Warcraft II Forum
Warcraft II => Server.War2.ru => Topic started by: dwarfighter on April 29, 2017, 10:35:07 AM
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I've been creating quite a few threads here, but that's because I have a lot of questions. Hope that's not illegal yet.
Q: How on earth do I play this game online as a newbie?
The community so far has been uninterested in playing with a "noob", as you would no doubt call me. I don't get many answers to a "1v1 newbie anyone?" call, and even if I do, the host does not set a password, so the game is immediately overtaken by server regulars and I'm the one to blame for our team's loss. Extremely frustrating and very disappointing.
There's this option: play with an IRL friend on password-protected maps. This seems to work nicely, and playing with my friend was actually the reason I got into BNE, but you can't always stay online at the same time. So if there's any other way to play with less War-crafty people, I'd really love to hear about it. Otherwise it just doesn't make any sense.
P.S.- if you sense the "lower back pain" in this post and it amuses/angers you - please don't bother answering. I'm just looking for advice from people who would be kind enough to give it.
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This has been an ongoing problem. new players do come in fairly regularly but they get banned a lot because there's such a huge learning curve & having a new player badly unbalances the teams, and they end up leaving quickly before they have a chance to meet other new players they can game with so there's never many around at the same time.
We do have a thread where you can leave your information & contact other new players: http://forum.war2.ru/index.php/topic,2304.0.html (http://forum.war2.ru/index.php/topic,2304.0.html)
We also have a Discord server (text&voice chat, can be used in your browser or has an app to download) that is frequented mostly by lower level/casual players: http://en.war2.ru/discord (http://en.war2.ru/discord)
Certain players will sometimes let you join their games or try to give you advice to improve - me, Babyshark, Igognito, Yamon (only if he's in the right mood), ~ToRa~ sometimes, Harrywangs, Ywfn (both helped me when I was still very bad, but might not help a brand new player)
Tora & I talked about scheduling a couple sessions per week where we would host new player-friendly matches for 1-2 hrs. The plan kind of fizzled but if we could get a group of newbs together who are playing consistently I'd be willing to do this.
I've also considered making a new player section of the forum & a new player channel at the server so it's easier for them to find one another. would something like that be helpful to you?
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welCUM! new and active n nice ppl like u r always welcomed to the community.
the game itself is one of the oldest multiplayer games. quake war2 etc started all the shit. the player base iz very very unstable and arrogant. u just have to deal with it. u wont get playing with the old folks without being nice and just take the shit in the beginning. u just have to take it, deal with it, only way. u will get in, eventually. gl hf :]]
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Another suggestion I will say is to 1st complete both single player campaigns without using cheats before attempting to play with the online community.
This should give you enough skill to adequately play some games with the online community.
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MousEtopher, yeah, that new channel you mentioned would be really awesome. I feel there are many casual players propelled solely by their love for the game itself, with no desire to play competitively. I for one just want to share the game with a like-minded individual and have my little casual fun :)
RipE[Eur0], I see. Thank you for the introduction!
~ToRa~, I did that. Several times. It's not that hard, I've mostly played it for the story and completed all the campaigns more or less with ease. But this
This should give you enough skill to adequately play some games with the online community
...is simply not true.
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Did you beat beyond the dark portal to?
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ps. i guess u r a rusky! i must say u speak amazingly good english for a soviet boi. ;]]
edit.typ0
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~ToRa~ Only the human campaign. Didn't get around to the orc one.
RipE[Eur0], careful there, lest you anger the ancient Spirit of Indiscriminate and Ruthless Commie Might.
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there is a famous saying here in da artic circle:
one Finn = 10 ruskies.
the fact still holds.
fuk u slov.
only a socialist is too dumb to believe in that retarded shit.
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Jokes are not your strong suit, I reckon? ;)
Let me just casually finnish this discussion since it does not contribute to the community in any sensible way. Have a nice day.
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~ToRa~ Only the human campaign. Didn't get around to the orc one.
Well, 99% of players play Orc, and you probably will too as you start getting better at the game, play the orc campaign + expansion to master to get better at lusting at least
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Winchester - that makes sense, thanks. But I'm not sure there's anything important I don't know about lusting at this point - lust your ogres quickly before the attack, do the damage, run if owerpowered or if lust runs out. Probably some other situational things to take care of. I mean, playing a campaign (where you have to achieve mission-specific goals and take special care of your heroes to avoid insta-losing) probably won't be as helpful as just mashing game after game against computer (and eventually human) opponents on GoW (since everyone seems to play on that map). If I'm totally wrong, though, feel free to correct me.
Regarding orcs - I'm really not sure I'll get to that point. I mostly play humans and that's not going to change because I'd win more in pro matches if I went orc. I'd just stay on the level I'm comfortable at. Besides, I've seen people play humans and out-produce the enemy, and it made me think that perhaps humans are just misunderstood by the majority. Sure, ogre strikeforces are great. But healing (as a means of saving money on knights) and blizzard (as a means of crippling enemy mining) seem like decent powers if applied correctly.
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If you are able to host then host your own games bro. Have patience for people to come, and if not lets start working towards getting your hosting fixed. A lot of newbies out there just like you wanting to start out, just need the hosts.
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go to gulag man ;]]
just humour man.
ill fin"n"ish my greatness. Finland is superior compared to CCCP sorry, soviet union, sorry Putinland, sorry i mean Russia.
sorry. humour. ;:]]
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XuRnT, thank you for your reply!
Yes, I'll have to figure that IP issue out someday.
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I can help you attempt the port forwarding, just download Anydesk http://anydesk.com (http://anydesk.com) and hit me up @ discord whenever :>
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Try watching first-person vods on Youtube so you can get a feel for build orders, resource management and know maps better.
Also you could try to 1vs1 ~ 1vs7 computers on GOW (Garden of war) for practice when there aren't any games.
Here is one FPVOD of a very good humans player. I watched this plenty of times while I was trying to learn!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZGp-K7GaAk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZGp-K7GaAk)
Also here is a good YT channel:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDIc5r6iyPHmilgcydqnRuQ (http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDIc5r6iyPHmilgcydqnRuQ)
Also check out this website:
http://server.war2.ru/status/ (http://server.war2.ru/status/)
It shows who is online and what games are being played. You can save yourself from waiting for games when there aren't any being played!
Being a newbie isn't easy, but if you really like the WC2, you will soon get good enough to play/observe in most games!
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Lone, do you still have that warvid of you vs Paperboy where you were humans and did that 12/2 counter dual? that was a pretty sweet game that should be reuploaded.
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Mousey, do you use teamviewer?
Thank you for the links, Lone. Cool stuff.
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dwarf, don't bother. Unless you have some specific reason to play this game, it's not worth having to avoid the "pros". It seems as if they have dedicated their life to warcraft 2, and in their mind it is on the same level as football. Asking you about s9 is a very rude thing to do and is no way to grow a community.
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ibrockinsteve, what's s9? Sorry, I might be missing something.
You're right, I certainly do not have the means to become a pro right now. I liked the small part of this community I managed to get into, so I'll probably learn a thing or two just by hanging around -- but for now I'll definitely settle for casual games with my friends and online acquaintances. It is only right, in my opinion, that we should try and create an opening for "light" players.
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what's s9?
It's a common question asked in gow games to people suspected of being noobs. They simply say something like "Dwarf s9?" and if you don't answer quick enough you get booted/banned from the persons game.
s9 is a location on the map west of the middle, with a gold mine containing 30000 gold. The answer to this question is simply '30k' when you are asked.
People often move to s9 when they spawn at the bottom left location (8 for short).
It will take alot of patience to get used to this community, and it will be very time consuming since you will need to watch ALOT of games first just so you can learn your basic build orders, your building placements (On the exact square for wall-in and chokepoint purposes)
If someone decides to ally you knowing you are a noob in a 2v2 against 2 people who aren't noobs, then the best you can do until you get better is probably give your ally a bunch of guard towers so they can't get 2v1'd straight away (Which they will go for him first 80% of the time , since they know you are no threat, which is why alot of people complain about stacked teams)
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I see. Well, that's a nice way of filtering newbies - but I think you just broke the first rule of s9 :)
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Alot of people see the question get answered by someone else and copy them anyway, which is why the next noob filter question comes into play sometimes, which is "11?"
The answer to that is 65k by the way. its how much gold is inside the top left mine on garden of war.
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That's what you would call "security through obscurity" - the sheer amount of passwords makes you question the value of the prize ^-^
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Ripe is a white supremacist who also believes anyone not from his country, state, or city is inferior.
I'm pretty sure he struggles with the fact that he is a homosexual as well.
none of that is meant to be funny. that's what i believe to be true.
so.. pay him no mind.
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I have some training videos for Garden of War map .. on even faster speed.. you see me playing from my point of view and i give audio commentary as im going explaining as best i can what im doing and why im doing it. most newer players who watch them claim they have helped to a degree
http://www.youtube.com/user/ClanAbsoluteSynergy/videos (http://www.youtube.com/user/ClanAbsoluteSynergy/videos)
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Regarding orcs - I'm really not sure I'll get to that point. I mostly play humans and that's not going to change because I'd win more in pro matches if I went orc. I'd just stay on the level I'm comfortable at. Besides, I've seen people play humans and out-produce the enemy, and it made me think that perhaps humans are just misunderstood by the majority. Sure, ogre strikeforces are great. But healing (as a means of saving money on knights) and blizzard (as a means of crippling enemy mining) seem like decent powers if applied correctly.
The races are 99.9% the same, except that all else equal bloodlust will always allow orcs to completely wreck humans. There's no real reason to stubbornly play human and unless it's a known pro doing it as a gimmick it's basically a tip off that you're new.
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wow, i cant believe it he joined nedro.a good player that will let you play!gj!
am i the only one who still thinks humans are better? poscow wasnt letting viruz win...and i used to watch falkentyne and people talk in kali he had some dudes whinning.
(of course these are extremely great players!)
now if i can find some korean to play for me! ;D
yes man just go have fun and do the competitive scene when your ready or if you want to..it wont take to long to be a steady good enuff player for most games.
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it's basically a tip off that you're new.
To put it bluntly, I don't care. If playing as orcs (against my will) is required to "git gud" - I have no intention of gitting gud. After a couple of games today I completely realized that competitive games aren't for me, so I'll just hang around and play with my friends when they're available.
poscow wasnt letting viruz win
Viruz won Poscow, didn't he?
wow, i cant believe it he joined nedro.a good player that will let you play!gj!
Yes, I played with someone today. Probably a waste of time for that player :)
P.S. - the fact that letting a random player join a game makes you "good" is the reason I probably won't ever play this game competitively.
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Quote from: eyyy im walkin here on Today at 10:17:48 AM
it's basically a tip off that you're new.
To put it bluntly, I don't care. If playing as orcs (against my will) is required to "git gud" - I have no intention of gitting gud. After a couple of games today I completely realized that competitive games aren't for me, so I'll just hang around and play with my friends when they're available.
Quote from: easycompany on Today at 10:41:34 AM
poscow wasnt letting viruz win
Viruz won Poscow, didn't he?
Quote from: easycompany
wow, i cant believe it he joined nedro.a good player that will let you play!gj!
Yes, I played with someone today. Probably a waste of time for that player :)
P.S. - the fact that letting a random player join a game makes you "good" is the reason I probably won't ever play this game competitively.
« Last Edit: Today at 12:04:52 PM by dwarfighter »
yes viruz won but it was so close at alot of times.
yes they some nice dudes on the server...im back from a 1vs1 i got demolished lol.
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it's basically a tip off that you're new.
To put it bluntly, I don't care. If playing as orcs (against my will) is required to "git gud" - I have no intention of gitting gud.
Why is it against your will though? Why do you care? Grunt = Footman. Knight = Ogre. So why the attachment to the shitty race that doesn't have bloodlust? It says you don't care about properly playing the game as much as you care about pretending to be a human battling the orcish horde or something which is funny
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I don't need to explain that, but I will. "Properly playing the game"? Are you serious? Yes, you probably are. I don't care about playing "properly", this game isn't chess for me (though even chess has some values other than simply winning, otherwise there wouldn't be any sense in playing it). I play it because it has certain aesthetic values for me, and I just want to play with my IRL friends who share those values. For you, it does not matter because "Grunt = Footman" and you clearly limit your perception of the game to that. For me, this "shitty race" is the only race that I enjoy playing because I like how it looks and feels. Period.
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lots of good players enjoy humans. a couple play them/have played them in the past exclusively. it's just a different style. Orcs probably do have an advantage due to bloodlust, but i dont believe it's as large of an advantage as some like to pretend. to be a good human player, you need to develop an unconventional style. The style alone is enough to throw some players off their game... and when you throw the human's blizzard with invisible mages into the mix .. humans are pretty powerful in the hands of the right person. proof is in the viruz/poscow game. that game was 35 minutes long. the players were very evenly matched. they went back and forth all game. orcs vs humans. it says something about just how balanced the races are.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBzvSFZcx8w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBzvSFZcx8w)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEhcZhJo9J8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEhcZhJo9J8)
Viruz, shotgun, and poscow are all pretty evenly matched.. viruz just knows how to play humans.
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I agree. If we're talking about pro games, humans are balanced just fine - it just takes some actual brainpower to understand how to use their abilities and not rely on lust alone.
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lol that last video!! :'( 10/10!! on the production.
im humans also,some just wont understand.
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i watched the viruz vs poscow replay earlier today, great 35 minute game, viruz wins with humans. it wouldve been over in 12 if he was orc. viruz playing human = one of the best players of all time challenging himself
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Tell me, are you paid for wins?
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you need to be paid to not want to be a loser?
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Alright, that's enough. Let us end this pointless conversation.
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okay, fine, but to other new people, if you want good players to let you play in their games and include you so you can learn and get better, please repay the courtesy by doing the easiest possible thing and selecting the proper race.
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it's basically a tip off that you're new.
To put it bluntly, I don't care. If playing as orcs (against my will) is required to "git gud" - I have no intention of gitting gud.
Why is it against your will though? Why do you care? Grunt = Footman. Knight = Ogre. So why the attachment to the shitty race that doesn't have bloodlust? It says you don't care about properly playing the game as much as you care about pretending to be a human battling the orcish horde or something which is funny
it seems silly to say playing as human is "improper" as if your personal motivation of achieving absolute efficiency/competitive mastery is the only one that's valid. I agree with tk, they require a different a style of gameplay which is more nuanced & difficult to pull off but the variety & challenge of playing as them can be very fun & interesting. there are many gaming situations when it's not an absolute even match and thus the disadvantage of no bloodlust is the deciding factor. and there are people like dugs who play them a lot and aren't new, and I don't think they do it as a gimmick. incidentally, I've been human several times in multiplayer gow matches with random primarily gow players & never gotten bitched out for it, which is interesting.
also: the advice to new players to play as orc for the lust advantage is basically moot since they won't tend to live long enough to get to lust or know how to use it effectively if they do. it's useful for intermediate players though when they have basics but are still too weak on strategy to use humans well.
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for new people, imo it's just being decent in return to people letting you play for you to pick the better race, so if it gets to that stage you can help with lust. i always let newbs play in my games but sometimes ill ban them if they insist on being humans. come on, at least meet me halfway. the point isnt reaching some "peak efficiency," it's being able to cast bloodlust if the time comes so you can help your allies who all want to win. and the biggest thing is if they refuse to go orc it says to me theyre not willing to even make an effort to get better or listen to instruction. heres me saying, hey orcs are better go orc, and heres in my game some big newbie who gets banned from all the other games and doesnt really know how to play, and theyre like "nah i like the strong voices of the footmen." i wont spend my time trying to help someone like that because they have no interest in learning the game if theyre not willing to listen to the simplest possible thing from someone who is experienced
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And that's exactly why I won't be playing competitive. Like, never. But I got your point, and if I was that keen on playing with you - I'd choose orcs all the time just because you say they are so OP. Even though there's clear evidence to suggest they are not. Do you have healing to save resources on ogres? No, you do not. Do you have invisibility to harass enemy camps? No, you do not. Do you have polymorph to incapaciate enemy units for good? No, you do not. Do you have... nevermind. You only have lust, which you use all the time. You also have Runes and DKs with Unholy Armor and D&D, but I'd appreciate it if someone showed me an actual recording of someone using those effectively (in multiplayer. I've seen DKs wreck townhall-stationed armies of computer opponents, but that does not count).
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Haste and coil get used pretty frequently in games.
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D&D is used by plenty of orc players, along with haste. Unholy Armor unfortunately isn't. I usually get it if I have plenty of gold to spare though. I always research it when playing customs like chop though. Underrated spell.
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Most of the time a hasted dk can get the job done really well, which is why you don't see unholy armor that much. Unholy is a dece spell though. Heal is a really bad spell unless it's a water map or other atypical setting, in which case you can heal birds or mages and so on. It's still usually not that worthwhile healing the knights themselves though. That's the same sort of map where polymorph gets way more powerful too. If you're talking the right kind of map then humans are competitive with orcs actually. But on any open land war map it's not debatable. They're worse and it's not close
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in a free for all or something, where you just sit back and defend with blizzard and then snipe units with polymorph, humans are annoying af and are pretty good
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@dwarfighter if you ever do feel like learning how to play with orc's simply complete the single player mission.
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I understand. So you are aware of human strong sides, and you also know that there are map types where they work best. It is just pure coincidence that the most straightforward and, as a consequence, the most popular map favors the orcs. That's why we are where we are, with the majority playing orcs and rare people playing humans in non-standard situations. Sherlock out.
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yeah humans are okay on the less fun settings that people dont play often
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i honestly wouldnt feel comfortable saying orcs are better than humans.
Here's a theory ..
Early in the game's history the benefits of lust were realized.. and they are large benefits .. at that point, people kicked humans to the curb and collectively agreed they were inferior.
The game has evolved a lot since then ... people have been playing exclusively with orcs (generally speaking) for the overwhelming majority of war2's history.
Developing game play/strategy for humans has pretty much been non-existent. Which is one of the reasons i dont think you can say with certianty humans are inferior.
Another reason is because there have been/are some TOP players who use humans against other TOP players of pretty much equal skill level... I think most would agree Viruz, Shotgun, and POSCOW are essentially evenly matched assuming they all have the same level of activity. and viruz wins with humans.
being a human actually has a couple advantages if you think about it... You spend zero time bloodlusting, which gives more time for other areas of production/expanding/defense.. invisible mage is 100% effective.. orc's haste is not always a guarantee.. and if you play humans right, it's easy to "mind fuck" your opponent. it is extremely aggrivating/stressful playing someone who does sneak attacks with knights, then evades as soon as you lust your ogres .. it takes a mental toll on the orc player.
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being a human actually has a couple advantages if you think about it... You spend zero time bloodlusting, which gives more time for other areas of production/expanding/defense..
this is a big stretch heh
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ages ago there was one who feared no lust...oh how long before this hero returns :blank:
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explain how hawk, shoelace, dugz, ruz, swift.. and others manage to compete at the same levels when they use humans.
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it may be viruz lol ..yeah swift all the top players...theres just no way in hell i can compete physically if i had lust x20 with them,i got some human insiders but it must be shared with humans only.
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explain how hawk, shoelace, dugz, ruz, swift.. and others manage to compete at the same levels when they use humans.
bhc-hawk: because he never went late game and had strong micro and res management early
viruz and swift: because theyre the best two players
dugs: because his game is mostly harassment early on with pscouts and towers
shoelace: this guy always played orc
anyway it's not that humans CAN'T win, i mean even jordan has beaten swift before. it's simply that they're not as good.
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well are they as good as they was 10 years ago?falkentyne got took out to falkenitis to bad he didnt try to mentor.
thats the good thing about new players as it was foretold in warcraft1 book of medivh to bad he chose orcs >:( after gaining his mommy's knowledge well gone to jam ;D gotta role play with any young people make sure they go to bed by 9
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a solid human player can compete with a solid orc player just fine.. and the few videos i posted are evidence of it. *drops mic*
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, i mean even jordan has beaten swift before.
This isn't a fair representation. There's a story behind every series/ladder record.
Jordan has beat me a few times, but they weren't serious games. I mostly do gimmick strategies vs him (fast mages, archers + towers only, etc) and he occasionally wins. At one point, Jordan and a few others thought that he could win at least 1 out of 10 in a 'real' series. So we played a series, and he quit after 8-0 or 9-0. Jordan sucks at war2 but is cool as fuck and is 00's honorary member.
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what about coach teams trny's..if this game can gather enough new. get some new people give them the best and let them lose on each other
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swift. 2 things
1) jordan is a fucking idiot.
2) refer back to #1.
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What's jordan's 00 name?
Also how many times has TK beaten swift?
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*grabs dwarven popcorn*
Developing game play/strategy for humans has pretty much been non-existent. Which is one of the reasons i dont think you can say with certianty humans are inferior.
This is actually a very feasible theory. I bet that if someone actually tried "properly" playing humans, he'd soon find out they can pack a punch. That would be a different kind of punch, of course, but you can't disregard it simply because you're not used to it.
This whole topic makes me think: Imagine if Starcraft players discovered the "zerg rush" technique first and collectively refused to play anything but Zerg since it's so powerful (which it is, no doubt). There would, however, be players who would put effort in exploring the alternatives and using other races' abilities, which are equally powerful but less known to wide public. "Weird" and "self-obstructing" as they are, those people would be fairly competitive against the Zerg, and while they would lose to the Zerg because of the "rush", they would also win because of their own cool abilities and strategies. And something tells me that Zerg victories would be more prominent among the community because they're easier to understand.
Also how many times has TK beaten swift?
Guys, we need statistics. Some actual log-derived statistics. I'll see what I can do today.
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Oh and by the way,
Also how many times has TK beaten swift?
0.
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dwarfighter is assimilating well I see!
I agree w/ tk & dwarf's points, this seems like an Ender's Game type situation where humans are written off by everyone who isn't forward-thinking enough to play them creatively. it's objectively true that 9 knights < 9 lusted ogres in open combat but that just means you shouldn't expect to play them the same way you play orc.
for new people, imo it's just being decent in return to people letting you play for you to pick the better race, so if it gets to that stage you can help with lust. i always let newbs play in my games but sometimes ill ban them if they insist on being humans. come on, at least meet me halfway. the point isnt reaching some "peak efficiency," it's being able to cast bloodlust if the time comes so you can help your allies who all want to win.
//d are we talking seriously new players with like < 50 games? Realistically, how often is the deciding factor for the team's victory going to be when that person 1. manages to survive long enough to get bloodlust and 2. actually applies it in some valuable way? is that like 1% of the time? (that seems generous) It's understood in advance that playing with a newb makes the game unbalanced against your team, requiring them to conform to your race preference seems like a meaningless hoop to have them jump through
yeah humans are okay on the less fun settings that people dont play often
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c#)
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dwarfighter is assimilating well I see!
I agree w/ tk & dwarf's points, this seems like an Ender's Game type situation where humans are written off by everyone who isn't forward-thinking enough to play them creatively. it's objectively true that 9 knights < 9 lusted ogres in open combat but that just means you shouldn't expect to play them the same way you play orc.
But theyre otherwise the same race!! i feel like im taking crazy pills with u guys. A gow game aint gonna be decided by polymorph ever. invis doesnt make up for lust. an orc player can harass just as well as a human player. slow and heal arent worth the effort
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Hmm everyone just saw archers are bad because they shoot arrows slowly and die quickly so therefore hasnt used archers enough to discover and develop strong archer strategy. <-- no, archers are just bad. like humans!!
//d are we talking seriously new players with like < 50 games? Realistically, how often is the deciding factor for the team's victory going to be when that person 1. manages to survive long enough to get bloodlust and 2. actually applies it in some valuable way? is that like 1% of the time? (that seems generous) It's understood in advance that playing with a newb makes the game unbalanced against your team, requiring them to conform to your race preference seems like a meaningless hoop to have them jump through
this is missing my point which is that a new player that wont select the superior race isnt someone who is going to listen to anything i tell them or make any effort to cooperate and learn
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But you keep missing our points all the same. We kind of touched on the topic of humans having strong sides, and there wasn't really any doubt about that. Yet you proceed to cling to the word "superior". As I said, there's only one thing that can dissolve all this opinion-based crap and reveal the facts: statistics. I'm working on it, and it'd be much faster if war2.ru game reports were in a more comprehensible format. Quite busy right now so I should have some results within a week.
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But you keep missing our points all the same. We kind of touched on the topic of humans having strong sides, and there wasn't really any doubt about that. Yet you proceed to cling to the word "superior".
of course i am, because thats what orcs are. you people are running yourselves in circles trying to deny 1+1=2 and it's absurd
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People have been playing this game for 20 years, but I, some guy that started playing 5 days ago, know better
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Sigh.
I'm simply stating that your opinion is just your own. You know there are people who play humans and do it better than, for example, you. And when I say I'll go get the facts (i.e. statistical data from server logs) to find out what is actually true and what is not, you get all emotional. Well, sorries.
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I'm simply stating that your opinion is just your own.
it's not opinion it's fact bitch
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Grow up.
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Around 20 years ago, I played war2 at a thing called Kali! It is the forgotten age of competitive war 2 before Battle net exist!
At that time I would only play: Random as a race option.
Also I have to note that you could alter the speed of the game while playing by pressing -/+.
Slow IS MUCH MORE POWERFULL THAN LUST if you can micro and do it.
If you do not believe me just try it! 2 slowed lusted ogres die from 1 knight if you hit/run.
And yes at those golden ages that was a strategy that was used a lot!
I still do it at Water maps on EF. My micro sucks right now but you can see examples at this replay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33L61F7zSkA&t=31s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33L61F7zSkA&t=31s)
And I think everyone will agree that YWFN is a much much better player than me, but my Mage/Knight combo gave him a hard time at that game!
So I dare anyone to play a game at Fast speed with their opponent to be a decent micro user and have slow... Even at gow seeing your ogres frozen while the lust duration ends and the knights roaming freely! Is devastating!
Now, how many players can actually perform that? I guess only the tier 1 and masters. And yes it requires more micro and effort than lusting.
But that doesn't change the fact that there are viable strategies with Humans!
So dwarffighter!!! Goo learn how to use Humans and do Competitive gaming! Maybe you have it inside you to reach 400apm and divine micro ;-).
There are also other benefits on playing humans. Like exorcism! You can actually see the potential of exorcism if you play vs comps. Your DKs might never manage to be used (unless you have already significantly pressured the cpu).
Of course if you ask me about GoW EF. Yes there lust is what you need. You must pack a big transition gun especially for 1s.
If you are doing 4s though having 1 human player at a team might actually work even better. You know that lust can be casted to knights too ;-)
Go Humans!!!! If only I had the apm :-/.
Cheerios
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It's a lot easier to lust your own fighting units than to use a more vulnerable unit to slow your enemies ogres is the problem. Of course if you adjusted the speed well down there'd be more time for it, but in the settings people traditionally play (EF, Gow) it's a different story. When I say humans are unambiguously worse than orcs I don't mean in every possible setting that could exist, I mean in the settings that most often do. :)
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It's a lot easier to lust your own fighting units than to use a more vulnerable unit to slow your enemies ogres is the problem. Of course if you adjusted the speed well down there'd be more time for it, but in the settings people traditionally play (EF, Gow) it's a different story. When I say humans are unambiguously worse than orcs I don't mean in every possible setting that could exist, I mean in the settings that most often do. :)
Yes at those times we could alter the speed :-P orc players usually kept pressing the + while human players the - lol
It was like a speed war :-D
In the end you only needed a few seconds of slowest speed and 4 mages to have slowed 9 ogres. :-D
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I remember that hehe
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Blid is correct.
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Swift Says™
this is missing my point which is that a new player that wont select the superior race isnt someone who is going to listen to anything i tell them or make any effort to cooperate and learn
that's fair, but could be gauged just as well by talking to them & seeing how responsive they are. either way, the likelihood of any new player being able to cooperate or respond to orders is super low, there's just too much going on for them to keep up. think of the newbs like our children blid, the point in letting them play is so they can experience & discover the game freely, at their own pace. I disagree with attempts to mold them even before they've taken their first step!
When I say humans are unambiguously worse than orcs I don't mean in every possible setting that could exist, I mean in the settings that most often do.
which is a big shame in and of itself!
great post from Igog btw :)
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on sea i most def think humans are better.
lol igo
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(https://pp.userapi.com/c626227/v626227394/63641/x3cd1s_709M.jpg)
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i honestly wouldnt feel comfortable saying orcs are better than humans.
what an idiot. no wonder i always beat you at the only map you play while playing that map once a year
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anyway dwarfighter, you seem to have visual issues with orcs and it may impact your entire war2 experience. Perhaps you should consider asking some IT savvy to edit war2dat.mpq file for you so humans looks like orcs and orcs look like humans (be it units or buildings). then you could have nice paladins enjoying bloodlust spell
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Lol at claw. I thought about doing that but then humans op
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yeah my creativity ended at setting polish players face as graphic for peon and renaming it "nigger" or something
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The community so far has been uninterested in playing with a "noob"
After reading your comments, I suggest that you stay away from the "Garden of War" scene. Most players who play there are super specialized, know the map from memory, and only use one of a handful of optimal strategies, so obviously a new guy won't have a chance.
Some of us prefer to play water maps, where you'll see that a newer player has more time to set up a base etc. before being attacked; it also allows you to use some of the skills you learned during the singleplayer campaign that are never used in gow (such as managing oil, using transports and sea combat). Finally, in water maps humans are not in the same magnitude of disadvantage because they get more chances to use their magic (invisible transports, exorcism hit and run etc.)
I think at least twice a week some of us play a handful of 4 vs 4 on High Seas Combat, Fierce Ocean Combat, Ocean Bloom or similar maps
If you leave an email or something maybe I can contact you next time I play
See you on the server
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^^ that is true
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Claw, ha-ha. No. I don't have visual issues with anything. The game is a graphical masterpiece from top to bottom - coming from a guy who is no stranger to visual arts. I just prefer playing as humans, that's all. I think it's a legacy my father unknowingly left me, because he wouldn't play orcs in WC1 due to their weird visuals, different magic and shorter archer attack range - and I watched him play for hours instead of doing my homework.
SirClef, that is a great idea, I'd love to play water maps. Thank you. I believe you can email me through the forums - feel free to do that whenever you like. I'm also available on our Discord channel (https://discordapp.com/channels/184726412438142976), so if that works for you - great.
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Hey :)
Well i'm a new player online. I played a few matches since last week. I lose most of the times because there a lots of high skilled godlike mega ultra players :-X
But it's fun anyways. I create new maps and like to see them in action with good players.
I think we should invite more new players. WarCraft 2 should not be a thing for a little elite player group like a secret club or so.
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Aye.
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there a lots of high skilled godlike mega ultra players
Not really, alot of people just know there basics, a noob who knows there basics like walling in could do a 7vs1 against noobs who don't know anything quite easily. Once you learn and work on speed, (provided you don't leave due to the community) you'll be beating alot of these players
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I think we should invite more new players. WarCraft 2 should not be a thing for a little elite player group like a secret club or so.
+1
Anything you can do to help spread the word and bring in the crowd would be appreciated!