Warcraft II Forum

Warcraft II => Server.War2.ru => Topic started by: LiveFreeorDie on June 21, 2018, 01:46:19 PM

Title: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on June 21, 2018, 01:46:19 PM
Seemed to make sense to make a separate thread since what we're talkin about isn't particularly anti-capitalist.

Ok lay out your rules and conditions.

I think:

1. We both stream nonstop
2. Mousey said she can be on hand to confirm IDs
3. Am I correct in thinking you mean we each give $250 (USD right?) to XuRnT and then winner gets $500?
4. Has XuRnT agreed to participate in the manner you described?
5. This could be fun.
6. So far you're much braver than Harrywangs, van, and Jordan4385 who fear me. I'm 10-0 vs each of em in my mind. :)
7. Saturday June 30, 2018 11 am?
8. We should have the maps and playing order set in advance. All maps are different, no repeats.

Ie.
1. Tora pick
2. BS pick
3. Tora pick
4. BS pick
5. Tora pick
6. BS pick
7. GOW

We play all 7 games regardless of score.
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on June 21, 2018, 06:44:52 PM
This is what I propose for map selection. Everything high EF.

We each make a list of 10 and the opponent chooses 3 from the 10.

Here's my list:

Rose Petal
Great White North
Gold Rush
All You Need
Forest Trail
Fierce Ocean Combat
Schwartzwald
Zones
Ramparts
Mr. Bean

So you could pick from these any 3 you like that will count as my picks and you'd provide a list of 10 and I'd pick 3 from there.

If you'd rather do standard selection, that's fine. Any ladder legit map.



Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: ~ToRa~ on June 21, 2018, 08:03:56 PM
Here are my terms,

We play bo7 KOTH on standard High/EF settings with the 1st map being Garden of war classic. From there loser picks any blizzard made map no (mutton), until someone gets 4 wins.
 We both paypal @XuRnT $250 making a total of $500, however whoever wins only collects their original $250. Xurnt gets to keep $250 to use for a future tournament.

I play war2 on an old thinkpad which cant stream, so streaming is out on my end.
Also the day and time is to be changed to 04/01/2018 at 12pm Eastern time.
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on June 21, 2018, 09:01:59 PM
Also let’s change the bet to a cash bet. Let’s say $250 each? Xurnt can hold onto it and stream the games.

That's not really how a cash bet works. The way it works is winner takes all.

What would motivate me to put in $250 that I may lose with no possibility to win anything lol?

Winner takes $500 and then if you win, you have the option to donate wherever you like.

KOTH style is fine with me. That differs from what I proposed in that whoever loses will pick the next map, rather than each of us selecting an equal number, correct? Potential map choices should be listed beforehand so as to avoid wasted time on the day of, since I've had people get into arguments about maps even when they previously okayed the maps multiple times.

I'll play anything, but I know most people are a lot more hesitant when it comes to map variety. I'll even play BigEars, Mutton, WizWar, Oil is the Key, or whatever other crap you can pull out of the closet so long as it's random start spots.
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: ~ToRa~ on June 21, 2018, 09:25:41 PM
That's not really how a cash bet works. The way it works is winner takes all.

I could care less about winning a bet against you. Or proving who is better at war2 for that matter.
If I do this it will be for the sole purpose of providing entertainment to the server and promoting future activity.
My thinking was to 1s u in this series and then have some top tier players have a series around 2pm Eastern the same day.
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on June 21, 2018, 10:17:53 PM
Also the day and time is to be changed to 04/01/2018 at 12pm Eastern time.

Do you have the flux capacitor?
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: ~ToRa~ on June 21, 2018, 11:32:02 PM
Tell you what BS, next time you see me online and im not hosting for people ask me for a 1v1.
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on June 21, 2018, 11:43:53 PM
Are you withdrawing your bold $250 bet offer with proceeds going to winner?
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: ~ToRa~ on June 21, 2018, 11:51:51 PM
Are you withdrawing your bold $250 bet offer with proceeds going to winner?

?..$250 is nothing.
Why u acting like it’s a big deal.
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: ~ToRa~ on June 21, 2018, 11:55:32 PM
You called me out right? I gave you my terms. Do you accept?
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on June 22, 2018, 12:59:58 AM
If I win, you give me $10000000000000000, if you win, you give me $1000000000000000000.

Do you accept?
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: ~ToRa~ on June 22, 2018, 01:25:29 AM
I was serious about playing against you next weekend. Reason I wanted to change it to Sunday was cause know Xurnt has off Sunday.

Clearly you aren’t serious thou. Gg no remake.
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on June 22, 2018, 02:52:10 AM
I was serious about your original offer. We both put in $250 via XuRnT according to you and winner takes the pot.

I was serious about Saturday. I'm not available Sunday at 12.

I can do a weekday morning early, any weekday 5 am - 7 am. I can often be available for evenings. I can be available some weekends. I'm very flexible. We can find a time that works.

The offer to possibly lose $250 with nothing to gain is ridiculous and laughable. Who would play at the casino if you can't win anything, only possibly get your original money back?  ???

Are you in or are you out? If you want to work with my original offer, that's possible as well. You are the one who brought up a $250 bet and I was seriously accepting your offer, but then you changed your mind and tried to come up with some kind of ludicrous and laughable offer where I might lose $250 and stand to win nothing. What's the point of that?
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: ~ToRa~ on June 22, 2018, 02:54:54 AM
The offer to possibly lose $250 with nothing to gain is ridiculous and laughable. Who would play at the casino if you can't win anything, only possibly get your original money back? 

Lol, im sorry babyshark is $250 a lot of money for you?

How about we lower the wager to say $100 to make it less cumbersome for you.
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on June 22, 2018, 03:00:29 AM
You are the one who set the amount. I agreed. Then you ran.

I was wrong in thinking you were braver than the van/Harrywangs/Jordan4385 hit and run gang.
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: ~ToRa~ on June 22, 2018, 03:14:38 AM
Whats so wrong with donating money to the server? Your clearly struggling financially. How irresponsible of you to try and wager money you don’t have on a video game.
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: ~ToRa~ on June 22, 2018, 03:21:01 AM
Are we done here? if so I think i'll host a tournament with the $250 I was planning for this wager.
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: Szwagier on June 22, 2018, 03:30:28 AM
I think its better if winne take 250 + maybe half 125, with 125 user is obliged tom make Tour
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: ~ToRa~ on June 22, 2018, 03:40:58 AM
I think its better if winne take 250 + maybe half 125, with 125 user is obliged tom make Tour
If you read Babyshark’s posts she is making a big deal about the $250 wager which indicates it’s a lot of money for her. Which means it’s probably not a good thing to wager with.
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on June 22, 2018, 03:57:19 AM
I am comfortable playing your original offer.

We both give $250 to XuRnT, winner takes all.

You were very bold with your initial offer, and I'm still game for it. It looks like you're flaking out on me.

I can arrange to be available Saturday June 30th or Sunday July 1st but I won't be home until the afternoon that day.
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: ~ToRa~ on June 22, 2018, 03:59:47 AM
I am comfortable playing your original offer.

We both give $250 to XuRnT, winner takes all.

You were very bold with your initial offer, and I'm still game for it. It looks like you're flaking out on me.

I can arrange to be available Saturday June 30th or Sunday July 1st but I won't be home until the afternoon that day.

You were the one that requested this match up. Don't try to spin it like I asked for it.

If you don't like my terms log on one morning and ask me to 1v1 you. I said I would.
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on June 22, 2018, 04:12:01 AM
Tora, I have a great idea. :)

Let's do a 1v1 assorted map series 7 games, each of us picks 3 ladder legit maps (including Mr. Bean and Zones which are now valid) and GOW can be the 7th, no map repeats.

Loser isn't allowed to post on forum for the entire month of July.

You in?

^^ill play u if u want. Mind you I only play in the mornings now.
Monday 10am ok?

I'm not available weekday daytimes at 10 am, but I could do 6 am Monday or this Saturday at 7 am EDT? I have tennis at 9 am but could get a good chunk of them done by then hopefully. Other than that I can do a later evening.

I’m going to Boston this weekend so maybe next weekend? I don’t play video games after 12-1pm usually. Occasionally I do log on late at night but it’s not my preferred time of gaming.

Also let’s change the bet to a cash bet. Let’s say $250 each? Xurnt can hold onto it and stream the games.

Definitely sounded like you asked for a $250 cash bet involved. It's a fun idea. Let's do it.
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: Lambchops on June 22, 2018, 04:18:36 AM

?..$250 is nothing.
Why u acting like it’s a big deal.


$250 is a lot of money to me. WC2 isn't a card game where you can buy your way out of a bluff.... or is it?

The original challenge was for one or the other of you to keep your big flappy traps shut for a while, which seems like far more appropriate stakes than something you say is "nothing".

How am i doing with my pro trolling? ;)
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: O4L on June 22, 2018, 05:55:56 AM
BabyShark was getting really good at 1vs1 last time we played. I bet Tora has too. Would be fun to watch.. Especially if @Cel shows up for the party.

@Nedro would be cool but I'm not the one who can make that happen.
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: Igognito on June 22, 2018, 09:29:01 AM
That would be a fun match up!
Especially, on a map variety.
Tora statistically speaking has better chances to win the GoW match, but on other maps the story will be different!

I also feel that it is unfair to put money and have no reward back. But I also think that the winner donating part of the money makes sense.
Thus I suggest a that 80% of the amount goes to winner 20% to the server. (The amount you can agree upon)
I wouldn't wage 250$ on a game even if I knew I would win...
I would 50$ (or 50€) that would be my top limit.

So with 50$ it would be 80$ for the winner 20$ for the server! fair enough I think ;-)

Tora, at least use warvid to record the game so that later we can make a commentary from your pov if we want.

I'm rusty as I haven't played for a some time now and certainly not seriously, but if you want to organize mid level 1v1 challenges I would be game :-D

Rules KOTH, bo7, we start with GoW EF High, each players suggest 5 different than GoW maps and settings for each to form a GoW EF High + 10map/setting pool
If two suggested maps are the same then both players have to choose another map :-D

I would wage 10$ for each challenge with 80% to the winner 20% to the server.
If we do 8 challenges that would be a total of 32$ to the server.

That could be an interesting challenge tournament that would actually collect money for the server without hurting our pockets severely!
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on June 22, 2018, 10:00:20 AM
Tora statistically speaking has better chances to win the GoW match

Where do you get this?

I looked up ladder record on all his akas I can recall and our record on GOW is

Tora 2
BabyShark 3
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: ~ToRa~ on June 22, 2018, 10:52:48 AM
Tora, I have a great idea. :)

Let's do a 1v1 assorted map series 7 games, each of us picks 3 ladder legit maps (including Mr. Bean and Zones which are now valid) and GOW can be the 7th, no map repeats.

Loser isn't allowed to post on forum for the entire month of July.

You in?

^^ill play u if u want. Mind you I only play in the mornings now.
Monday 10am ok?

I'm not available weekday daytimes at 10 am, but I could do 6 am Monday or this Saturday at 7 am EDT? I have tennis at 9 am but could get a good chunk of them done by then hopefully. Other than that I can do a later evening.

I’m going to Boston this weekend so maybe next weekend? I don’t play video games after 12-1pm usually. Occasionally I do log on late at night but it’s not my preferred time of gaming.

Also let’s change the bet to a cash bet. Let’s say $250 each? Xurnt can hold onto it and stream the games.

Definitely sounded like you asked for a $250 cash bet involved. It's a fun idea. Let's do it.

The General section of the forum I mainly troll in.

You brought up the 1v1 series and made a thread here in the main section. I have no interest in winning any money from you. And I care even less about proving who is better at war2.

If we do this it would be for the purpose of promoting the server.
$250 is not a lot for me personally. If it’s too much for you I don’t have an issue with lowering the wager to something more manageable for you personally.
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: Lethal~Machete on June 22, 2018, 12:36:10 PM
Tora are you some kind of internet retard? BS isn't complaining about the money but it seems that you have a big problem with it.
 
She's telling you that she’s fine with the amount of money, I know it’s not a problem for her to pay that.

You keep saying that she doesn’t have the money. I’m pretty sure she does.

BS can definitely win against you and maybe that’s the reason why you’re scared of her and trying to flake out.
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: ~ToRa~ on June 22, 2018, 12:57:55 PM
Never said she didn't have it.

Babyshark called me out to play a 1v1 series in the General section

Tora, I have a great idea. :)

Let's do a 1v1 assorted map series 7 games, each of us picks 3 ladder legit maps (including Mr. Bean and Zones which are now valid) and GOW can be the 7th, no map repeats.

Loser isn't allowed to post on forum for the entire month of July.

You in?

I said okay. But let's play for a different bet. A cash bet.

Also let’s change the bet to a cash bet. Let’s say $250 each? Xurnt can hold onto it and stream the games.

That thread is a classic troll thread nothing in it is to be taken seriously. Babyshark then made a serious thread here in the server section and laid out these terms.
1. We both stream nonstop
2. Mousey said she can be on hand to confirm IDs
3. Am I correct in thinking you mean we each give $250 (USD right?) to XuRnT and then winner gets $500?
4. Has XuRnT agreed to participate in the manner you described?
5. This could be fun.
6. So far you're much braver than Harrywangs, van, and Jordan4385 who fear me. I'm 10-0 vs each of em in my mind.
7. Saturday June 30, 2018 11 am?
8. We should have the maps and playing order set in advance. All maps are different, no repeats.

She asked me if "she was right is thinking that the winner would receive $500." She was not. That was not what I was thinking at all. I then laid out my own terms on how this 1v1 series would be played if it happened.
She is requesting to play against me so I think it's fair for me to lay out the terms, you disagree?

Here are my terms,

We play bo7 KOTH on standard High/EF settings with the 1st map being Garden of war classic. From there loser picks any blizzard made map no (mutton), until someone gets 4 wins.
 We both paypal @XuRnT $250 making a total of $500, however whoever wins only collects their original $250. Xurnt gets to keep $250 to use for a future tournament.

I play war2 on an old thinkpad which cant stream, so streaming is out on my end.
Also the day and time is to be changed to 04/01/2018 at 12pm Eastern time.

I'm not really interested in going back and forth on such a petty issue. But it does look like the $250 was the thing holding her back from playing this series. She made multiple immature posts on the issue after initially saying that she didn't want half the winnings to go toward a future Xurnt tournament.

That's not really how a cash bet works. The way it works is winner takes all.

What would motivate me to put in $250 that I may lose with no possibility to win anything lol?

Winner takes $500 and then if you win, you have the option to donate wherever you like.


Are you withdrawing your bold $250 bet offer with proceeds going to winner?



If I win, you give me $10000000000000000, if you win, you give me $1000000000000000000.

Do you accept?

Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: ~ToRa~ on June 22, 2018, 01:01:27 PM
I don't have any issue's just playing against her for nothing. Sounds like this whole money thing has become a big issue.

Tell you what @BabyShark we play a 1v1 series if I win I donate $250 to Xurnt for a future tournament. If you win you don't post on the forum for the month of July. Deal?
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: ~ToRa~ on June 22, 2018, 01:09:21 PM
Or maybe the wager should be changed in entirety.

U8 had an idea once of making a "newb" icon and making the loser of a series wear it.
We can have mouse make a Bright Pink "newb" icon and the loser has to wear it for a week.
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: Szwagier on June 22, 2018, 01:36:40 PM
Or maybe the wager should be changed in entirety.

U8 had an idea once of making a "newb" icon and making the loser of a series wear it.
We can have mouse make a Bright Pink "newb" icon and the loser has to wear it for a week.
ONLY ALF-ATTACK, BRAVIET AND YWFN SHOULD WEAR IT!

and alf-attack lost it, he didnt wear it!
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on June 22, 2018, 02:22:43 PM
Ok. Let's combine it all.

1. Loser pays winner $250

2. Loser doesn't post on forum for July

3. Loser donates $250 for future tournaments

4. Loser wears a pink NEWB icon for one year.

I'm in.
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on June 22, 2018, 02:24:08 PM
Tora are you some kind of internet retard? BS isn't complaining about the money but it seems that you have a big problem with it.
 
She's telling you that she’s fine with the amount of money, I know it’s not a problem for her to pay that.

You keep saying that she doesn’t have the money. I’m pretty sure she does.

BS can definitely win against you and maybe that’s the reason why you’re scared of her and trying to flake out.


Lol. 100% agree with this post.
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: ~ToRa~ on June 22, 2018, 02:37:16 PM
Lethal is your husband so his opinion is invalid. You are by far the most toxic personality on this forum. Most users would agree with that statement.

Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: Szwagier on June 22, 2018, 02:45:04 PM
Ok. Let's combine it all.

1. Loser pays u8 $250

2. Loser doesn't post on forum for July

3. Loser donates $250k for future tournaments

4. ALF-attack wears a pink NEWB icon for one year.

I'm in.
FIXED
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on June 22, 2018, 02:54:57 PM
Lethal is your husband so his opinion is invalid. You are by far the most toxic personality on this forum. Most users would agree with that statement.

Actually the word of a husband is worth the word of two women...or do you not really believe the Qu'ran?

Define toxic.

You made a cash bet offer. I accepted. You ran. Just because you don't like being identified as a coward doesn't make me toxic.

If you don't like that you're a coward, stop being one.

Come play me, even according to my original cash-free offer: 7 different map we each pick 3, 7th is GOW. Loser forum squelched for a month.

Or we can play your original offer $250 from loser to winner via XuRnT.
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: ~ToRa~ on June 22, 2018, 03:00:07 PM
It’s off your too childish and toxic.

I care less about winning at a video game then you realize. You made huge fuss when I said lets not collect money from each other.

Look at you now attacking me for my religions beliefs lol.

Grow up.
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on June 22, 2018, 03:06:40 PM
Lol.

Need some tissues?

I actually just came up with a new challenge idea for someone who has the balls to play challenges.

1v7 @Szwagier Want in? :)
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: Szwagier on June 22, 2018, 03:22:21 PM
? its impossible win so i got no idea what you want see
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: Lethal~Machete on June 22, 2018, 06:39:12 PM
Lethal is your husband so his opinion is invalid. You are by far the most toxic personality on this forum. Most users would agree with that statement.


Lol, I'm not her husband, I'm a regular war2 player and a friend of BS and I can tell you that she isn't toxic at all.

None of the users would ever say she's toxic.

Really toxic players are Yamon, Van, and 80% of the crap that play war2.. which happen to be your friends and I never see you complain about them, not even when you were an admin.

You're just a newb coward.
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: ~ToRa~ on June 22, 2018, 06:49:44 PM
^^lmfao. Your troll game is weak.

Fyi a simple post check will quickly reveal your lethal~viruz. BS has indicated she is married to you your saying thats not true?
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: Lambchops on June 23, 2018, 03:50:36 AM
@Lambchops 

What makes anyone else's mouth more big and flappy than yours? You're a bit of a "keyboard warrior" yourself, eh?

haha definately but I like to keep my promises so I would never make a bet that involves keeping my big mouth shut ;)
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: Disgruntled on June 24, 2018, 12:27:25 AM
tora wins, no contest
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on June 24, 2018, 12:52:55 AM
Unfortunately he is too scared to find out.

I'm actually ahead 9-8 in our few 1s we've had (combining all of his akas that I know of), so he has good reason.

But really, either one of us could have won. I think about 50/50. Woulda been fun.
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: ~ToRa~ on June 24, 2018, 10:42:33 AM
Unfortunately he is too scared to find out.

I'm actually ahead 9-8 in our few 1s we've had (combining all of his akas that I know of), so he has good reason.

But really, either one of us could have won. I think about 50/50. Woulda been fun.

I play ever morning log on one morning and ask me to 1v1
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: Disgruntled on June 24, 2018, 11:42:56 AM
Unfortunately he is too scared to find out.

I'm actually ahead 9-8 in our few 1s we've had (combining all of his akas that I know of), so he has good reason.

But really, either one of us could have won. I think about 50/50. Woulda been fun.


wow 8-9... im shocked really.
would have been a sweet matchup..
perhaps it will still happen
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on June 24, 2018, 12:51:59 PM
@Disgruntled

Didn't realize Tora had ever beaten you. Checked your ladder rec 4-2. My fear of you just plummeted drastically. ;)

Whatddya say you and I do a 10 map series, each of us brings 10 maps to the table and each choose 5 from the other's list of 10? Just for fun. :)

Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: ~ToRa~ on June 24, 2018, 12:54:55 PM
Look up games Tora vs Babyshark there are none.

She has only played me late at night when I was smurfing and intoxicated.
Babyshark wouldnt win when I play on normal during the day.
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: LiveFreeorDie on June 24, 2018, 01:34:16 PM
http://ladder.war2.ru/games.php?player1=babyshark&player2=%7Etora%7E&Search=Search (http://ladder.war2.ru/games.php?player1=babyshark&player2=%7Etora%7E&Search=Search)
http://ladder.war2.ru/games.php?player1=cherrycoke&player2=babyshark&Search=Search (http://ladder.war2.ru/games.php?player1=cherrycoke&player2=babyshark&Search=Search)
http://ladder.war2.ru/games.php?player1=wizeman&player2=babyshark&Search=Search (http://ladder.war2.ru/games.php?player1=wizeman&player2=babyshark&Search=Search)
Title: Re: ~Tora~ v BabyShark
Post by: Disgruntled on June 25, 2018, 10:59:48 AM
@Disgruntled

Didn't realize Tora had ever beaten you. Checked your ladder rec 4-2. My fear of you just plummeted drastically. ;)

Whatddya say you and I do a 10 map series, each of us brings 10 maps to the table and each choose 5 from the other's list of 10? Just for fun. :)


abso tolean wootly

edit: i should have time to compile my list this eve.

old gowef
hoppy hsc (no bne)
gseps (L? bne w/e)
nwtr (<3 unu)
isolation
twin harbors.. (one weird folder accepted?)
gold mines
spiral bne
rivers (semosentas rocks)
violent voyage (any version)