Warcraft II Forum
Warcraft II => Server.War2.ru => Topic started by: xXxSmeagolxXx on September 08, 2015, 12:17:35 PM
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Blid how exactly is PBall not Warcraft 2? Every custom that doesn't come with the game or at least all that have altered unit properties wouldn't be Warcraft 2 either by that logic. Look at the many maps released by Blizzard themselves Sparta, Instant Action, Minas Tirith, many more they are only or primarily unit fighting maps like PBall except units have hit points. Over the years there have been so many different customs with different unit properties or objectives, that's what Blizzard intended by including a map editor. PBall and all customs get people interested in the game and coming back to the server, many then get into playing GOW or BNEs. Customs and PBalls are the reason for the map editor so people could create their own games within Warcraft 2, they use the same units and the same game, I see no reason why PBall "Would not be Warcraft 2."
Note: This is why Tk[as]'s post about how splitting posts is ridiculous is relevant in some circumstances. Blid and Winchester were already talking about PBall on the forum split topic, and I replied to Blid and this gets made into a separate topic. The same way that Il asked what admins could I answered and it turned into a discussion on the anti hack post(this one I can see splitting though.) Blid, Winchester, and Equinox were already talking about PBall replying to that is how the thread naturally evolved.
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This is what blids skull is made out of...
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/7f/c6/b4/7fc6b48b5fdc24970ad543332c1e8852.jpg)
Don't waste your time reasoning with him [emoji10]
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Blid how exactly is PBall not Warcraft 2? Every custom that doesn't come with the game or at least all that have altered unit properties wouldn't be Warcraft 2 either by that logic. Look at the many maps released by Blizzard themselves Sparta, Instant Action, Minas Tirith, many more they are only or primarily unit fighting maps like PBall except units have hit points. Over the years there have been so many different customs with different unit properties or objectives, that's what Blizzard intended by including a map editor. PBall and all customs get people interested in the game and coming back to the server, many then get into playing GOW or BNEs. Customs and PBalls are the reason for the map editor so people could create their own games within Warcraft 2, they use the same units and the same game, I see no reason why PBall "Would not be Warcraft 2."
Well, I mean, obviously pball is War2 in that it's made with the War2 map editor and played on the War2 engine, but the game has nothing really in common with regular Warcraft gameplay: resource gathering, town building, unit creating. That's why I say it's a different game.
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Like Lance pointed out in another thread PBall shares one of the main aspects with GOW games unit control. Magic use and unit control used in PBall can transfer to GOW, you get used to quick reactions and using magic well. As for unit creating there is many PBall maps with barracks and other buildings to create units. Also there is PBall build where you gather wood and make towns and men. PBall without build often has ways to create units, but PBall shares the same thing all Warcraft 2 does unit control. The only thing really missing from basic PBall is unit gathering but there is PBall build.
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lance is wrong then, and so are you - unit control on "real" maps is done with units with actual health pool. Pball may have its own version of unit control, but its a lot different! An example of a "real" unit control in a custom would be a chop chop catapult war, which is useful in s9 vs 9 cata wars or nwtr for example
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Nwtr is barely a BNE map lmao. Using that as an example is a sad justification of chop helping on BNEs, though I'm sure it does in ways. Any magic you use in PBall is going to correlate directly to BNE magic. If you learn to use blizzard / death n decay in 420 PBall etc you're going to know how to use it effectively in BNEs as long as they know the spots to hit, but the actual use will be the same. If you are trying to make a concentrated ogre or footman rush in GOW you will do that much easier if you've played PBall you'll know how to rush in groups. You often have to run your men back to save them and send in a fresh wave to meet /surprise the pursuers a strategy that can be useful in BNEs as well. PBall is unit control a lot of quick reactions also you will learn to react quickly and can build your APM up. You don't do all of the same things you do in a BNEs in PBalls but you learn magic, grouped attacking, cycling units, and you learn to react quickly.
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Yes pball "has spells" but the components of the game I mentioned (resource gathering, town building, unit creation) are the backbone of RTS play. Pball doesn't have any of it. It is what it is
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Nwtr is barely a BNE map lmao. Using that as an example is a sad justification of chop helping on BNEs
alright, then s9 vs 9 and 9 vs 11 cata wars. And basically any other position where cata micro is required, for example breaking a dual. See? happy? Dont you straw man me only because i insulted your pball, ive spoken the truth and it really wont work.
using stand ground or avoiding fireballs (rotfl) with 1 hp units is a skill absolutely not connected to GoW in any way, shape or form
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Claw using stand ground or avoiding fireballs neither were mentioned in the set of the skills I mentioned, talk about a straw man lmao. Magic use, grouping and cycling units, and building APM / quick reactions are connected to GOW in a way shape and form.
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Blid unit creation I already explained is wrong there are plenty of normal PBalls with unit creation. You are right that normal PBall doesn't have town building or resource gathering though. There is PBall build though examples: PBall Build Bob, PBall Build Balanced, Build n Battle. Like I said Blizzard had many maps released with the game that are only unit fighting, even campaign missions with only unit fighting. Call it what you like but Warcraft is any game played on the video game Warcraft 2: GOW, BNE, CHOP, BGH, Cats n Ratz, Arena, Archers, Space Knights, RPG, PBall it's all Warcraft 2 and the variety makes the game great. PBall without build is definitely different then BNEs because you don't gather resources, but Blizzard released many BNE maps the same way.
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Claw using stand ground or avoiding fireballs neither were mentioned in the set of the skills I mentioned, talk about a straw man lmao. Magic use, grouping and cycling units, and building APM / quick reactions are connected to GOW in a way shape and form.
frankly i didnt even read your post after reading the part i quoted. Thought theres nothing of value later on.
The middle part about "rushing in groups" is false, its more about attack moving effectively through built farms, moving the units that are HURT to switch the target etc, the core of BNE unit control and core of pball "unit control" are different things
You often have to run your men back to save them and send in a fresh wave to meet /surprise the pursuers a strategy that can be useful in BNEs as well.
Wow, that may be accurate, so there you go, pball just covered 0.0001% of gow skills!
PBall is unit control a lot of quick reactions also you will learn to react quickly and can build your APM up
that can be said about anything, not even war2 related. It doesnt support the statement "pball is the real w2" at all
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Playing Warcraft 3 and being quick with unit responses is probably not going to directly translate to Warcraft 2. If can effectively grab the right units, create groups, use magic well, react to attacks ON WARCRAFT 2, that is going to help in a BNE. You act like controlling BNE or Chop units is some alien thing to PBall they are the same units, PBall takes more finesse to keep them alive though. Lastly your statement doesn't support the fact it isn't Warcraft 2, also don't quote me on something i obviously didn't say. "pball is the real w2" are you high? I said PBall was Warcraft like any other game not "the real w2". Footman Frenzy, Archers, Space Knights, Free Castles, on and on all maps with changed unit properties or no resource gathering are they not Warcraft 2 also?
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Campaign is campaign, it's a story-based mission that also gradually introduces you to the units and mechanics of the game. Also, Blizzard did not make "many" maps without resources and building. They made like 3 or something out of hundreds, and something like Instant Action is considered a gimmick map and not a real game either. Look at any of the ladder maps, maps officially endorsed by Blizzard as the maps used for competition and rankings, and you'll see what type of maps they are.
Paintball is just paintball, whatever. You can enjoy it if you like. It has very little in common with the real game even though it's a map within the game, just as the original DOTA had very little to do with War3 and eventually was split off into completely independent games League, Dota 2, etc.
Pball is not real-time strategy, and War2 is an RTS game
Real-time strategy (RTS) is a subgenre of strategy video games which does not progress incrementally in turns.[1]
The term "Real-time strategy" appeared in BYTE magazine in 1982, but usually Brett Sperry is credited with coining the term to market Dune II.
In an RTS, as in other wargames, the participants position and maneuver units and structures under their control to secure areas of the map and/or destroy their opponents' assets. In a typical RTS, it is possible to create additional units and structures during the course of a game. This is generally limited by a requirement to expend accumulated resources. These resources are in turn garnered by controlling special points on the map and/or possessing certain types of units and structures devoted to this purpose. More specifically, the typical game of the RTS genre features resource gathering, base building, in-game technological development and indirect control of units.
There's no need to be defensive about it. Pball simply is not the same game. Doesn't mean you can't play it and enjoy it for some reason.
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Only thing I dont like about PBall is to short. I prefer that PBall game Bob or whatever ever.
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Is this guy really trying to argue that pball is a real war2 map? Lmao. Age of empires is more like war2 than pball.
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Lol Ganz the maps you supposedly got to #1 on are the simplest BNEs possible so you have no room to talk. Blid look through the Warcraft 2 Official Strategy Guide sometime there are far more than 3 maps with only units or with many units to start with resources less prevalent. Ganz chimes in at the end of the discussion with irrelevant information, PBall is a custom map which yes is a real map like any other map. I never said PBall was a BNE if that's what you are implying Ganz.
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Also if Age Of Empires is more like Warcraft 2 than a custom game made in the game Warcraft 2 map editor played within the game of Warcraft 2 to you, you may be retarded.
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I do not consider PBall to be War2 either. It, more like War3's Dota maps. There are core War3 players that will tell you flat out, Dota maps are NOT war3, as they should not be because it has nothing at all to do with the RTS War3. It's a completely different game in itself. So much so that the map creators actually LEFT Blizzard because Blizzard didnt like their map creations and they started their own company and made "Dota 2".
I do agree that Pball "can" assist a Gow player with unit control but not in enough situations where it would really make a difference. The only instance it would come in handy is with 9/s9 cat battles where the cats have 1HP, something I've done many times myself but it is rare. It can also happen with any of the neighborly spots but its so rare that it's almost insignificant. Trying to protect a cat with footment/ogres/whatever that are practically dead IS a skill, but nothing thats really going to make you improve overall in a real War2 game no matter what the map is. How is that going to help you in B2B for example? It's not.
IMO new players shouldnt even know PBall exists until after they've mastered at least Gow BNE (ef or f) heh. They should actually be playing the Campaigns first, then play some Gow BNE (ef or F) games with the CPUs, then online with players, and then classic Gow (ef or f but with players, not CPUs of course). To me thats the proper recipe to make a great war2 player. I think BNE should be played first because it slowly introduces the player to proper building placement. It's hard to learn placement with things like roads running through the middle of your town :) Classic Gow is an advanced version of BNE. Many good players have followed this path. Not sure of many Pballers who could stand a chance vs someone like Swift in ANY map let alone gow. This is an example of someone who followed this exact recipe, there are lots of other examples.
How many PBall maps were hosted on the blizzard servers? 0
How many KPud maps were hosted on the blizzard servers? All of them
Case closed. PBall is a different game.
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This is why Tk[as]'s post about how splitting posts is ridiculous is relevant in some circumstances. Blid and Winchester were already talking about PBall on the forum split topic, and I replied to Blid and this gets made into a separate topic. The same way that Il asked what admins could I answered and it turned into a discussion on the anti hack post(this one I can see splitting though.) Blid, Winchester, and Equinox were already talking about PBall replying to that is how the thread naturally evolved.(Your argument on Tk's post was you mainly only do it on server important topic obviously not true.)
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putting all theorycrafting aside, it is very easy to tell how "easy" a map is. Just take a person that plays one type of map exclusively and see how well he performs on the other maps. The more skills his map covered, the easier the transition will be. My obversation is that in terms of versatility/flexibility:
gow players > custom* players > pball players
(custom = chop and macro oriented maps such as archers, 62 peons, bgh's.)
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blid just likes splitting topics because it gives him something to do and make him feel like he's contributing to something .. it's not a war that is going to be won any time soon.
there is literally no point. the community itself is tiny, and the forum community is even smaller. it's just him sitting on his laptop at his house bored out of his mind thinking "hmm.. i think this belongs over here instead" and then letting everyone else figure out why pieces of the thread are missing and where they went.
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Also if Age Of Empires is more like Warcraft 2 than a custom game made in the game Warcraft 2 map editor played within the game of Warcraft 2 to you, you may be retarded.
Your dilusional if u think pball is anything close to war2. Hell any rts is closer to war2 than pball. Pball isn't even in the same genre (rts) as war2.
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How many PBalls were hosted on Blizzard servers? You mean as in to download, none. How many PBall's were hosted on Battle.net? 1000's. From 2002-2004 on east PBall was hosted all day long probably more than GOW at that time. I played the campaigns, BNEs and Gow, then got in PBall, means nothing it's all a video game i found I preferred PBall. If people play Wacraft and get into PBall then later GOW you should just be happy they got into Wacraft 2 because of PBall. Swift wouldn't stand a chance vs me in any PBall, I played Swift in PBalls long ago. No PBaller could beat Swift in GOW? It goes the other way too, there is no Elite Gow or BNE players Swift or any of them included who could beat me in a series in PBall.
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Ganz you are beyond delusion to think any game outside of Warcraft is closer to Wacraft 2 then a map on Warcraft 2. It's actually illogical and makes no sense. As we've went over there are PBall Builds so there are PBalls that are RTS. Also learn to spell its delusional*, you should also learn what delusional is, someone who is playing Warcraft 2 then telling someone they are playing Warcraft 2 is not delusional. Someone who is saying Age of Empires is Warcraft 2 is a much more delusional thought process.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_the_Ancients See here for the history of the "Instant Action" map creators ;) Now you know where Dota REALLY came from heh. PBall is more or less the "Dota" of War2
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How many PBalls were hosted on Blizzard servers? You mean as in to download, none. How many PBall's were hosted on Battle.net? 1000's. From 2002-2004 on east PBall was hosted all day long probably more than GOW at that time. I played the campaigns, BNEs and Gow, then got in PBall, means nothing it's all a video game i found I preferred PBall. If people play Wacraft and get into PBall then later GOW you should just be happy they got into Wacraft 2 because of PBall. Swift wouldn't stand a chance vs me in any PBall, I played Swift in PBalls long ago. No PBaller could beat Swift in GOW? It goes the other way too, there is no Elite Gow or BNE players Swift or any of them included who could beat me in a series in PBall.
If a good gow player played pball for a month, he could at the very least compete with the best pball players and win at least like 30% of the games. If a good pball player played gow for a month, he would still be a complete piece of garbage at it and could never even fluke a single win vs a good gow player.
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Ganz you are beyond delusion to think any game outside of Warcraft is closer to Wacraft 2 then a map on Warcraft 2. It's actually illogical and makes no sense. As we've went over there are PBall Builds so there are PBalls that are RTS. Also learn to spell its delusional*, you should also learn what delusional is, someone who is playing Warcraft 2 then telling someone they are playing Warcraft 2 is not delusional. Someone who is saying Age of Empires is Warcraft 2 is a much more delusional thought process.
Well excuse me, English isn't my 1st language. I can speak four languages, how many can you?
I have played AoE2 a lot and pball before and I can tell you that AoE2 is much more like playing war2, than pball.
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You realize there are GOW players who play PBall right such as [ td ]Medivh and Angel~Fire. You can pull statistics out of your ass all you want, I offer any GOW player to play PBall and beat me in a series then. The people like me at the top of PBall players aren't going to be beat consistently by someone whose played for a month lmao. I've went 14-6 in PBall tournaments about 50-9 in games during the tournaments. When I don't 1v2 or 2v3 in PBall my record is over 90% and I've been #1 on the in game ladder when tvb is counted twice. Get your BNE players to practice for a month and beat me then, or you can make up statistics all day long means nothing.
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This is why Tk[as]'s post about how splitting posts is ridiculous is relevant in some circumstances. Blid and Winchester were already talking about PBall on the forum split topic, and I replied to Blid and this gets made into a separate topic. The same way that Il asked what admins could I answered and it turned into a discussion on the anti hack post(this one I can see splitting though.) Blid, Winchester, and Equinox were already talking about PBall replying to that is how the thread naturally evolved.(Your argument on Tk's post was you mainly only do it on server important topic obviously not true.)
Splitting the thread isn't an attack on you or anything. It's to let other people know this discussion is taking place, which they would never have expected to be taking place within the "splitting threads" thread. I thought it was a good enough discussion that it should get its own thread. Tk is a baby.
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If I remember correctly, there was someone a couple years ago that sounded similar to you. They challenged swift to Pball saying they were the best yada yada, he played it for about 2 days, and then 5-0'd the poor sap. Or maybe it was Viruz, I forget who it was, but the situation sounds super familiar :) It was on the old occult forums. Likely before you were around on the forums.
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Also if Age Of Empires is more like Warcraft 2 than a custom game made in the game Warcraft 2 map editor played within the game of Warcraft 2 to you, you may be retarded.
Your dilusional if u think pball is anything close to war2. Hell any rts is closer to war2 than pball. Pball isn't even in the same genre (rts) as war2.
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I agree with GaNz
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all the shittalkers are usually bad players. Its like you really believed ganz is #1 or something
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Lol Lance you actually don't even know what you're talking about here. Swift was friends with the mother of my kid years ago and used to play PBalls with her, I could beat him then I could now. I actually think you're talking about )lw(Sly who is a joke even among PBallers. He used to say he was the 2nd best PBaller to me, yet I was undefeated vs him for like a year. Our overall record was something like 100-5. I've played PBall since 2002 vs so many good PBallers and just so many people in general, I'm not easy to beat, but for real any BNE player who wants to try I'll play them.
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May I ask when was the last time ganz even played a war2 game?
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2.5 years ago
http://ladder.war2.ru/player.php/php?player=GaNzTheLegend (http://ladder.war2.ru/player.php/php?player=GaNzTheLegend)
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IMO new players shouldnt even know PBall exists until after they've mastered at least Gow BNE (ef or f) heh. They should actually be playing the Campaigns first, then play some Gow BNE (ef or F) games with the CPUs, then online with players,
Only problem here is that they'll meet the toxic part of the community and get banned for no reason and then join a pball game as theres no other game to join ;)
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If I remember correctly, there was someone a couple years ago that sounded similar to you. They challenged swift to Pball saying they were the best yada yada, he played it for about 2 days, and then 5-0'd the poor sap. Or maybe it was Viruz, I forget who it was, but the situation sounds super familiar :) It was on the old occult forums. Likely before you were around on the forums.
Sly maybe? Wasn't he a pball player?
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I think it was sly or arrow.
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Click and patrol Map
No skill needed
It's designed for primary school kids
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Click and patrol Map
No skill needed
It's designed for primary school kids
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I'll tell you what. Since you think there is no skill at pball. I'll give you $100 via PayPal if you can beat smeagol 1v1 in a best of 5 match up
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Like I said it was Sly I'm pretty sure. I remember searching my name on the old forum once, and Sly claiming he was the best popped up. I believe he challenged people to PBall, he then got beat in 1v1's by some BNE player. He then told them to play me I think lmao. Sly sucked he was terrible at PBall like all War 2 games, he thought he was so good though. I've beaten Dellam many times while he used spell hack and map back vs me, so he had all the spells and could see all my movements and I had fog of war and only fireball hahaha.
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I think it was Arrow thinking he could beat swift/Viruz on archer friends.
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The Sly thing happened too, I'm not sure who the BNE player was that beat him though. The arrow thing happened too I'm sure, but archers friends isn't PBall, totally different custom. I remember reading the Sly stuff on the forum though and Sly did talk a lot of shit he couldn't back up at all lol.
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Sly was incompetent at everything, i cant imagine anyone taking a challenge from him seriously
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Sly was incompetent and cocky about everything, he thought he was so good when he sucked. I know the Sly thing happened though and it was PBall he was bragging about and got beat in. I can't find the post on the old forum but it's there somewhere. If it was PBall Lance is talking about that would be the post hes referring to probably. Probably the only reason someone took him seriously is they knew he sucked and wanted to humiliate him haha. I only know about the Sly bragging / getting owned post, because I searched Smeagol a while back and it came up. After he lost to whatever BNE player it was he then wanted them to play me lmao.
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Necro, simply because I saw Ganz name, lol. That kid's not still around, is he?
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you hung around MePhYsT a lot, didnt u phuct?
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smeagol in prison RN so PB is dead looks like.