Warcraft II Forum
Warcraft II => Server.War2.ru => Topic started by: Tolean on June 23, 2017, 11:27:06 AM
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Hi guys, i once saw some pro players speaking about power mining. Can anyone explain me what is this. How i understood its smth about hall posotion and it can be made only on some maps and only on some spots.
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hi Tolean, powermining happens when you place your hall in a specific spot diagonal to the goldmine which results in the optimal & powerful flowing of the peons. it can be done on any map as long as there's enough space to place the hall in the correct position relative to the mine but it's only relevant/beneficial on certain maps that are usually customs where you need to haul mad gold to support spamming many ogres or dragons
here you can see me place hall for pm in the first few seconds of the video on bgh no air map:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oY7Wc_4zDA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oY7Wc_4zDA)
and here you can see me place hall for alternate pm @ 00:25 of the video: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/59748139 (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/59748139)
these are the only two hall placements for pm.
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Hi guys, i once saw some pro players speaking about power mining. Can anyone explain me what is this. How i understood its smth about hall posotion and it can be made only on some maps and only on some spots.
Which side of the hall is placed relative to the mine also affects the flow. Look at my layout example screenshot on this post: http://forum.war2.ru/index.php?topic=3247.0 (http://forum.war2.ru/index.php?topic=3247.0)
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Thx guys, maybe in some games that some extra gold will help me to win/ survive.
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Thx guys, maybe in some games that some extra gold will help me to win/ survive.
Np :) it gives alot more gold than any other placement. I've seen that even pro gow players doesn't know how to power mine when they get the chance. But good gow players that knows chop farms, they usually make power mine when it's possible, for example U8... Some gowers doesn't even know how the chop bug works. And some choppers doesn't know the tower bug... Etc..
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you'd think tower bug would be quite importnat in chop?
i sort of know how chop bug works, i've read all about it and tested it a bunch, but i still don't predict it 100% :(
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you'd think tower bug would be quite importnat in chop?
yes, in left middle vs left top // right middle vs right top situations. otherwise, not so much. its because people use longer range cannon towers and they are too close to each other for towerbug to kick in
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Ok, now tell me pls what chop bug is? Is when you cancel a wall and hop out somewhere after the trees/ buidings?
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Tolean I think this is what he is referring to
https://web.archive.org/web/20090125022246/http://war2.warcraft.org:80/strategy/mechanics/magictrees.shtml (https://web.archive.org/web/20090125022246/http://war2.warcraft.org:80/strategy/mechanics/magictrees.shtml)
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That's it, it's also rehosted here btw :) http://occult.war2.ru/strategy/mechanics/magictrees.php (http://occult.war2.ru/strategy/mechanics/magictrees.php)
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Ok. About magictreesi read on occult. Thank you guys🙂
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I just made a new post about some easy patterns to learn when you play for example Chop Farms. (youtube video)
http://forum.war2.ru/index.php/topic,3326.0.html (http://forum.war2.ru/index.php/topic,3326.0.html)
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Just watched one of xurnt yt commentaries. Showing off a typical example of good "gow players" placing hall in wrong spot. I haven't played the map myself but I did spot that alf-attacking is the only one placing the hall in best spot, he was also the only one in the video that couldn't get power mine, because of how the tree line blocks his space. Vizzer, serist and alf-attack could have got power mines going here. Which would have increased their gold flow a lot.
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power mining isnt actually better until you hit around 16+ peons in the flow, until then there are a couple of other hall placement spots that are just as good.
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i wouldnt go for a powermine on a gow map, cmon heh. im sure some autistic dumbo like grzemini did the math... or lightbringer
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power mining isnt actually better until you hit around 16+ peons in the flow, until then there are a couple of other hall placement spots that are just as good.
You are wrong power mining also mean how long distance hall to mine(for example 11 peon got 4steps(sometimes 5)from hall to mine, 9 got only 3 steps) and how many times peon stuck for half second bettwen another peon
(http://s10.ifotos.pl/mini/9png_qpeprae.png) (http://ifotos.pl/z/qpeprae/)
(http://s2.ifotos.pl/mini/11png_qpepraa.png) (http://ifotos.pl/z/qpepraa/)
(http://s6.ifotos.pl/mini/5png_qpeprqp.png) (http://ifotos.pl/z/qpeprqp/)
even single power mining peon can make advantage on your opponent if he doesnt use/cant use power mining
on gow there isnt power mining spots (5 almost can be if u make hall right side, and 9 but if u make near bot trees and enemy s9/11 u insta lose and mid top mine)
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So its better to use it more for expansions? Befause in the main base you can feel the better gold flow only in late game...
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No but if u make hall on 9 one square down and enemy is s9/11 he can easy crush u, its to risky, but if i am 11/s9 and i am going dual its safe make better hall for better mining
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So its more effective in late game or for expansions?
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For anyone who doesn't already know:
Here's a pic of the 2 correct hall spots for a power mine.
(http://ss.war2.ru/ss/9398.gif)
This creates the highest possible gold flow rate. It's all about the peons not crashing into each other when you use this placement, they just walk straight to the mine and back to the hall.
As has been mentioned here, this is of little advantage when you don't have a lot of peons mining, as they rarely obstruct each other anyway, and on maps such as GOW where you typically have 60k or less in each mine there is no real point. The successful strats for these maps are well developed and they don't include power-mining.
Power mines are most useful when using a high gold strategy on maps that have larger amounts of gold in each mine.... most obviously air strats on custom maps where the mines have 600k+ gold.
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Thanks, this was clear and usefull.
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For anyone who doesn't already know:
Here's a pic of the 2 correct hall spots for a power mine.
([url]http://ss.war2.ru/ss/9398.gif[/url])
This creates the highest possible gold flow rate. It's all about the peons not crashing into each other when you use this placement, they just walk straight to the mine and back to the hall.
As has been mentioned here, this is of little advantage when you don't have a lot of peons mining, as they rarely obstruct each other anyway, and on maps such as GOW where you typically have 60k or less in each mine there is no real point. The successful strats for these maps are well developed and they don't include power-mining.
Power mines are most useful when using a high gold strategy on maps that have larger amounts of gold in each mine.... most obviously air strats on custom maps where the mines have 600k+ gold.
ofc it does matter even if u got 35k gold mine, for example gsew, both rushing 2 rax, some1 who got flow, will be allowed to make more units than another player, if some1 dont belive we can test it
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ofc it does matter even if u got 35k gold mine, for example gsew, both rushing 2 rax, some1 who got flow, will be allowed to make more units than another player, if some1 dont belive we can test it
I'm not an expert at GSEW, so if you say so I believe you.
.... and I agree, flow always matters, but in this case I would guess that that for the player with the bad flow, it is still not worth trying to chop a spot for a PM before halling or they would just end up further behind.
this is of little advantage when you don't have a lot of peons mining, as they rarely obstruct each other anyway
The point I was trying to make is that the advantage of a PM is most pronounced when you have a lot of peons mining i.e. around 30 peons per PM works well.
I would have thought that if your starting mine has 35k you wouldn't normally spend 12k on miners (plus more for choppers) just to get the gold. I think normally the mine would be empty before most players had that many. Obviously if you mess around being anal and trying to make a PM on a map like GOW you will get pwnt with grunts before you ever see the advantage that the PM might give you.
That being said, if terrain allows it and there is no tactical disadvantage from the hall position, then I always use PM placement by default, because it is the most efficiant way to mine.
:critter:
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ofc i wont make 30 peons but if both player got 10 peons, player with power mining will mine faster than player without power mining.
You need to remember u will got more res than opponent if u put your hall close to power mining
i made test 9 v 11 gow
3 peons per mine
9 took 20100(39900 left) gold while 11 took 18600(46400 left)
1500 diffrents and 9 wasnt perfect mining
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i made test 9 v 11 gow
3 peons per mine
9 took 20100(39900 left) gold while 11 took 18600(46400 left)
Cool research. Would be interesting to see stats for the other GOW spots as well.
Then there's other factors like with a few more peons, 11 is prone to blocking and causing peons to walk round the long way until you clear the tree to the left of your hall, so when playing 11 you have to use a peon early to chop that tree which would mean a bit less gold - similar thing at 4.
But of course none of them are PMs - You can't place a PM hall at any mine on the GOW map without clearing trees first.
Thanks, this was clear and usefull.
yw :)
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Nice MapHack Szwagier !...
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power mining isnt actually better until you hit around 16+ peons in the flow, until then there are a couple of other hall placement spots that are just as good.
This is not true... Guys listen to Szwagier....
PM is OP..