Warcraft II Forum
Warcraft II => Server.War2.ru => Topic started by: Nedro on January 28, 2017, 12:16:01 AM
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I'm going to be the first to post about this since it involves my integrity and reputation. I am not sure if Swift or other parties had planned to post.
I made an honest mistake tonight that involved having both players in a 1v1, Lone and Swift, on AC instead of the other two watchers, toungsta and LTFan. The game was FOC High. Swift accused me of tipping to Lone. Swift thinks that I was trying to tip Lone but accidentally had him chat checked too. It was the comment I made about Swift going stronghold that caused him to accuse me and eventually pause the game. I apologized for ruining the game. However, I did not tip Lone like I was accused of. I had the wrong two players AC'd. Swift says he has the replay. I encouraged him to post it.
Anyone who watches with me knows I will comment on details. Some probably like it and some don't. Some even ask me to make such observations. To me, Swift beginning his stronghold was an important detail that other watchers might not always catch as quickly considering how many halls Swift had which I also mentioned. That was a lot of halls considering his main base was hurting. The stronghold was at one of Swift's many exps, away from the action. Watchers know I'll give peon count comparisons often. I did not give any information through AC on what Lone was up to because there wasn't anything interesting about it. He was ahead without it being a lightning fast power and had secured one exp. Swift staying alive through a long tower war with what must have been six guard towers (later more) on him was more interesting so he is who I chose to make a few comments on. Minutes before Swift realized something was up with my typed chat and thought I was tipping, he had just begun being towered and I commented "gg no re." I had seen Swift's towers could not be easily repaired with his farms in the way. No one had a problem with me typing gg no re but my point is, I wouldn't have said this if I knew Lone and Swift were able to read it. I also narrated right on the dot when Lone's catapult and transport had JUST died. Why would I mention those unit deaths if I thought I was private with only Lone and tipping him like I was accused of?
After I realized something was wrong based on the chat from Swift I clicked on the chat button. Lone was first in my list, Swift third, the watchers second and fourth. As I said, I had the players checked and watchers unchecked. Ask the other watchers, toungsta and LTFan if they heard any tipping chat from me. The only thing I suspect they heard was the very early game talk about how black was pink for winter tileset. At this point, I would've likely been chatting to ALL at the start of the game as most watchers/players do. I even made a comment about how Swift knew that fact about black on winter. I am sure that comment was sent to ALL because I would've thought I was AC'd to only the other watchers, not AC'd to Swift and Lone.
I understand what it could be perceived as on Swift's end. Swift and I always got along. It's a close matchup between him and Lone too. So, what would be my motive for tipping?
Yes, it is a weird mistake to make and I can't say I've made it before. Do you know what would have been much weirder? Let's use some logic here. To ally both players, the player I'm supposedly helping, the other guy, and neither of the watchers. THEN, ONLY tip mid-game rather than including Swift's starting location and starting strategy. Wouldn't it have been a good tip to pass on that Swift had a juggernaut pending when Lone's juggernaut was attacking his island? Why didn't I mention each time Swift took a new exp? If I was tipping, those details would've been far more important to provide than what I mentioned.
Swift, I urge you again to post your replay. I apologized for my mistake. My story is congruent with exactly what happened.
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I remember when gp( not sure) said spots at start at gow when we were playing finals me g3 vs swift st(?)
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probably to make it fair lol
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Nedro wrote war2.ru's first novel. Gonna take a couple days for me to read for sure
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Stop cheating nedro.. tipping is only allowed when you get banned from the game, but one of the players is streaming.. u can watch the stream and /msg opposing player what's going on.
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wow you're useless tk, were you even there? Watchers commentate amongst themselves & check the wrong boxes for ac all the time. It happened the other day in Yamon vs Lone, more than once. Swift accuses everyone of tipping afaik, especially if he loses :D
we believe in you nedro!
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admins protecting cheaters.. so typical
i call for perm ban.
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wow you're useless tk, were you even there? Watchers commentate amongst themselves & check the wrong boxes for ac all the time. It happened the other day in Yamon vs Lone, more than once. Swift accuses everyone of tipping afaik, especially if he loses :D
we believe in you nedro!
You are a hypocrite. You are doing essentially the same thing you are proclaiming Tk useless for doing. I don't go around randomly accusing players of tipping and can't remember the last time I accused anyone. You are making unmerited accusations,and discrediting my reaction in a moment without even having been there. Bad form, especially for an admin.
Nedros case was interesting, and anyone who played the game from my perspective would have been highly suspicious as well. A watcher Occassionally making comments like "he's holding" / "4 halls" is enough to raise eye brows. Those are not things one would typically say to watchers who have vision from all players. It is also suspect that no comments were made regarding Lone's base. So yeah, me reacting after reading a small handful of comments Like that is not uncalled for at all. Both watchers agreed the whole event was rather suspicious. One watcher also commented that my opponent seemed to being playing as if he was being tipped, and so of course this added to my suspicion as well.
The event can either be interpreted as cheating or a coincidence / very odd. Nedro seems like a nice guy, and I haven't know him to do anything like this before so I gave him the benefit of the doubt.
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if Lone was getting those msgs he should have paused and said shut up, thats what i would do
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..Unless lone was inviting/encouraging/enjoying the tips.
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He may not have been reading them. Who knows.
Keep in mind too that exactly one game prior Lone was 1sing ST, with me and a few others as watchers. Lone's starting location was 6, and while their halls were building Lone sent me a whisper saying something like "tell me what to do from 6". I responded saying I will give him advice after the game is over if he would like. I was a little confused by his request, but just let it go. I figured, English isn't Lone's first language so maybe he was just pissed in the moment that he got 6 vs ST and was meaning to request I teach him how to play the spot at a later time. However, given the incident with nedro the following game it only then added to my suspicion.
I had no intention about making a thread or anything, and tho a bit upset in the moment I decided there was still a chance the whole thing was just a coincidence and that nedro deserved the benefit of the doubt.
But for mouse to discredit the whole thing and make things up doesn't help the situation. Even Nedro acknowledged that he understood how it could be interpreted as suspicious/odd. His reaction though, and how adamant he is about clearing his name over an issue that I wasn't going to even bring up past last night makes me think it probably was just simply a situation that appeared pretty odd.
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Yeah I can't see Nedro doing anything like that on purpose, and Lone/Nedro would be a odd tipping relationship. I don't see players asking that of someone without much history/friendship between the two.
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Swift crying because he lost to lone, blames it on tipping
burnt and mouse are right... they know the relationship between nedro/lone. they didnt have to see the game to know what was going on.
stop trying to accuse others of tipping swift... people who weren't there know what happened. we see through your bullshit.
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Haha. Burnt's comment is actually a fair one though, I think. They don't appear to really associate with one another.
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me too. you pussy crybaby.
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on the other hand i was watching a game a few weeks ago where yamon was another watcher. lone was 6 and i forget who he was playing was 11. lone went through the middle while the other guy went through s9, lone was going to get raped and yamon said 'go back.' i thought he was just "willing" or "wishing" him to since theyre friends, and lo and behold he went back inexplicably, able to arrive before the other guy ran into 6.
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burnt.. whats your take on Lone/Yamon's relationship. please tell us.
is what sentinel saying legitimate or no?
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I run in and out of my base all the time from open spots. I don't remember Yamon tipping me nor have I ever asked for it.
In the FOC game I knew Swift was exping because that's what he did in all our games and I saw his main base setup, and his trainnie with peons in it. I didn't know if he had 2-3-4 exps nor have I cared because I was ahead and my flyers were about to scout the whole map which was happening just as Nedro made his comments. I had an army and was lusting. I didn't know if he was hold or not and it would not have mattered (I assumed he was closer in tech with 1 less exp). Suspicion played no role, he was losing so he refused to finish the game in order to keep spamming "10-0 Lone I am bored of 1sing you". After the past couple of days I highly doubt I'm wrong in this. Competitive mindset is one thing, but bullshitting like this is ridiculous, annoying and should not be continued.
On the other hand I did ask Swift to teach me smth cause I know even with help I stand no chance whatsoever from 6 vs ST, especially when I skip a night of sleep cause of working. Also ST played on his smurf so I didn't think it mattered. Swift coached me in the past, 2-3 years ago in a few real games and it helped a lot back then.
Sentinel what name do you play on?
Regarding Nedro, we had a few chats. A few days ago (don't remember vs who) he commented in all-chat and gave clear and valuable information in my opponent favor, so it's not the first time. I don't think it's a big deal. Nedro careful with messages. Swift we won't 1s unless I get good or I have a good mindset. I'm having a crap time recently in and out of wc2.
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See guys.. it's not tipping. Just coaching.
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Gonna log on in a bit and play some games. if someone wants to join the games, go AC with me, and coach me as to what my opponent is doing and how i should react I would greatly appreciate it. thx.
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Regarding Nedro, we had a few chats. A few days ago (don't remember vs who) he commented in all-chat and gave clear and valuable information in my opponent favor, so it's not the first time. I don't think it's a big deal. Nedro careful with messages.
LOL, ban for a week!
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Yeah I can't see Nedro doing anything like that on purpose, and Lone/Nedro would be a odd tipping relationship. I don't see players asking that of someone without much history/friendship between the two.
+1
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You are a hypocrite. You are doing essentially the same thing you are proclaiming Tk useless for doing. I don't go around randomly accusing players of tipping and can't remember the last time I accused anyone. You are making unmerited accusations,and discrediting my reaction in a moment without even having been there. Bad form, especially for an admin.
Nedros case was interesting, and anyone who played the game from my perspective would have been highly suspicious as well. A watcher Occassionally making comments like "he's holding" / "4 halls" is enough to raise eye brows. Those are not things one would typically say to watchers who have vision from all players. It is also suspect that no comments were made regarding Lone's base. So yeah, me reacting after reading a small handful of comments Like that is not uncalled for at all. Both watchers agreed the whole event was rather suspicious. One watcher also commented that my opponent seemed to being playing as if he was being tipped, and so of course this added to my suspicion as well.
The event can either be interpreted as cheating or a coincidence / very odd. Nedro seems like a nice guy, and I haven't know him to do anything like this before so I gave him the benefit of the doubt.
Oh lighten up Francis, that was 90% a joke. I know of one instance only when you accused Yamon of tipping after he scored a nice win, so naturally I extrapolated that to 100% of your war2 career :D But yes, I do concede this is a different situation and suspicion seems highly justified. It's nice that Nedro has attempted to clear things up by sharing his side and we are all discussing things rationally.
tk is still useless
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Swift we won't 1s unless I get good or I have a good mindset. I'm having a crap time recently in and out of wc2.
That's fine. I was definitely justified in feeling suspicious though.. If you think I did it to get out of a game I was more likely than not going to lose, then we'll just add a win to your column and call it 10-2 :p
As I have been saying, on my end I assume you were playing fairly, and I assume it was just a rather odd coincidence on Nedro's end.
No hard feelings, you are a very good player and I don't mean to make your gaming experience unpleasant. I have a bad habit of taking the mental warfare aspect of the game too far vs good players like yourself.
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You are a hypocrite. You are doing essentially the same thing you are proclaiming Tk useless for doing. I don't go around randomly accusing players of tipping and can't remember the last time I accused anyone. You are making unmerited accusations,and discrediting my reaction in a moment without even having been there. Bad form, especially for an admin.
Nedros case was interesting, and anyone who played the game from my perspective would have been highly suspicious as well. A watcher Occassionally making comments like "he's holding" / "4 halls" is enough to raise eye brows. Those are not things one would typically say to watchers who have vision from all players. It is also suspect that no comments were made regarding Lone's base. So yeah, me reacting after reading a small handful of comments Like that is not uncalled for at all. Both watchers agreed the whole event was rather suspicious. One watcher also commented that my opponent seemed to being playing as if he was being tipped, and so of course this added to my suspicion as well.
The event can either be interpreted as cheating or a coincidence / very odd. Nedro seems like a nice guy, and I haven't know him to do anything like this before so I gave him the benefit of the doubt.
Oh lighten up Francis, that was 90% a joke. I know of one instance only when you accused Yamon of tipping after he scored a nice win, so naturally I extrapolated that to 100% of your war2 career :D But yes, I do concede this is a different situation and suspicion seems highly justified. It's nice that Nedro has attempted to clear things up by sharing his side and we are all discussing things rationally.
tk is still useless
i'm starting to think there might be something to this "burn school" .. you're on fire today mousy!