Warcraft II Forum
Warcraft II => Server.War2.ru => Topic started by: fois on March 23, 2020, 09:21:55 PM
-
New players can host their own games now without port forwarding which helped a lot. But I'm wondering what else we could change to improve the new player experience?
How do new players find each others games? What if we change the default game name for new players to "For beginners only" so they will be able to find each other?
We could also write a list with hints and each time they join a game it will display a random hint?
Any other ideas?
-
Closing the MPQ for public will be a great start, then make an add-on for hotkeys so everyone can play on the same level without little cowards who abuse the system.
-
I love the hints and tips upon joining. Would be great for noobs, like tk[as], to learn how to do basic rush builds etc!
-
What the game really needs is a sort of quick match making option.
A way for people to just queue up for a game and be matched based on their elo on a random ladder map.
Main issue for new players is to get games going simple as that, no one wants to wait in a lobby or in war2bne channel forever without knowing if they even will be able to play.
To better understand that problem try making a smurf and do not tell anyone who you are and try getting a game going see how long it takes if you are not at a peak hour.
I think more than anything else this is the main reason we struggle to make players stay.
See the good thing about an automatic match making is you can tell people roughly how long they may wait before they actually get a game and also they are "kinda" guaranteed to get one at somepoint.
Also an automatic match making based on elo would make elo more reliable since teams and players you face are not decided by the players themselves that would be an additional bonus.
:thumbsup:
As for the MPQ shortcuts and all this is raw data client side there is absolutely no way of "protecting" client side data, that is why most games today are server-side when they can afford to.
That said no one ever cared that much about this than you I never saw a new player complain about hacks ever. It is not like hacks are the one reason people loose their games.
In all the time I played on war2 on ru I encountered only one time a real hack and it made me laugh I wont say who it was but that was in free castle and man that bot was way over 2000 apm and he didnt need a fortress to make dragon lairs etc XD.
Most new players would loose even if they had infinite resources... I mean sure an addon to set shortcuts for everyone to use easily would be nice but I would not say it is a priority for new players at all...
Most of us haven't have edited our shortcuts and are still playing the game quite happily :P
-
In the same vein to try and minimize the time new players waste doing nothing when connecting to the game I wanted to have a look at war2 insight source code if we still have that somewhere to try and implement a real spectating mode for war2 see topic I posted in the Development section for more infos on that.
Having a more modern spectating mode would thus minimize idle time in the game for new players allowing them to watch games without being directly connected to the playing players and thus not impacting the lag etc... For this to work at least one player in the game would have to be running the program so it's not like they would be able to watch each and every single game so players that do not want to be watched can always just not run the program ofc.
So yeah anything we could do to try and minimize the waste of time for new comers would be imo a nbr1 priority since I do strongly believe this is the one thing war2 is suffering from.
-
Conor McGregor - "Who the fuck is that guy?" UFC 205 Press Conference - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFYwvr8ftgQ#)
-
I love the hints and tips upon joining. Would be great for noobs, like tk[as], to learn how to do basic rush builds etc!
I'll rush my fist into your newb face
-
What do we do about the newbs? Nothing because they are just newbs.
-
What do we do about the newbs? Nothing because they are just newbs.
Every one of us was a newb at one time. The future of this game is getting new players to stay and get good. Just because someone is a newb one day doesn't mean they will stay that way if people don't chase them off.
-
What do we do about the newbs? Nothing because they are just newbs.
Every one of us was a newb at one time. The future of this game is getting new players to stay and get good. Just because someone is a newb one day doesn't mean they will stay that way if people don't chase them off.
^^^^^^
-
Tk know alot about how important is to take cares of newbs, he still newb after 20 years. :salty: :salty: :salty:
-
Tk know alot about how important is to take cares of newbs, he still newb after 20 years. :salty: :salty: :salty:
Maybe instead of being an arrogant cocky mother fucker all the time you could try to help the game like you say you want to. Your constant toxicity to everyone doesn't help shit. Any new players who come to this forum just see some unstable Frenchman ranting about the same shit non stop. You aren't creating progress you need to chill out for real and be the good person you can be if you try...
-
(https://media.giphy.com/media/zfSFdr7lf63vi/giphy.gif)
-
What the game really needs is a sort of quick match making option.
A way for people to just queue up for a game and be matched based on their elo on a random ladder map.
Main issue for new players is to get games going simple as that, no one wants to wait in a lobby or in war2bne channel forever without knowing if they even will be able to play.
To better understand that problem try making a smurf and do not tell anyone who you are and try getting a game going see how long it takes if you are not at a peak hour.
I think more than anything else this is the main reason we struggle to make players stay.
See the good thing about an automatic match making is you can tell people roughly how long they may wait before they actually get a game and also they are "kinda" guaranteed to get one at somepoint.
Also an automatic match making based on elo would make elo more reliable since teams and players you face are not decided by the players themselves that would be an additional bonus.
:thumbsup:
As for the MPQ shortcuts and all this is raw data client side there is absolutely no way of "protecting" client side data, that is why most games today are server-side when they can afford to.
That said no one ever cared that much about this than you I never saw a new player complain about hacks ever. It is not like hacks are the one reason people loose their games.
In all the time I played on war2 on ru I encountered only one time a real hack and it made me laugh I wont say who it was but that was in free castle and man that bot was way over 2000 apm and he didnt need a fortress to make dragon lairs etc XD.
Most new players would loose even if they had infinite resources... I mean sure an addon to set shortcuts for everyone to use easily would be nice but I would not say it is a priority for new players at all...
Most of us haven't have edited our shortcuts and are still playing the game quite happily :P
Yeah automatic match making would be the best solution. I'm not sure if we can patch something like that into pvpgn/bnet though, If we would get rid of pvpgn and don't use any kind of bnet emulation and create our own interface with our own protocol then it would solve all these problems, but it would take a lot of game patches to pull that off. I will think about a possible solution though, maybe there is a way to get it done (won't be as nice as in newer games, but maybe it's good enough for us...)
Right now a more realistic solution is what I suggested above. Motivate new players to host their own games, give the games proper names to ensure other new players find the game. Make sure new players know they can press Alt+Enter to switch to windowed mode so they can watch a youtube video while waiting... I was already trying hard to make the waiting time less annoying with the Alt+Enter hotkey and the PlaySound plugin :)
In the same vein to try and minimize the time new players waste doing nothing when connecting to the game I wanted to have a look at war2 insight source code if we still have that somewhere to try and implement a real spectating mode for war2 see topic I posted in the Development section for more infos on that.
Having a more modern spectating mode would thus minimize idle time in the game for new players allowing them to watch games without being directly connected to the playing players and thus not impacting the lag etc... For this to work at least one player in the game would have to be running the program so it's not like they would be able to watch each and every single game so players that do not want to be watched can always just not run the program ofc.
So yeah anything we could do to try and minimize the waste of time for new comers would be imo a nbr1 priority since I do strongly believe this is the one thing war2 is suffering from.
il updated insight so he should have the code.
I never tried insight, isn't it very complicated to use? Like, you need to log in manually, you need to host a game manually and then you need to add computer players manually etc...? If it's as complicated as I think it is then no new player will use that... If there would be a replay file and you can just double click it to get booted straight into the replay with zero-config then I guess it would be a nice option for new players. There could be a launcher that lists all the live games and also allows you to browse old games as well.
-
Yeah insight is kind of a mess to setup since you have to host your own game and add the players yourself but it does offer some neat functionality once the game is started.
It makes me think we could have a version of it that "broadcasts" instead of recording to a file, allowing players to watch the game being broadcast almost live without impacting the game's lag directly.
Basically on the player side once we start that broadcast the new insight would send it's feed to the server that game feed will be stored for like 2 days.
People that want to watch a game can then start their insight and it would query the server for the games that can be watched putting the most recent ones first, you select the game you want to watch and then host it the way it is and voila you can watch it almost live.
Now yeah if we can find a way to make it auto host and launch the game for us without the user having to do it all that would be a nice bonus for sure :P
The cool part about this is for tournaments we could host tourneys on maps fully filled without having to take a spot to watch the games :-)
But I strongly agree with you imo the number 1 priority is some sort of matchmaking.
We could make it a bot thing where players queue up for a game and once a match is found they get whispered a game name and a password the bot hosts the game and if they do not show up for the game like after 5 minutes they take a loss or something like that.
That would be a in between solution I guess.
To queue up people would have to whisper the bot a command like /join and they would leave the queue by either leaving bnet or typing /abort if a game is found and they leave it is a loss.
Something like that. :slight_smile:
-
I ve played about 100 games since the 90s on RU. Honestly the players on here are just too good for new people and unfortunately not very welcoming.
I get it people don’t have unlimited time to play and having a new player on your team pretty much ensures you are going to lose.
It’s almost like you need a surge of new players who can have their own channel and play against each other. The skill gap Is high on here. I know the basics and understand the game pretty well and even I find it hard to play on RU.
Also since you are making updates to the game I have a suggestion ( might not be possible) is to change the mini map in game. The complete black fog of war makes it tough for new players. Also I think having something similar to Starcraft 2’s mini map would encourage more map variety instead of just GOW. Make it so you can see the map from the start of the game perhaps a lighter shade of grey and once explored it lightens up even more.
Figured I would share my opinion since I am probably the type of person this post is about.
-
I would say that if someone is brand new. It’s probably better to just send them to play on Babyshark’s USA server.
RU player base isn’t intrested in playing with new players. Once they gain some measure of skill on the USA server they can come back to RU to challenge their skills to get better.
-
New players need to reconize wich games they are joining…
The problem is the way players are dealing with this.
News join pro games and we dont wanna boot them because we wanna let them learn.
And sometime its even worst we let them play.
The fact is, it's destroying the games for everyone, pro players and new players..
Those new players who join pro players games should stay on channel untill more newb want to play…
If 4 newbs are in pro players games its 4 newbs less for newbe games.
So a match making would be great but if it's too much work there also another ez option.
Peoples write in there title what type of games it is, NEW, GOOD, PRO….
But most of them dont do it…
So here another option, you guys could make a new folder name (new players maps )in map creation, you can past all the actual maps inside it, and you probably can make a special logo to that folder, so when people create those map, people who join the lobby to see wich game are created can see that logo and know that game are is level.
-
new players kinda just need to learn the game, the new players have to be willing to improve their own experience
but do try and help them learn the game. have them make replays of their games and watch for their mistakes and see how the pro players play the game. and try to be aware if a new player joins the game and suggest them to watch a game or if you have time teach them some trick/tips. pro players need to tolerate having newbs and newbs need to tolerate getting their ass kicked. and if they lose tell them what they did wrong. didn't wall in when they saw the orge rush in or maybe they turtled up when they should have gone and scouted with footies/grunts. did they get towered rush and just panic instead of trying to build towers and hold off the towers until they got a cat out. maybe they don't have the right build order.
be nice and give nice words of encouragement. its just a game, play and have fun.
-
new players kinda just need to learn the game, the new players have to be willing to improve their own experience
Yeah that’s the thing isn’t it. If don’t think someone is trying to learn I lose interest in playing with them.
-
It's funny cause I've been testing out my war2 mod on war3 custom games as I go and implement new features and the players there pick it up crazy fast. On time I was 9 and the noob was 11 and I ot'ed him and he defended pretty good. I managed to finish his base off and kill him and thought the game was over, next thing I know he has towered the bottom of 9 and is killing my base. I was not expecting it and luckily had just enough res left over to expand to 11 and lost my base at 9. This was the guys first experience at war2 and he had no idea what he was doing. Pretty much every game I've had the opponent put up a good fight for a noob
If you want more players you should should maybe target your recruitment a little better. Also the idea of making fog of war transparent so you can see the terrain beneath it is not a bad one if you can manage it. It won't help players who know the map, but it will make it way easier for new players to pick it up.
-
For years, I have played with noobs and offered 1v1s to teach them and spent hours doing it. I even tell them to add me to their /F L and msg me when they are on next. Mikeballs is one of them, who seems to have been playing a bit for the last few months. Chubs or something like that was another but seemed to only last a month. Also, if they make smurfs themselves, that just hurts them. It is also discouraging to spend so much time with them to just have them quit.
Kudos to TK and Burnt for helping new people that I've seen. I'm sure others do too. That, in my opinion, is what an admin should do.
The problem is, and I'm gonna EQ it here, most people are fucking morons. Stubborn and lack common sense. If a brand new player comes on and joins a game, it's pretty simple.
Option 1: If it is a 4v4, put the best 3 players with the noob to balance teams. Most times, not all, this is a viable choice.
Option 2: If it is NOT a 4v4, just play uneven teams. Play 3v4 or 2v3 and let the guy build and do his own thing. Don't destroy him asap if you don't have to. He will most likely not effect the game at all and if he gets to the point where he can, then maybe he can start playing.
Option 3: Have them watch, tell them how, and give them a chance at least. Make sure they are responding. If they aren't, they will probably build.
Common hosts just boot them, which is the problem. The next problem is, and I will relate to the hosts on this, smurfing. People smurf, say they are new, then rape someone, which is another reason smurfs are kicked.
-
i have an idea
i shall become a warcraft 2 youtube with a goal for twitch viability
i have spent some time with 2 top tier sc2 streamers who clip and post to youtube
and also been giving my twitch prime to a non meta masters sc2 player
perhaps a future goal, a podcast, start it like the old bizatch (think it was him) who had alot of guys fill out interview question and posted them all, type interviews, perhaps the piolit episode would be a war2 retrospectrive
wouldnt it be cool to also advance to where the podcast had a community and game patches to talk about!
or atleast make videos to the former
i also have other idea for videos, again simple yet needed, again just pasting content format to address war2.
i see im logged on one of my smurfs
i play sc2 on this name i think
who do you think i am?
do you have faith in me?
this is good shit.
do you support this proposal?
do you know what a time sink this could be?
is it viable?
ill tell you who i am whenever i come back to check the thread.
let me ask you, what do you think of the current state of the current game, implimented features good/bad, ive never seen a patch whenever ive logged in myself. with things that have been in new builds of the game download ie music {FUCKKS SAKE FINALLY| , isnt pink hack now standard, hosting issues fixed i think? latency/conflict issues? etc..
gl hf
here is aclue to who i am
I am a Killer :peon: :wc2:
-
To help balancing games around it would also be nice to have a function or a command in lobby to check the current balance of the lobby :slight_smile:
Basically checking every player ELO in the lobby summing them up per team and giving an indice of the current balance in chat basically just a difference would suffice I guess.
That could help players and hosts balance teams and prevent them mad stacks that people end up leaving after 2 3 minutes...
As a host I know I would like having a tool like that in my lobbies to help me make games fair faster because sometimes it is just too hard to keep track of who is who and even when trying to do our best that would be a quicker way to check meaning we can hit that start button faster without having to check the peeps we don't know manually every time.
Also I do believe that is one of the reason people boot new players from their game because they don't want to bother manually checking etc...
That would be helpful not only for new players but for everyone since we do not have a proper match making that would be one way to get games going faster.
Was just thinking about that the other day, many things can still be done to improve yup.
Priority imo would still be to focus on minimizing the waiting time though but yeah...
There you go another idea for you :D
-
If you are serious around wanting new people to stay you probably need to give them their own ladder, even fixing the in game ladder as they most likely dont even know about ladder.war2.ru. I think it would really help if people only have one account also. I kick anyone name I don't know out of my matches because I don't want them to build or lag and fuck it up.
-
You can't balance games, playing with people who are new and blow simply isn't fun. Maybe advertise the twitches of good players more so newbies can go and see how they build, it's not a complex game. Also fix war2 tv
-
(https://media.giphy.com/media/oYtVHSxngR3lC/giphy.gif)
-
You can't balance games, playing with people who are new and blow simply isn't fun.
You would be surprised how fun it can be to play with new players sometimes:
Even decent players make pretty horrible mistakes but man this is still gold to watch :D
https://www.twitch.tv/trogallart/clip/ResolutePolishedSnailLitFam (https://www.twitch.tv/trogallart/clip/ResolutePolishedSnailLitFam)
Playing with archers because there is a new guy in the enemy team as well as in our team also makes sure we put something on the map that new players can deal with easily.
https://www.twitch.tv/trogallart/clip/CautiousEnjoyableBananaSoonerLater (https://www.twitch.tv/trogallart/clip/CautiousEnjoyableBananaSoonerLater)
Also a good moment to experiment some fun army compositions that would not work against stronger fows :D
https://www.twitch.tv/trogallart/clip/FlaccidMiniatureWatermelonSaltBae (https://www.twitch.tv/trogallart/clip/FlaccidMiniatureWatermelonSaltBae)
If we had elo of players in lobby would be much easier to balance smurfs are not a big deal because after like 10 games their elo reflects their level pretty decently anyways especially if people start to take elo into consideration when making teams.
Now if you really do not want new players in your games you can always host private games most of them wont even try to get in and if they do well this is a private lobby it is not like they will expect not to be shown the door :P
-
fun for you! Not for pro!
Like sg say newb need to have ther own challenges, there no fun for them to get crush inside of 3-4 minutes and there no fun for us to do that…
They need to have a better experience then just log on and get crush.
-
People that want to play games very seriously with people their level can always host private games no one forces them to play with new players.
Also no matter how good a new player becomes if you never play with him he will never get to the level you want players in your games to be.
Except he might because less selfish players than you, who actually care about the game like u8 will stream and actually will take on their time to help them improve, even going so far as playing some games with them occasionally.
I have seen many players ask u8 for 1v1 and unless he is busy he will almost always accept even if the guy asking is completely new.
Also stop talking about "Pro" and shitting with your butt higher than your head this is ridiculous no one can earn a living out of this game, war2 has under 500 active players.
There is nothing admirable to being good at a deserted game if you are being a dick about it. If you feel proud about yourself when you win at war2 in 2020 and that is all you have for yourself, I am sorry about you I really am...
See the thing I respect about u8, viet and these guys is yes they are good at war2 but most importantly they have a good time playing it and are polite, nice, and respectful to others no matter who they may be and how good at war2 they may be.
Ah yes sure u8 has edited his MPQ well I still rather have a guy like u8 around that always is nice with people and is having a good time typing fun stuff in chat and laughing when he fails or when his partner fails miserably with his own micro rather than people who run their mouth but never actually have an once of positivity.
I mean why the heck would you still comeback to a game that makes you so freaking salty and unhappy stop hurting yourself war2 is a game not a job there is nothing professional about it...
If you cant laugh at yourself or at your teamates when you or they fail miserably and if all you take out of that is frustration always being mad I do not understand why you would keep playing clearly you are wasting your time imo.
-
(https://media.giphy.com/media/l0MYu38R0PPhIXe36/giphy.gif)