and I'll drop this issue. And FYI I was adressing LB not BS and he did cut into her. Only reason he not banned is cause he a global mod on the forum.
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on November 28, 2017, 12:06:28 PM
ok i think i can
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: mousEtopher on November 28, 2017, 01:08:29 PM
on another level however i am with you, in that i don't really like the idea that one can make sweeping and ignorant and offensive claims about an entire religion as long as they act poised and respectable while doing it... and then people who lash out at that person get punished for lashing out.
why does it have to be an act? coherently organizing & presenting a stance requires critical thinking, understanding & presenting evidence, etc etc. it's also a great way to expose any flaws & misconceptions in one's reasoning, and it can't happen if someone is instantly heckled into silence every time they open their mouth. being wrong is not a crime & should not be stigmatized on any level.

so she earnestly believes her arguments are both right and important, urgent even...
as you say, there's no malicious intent here.

there is really no point in diving into those sorts of arguments imo with someone so devoted to their cause.  nothing will change, nothing will be learned, i am just ignoring those threads
sanctimoniously writing someone off altogether and/or telling them to kill themselves have even lower success rates in fact. those sentiments commit the exact same mistake as so-called ignorant & offensive claim-makers in that they subjectively write off & counterpose themselves to x group of people based on y parameter. "oh, you don't think exactly what i do at this exact moment, regardless of your upbringing or education or social context? you must be an ignorant mouthbreathing retard, there's no helping you, do everyone a favor and go kill yourself!" this attitude to me is far worse than just being ignorant/wrong, as it implies enough knowledge to see the shortcomings in someone's reasoning but a complete unwillingness to make any effort to correct them. (or else is itself based on incompletely understood reasoning & thus incapable of producing coherent retorts..) it echoes every other form of bigotry ever in essentially saying "we don't like you, you aren't worth cooperating with on any level, get away from us". such behavior is just inarguably a sad & hypocritical sham for anyone or anything purporting to be leftist & progressive. (not specifically directed towards you blid, i think you succeed in being very patient & measured quite consistently)

anyway @BabyShark as far as fair & equal treatment across the board, any forum on the internet is going to have a caveat in their rules that leaves ultimate determinations up to the moderators and their individual common sense/discretion. no one "knows" for sure how serious ripe is about his ill intent, but we do know that it came across as disturbing enough that we don't want the guy here. i think in general it's best not to get too caught up in the minutia of war2 & its moderation practices as it really does represent a very small part of our overall lives. we do our best here, but at the same time nothing will ever be "perfect"!

Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on November 28, 2017, 03:44:07 PM
as far as the "respectability" debate goes, you make good points and that was a thoughtful post, but in my view, certain ideas, no matter how politely expressed, are violent or hateful.  i think in the case of a dispassionate, careful argument about why jews are the untermensch, for instance, a respectful response only legitimizes an ugly and inherently violent point of view.  if someone replied to that person with "kill yourself, anti-semite retard," i think that's a valid expression of the type of strident disdain that such an argument deserves, and banning the respondent for being crude and offensive, while letting the nazi carry on, is actually its own type of bias toward civility over any sort of righteousness or fairer world. 

that's why i like the rules post in forum affairs that ropes off religious, racial, and sexual intolerance and precludes those issues from being "up for debate."  i dont think that takes too much discussion off the table and i think it works well.  when, in general forum, babyshark violates that rule, and then other people violate the rules in turn with insults and death wishes, i've treated everyone equally by simply trashing the thread into the flame forum altogether instead of singling anyone out.  i don't personally think it's good to tell lightbringer, tora, and other muslim people that they just need to deal with someone posting a steady stream of anti-muslim hate propaganda. 

i do realize that babyshark actually does think that the very concept of islam is dangerous and feels that being silenced on that issue is pc censorship.  i believe if she wants to have those discussions, we offer a place for that type of argument: the flame forum, where claw has had many long debates justifying racism.  i believe a safe, moderated space for babyshark to post about other topics is a good thing, but i dont believe islamophobic arguments belong there.

you have a different view on debate and you explained your philosophy pretty well above, and i respect that.  if you prefer to give bs a safe place to espouse her anti-islam views free from abusive repercussions, that's okay!  i will not be responding to it, however, in part because i don't wish to give such views any oxygen, but also because i believe it would be a waste of breath.  i actually think it's more sanctimonious & arrogant to think i could persuade someone into uprooting their entire belief structure than it is to recognize that we're at an impasse.  in many cases up-ending that person's belief structure would literally mean destroying that person's identity.  it's just not gonna happen.  thank you
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: ~ToRa~ on November 29, 2017, 05:15:59 AM
i do realize that babyshark actually does think that the very concept of islam is dangerous and feels that being silenced on that issue is pc censorship.  i believe if she wants to have those discussions, we offer a place for that type of argument: the flame forum, where claw has had many long debates justifying racism.  i believe a safe, moderated space for babyshark to post about other topics is a good thing, but i dont believe islamophobic arguments belong there.

If someone really does believe one group of people is inferior based soely on their race, gender, religion, disability, age/etc that isn't acceptable in modern society. This is an internet forum at the end of the day where everyone is basically anonymous  so I guess it's not that big a deal.
However I really don't think someone should be made a mod on the forums if they openly declare their intolerance of a group and constantly attack said group.
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on November 29, 2017, 09:35:50 AM
If someone really does believe one group of people is inferior based soely on their race, gender, religion, disability, age/etc that isn't acceptable in modern society. This is an internet forum at the end of the day where everyone is basically anonymous  so I guess it's not that big a deal.
However I really don't think someone should be made a mod on the forums if they openly declare their intolerance of a group and constantly attack said group.

I do not believe any group is inferior base. Neither does Jesus. The message of the love of Jesus is for ALL people, men, women, young, old, blind, seeing, crippled, lame, homeless, Jews, Muslims, Hindus...Jesus loves all people.

You, on the other hand, have repeatedly dehumanized me based on my being a female, thinking it is somehow appropriate to attack my female body parts (illegal sexual harassment and discrimination) because you don't agree with my views, as seen here:

Babyshark has lived her entire life as a flat chested women. I'm sure realizing she will never be as beautiful as the other women of the world has made her turn extremest in her religion and ideology.

Stop being a hypocrite and pretending that you don't see women as objects and below you, when you talk about them as less than human, as though a woman's purpose in the universe is solely to provide sexual gratification to you.

In the same post, you also belittle and insult my religion, so don't pretend that you don't discriminate against my religion, either. For some reason, anti-Christian hate and criticism is allowed, and you want your religion to have magical and special protection from even being openly and respectfully discussed, ie. by ex-Muslims who have experiences to share and by reading the actual Quran.

Here you manage to be both sexist and racist in one post:

I know claw is racist cause he has never touched a black women before and probably never will.
He would rather stick with white women whom may I add all wear padded bras that make it look like they have a rack. But once the bra come off their flat as a pancake.

So don't stand on a pedestal and pretend you stand against racism or sexism or religious discrimination when your speech shows otherwise.

You want to abolish freedom of speech.

I do not.

I have never tried to silence other viewpoints, only abusive and slanderous speech that is not constructive or useful to anyone.
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: tora is a simp bitch for billionaires on November 29, 2017, 01:38:43 PM
Ripe appears to be completely unhinged and the fact he has a child is disturbing.
Being from Finland he probably hardly ever comes in contact with Muslims or black people yet he acts like they're a detriment to whatever his idea of "Western way of life" is. It shows how strong xenophobia together with vicious propaganda in the media can create an unthinking racist baboon. It creates already unhinged people to go and stab politicians simply because they hold favourable policies towards immigrants. http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/18/europe/germany-candidate-stabbing-migration/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/18/europe/germany-candidate-stabbing-migration/index.html) 
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42149444 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42149444)
Reactionaries like Ripe are a toxic byproduct of a capitalist society which feasts off racism.
Title: Re: Infants Welcome
Post by: Igognito on April 19, 2018, 10:51:29 AM
Wow didnt even knew the existence of this part of the forum...

I would like to stand in defense of Ripe.
Not to what Ripe said or what Ripe feels about immigrants. But to the reason why Ripe feels like that!

Most European (especially North) countries are pretty isolated. The term foreigner is a scary term!
Immigration to them seems inappropriate and scary.

In the USA you have lived in harmony with many different races, nationalities and that makes you tolerant.
But when something strange for your society appears aren't you reacting exactly like Ripe?

Example: ISIS (well you will tell me it is not the same, they kill people, they use slavery etc... and yes you are right but it is exactly the same)

Immigrants in Finland is like ISIS in the USA.

Ripe is just afraid of what he doesn't know. It is normal... We should not ban him. We should teach him that immigrants are people like me, you and him...

At least that is what I personally believe.