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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on August 26, 2018, 01:46:00 AM

Title: mccain's death
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on August 26, 2018, 01:46:00 AM
oh i created an irrelevant thread sorry :-\
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on August 26, 2018, 01:46:31 AM
owned
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: ~ToRa~ on August 26, 2018, 04:41:41 AM
John Mcain is a better human and more successful person than you will ever aspire to be marx.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on August 26, 2018, 08:30:36 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/xzMvS5p.jpg)
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on August 26, 2018, 08:31:19 AM

Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Lambchops on August 26, 2018, 09:06:55 AM

Well haha the pro life thing is funny at least, but blaming him for flying a plane that dropped bombs in a war is just stupid... or was he some 4 star super general who picked the targets then went and flew the plane as well?... if so then he should have been in the freakin A-Team, but I doubt it ;)

Not my favorite guy either really, but hardly irrelevant.

Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on August 26, 2018, 09:31:36 AM

Well haha the pro life thing is funny at least, but blaming him for flying a plane that dropped bombs in a war is just stupid... or was he some 4 star super general who picked the targets then went and flew the plane as well?... if so then he should have been in the freakin A-Team, but I doubt it ;)

Not my favorite guy either really, but hardly irrelevant.




"making him accountable for his war crimes is stupid"

...the fuck is this liberal retard, smh.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: ~ToRa~ on August 26, 2018, 11:37:15 AM
Which state u live in marx?
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on August 27, 2018, 07:52:55 AM
John Mcain is a better human and more successful person than you will ever aspire to be marx.

What a brave hero for burning Vietnamese children alive lol

Oh and then he even crashed the plane ahahhaahahhahaha. Viet Cong should have executed him on the spot
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Lambchops on August 27, 2018, 08:31:30 AM

Well haha the pro life thing is funny at least, but blaming him for flying a plane that dropped bombs in a war is just stupid... or was he some 4 star super general who picked the targets then went and flew the plane as well?... if so then he should have been in the freakin A-Team, but I doubt it ;)

Not my favorite guy either really, but hardly irrelevant.




"making him accountable for his war crimes is stupid"

...the fuck is this liberal retard, smh.

LMAO you don't even know what a war crime is. Go read up on that too, that's after you actually finish reading that facist doctrine you worship.

Who is more irrelevant the guy who posts memes and abuse on forums or ...... um ...... anybody at all?

Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on August 27, 2018, 09:18:14 AM

Well haha the pro life thing is funny at least, but blaming him for flying a plane that dropped bombs in a war is just stupid... or was he some 4 star super general who picked the targets then went and flew the plane as well?... if so then he should have been in the freakin A-Team, but I doubt it ;)

Not my favorite guy either really, but hardly irrelevant.




"making him accountable for his war crimes is stupid"

...the fuck is this liberal retard, smh.

LMAO you don't even know what a war crime is. Go read up on that too, that's after you actually finish reading that facist doctrine you worship.

Who is more irrelevant the guy who posts memes and abuse on forums or ...... um ...... anybody at all?




"LMAO BROWN PEOPLE BEING CHARRED BY NAPALM ISN'T A WAR CRIME U DON'T EVEN KNOW WAR CRIMES I'M HUGELY INTELLIGENT GALAXY BRAIN"
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on August 27, 2018, 03:29:46 PM

Well haha the pro life thing is funny at least, but blaming him for flying a plane that dropped bombs in a war is just stupid... or was he some 4 star super general who picked the targets then went and flew the plane as well?... if so then he should have been in the freakin A-Team, but I doubt it ;)

Not my favorite guy either really, but hardly irrelevant.




"making him accountable for his war crimes is stupid"

...the fuck is this liberal retard, smh.

LMAO you don't even know what a war crime is. Go read up on that too, that's after you actually finish reading that facist doctrine you worship.

Who is more irrelevant the guy who posts memes and abuse on forums or ...... um ...... anybody at all?



Incinerating civilians with napalm is a war crime iirc

Not to mention the many other wars he helped start in his political career, all to enrich his defense contractor buddies. How brave and heroic lol
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on August 27, 2018, 03:57:17 PM
It really shouldn't be "edgy" or even controversial to not care about John mccain's death.  It's just obvious.  He went and fought in a war of aggression that killed 4,000,000 vietnamese people for the purposes of imperialism.  got shot down trying to bomb a civilian power plant in downtown Hanoi that had previously been off limits due to the high risk of civilian casualties.  came back to the US and got into government where he was consistently on the side of racism and imperialism... voted against recognizing martin luther king jr, voted against condemning apartheid south africa, supported war in iraq, supported the war in yemen, supported nazis in ukraine, supported more and further war anywhere of interest to the american empire.  voted for the criminal tax cut too, was a corrupt bastard, has always and will always be on the wrong side of history
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: easycompany on August 27, 2018, 04:11:05 PM
hate to be him in the spiritual life..seems my prophecies group wont kick me out called them on the born in belief and a real belief lol dam jessu took out to soon i found a pile of them

dont knock the german bloodline im apart o them and u maybe to..you get poverty and a bringer of peace& prosperity ull get people doing all kinds of shit

u gotta give jesus mohammad something.just belive on to me with exclusions of these society ones hitler was all about race

whose the best one none of above gone to get some beer
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Lambchops on August 27, 2018, 11:38:08 PM

Incinerating civilians with napalm is a war crime iirc


I agree, but it's not the pilot's war crime.


Not to mention the many other wars he helped start in his political career, all to enrich his defense contractor buddies. How brave and heroic lol

Sure, I have made no comment on any of this. I'm certainly not a fan of his politics, nor would I suggest he was heroic (in fact I think he was a bit of an asshole), but using the horrible deaths of innocent people to push your own political barrow is callous, and just as much bullshit as the people trying to paint him as a hero.

Many soldiers kill people in wars. Many of them were only there because if they refused the draft they would be jailed. It's not a voluntary system, soldiers don't pick their targets and pilots may or may not even know what they are bombing, that's why soldiers in that position are not considered war criminals.

Who was the person that planned and ordered the bombing missions you care so much about? Who was the person who approved the use of napalm by the US military in the first place? Who was the pilot of the Enola Gay? I would guess you don't know and you don't really care, because that's not the barrow you are pushing.

Attack him on his politics and you won't get any argument from me.

But seriously don't trivialize horrific war crimes by using them for your own meme trash politics. It smells bad no matter which side is doing it.



-- edit --

"LMAO BROWN PEOPLE BEING CHARRED BY NAPALM ISN'T A WAR CRIME U DON'T EVEN KNOW WAR CRIMES I'M HUGELY INTELLIGENT GALAXY BRAIN"

Yeah I said you should read up on it. I suggest starting with:

Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (10 November 1998 and 12 July 1999). "Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court; Part 3: General Principles of Criminal Law; Article 33: Superior orders and prescription of law"

    .... you pea-brained meme regurgitator.

Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on August 27, 2018, 11:53:55 PM
mccain before he got shot down was like on his 30th indiscriminate bombing campaign, i wonder how many children he killed. he's a war criminal unquestionably. the war perpetrated by america on Vietnam was a crime against humanity. a total bullshit invasion beginning under false pretenses that we see still american perpetrate today in examples like the Iraq war.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Ywfn on August 28, 2018, 08:18:02 AM
I'm kinda with Lambchops on this one. Not really a fan of blaming the soldier, especially during that era. Lots of people got drafted against their will and brainwashed in to following orders no matter what.

I put the vast majority of the blame on the policy makers and the ones giving the orders. The military industrial complex, the military institution itself, hell, even the civilians who voted for/supported the politicians--I think they all have much more accountability than the soldiers. I think calling him a war criminal is disingenuous.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Lambchops on August 28, 2018, 08:40:24 AM
he's a war criminal unquestionably.

Read the law and use some common sense.

OMG of all the stuff you could be saying about McCain you just want your sensationalized meme to be true. You don't need to stupid about it, the truth speaks loud enough. He always reminded me of Henry Gibson's character in The Blues Brothers. Have at it!


....a total bullshit invasion beginning under false pretenses.

No argument here. That pretty much describes the start of every war since people started bothering with the false pretenses.


disingenuous.

Yes, exactly that. Thanks Ywfn.

Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on August 28, 2018, 09:30:55 AM
I agree, but it's not the pilot's war crime.

Do you realize "just following orders" was the defense of the nazis tried at Nuremburg? We settled this after WWII, "just following orders" is not a morally sound defense for murder.

Sure, I have made no comment on any of this. I'm certainly not a fan of his politics, nor would I suggest he was heroic (in fact I think he was a bit of an asshole), but using the horrible deaths of innocent people to push your own political barrow is callous, and just as much bullshit as the people trying to paint him as a hero.

It says a lot about you that you assume anyone opposed to the veneration of imperial butchers is just doing it to cynically push an agenda rather than expressing a sincere sentiment of moral outrage and horror. I wonder why you find it so hard to believe someone could have a sincere opposition to racist imperial genocide, hmmmm.

Many soldiers kill people in wars. Many of them were only there because if they refused the draft they would be jailed. It's not a voluntary system, soldiers don't pick their targets and pilots may or may not even know what they are bombing, that's why soldiers in that position are not considered war criminals.

McCain came from a rich family and volunteered to serve in the air force and help kill millions of vietnamese and poison their children for generations. Oops! You're full of shit!

Who was the person that planned and ordered the bombing missions you care so much about? Who was the person who approved the use of napalm by the US military in the first place? Who was the pilot of the Enola Gay? I would guess you don't know and you don't really care, because that's not the barrow you are pushing.

Why wouldn't I condemn those people too? Obviously I do but this thread is about McCain who is currently being blown by the American elite media as a great hero of human rights, so that's why I'm talking about McCain. You idiot

Attack him on his politics and you won't get any argument from me.

Yes just don't talk about his enthusiastic participation in genocide, that's not political somehow
 
But seriously don't trivialize horrific war crimes by using them for your own meme trash politics. It smells bad no matter which side is doing it.

Fuck off you slimy little weasel, suck this baby killer's dead dick some more.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on August 28, 2018, 09:33:41 AM
"LMAO BROWN PEOPLE BEING CHARRED BY NAPALM ISN'T A WAR CRIME U DON'T EVEN KNOW WAR CRIMES I'M HUGELY INTELLIGENT GALAXY BRAIN"

Yes he is racist. Vietnamese and Cambodian and laotian people don't count as human, exterminating them is an apolitical act like swatting flies. Sick settler colonial mentality
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on August 28, 2018, 09:38:33 AM
I'm kinda with Lambchops on this one. Not really a fan of blaming the soldier, especially during that era. Lots of people got drafted against their will and brainwashed in to following orders no matter what.
MCCAIN WASN'T DRAFTED HE WAS A RICH BOY WHO VOLUNTEERED TO INCINERATE VIETNAMESE CHILDREN FUCK OFF WITH THIS SHIT

This is also an insult to all the draftees in Vietnam who had the moral clarity to not participate in the war or even to actively undermine it - the conscientious objectors who went to prison, the mutinous GIs that dragged their officers, and the guy in the chopper who stopped My Lai by threatening to machine gun the marines. Plenty of people saw what was happening and refused to participate, they deserve credit for that and not being reduced to mindless pawns.

I put the vast majority of the blame on the policy makers and the ones giving the orders. The military industrial complex, the military institution itself, hell, even the civilians who voted for/supported the politicians--I think they all have much more accountability than the soldiers. I think calling him a war criminal is disingenuous.

Yeah good point McCain had a long history of opposing the military-industrial complex. Lol
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on August 28, 2018, 09:39:03 AM
he's a war criminal unquestionably.

Read the law and use some common sense.

OMG of all the stuff you could be saying about McCain you just want your sensationalized meme to be true. You don't need to stupid about it, the truth speaks loud enough. He always reminded me of Henry Gibson's character in The Blues Brothers. Have at it!


....a total bullshit invasion beginning under false pretenses.

No argument here. That pretty much describes the start of every war since people started bothering with the false pretenses.


disingenuous.

Yes, exactly that. Thanks Ywfn.



Fuck off cracker
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on August 28, 2018, 09:46:56 AM
?s=19
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on August 28, 2018, 11:00:40 AM
I put the vast majority of the blame on the policy makers and the ones giving the orders. The military industrial complex, the military institution itself, hell, even the civilians who voted for/supported the politicians--I think they all have much more accountability than the soldiers.
All the people you say we should blame are the ones McCain joined up with and even led post-Vietnam.  It's also the type of family he came from before signing up to fight.  He never met an imperialist conflict he didn't want.  Classic John McCain:

He was a ruling class warmonger through and through, and the world is a safer place without him...
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Lambchops on August 28, 2018, 11:04:50 AM
Do you realize "just following orders" was the defense of the nazis tried at Nuremburg? We settled this after WWII, "just following orders" is not a morally sound defense for murder.

Yes I am well aware. Nobody was tried at Nuremburg just for being a pilot. Nobody has ever even been charged with war crimes for simply being the guy driving the plane. Read the laws and use some common sense.


It says a lot about you that you assume anyone opposed to the veneration of imperial butchers is just doing it to cynically push an agenda rather than expressing a sincere sentiment of moral outrage and horror. I wonder why you find it so hard to believe someone could have a sincere opposition to racist imperial genocide, hmmmm.

It doesn't matter how morally outraged you are at the crimes, ascribing them to to guy driving the plane is just stupid. How about the guy who pushed the button to drop the bombs? How about the soldier who refuelled the plane, is he a war criminal too? How about the receptionist at front desk of the Air-Force base... war criminal?

How about the guy who gets the bombs out of storage and loads them on to the plane? .... now that guy definitely helped get those bombs there, is he a war criminal?


Many soldiers kill people in wars. Many of them were only there because if they refused the draft they would be jailed. It's not a voluntary system, soldiers don't pick their targets and pilots may or may not even know what they are bombing, that's why soldiers in that position are not considered war criminals.

McCain came from a rich family and volunteered to serve in the air force and help kill millions of vietnamese and poison their children for generations. Oops! You're full of shit!


Try reading. That entire paragraph doesn't even mention McCain, it's on defining a war criminal.

He was rich? So what? So was Elvis. He chose to join the air force? Again, so what? Even if you join the armed forces voluntarily you will still get court-martialed and thrown in a military prison if you refuse to follow orders. It's not a voluntary system.


Who was the person that planned and ordered the bombing missions you care so much about? Who was the person who approved the use of napalm by the US military in the first place? Who was the pilot of the Enola Gay? I would guess you don't know and you don't really care, because that's not the barrow you are pushing.

Why wouldn't I condemn those people too? Obviously I do but this thread is about McCain who is currently being blown by the American elite media as a great hero of human rights, so that's why I'm talking about McCain. You idiot


Again. Try reading. I didn't ask if you would condemn them, and I didn't ask why you were talking about McCain (you idiot ;)).

You can yell at you TV as much as you want. I am no supporter of John McCain, but his politics and every other thing he has done since he was 31 years old are totally irrellevant as to the question of him being a war criminal, and I haven't said anything about any of that.


Attack him on his politics and you won't get any argument from me.

Yes just don't talk about his enthusiastic participation in genocide, that's not political somehow



Not at all. If you have some quote from McCain where's he's saying how enthusiastic he is about killing civillians that's very relevent, post that meme.


But seriously don't trivialize horrific war crimes by using them for your own meme trash politics. It smells bad no matter which side is doing it.

Fuck off you slimy little weasel, suck this baby killer's dead dick some more.




     Settle petal. The guy is pretty easy to hate on without making stuff up, so hf, go hate on him.


                    :critter:


Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on August 28, 2018, 11:06:55 AM
It seems so distasteful to roast the old dead senator who's killed by cancer but that's what makes it necessary and brave... sometimes the truth isn't pretty but we have to speak it: so many people die from the silence and disengagement of American citizens who stand by and acquiesce to the horror!!!
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on August 28, 2018, 11:07:16 AM
In other words Jon and CumSavorer are bigger heroes than John McCain.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Lambchops on August 28, 2018, 11:11:10 AM
I put the vast majority of the blame on the policy makers and the ones giving the orders. The military industrial complex, the military institution itself, hell, even the civilians who voted for/supported the politicians--I think they all have much more accountability than the soldiers.
All the people you say we should blame are the ones McCain joined up with and even led post-Vietnam.  It's also the type of family he came from before signing up to fight.  He never met an imperialist conflict he didn't want.  Classic John McCain:

He was a ruling class warmonger through and through, and the world is a safer place without him...



That sounds about right.

Actually I would love to see someone make a case for him being a war criminal based on his activities after Vietnam. I doubt anyone could get the evidence to prove it, but IMO it's more realistic that calling him one because he was a pilot.


Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Lambchops on August 28, 2018, 11:17:40 AM
It seems so distasteful to roast the old dead senator who's killed by cancer but that's what makes it necessary and brave... sometimes the truth isn't pretty but we have to speak it: so many people die from the silence and disengagement of American citizens who stand by and acquiesce to the horror!!!



Brave? lol would you believe that I'm abslutely dying to lay the boots into him but sadly we got stuck on the bullshit.




He always reminded me of Henry Gibson's character in The Blues Brothers.




(http://forum.war2.ru/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4395.0;attach=2538)




Lol I just re-watched that scene with JM in mind and it even funnier ;D

Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: ~ToRa~ on August 28, 2018, 11:21:54 AM
In other words Jon and CumSavorer are bigger heroes than John McCain.

Yeah man a couple trolls on the internet are better and more successful than Mcain was.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on August 28, 2018, 11:22:45 AM
In other words Jon and CumSavorer are bigger heroes than John McCain.

Yeah man a couple trolls on the internet are better and more successful than Mcain was.
I'm glad we can come together and agree on this, and recognize a few of our own heroes here who fight the online battle everyday.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on August 28, 2018, 11:29:11 AM
I put the vast majority of the blame on the policy makers and the ones giving the orders. The military industrial complex, the military institution itself, hell, even the civilians who voted for/supported the politicians--I think they all have much more accountability than the soldiers.
All the people you say we should blame are the ones McCain joined up with and even led post-Vietnam.  It's also the type of family he came from before signing up to fight.  He never met an imperialist conflict he didn't want.  Classic John McCain:

He was a ruling class warmonger through and through, and the world is a safer place without him...



That sounds about right.

Actually I would love to see someone make a case for him being a war criminal based on his activities after Vietnam. I doubt anyone could get the evidence to prove it, but IMO it's more realistic that calling him one because he was a pilot.



i wonder who influences the definition of what a war criminal is. funny how war crimes rarely get attributed to the biggest perpetrator of them.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on August 28, 2018, 11:29:26 AM
the lionization of mccain post-death reminds me a lot of how people treat the murderous Israeli apartheid state, where cowardice from global onlookers is so seductive and everyone's tempted to say "ohh well both sides i dont know..." because that's kind of an accepted wisdom that we can all come together and agree upon, look at me, I'm being neutral and fair and conveniently and completely by accident I'm not sticking my neck out for anyone and I'm upsetting no one. inconveniently the colonization of Palestine continues unabated but of course I want uh peace! 

Likewise it's tempting to be like "oh I'm a liberal but that mccain, he was a war hero you know... an honorable man," just this sort of desire to please and be pleasant and to not make waves when on examination it's like look, this guy fought in an evil war, did evil things, came back and made it his life's mission to continue awful policies and wage new wars.  If we can actually say that and fight the impulse to quibble over the definition of "war criminal" we're all better off.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on August 28, 2018, 11:32:17 AM
Yes I am well aware. Nobody was tried at Nuremburg just for being a pilot. Nobody has ever even been charged with war crimes for simply being the guy driving the plane. Read the laws and use some common sense.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/oskar-groening-auschwitz-ss-bookkeeper-old-for-jail-holocaust-murder-jewish-poland-a8263491.html%3famp (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/oskar-groening-auschwitz-ss-bookkeeper-old-for-jail-holocaust-murder-jewish-poland-a8263491.html%3famp)

Just one recent example. And this is just a guard - mccain actually pressed the button to drop fire on children.
It doesn't matter how morally outraged you are at the crimes, ascribing them to to guy driving the plane is just stupid. How about the guy who pushed the button to drop the bombs? How about the soldier who refuelled the plane, is he a war criminal too? How about the receptionist at front desk of the Air-Force base... war criminal?

Yes all of them are culpable, especially if they were not drafted. Sorry it hurts your cracker feelings to hold them responsible for their contributions to genocide.

Try reading. That entire paragraph doesn't even mention McCain, it's on defining a war criminal.

So stay on topic you fucking imbecile. If the defense doesn't apply to McCain why make it? I guess you're conceding there is no moral justification for willfully participating in a genocidal war?

He was rich? So what? So was Elvis. He chose to join the air force? Again, so what? Even if you join the armed forces voluntarily you will still get court-martialed and thrown in a military prison if you refuse to follow orders. It's not a voluntary system.

The point is he had every opportunity to not participate in a genocidal organization and he did.  Not an innocent draftee as you jmply.

Lots of brave people refused to follow those orders and faced the consequences. Those are the heroes, not cowards like McCain who murder from thirty thousand feet and go on to cynically market themselves as a human rights champion.

Again. Try reading. I didn't ask if you would condemn them, and I didn't ask why you were talking about McCain (you idiot ;)).

Yea I'm stupid for thinking you were talking about mccain when responding to my post about mccain, you've outsmarted me by talking about something else entirely. Moron

Not at all. If you have some quote from McCain where's he's saying how enthusiastic he is about killing civillians that's very relevent, post that meme.

"I hate the g**ks, I will hate them as long as I live"

Definitely not a sentiment of a genocidal racist but a brave maverick
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: ~ToRa~ on August 28, 2018, 11:35:01 AM
In other words Jon and CumSavorer are bigger heroes than John McCain.

Yeah man a couple trolls on the internet are better and more successful than Mcain was.
I'm glad we can come together and agree on this, and recognize a few of our own heroes here who fight the online battle everyday.

@eyyy im walkin here u live in the DC area? I have an aunt in Georgetown, u be willing to meet me at some point? Im curious to see what u like in real life.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on August 28, 2018, 11:39:46 AM
the lionization of mccain post-death reminds me a lot of how people treat the murderous Israeli apartheid state, where cowardice from global onlookers is so seductive and everyone's tempted to say "ohh well both sides i dont know..." because that's kind of an accepted wisdom that we can all come together and agree upon, look at me, I'm being neutral and fair and conveniently and completely by accident I'm not sticking my neck out for anyone and I'm upsetting no one. inconveniently the colonization of Palestine continues unabated but of course I want uh peace! 

Likewise it's tempting to be like "oh I'm a liberal but that mccain, he was a war hero you know... an honorable man," just this sort of desire to please and be pleasant and to not make waves when on examination it's like look, this guy fought in an evil war, did evil things, came back and made it his life's mission to continue awful policies and wage new wars.  If we can actually say that and fight the impulse to quibble over the definition of "war criminal" we're all better off.


typical liberals tbh.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on August 28, 2018, 11:43:48 AM
usa illegally justified a war using the gulf of tonkin incident (false flag) and followed it with operation rolling thunder ( a serious bombing campaign that led to over 100k civilian deaths which mccain participated in). if this isn't a war crime there's no such thing as one.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on August 28, 2018, 11:48:07 AM
In other words Jon and CumSavorer are bigger heroes than John McCain.

Yeah man a couple trolls on the internet are better and more successful than Mcain was.

Correct
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on August 28, 2018, 11:49:32 AM
In other words Jon and CumSavorer are bigger heroes than John McCain.

Yeah man a couple trolls on the internet are better and more successful than Mcain was.
I'm glad we can come together and agree on this, and recognize a few of our own heroes here who fight the online battle everyday.

@eyyy im walkin here u live in the DC area? I have an aunt in Georgetown, u be willing to meet me at some point? Im curious to see what u like in real life.

Sad what closeted men are reduced to since craigslist got rid of casual encounters section
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on August 28, 2018, 11:50:39 AM
the lionization of mccain post-death reminds me a lot of how people treat the murderous Israeli apartheid state, where cowardice from global onlookers is so seductive and everyone's tempted to say "ohh well both sides i dont know..." because that's kind of an accepted wisdom that we can all come together and agree upon, look at me, I'm being neutral and fair and conveniently and completely by accident I'm not sticking my neck out for anyone and I'm upsetting no one. inconveniently the colonization of Palestine continues unabated but of course I want uh peace! 

Likewise it's tempting to be like "oh I'm a liberal but that mccain, he was a war hero you know... an honorable man," just this sort of desire to please and be pleasant and to not make waves when on examination it's like look, this guy fought in an evil war, did evil things, came back and made it his life's mission to continue awful policies and wage new wars.  If we can actually say that and fight the impulse to quibble over the definition of "war criminal" we're all better off.


typical liberals tbh.

Shocking that when their backs against the wall good libs always stan hard for white supremacist empire
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on August 28, 2018, 12:08:21 PM
With people like Trump rising in reaction to liberalism's failures we need to speak truth more than ever. We've got to challenge and reject corporate media narratives that are false, recognize imperialism and racism and the failures of the market, and be brave enough not to just look down at our feet and say "err cant we all just come together maybe i dont know..." because Trump and his ilk are not interested in playing nice, and the Republican party as an institution isn't interested in doing so either.  They proved that beyond a doubt during Obama's term, refusing to even have hearings for Scalia's SCOTUS replacement for a full year.  When you're too polite, or naive, or just too well-intentioned to treat them as the enemy, they'll take advantage of you to self-servingly further enrich the scumbags they rub elbows with and to further disenfranchise people of color and it'll be the majority of humanity that pays the price for their luxury.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Lambchops on August 28, 2018, 12:08:44 PM

i wonder who influences the definition of what a war criminal is. funny how war crimes rarely get attributed to the biggest perpetrator of them.



The biggest perpetrator is not the guy driving the plane.




Likewise it's tempting to be like "oh I'm a liberal but that mccain, he was a war hero you know... an honorable man," just this sort of desire to please and be pleasant and to not make waves when on examination it's like look, this guy fought in an evil war, did evil things, came back and made it his life's mission to continue awful policies and wage new wars.  If we can actually say that and fight the impulse to quibble over the definition of "war criminal" we're all better off.


Did I come accross as trying to be "pleasant" or in any way sympathetic or apologetic for John McCain? Oh God no...


My opinion is that he was a grotty little nazi asshole who probably closed his eyes and thought about bombing people while he was ploughing his wife.

But that's just my opinion.

That does not mean that wartime pilots should be called war criminals because bombs were dropped out of their plane. How many came home and committed suicide? How many ex-soldiers right now still have nightmares and wish they never went to war? How are their children coping wiith daddy(or mommy) waking up screaming? These people also read stuff on forums. I won't call them all war-criminals, and I don't mind sticking up for them - even if it's unpopular and it would be easier to just let it slide.



If you can't rip on a self-promoting power-hungry arrogant biggoted white supremacist without calling an entire group of mostly un-related people war criminals then you're just not doing it right.



                           :critter:
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Lambchops on August 28, 2018, 12:38:41 PM
With people like Trump rising in reaction to liberalism's failures we need to speak truth more than ever.


Exactly. The truth.

... and if you want to change hearts and minds, start by not alienating the entire armed forces. You may think you're just talking about one person, but but people will apply things to their own life and experience. Don't you want soldiers to vote with you?





If you can't rip on a self-promoting power-hungry arrogant biggoted white supremacist without calling an entire group of mostly un-related people war criminals then you're just not doing it right.


Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on August 28, 2018, 12:59:59 PM
With people like Trump rising in reaction to liberalism's failures we need to speak truth more than ever.


Exactly. The truth.

... and if you want to change hearts and minds, start by not alienating the entire armed forces. You may think you're just talking about one person, but but people will apply things to their own life and experience. Don't you want soldiers to vote with you?
Not really.  They're on the wrong side right now.  They're all volunteer and anyone that signed up post-Vietnam should have known what they were getting into.  If some of them have an epiphany and actually realize they're on the wrong side, I think they'll be understanding to angry people calling McCain a war criminal.  I mean, Trump won a national presidential election after saying John McCain wasn't a hero and he "prefers the pilots that don't get shot down."  Mincing words out of caution isn't really all that necessary, not as necessary as appealing to people that our current politics don't reach at all. 

You see Democrats constantly crying and whining about the 10,000 people that voted Green Party, and a mass political project hopefully would reach those Green Party voters, but even more, it would hopefully reach many of those who don't currently vote, a number that dwarfs the paltry third party votes. 

(https://i2.wp.com/live-nr-2017.pantheonsite.io/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Post20Incumbent20Part20320No20220VEP20198020to202016-2.jpg?resize=620%2C500&ssl=1)

(https://brilliantmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/did-not-vote-2016-update.png)

That's who I want to vote with me, more than troops defensive about their role as malevolent imperialist muscle.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on August 28, 2018, 01:24:02 PM
That does not mean that wartime pilots should be called war criminals because bombs were dropped out of their plane. How many came home and committed suicide
when it's an unjustified invasion of a foreign country and those bombs are dropped on ligh bulb factories where women are working, yea that's a crime against humanity.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on August 28, 2018, 01:49:32 PM
Exactly. The truth.

... and if you want to change hearts and minds, start by not alienating the entire armed forces. You may think you're just talking about one person, but but people will apply things to their own life and experience. Don't you want soldiers to vote with you?










No we don't want the kkkracker imperialist pig army on our side moron. They are the enemy. Do we want nazis on our side too? Lol

Also you say "exactly, the truth!" And then argue we should lie so the pigs will like us. Lmao
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Lambchops on August 28, 2018, 05:28:20 PM
Exactly. The truth.

... and if you want to change hearts and minds, start by not alienating the entire armed forces. You may think you're just talking about one person, but but people will apply things to their own life and experience. Don't you want soldiers to vote with you?

No we don't want the kkkracker imperialist pig army on our side moron. They are the enemy. Do we want nazis on our side too? Lol

Also you say "exactly, the truth!" And then argue we should lie so the pigs will like us. Lmao

No I said you should NOT lie or people with real life experience will smell the bullshit.

You think every kid who joins the army is an evil person? Then you are simply a moron and a facist, and no less biggoted than the KKK. Calling every soldier a war criminal is just stupid beyond belief. I fell dumb for even bothering to speak to you.


Is every kid who throws a rock at a tank also evil?


Don't bother answering that. I really don't care what crap falls out of your mouth next. I can already hear the answer: "it's ok if I like the side they're on".

FFS no wonder you retards elected Trump.

Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on August 28, 2018, 05:50:51 PM
when you equate it with throwing a rock at a tank, it sounds like you believe we're describing everyone who engages in the concept of violence as evil.  that's not it at all.  you have to investigate the purpose of the violence, and in the case of a military force, the history and current goals of that force.  in the US's case it's been pretty much universally evil since ww2, leaving millions dead always for the purpose increasing the US's relative strength in juxtaposition with non-aligned states. 

just take the tally: korean war - evil, up to 2m dead. vietnam war - evil, up to 4m dead.  iraq war - evil, up to 1m dead.  all these are cases of the US just deciding it doesn't like the way the people of a particular nation/state half the world away is handling their affairs and that it would prefer to go in there and wage war to precipitate an outcome more to its selfish preference.  it's bad all the time, throw in what was done in libya and syria, what's going on in palestine and yemen, what the US daydreams of doing to iran, when none of these places has shown aggression toward the US.

The people who join the US's fighting forces are signing up as enablers in violence on a massive scale, they are agents of a great evil, and they do so entirely willingly.  a lot of them are small people that grew up playing violent video games and want to go off and witness bloodshed, others are scions of people who have long served empire for profit as part of family tradition.  many are tricked by american fairytales and bedtime stories but they should know better before they sign the dotted line to risk their lives and end many others.  We can hope the ones who are good, who are simply misled, will change their minds and stop abetting in this worldwide wholesale slaughter, but that will only happen if we speak clearly.  Against fascism.  Against empire.  Against death to increase the profits of a very narrow segment of a population thousands of miles away from the sphere of battle.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on August 28, 2018, 06:45:21 PM
?s=19
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on August 28, 2018, 07:36:44 PM
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Lambchops on August 28, 2018, 08:24:02 PM
when you equate it with throwing a rock at a tank, it sounds like you believe we're describing everyone who engages in the concept of violence as evil.

It sounds a bit like you are prejudiced against dumb kids depending on what country they are born in.

you have to investigate the purpose of the violence, and in the case of a military force, the history and current goals... etc ... ( bunch of examples that I mostly agree with )

Yes and the American people should hold those responsible accountable for those actions, and get people with some common decency into those positions.

The people who join the US's fighting forces are signing up as enablers in violence on a massive scale, they are agents of a great evil, and they do so entirely
willingly............ but that will only happen if we speak clearly.  Against fascism.  Against empire.

They are mainly poor kids who don't have the money or the grades to go to college and don't want to work in the local coal mine or whatever. It's the same the world over. They are your fellow human-beings and you should be trying to educate and not alienate them.

Do you really think that if you say "don't be a soldier because our country is rich and our leaders are corrupt" that people will stop joining the army? At best, you might stop a few of the slightly more educated ones, and slightly decrease the IQ of average soldier. Do you think this attitude is ever going to result in the type of soldier that will refuse to carry out a criminal order?

In some alternate reality where this would actually stop people signing up, they would just re-introduce conscription. In some absolutely impossible world where this actually caused the US to lose its armed forces then America would cease to exist. You would all be speaking Russian or Chinese or even Spanish.

The US armed forces may be over-funded, oversized and mainly used for aggression, but that is a problem with the people running the country and giving the orders. If there was no army at all there would be no over-privileged middle class people that are too lazy to get off their couch and vote... just ask the native Americans what happens when you have a big, resource rich continent and someone with a bigger stick than you wants to take it.

I absolutely agree that most of America's foreign military activity has been acts of aggression and that the people responsible are criminals and should be stopped. The way to do that is not by pointing the finger at soldiers, it's by educating the stupid people who let them do it - the electorate (which includes the soldiers).

War is old men sending young men to die, blaming the young men is just cheap and easy.

Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on August 28, 2018, 10:56:43 PM
lol what a rotting liberal brain.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Lambchops on August 29, 2018, 01:36:37 AM
lol what a rotting liberal brain.

Haha don't you ever get sick of being wrong? It must wear you down after a while surely....
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: ~ToRa~ on August 29, 2018, 01:48:43 AM
The people who join the US's fighting forces are signing up as enablers in violence on a massive scale, they are agents of a great evil, and they do so entirely willingly.  a lot of them are small people that grew up playing violent video games and want to go off and witness bloodshed, others are scions of people who have long served empire for profit as part of family tradition.  many are tricked by american fairytales and bedtime stories but they should know better before they sign the dotted line to risk their lives and end many others.  We can hope the ones who are good, who are simply misled, will change their minds and stop abetting in this worldwide wholesale slaughter, but that will only happen if we speak clearly.  Against fascism.  Against empire.  Against death to increase the profits of a very narrow segment of a population thousands of miles away from the sphere of battle.


Trolling aside let’s be real for a min.

18 year olds that join the military do so mainly because of the benefits that come with being a veteran. Many of these kids join the military with the intention of having the government paying for their college degree, which would otherwise be unattainable.

Saying these kids are “evil” is a bit of a stretch u disagree @eyyy im walkin here ?
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on August 29, 2018, 07:42:38 AM
lol what a rotting liberal brain.

it really is a mental disorder
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on August 29, 2018, 07:44:20 AM
The people who join the US's fighting forces are signing up as enablers in violence on a massive scale, they are agents of a great evil, and they do so entirely willingly.  a lot of them are small people that grew up playing violent video games and want to go off and witness bloodshed, others are scions of people who have long served empire for profit as part of family tradition.  many are tricked by american fairytales and bedtime stories but they should know better before they sign the dotted line to risk their lives and end many others.  We can hope the ones who are good, who are simply misled, will change their minds and stop abetting in this worldwide wholesale slaughter, but that will only happen if we speak clearly.  Against fascism.  Against empire.  Against death to increase the profits of a very narrow segment of a population thousands of miles away from the sphere of battle.


Trolling aside let’s be real for a min.

18 year olds that join the military do so mainly because of the benefits that come with being a veteran. Many of these kids join the military with the intention of having the government paying for their college degree, which would otherwise be unattainable.

Saying these kids are “evil” is a bit of a stretch u disagree @eyyy im walkin here ?

He said they are "agents of a great evil," which is a distinction. They are doing evil acts for evil ends, whether they realize they are or not, and thus they are complicit in them.

Again, many soldiers with consciences in places like Vietnam refused to serve or obey unethical or unlawful orders. This happens much less now since the military is all volunteer, so its self selecting for people who want to go kill helpless people in their homes, but it still puts the lie to this excuse.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on August 29, 2018, 07:46:14 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre#Helicopter_crew_intervention

Quote
Warrant Officer (WO1) Hugh Thompson, Jr., a helicopter pilot from Company B (Aero-Scouts), 123rd Aviation Battalion, Americal Division, saw dead and wounded civilians as he was flying over the village of Sơn Mỹ, providing close-air support for ground forces.[47] The crew made several attempts to radio for help for the wounded. They landed their helicopter by a ditch, which they noted was full of bodies and in which there was movement.[47] Thompson asked a sergeant he encountered there (David Mitchell of the 1st Platoon) if he could help get the people out of the ditch, and the sergeant replied that he would "help them out of their misery". Thompson, shocked and confused, then spoke with Calley, who claimed to be "just following orders". As the helicopter took off, Thompson saw Mitchell firing into the ditch.[47]

Thompson and his crew witnessed an unarmed woman being kicked and shot at point-blank range by Captain Medina, who later claimed that he thought she had a hand grenade.[48] Thompson then saw a group of civilians (again consisting of children, women, and old men) at a bunker being approached by ground personnel. Thompson landed and told his crew that if the soldiers shot at the Vietnamese while he was trying to get them out of the bunker that they were to open fire on these soldiers.[47]

You cheapen real courage and sacrifice and decency like this when you say the perpetrators of this massacre are no worse than the people who stopped it.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on August 29, 2018, 08:52:39 AM
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/28/politics/lindsey-graham-john-mccain-senate-floor/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/28/politics/lindsey-graham-john-mccain-senate-floor/index.html)

lol lets hope this closet case is next
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on August 29, 2018, 10:06:39 AM

ahahahhahahahahaha
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on August 29, 2018, 10:52:23 AM
The people who join the US's fighting forces are signing up as enablers in violence on a massive scale, they are agents of a great evil, and they do so entirely willingly.  a lot of them are small people that grew up playing violent video games and want to go off and witness bloodshed, others are scions of people who have long served empire for profit as part of family tradition.  many are tricked by american fairytales and bedtime stories but they should know better before they sign the dotted line to risk their lives and end many others.  We can hope the ones who are good, who are simply misled, will change their minds and stop abetting in this worldwide wholesale slaughter, but that will only happen if we speak clearly.  Against fascism.  Against empire.  Against death to increase the profits of a very narrow segment of a population thousands of miles away from the sphere of battle.


Trolling aside let’s be real for a min.

18 year olds that join the military do so mainly because of the benefits that come with being a veteran. Many of these kids join the military with the intention of having the government paying for their college degree, which would otherwise be unattainable.

Saying these kids are “evil” is a bit of a stretch u disagree @eyyy im walkin here ?
when you equate it with throwing a rock at a tank, it sounds like you believe we're describing everyone who engages in the concept of violence as evil.

It sounds a bit like you are prejudiced against dumb kids depending on what country they are born in.
not really, i said they are doing evil, not that they are evil.  I mean, like i said, everyone should think and investigate long and hard before they sign up to kill other human beings and possibly be killed themselves, so they should know better before enlisting.  but many, who dont knowingly hold any ill intentions, fail in this regard.  and doing it to get some benefits or free school, murdering strangers overseas, isnt really an excuse, esp when knowing the majority of people in the US military actually arent coming from the poorest communities.  the people who dont suck and who make a mistake, like i said, will hopefully come around if we speak clearly and loudly.  the people that arent interested in changing their minds, who refuse to do so, even if theyre not intentionally "bad people," are quite simply not on our side, and thats fine with me.  what that means though is i dont censor myself and refrain from saying what i see as the truth out of fear of offending them.  let them listen and see.  if theyre against us then let them be against us.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: ~ToRa~ on August 29, 2018, 11:22:20 AM
^^Do you consider soldiers to be like dogs?
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on August 29, 2018, 11:25:04 AM
^^Do you consider soldiers to be like dogs?

Yes they just sort of do things arbitrarily.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on August 29, 2018, 11:32:35 AM
^^Do you consider soldiers to be like dogs?
No I love dogs.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: ~ToRa~ on August 29, 2018, 12:33:40 PM
^^Do you consider soldiers to be like dogs?
No I love dogs.

Lmao u something else white boy.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Ywfn on August 29, 2018, 02:08:42 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre#Helicopter_crew_intervention (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre#Helicopter_crew_intervention)

Quote
Warrant Officer (WO1) Hugh Thompson, Jr., a helicopter pilot from Company B (Aero-Scouts), 123rd Aviation Battalion, Americal Division, saw dead and wounded civilians as he was flying over the village of Sơn Mỹ, providing close-air support for ground forces.[47] The crew made several attempts to radio for help for the wounded. They landed their helicopter by a ditch, which they noted was full of bodies and in which there was movement.[47] Thompson asked a sergeant he encountered there (David Mitchell of the 1st Platoon) if he could help get the people out of the ditch, and the sergeant replied that he would "help them out of their misery". Thompson, shocked and confused, then spoke with Calley, who claimed to be "just following orders". As the helicopter took off, Thompson saw Mitchell firing into the ditch.[47]

Thompson and his crew witnessed an unarmed woman being kicked and shot at point-blank range by Captain Medina, who later claimed that he thought she had a hand grenade.[48] Thompson then saw a group of civilians (again consisting of children, women, and old men) at a bunker being approached by ground personnel. Thompson landed and told his crew that if the soldiers shot at the Vietnamese while he was trying to get them out of the bunker that they were to open fire on these soldiers.[47]

You cheapen real courage and sacrifice and decency like this when you say the perpetrators of this massacre are no worse than the people who stopped it.

But I don't think anyone is actually arguing that straw-man. At least I'm not.

It's true that I'm cautious with the term "war criminal" when it comes to soldiers, due to the massive amount of indoctrinating/propaganda done by the military and American society generally (dying for our "freedoms", communism is evil, etc). But I'm also not really a fan of the hero-worship culture which surrounds service members. While I don't know any more about this situation than what you just quoted here in this thread, based on what is there, I absolutely do recognize the incredible amount of bravery and integrity such heroism requires, and certainly feel that is a distinguishing differentiator from the more or less apathy I have towards your rank and file soldiers.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on August 29, 2018, 02:17:45 PM
^^Do you consider soldiers to be like dogs?
No I love dogs.

Lmao u something else white boy.
ur the whitest bitch here
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Lambchops on August 29, 2018, 06:43:46 PM
everyone should think and investigate long and hard before they sign up to kill other human beings

Everyone should think long and hard before they VOTE. If the American people actually disapproved of what their country did to others, they wouldn't continue to elect war-mongers and worship guns in their own homes.

Sitting safe and isolated in the extremely privileged position that the US military has provided for you and blaming the soldiers is a bit weak.

Why don't you go and knock on your neighbors' doors and call the ones who voted for this stuff "child killing agents of evil", or is that too close to home?

Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on August 29, 2018, 07:00:06 PM
everyone should think and investigate long and hard before they sign up to kill other human beings

Everyone should think long and hard before they VOTE. If the American people actually disapproved of what their country did to others, they wouldn't continue to elect war-mongers and worship guns in their own homes.

Sitting safe and isolated in the extremely privileged position that the US military has provided for you and blaming the soldiers is a bit weak.

Why don't you go and knock on your neighbors' doors and call the ones who voted for this stuff "child killing agents of evil", or is that too close to home?



The American political system is not democratic, ordinary people do not have a say in the United States political system, it is run expressly by and for capitalist warmongers (such as John McCain).
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Lambchops on August 29, 2018, 07:01:55 PM
But I don't think anyone is actually arguing that straw-man. At least I'm not.

Of course not. Wasn't Thompson already a war criminal just for being an army pilot? But now he's suddenly the epitome of "real courage and sacrifice and decency". Perhaps it is possible to be an army pilot and a decent person after all eh?
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Lambchops on August 29, 2018, 07:16:16 PM
ROTF Thank you for owning yourself so hard.


The American political system is not democratic, ordinary people do not have a say in the United States political system, it is run expressly by and for capitalist warmongers (such as John McCain).

... and that's what you tell yourself when you don't vote isn't it? BAHAHAHAHAHAHA 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy)
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on August 29, 2018, 11:06:57 PM
ROTF Thank you for owning yourself so hard.


The American political system is not democratic, ordinary people do not have a say in the United States political system, it is run expressly by and for capitalist warmongers (such as John McCain).

... and that's what you tell yourself when you don't vote isn't it? BAHAHAHAHAHAHA 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy)

you god damn fucking retard, fucking HARVARD did studies on this shit.. they find government policy is driven by corporations, not ordinary people. this was already obvious to woke people like me, but now you got real studies by universities telling you this shit. you have no democracy.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on August 30, 2018, 11:05:59 AM
everyone should think and investigate long and hard before they sign up to kill other human beings

Everyone should think long and hard before they VOTE. If the American people actually disapproved of what their country did to others, they wouldn't continue to elect war-mongers and worship guns in their own homes.

Sitting safe and isolated in the extremely privileged position that the US military has provided for you and blaming the soldiers is a bit weak.

Why don't you go and knock on your neighbors' doors and call the ones who voted for this stuff "child killing agents of evil", or is that too close to home?


even if it's true that people should think long and hard before voting, does that make it less true that people should think long and hard before joining a killing machine

anyway yeah people voting for republicans suck and are fucking up but bourgeois elections will only offer bourgeois candidates... you dont change the world by electing barack obama, as is clear.  and that WAS an insurgent campaign against a frontrunner!  hillary clinton wouldnt be significantly less eager to advance the interests of US imperialism than trump is, either.  almost any candidate that would push for real change is priced out by corporations and rich donors funding the campaigns of their opposition.  It's broke and only a severe economic catastrophe and/or revolutionary movement can potentially fix it
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Ywfn on August 30, 2018, 01:32:33 PM
It's broke and only a severe economic catastrophe and/or revolutionary movement can potentially fix it

I think a severe economic catastrophe fixing it is unlikely. I suspect enough of the bourgeois are wise enough to know that they have the most to lose from an economic meltdown, and will do all they can to prevent it, even if that means walking back some of the recent policies and tax breaks that benefit them greatly. I think the only reason things have gotten as far as they have, is that they don't think we're there yet.

Realistically I think a revolutionary movement is the only option.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on August 30, 2018, 02:38:35 PM
Yeah maybe although I don't think the rich will willingly give anything up.  Even if they're fucking up the economy and worsening their own long-term outlook they'll continue to prioritize immediate profits... if some Bernie-type people who don't take lobbyist money etc get into office and roll out some soft socialist reforms that will be against their will, and if the threat of revolution gets great enough that they're scared for their own security they might give something up of their own volition but I wouldn't call that "willingly."

One bad thing is that national guard cops etc are gonna happily gun down protesters if things start getting chippy and another bad thing is that we're cooking the planet in the meantime.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Ywfn on August 30, 2018, 03:12:29 PM
if the threat of revolution gets great enough that they're scared for their own security they might give something up of their own volition but I wouldn't call that "willingly."

Yea, that's pretty much what I meant. A stable country is what enables them to keep their wealth. They know that if things get too bad, their safety is at risk.

another bad thing is that we're cooking the planet in the meantime.

Well, duh, but that's a completely different, and more concerning problem. At least with poverty and income inequality, the vast majority of the electorate are in "general" agreement that these are pretty big problems, they just have very different philosophies on the solution. With climate change, I'm not even sure we have a majority that believes it's even a problem, never mind a significant one.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on August 30, 2018, 03:26:08 PM
It's funny because climate science shouldn't theoretically be a left/right issue.  Scientists simply study the climate and say what they've found.  And yet Fox News and the right have taken a strong position against there being man-made climate change... why would that be?  But of course "Joe Sixpack" will never question why protecting energy company profits from regulation is so important to him.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Ywfn on August 30, 2018, 03:53:46 PM
Well, as i'm sure you know, the narrative is that scientists have an economic interest on the issue, and therefore, cannot be trusted to be objective.

Joe Sixpack doesn't think he's protecting energy company profits. He's fooled in to believing that it's scientists that are protecting their own funding source at his expense (increased energy costs to his family) and doesn't want that to happen.

It's a very dangerous and tragic "I know you are, but what am I..." situation.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on August 30, 2018, 06:56:00 PM
ROTF Thank you for owning yourself so hard.


The American political system is not democratic, ordinary people do not have a say in the United States political system, it is run expressly by and for capitalist warmongers (such as John McCain).

... and that's what you tell yourself when you don't vote isn't it? BAHAHAHAHAHAHA 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy)

lol fucking dumbass

https://www.vox.com/2014/4/18/5624310/martin-gilens-testing-theories-of-american-politics-explained (https://www.vox.com/2014/4/18/5624310/martin-gilens-testing-theories-of-american-politics-explained)

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746 (https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746)

shut the fuck up idiot
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on August 30, 2018, 11:22:19 PM
Well, as i'm sure you know, the narrative is that scientists have an economic interest on the issue


that argument always made me laugh.  it's the scientists that are evil and conniving looking for profit, not the benevolent petroleum companies.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Lambchops on August 31, 2018, 02:41:06 AM
Yeah change the subject and you're still wrong.

No comment from the genius who said all soldiers and even the receptionst at the front desk are all war criminals then cited and example of an army pilot as having "real courage sacrifice and decency".


  ... and you still cant smell your own bullshit you say? Doesn't matter because if you don't vote your opinion is literally worthless.

Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Lambchops on August 31, 2018, 10:01:38 AM
even if it's true that people should think long and hard before voting, does that make it less true that people should think long and hard before joining a killing machine

Indeed no. People should think and consider their actions before and especially after joining the armed forces. I applaud actions like those of WO Thompson, cited above. He is undoubtably a genuine and courageous hero.

If there was suddenly a trend towards people abstaining from joining the armed forces for ethical reasons, wouldn't such men of conscience but the first to do so? What would the soldiers that remain be like without their more intelligent/enlightened cohorts amoungst their ranks?

Having no army is sadly just unrealistic while there are still agressive people in the world. In the end every solution for this always boils down to the same core problem: This can only be achieved when all the "evil" people are removed/subdued/converted, and then the world could live in peace. It's been a popular idea over the years, guys like Hitler were right into it.

IMHO the only ethical solution is to reduce aggression while maintaining enough of a deterrant to encourage others to do the same, then to engage with all people and encourage the exchange of ideas and goodwill. Eventually all sides could reduce their armed forces to a token amount and enjoy the very real economic benefits that would result.

I admit this is not very likely in the short term, but it's a nice thought. Having no defence force at all is just impossible unless you conquor the world first, because as soon as you had no army, someone else would move their army in.... and then you have an army again ;)



anyway yeah people voting for republicans suck and are fucking up but bourgeois elections will only offer bourgeois candidates... you dont change the world by electing barack obama, as is clear.  and that WAS an insurgent campaign against a frontrunner!  hillary clinton wouldnt be significantly less eager to advance the interests of US imperialism than trump is, either.  almost any candidate that would push for real change is priced out by corporations and rich donors funding the campaigns of their opposition.  It's broke and only a severe economic catastrophe and/or revolutionary movement can potentially fix it


Yes. Western democracy is a flawed system that is open to corruption and manipulation at all levels, but it is still the best system that the human race has come up with (so far).

People with power always have their thumb on the scales, but if there is large enough move in a particular direction then the population can change the leadership. This single fact is quite miraclulous when you consider the history of humanity. Historically the only way to achieve this has been to enact a coup and slaughter the previous ruling class, and it is rare for a person who takes power this way to be a humanitarian.

There is still a long way to go and its a slow process, but if there is enough voting pressure in a given direction the the people running for office will slowly start shifting their policies in that direction.

Is this perfect? No way. But how else are you going to do it? Hitler's way? What is this revolutionary movement going to do? Seize power then conquor the world in the name of peace?


Mate, it's not "broke" it's just not finished yet. Maybe in another couple of hundred years. Do the work.   :critter:
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on August 31, 2018, 10:29:49 AM
Yeah change the subject and you're still wrong.

No comment from the genius who said all soldiers and even the receptionst at the front desk are all war criminals then cited and example of an army pilot as having "real courage sacrifice and decency".


  ... and you still cant smell your own bullshit you say? Doesn't matter because if you don't vote your opinion is literally worthless.



You are a triggered moron lol.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Lambchops on August 31, 2018, 10:44:43 AM
You are a triggered moron lol.

hahaha .... you're the one who got all serious and butt-hurt on your troll account, I'm just being me and pwning u. hf ;)
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on August 31, 2018, 11:31:16 AM
Yes. Western democracy is a flawed system that is open to corruption and manipulation at all levels, but it is still the best system that the human race has come up with (so far)


stupid liberals
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on August 31, 2018, 04:18:55 PM
Yes. Western democracy is a flawed system that is open to corruption and manipulation at all levels, but it is still the best system that the human race has come up w

"I'm actually laughing"
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: 3bdushakur on September 09, 2018, 05:49:38 PM
oh i created an irrelevant thread sorry :-\

Lol, you faggot.

I wish you and CockSucker (@CumSavorer4385) were among the Vietnamese that were incenerated by napalm. FYL.
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on September 09, 2018, 07:16:43 PM
america only does that to brown and muslim peoples
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: 3bdushakur on September 10, 2018, 11:30:02 AM
america only does that to brown and muslim peoples

Suck a dick @marx was right
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on September 13, 2018, 06:50:16 PM
oh i created an irrelevant thread sorry :-\

Lol, you faggot.

I wish you and CockSucker (@CumSavorer4385) were among the Vietnamese that were incenerated by napalm. FYL.


Hahahaha did I trigger you little snowflake?
Title: Re: mccain's death
Post by: easycompany on September 13, 2018, 09:49:34 PM
dudes lol its just age thank god its a justifier.let elect trump again i dont think hell make 75+ u start goin bat shit when u know not of alot of time is left

dont worry my muhammad freind is see fuckboi snap his fingers for beer at the bar having a good time ..we gonna get his ass in the bathroom.