Warcraft II Forum
Warcraft II => Server.War2.ru => Topic started by: Incos on September 06, 2019, 09:55:30 AM
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U8 brought up an interesting statement in the other thread about units equaling other units because they are the same in stats/damage/effectiveness.
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Regarding the 100 gold cheaper option: basically you would need to make 19 paladins AFTER the paladin upgrade is complete to start getting a slight edge in numbers. Still, it will encourage paladin usage.
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THINK IT SHOULD STATE "KNIGHT N PALADIN COST"?
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We will just stick to paladins for now because knights and ogres are the same. Power spiking at keep would be another poll. I appreciate the numbers Lone.
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We will just stick to paladins for now because knights and ogres are the same.
MEH. BAD IDEA THEN
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If knights were made stronger, then they would need to cost more for their tier 2 advantage, if left as is , then a short decrease in gold isn't a bad idea when they become paladins.
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What does everyone else think? There’s a lot more than u8 lone claw and winchester.
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I think it's a good idea, but still hard to perfectly balance. For me humans are water map/early game race. You can rush harder because almost no lumber needed for upgrades. Bb It yeah making paladins cheaper could help a little bit. We must test it in games.
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I think it's a good idea, but still hard to perfectly balance. For me humans are water map/early game race. You can rush harder because almost no lumber needed for upgrades. Bb It yeah making paladins cheaper could help a little bit. We must test it in games.
Yeah I agree. Just taking baby steps here. Lone did some math and shows it was 19 paladins created before it evens out. Ogre mages will still be more powerful and cost effective but this would increase the opportunity to select a paladin for efficiency.
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Sounds not bad, but still not solving the first wave advantage.
But in even later game it evens a little bit the situation. Of you make it cheaper then it will make too big difference later...
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wat does knights got that orges dont...the other op spell exo.. yall can play good but lack stratetgy idk?most play arcade style
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Uhm, you can already do this with the map editor. You can also do this with Wargus. There is absolutely NO need to change any of it. If you want a map with knights that cost less, make a map where that is the case and actually test it out. But the idea of changing their values in the game engine, no. Absolutely no need for any of that.
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Lance you actually can’t do that with a map like gow unless you use use map settings which is fixed order. Ill send you the map, if you can make a paladin cost 700 on tvb or melee, I’ll drop the poll.
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give paladins {not knights) a 30% less build time
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give paladins {not knights) a 30% less build time
that way u can kinda keep up bby jus makin 1 extra rax
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All retarded ideas. Keep it out of war2. If you want to do this, go play wargus. It has all of these already. You can modify it easier, it has pretty much all the mods done already, and it doesnt affect war2. What your proposing is to turn war2 into something completely different. There is no need to do any of that when such a project already exists and its NATIVE. No need to reverse engineer anything or nigger rig anything either.
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Right now there are 4 people wanting the change and 3 not.. so majority is okay with this change. Couple more votes and we can make this happen! 4 beats 3.
This isn’t turning the game into something different as lance says, this is turning the game into making paladins playable. We are not changing any mechanics except one simple gold price. It isn’t even a huge change to be noticeable, but we might see paladin play.
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as I said vote should be in game, make banner?
there are only 7!!! votes, sometimes even 50 people play on the weekend
If we got 100 players, its only 7%
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Go for 80%+. Calling one extra vote 'majority' is kinda silly. Great ideas will get more people voting (and voting yes). Keep thinking, discussing. For now...:
Explain the 'feel' you get seeing the cost of paladins drop from 800 to 700 gold. This to me 'feels' very customy, even tho it would improve hu vs orc gameplay.
Imagine and explain how it would affect the gameplay at different stages. I'd rather you to show your understanding of the game and your reasoning here.
Try to imagine what others will think about this approach: The cost reduction idea is for helping humans directly combat ogres and/or allow more room for mistakes.
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Let me make this abundantly CLEAR. The poll had nothing to do with actually making a change. It had everything to do with an OPINION on what it would take to make paladins or whatever u want to call it, better in the eyes of others as far as "balance" goes. Trying to make the jump from opinion on a THEORETICAL CHANGE to lets fuck up war2 with it are 2 completely different things. Those "votes" you are calling for change with would very likely never actually vote for such a ridiculous change. They would probably tell you the same thing I'd tell you. Do it somewhere else. It's one thing to talk theoreticals, its quite another to literally ruin a game over those theoreticals. And thats not even to mention the fact that a 4-3 vote is anything to write home about. That to me actually spells CONTROVERSIAL and not "majority rules". A majority to me is 90-95% and the amount of votes would have to be FAR more than 7 freaking people. I'd want to see 30+ from KNOWN real people in the game (none of this 10 post account crap) in order to eliminate any possibility that 90% of the people didnt vote when it comes to something like balance of the game. I can guarantee you that in such a scenario, something like this would be the laughing stock and get shot down faster than a duck in duckhunt.
I have said this A TON already but it's clearly not sinking in. There are OTHER WAYS to improve war2 besides making changes to the game mechanics. Lone hit on a good example of this. Make a command IN THE GAME that allows you to vote on things about the game. Of course it should be limited to accounts with a history (maybe stats can be used for that or some sort of other flag such as a "verified" flag), but still is in improvement that DOESNT TOUCH THE GAME MECHANICS.
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It’s 6-3 now actually. A small improvement but 66 percent approval rating. That’s enough to change a bill in the house. Let’s keep voting to get this small adjustment done. We need a lot more votes, I’ll work on getting battle net public up to speed.
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It’s 6-3 now actually. A small improvement but 66 percent approval rating. That’s enough to change a bill in the house. Let’s keep voting to get this small adjustment done. We need a lot more votes, I’ll work on getting battle net public up to speed.
still not enough, admins can you check how many we got active players?
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It’s 6-3 now actually. A small improvement but 66 percent approval rating. That’s enough to change a bill in the house. Let’s keep voting to get this small adjustment done. We need a lot more votes, I’ll work on getting battle net public up to speed.
You keep forgetting that the poll wasnt about an actual change to the game installer. It was simply an opinion about "what if". If you want to actually make a REAL change, you would need a crap ton more people to vote on a NEW poll specifically for that purpose. The ONLY example we have of that is the black to pink patch and that took a LOT of discussion and polling and its the ONLY change to war2 that I have no problem with and I'll be the first to tell you, I DIDNT vote for it, I still dont support it, but I was outnumbered and I accept it as a change simply because of the sheer amount of people who didnt see it the way I do. I have made no polls to remove it and I would not start now either. It's proponents won fair and square with a LARGE majority of over 95% with a large voting pool, it wasnt 7 people or whatever, not even close. And a change like this is even MORE delicate than B2P. Trying to sneak something by simply because you think you have some sort of majority, is a joke at best and laughable at worst.
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This poll is a real poll to change the game. Just need a lot more votes. I wouldn’t do a hypothetical and nobody else besides you thinks it is a hypothetical. This is real, if we get about 30-40 voters, it can happen.
The chop bar removal shows you only need 15 voters. There was 10 votes against it, 5 votes for it and 5 voters in other areas supporting the bar. There was a 66 percent get rid of vote rating, and in the end it got removed.
In fact there were people supporting the concept of adding other bars but I won’t even count those in because multiple votes could be counted.
In the end, it’s what the community wants. Not just 1 or 2 people.
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What cost would make a paladin equal an ogre mage in terms of cost effectiveness?
Where in there does it say "Would you support adding a change that changes the cost effectiveness...." It doesnt. The above question is a HYPOTHETICAL opinion question, its not a question of support. It's not a question of whether to add something to the installer or not.
"what would make" == HYPOTHETICAL. What college did you go to? The prestigious electoral collage in their doctorate program? lol
"Would you support" != "what would make"
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Look at all the options. I wouldn’t put “leave as is” if it was hypothetical. That wouldn’t make sense to the conversation.
This is not hypotheticals.. this is obviously a poll.
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That is actually what you call a "bait and switch" tactic, try to present it as one thing, and then apply it to something completely different. The ONLY reason it's there is so that you can try to paint the original question as something its NOT. A real poll of approval has 2 options. Yes and No. Period. Thats it. It doesnt have 50 different options (unless of course you live in Maine where are voting rules have gone to complete and utter fucking shit).
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Chop bar got removed with 5 options. (Not just a yes or no so your reason is invalid).. Everyone has a right to their own choice, maybe yours doesn’t align to the people. That’s fine, you’re a little antiquated. I support people’s choices, if this gets enough votes. We will try to move forward and get the coding piece done. Then add it to the game. This isn’t a dictatorship. Let everyone speak... there is no tactics here. It’s been clearly expressed since the beginning as a real possible change.
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Chop bar got removed with 5 options. (Not just a yes or no so your reason is invalid).. Everyone has a right to their own choice, maybe yours doesn’t align to the people. That’s fine, you’re a little antiquated. I support people’s choices, if this gets enough votes. We will try to move forward and get the coding piece done. Then add it to the game. This isn’t a dictatorship. Let everyone speak... there is no tactics here. It’s been clearly expressed since the beginning as a real possible change.
It was removed because it was added improperly and it was painfully obvious that the senior players were in agreement. Maybe you're not aware, but like Tom Brady, some of us have been preserving war2 since before some of you were even walking on this earth. It also had NO impact on the game where as adding something has a HUGE impact. Therefore removing it is not as dangerous and doesnt need to be held to the same standards. You vet a change more than you do removing a mistake/bug, that applies to not only war2, but anything in life.
I tell you what. I'll help you out by making a REAL poll. We'll see how it goes. I'm confident enough that this is such a joke, I have no problem proposing it as a retarded change.
Here you go: http://forum.war2.ru/index.php/topic,5315.0.html (http://forum.war2.ru/index.php/topic,5315.0.html) A real poll about real change. Let me know how it goes. If you can get like 20+ people to vote on it (like REAL people, not some 10 post drone that just signed up a yr or less ago), we'll have something to discuss. Otherwise, all this talk about changing the installer with this kind of change is just a complete joke.
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Bump. This is the official poll. Continue on.
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Keep trying to be a total jerk and use people's opinions in an effort completely separate than what it was intended. You'll accomplish nothing other than to wreck your own reputation as and quickly become known as nothing more than a snake oil salesman. I know for a fact that some of those that selected a cost AS AN OPINION would absolutely NEVER actually vote to implement it as a default option in the game. Ever. Trying to pull a bait and switch con isnt the way you get something implemented and it sure isnt the way to win over anyone's trust.
If you want something implemented, you ask others in simple Yes/No questions. You dont try to hide it amonst 50 options and then proclaim victory over something that the probably never intended in the first place. If you think you cant win a Yes/No poll, then you have no business even thinking about the question let alone actually try to ask it. It just goes to show that you know I'm right but are embarrassed to admit it. I put up a proper poll for it that was COMPLETELY unbiased and had no bait/switch possibilities and the only thing you want to do is to bury it so people cant see it. Thats not what confident people do. Thats what cheats and liars do.
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You just have too many polls up, and what it does is diminish what votes we Already have... you basically did a re count because you were upset.. I’m the snake? Your the one calling women bitches. I’m just try to ask the public for a vote on what they might want to see.. you are getting so upset your name calling.
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At the end of the day, this is the poll that matters.
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Lol dont act all holier than thou as though you didnt do anything wrong. You literally just attempted to hijack people's opinions in some crusade that they probably want no part of. I can see right through your bait/switch horseshit and I'm not the only one. As time goes on, you'll slowly learn that what you attempted was asinine. Things around here take time to develop.
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I got nothing to prove here. The poll is a testament to how some people want change.. there is nothing at all if they don’t want it to change. We will stick to the poll and the people that voted. If they don’t want change, they will vote “keep it the same no change”. It’s not hard. Whatever everyone decides I am with, if they don’t want it implemented that is fine too.
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Then prove it. Use a poll with the EXACT language you're looking to do instead of try to hide it behind getting people's opinions on something that they probably wouldnt support in the first place.
http://forum.war2.ru/index.php/topic,5315.0.html (http://forum.war2.ru/index.php/topic,5315.0.html)
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This is still the official poll. If you want paladins to be changed to 700 gold 100 wood, vote here. Also you can vote for no change at the bottom.
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wow really no slow users in the house :o :o
if vote passes can we do whatever for atleast a month?
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just mpq edit for that should be compatable with all..im not arguing at all on stratagus..i wish blizzard made a stratagus version just from freecraft its the way superior engine
what happend to wargus all high iq c++ /asm people they cant have fun as us lower iqs..so what you got was a nerdfest
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Sorry human lovers but I don't think this is going to happen.
Making this sort of change in the exe would cause games to split/drop between the players who were using the modded version and those who weren't as soon as the first person made a paladin.
So in the absence of forced server updates at login such a change would just cause confusion and failed games. That being said I think the 700/100 thing could make for more interesting games, but there is no easy path to implimenting it yet.
Ofc you can already do this my changing the cost in the pud and hosting a modded map, but people tend not to join those sort of games.
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maybe something could be done..how many humans are they 100% 3 or 4 kinda of surely they could be helped out a little..maybe a meeting with dugz
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is no easy path to implimenting it yet.
LIES. I already mentioned that this type of change is easy with stratagus/wargus as well as with maps (using the use map settings) option. There is nothing stoping anyone from modifying something like GoWTE to have this kind of modification. But yes like I mentioned here and in the other poll I created, the only way to have such an option by default with THIS war2 is to lock out any versions that are not modified and thats not likely to happen. Some people around here are to thickheaded to see these issues though.
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well i see like 20 users on..what if you did they gonna go play sc2?
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Just make one compatible version.
When you enter Bnet, it will connect to RU and do an auto patch. Or make an advertisement on bnet about getting the new version. GoG doesn’t really bring in a lot of people, go around bnet and ask who’s from GoG, you will hear crickets.
Once we get enough votes, do the hex change in the .exe, release it and make it mandatory you have to play that version. If someone wonders why they drop, they quickly figure out they have the wrong version and download. It’s like any game.
You can’t modify a map to do paladins at 700 gold and still expect it to work on a UMS without using fixed order. Also it won’t work on melee or tvb so it would be useless.
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is no easy path to implimenting it yet.
LIES. I already mentioned that this type of change is easy with stratagus/wargus as well as with maps (using the use map settings) option. There is nothing stoping anyone from modifying something like GoWTE to have this kind of modification.
Like I said in the exact post you quoted? .... then called me a liar? Put down your crack pipe.
But yes like I mentioned here and in the other poll I created, the only way to have such an option by default with THIS war2 is to lock out any versions that are not modified and thats not likely to happen. Some people around here are to thickheaded to see these issues though.
DUH. This is exactly what I said when I started the AH project on the occult forum, and here we are 10 years later... and WOW Lance has finally picked up on it enough to parrot it like he has any clue WTF he's talking about.
:clap: .......... :clap: .......... :clap: .......... ( slow hand clap for the special kid )
... in the absence of forced server updates at login...
^ Try reading this sentance again (from the post you quoted). If you didn't have the mental capacity of a developmentally challenged 5 year old you would note that it actually goes a lot further than your "lock out versions" statement above.
You are one of the least intelligent people who uses this forum. Please finish smoking the big bag of crack you obviously bought a couple of weeks ago then stop spamming word soup and trying to pass it off as English.
Please google "native code" then say some more clueless shit that makes me lol. I like it ;D
Yeah I guess I did ask for it ;D