Warcraft II Forum

Warcraft II => Server.War2.ru => Topic started by: iL on September 04, 2019, 04:16:08 PM

Title: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: iL on September 04, 2019, 04:16:08 PM
Well, one of arguments against chop bars is someone can use it and others can know nothing about that.
Then that will give an advantage to those who use it.

Same logic as for warlatency 10-12 years ago, till that have been included into combat.
edited: Same logic for black2pink, but not so many people think it's a hack.

Do you guys think there was an error and warlat should not be included that days black2pink should not be included into combat?

Let's discuss about chop bars and some more plugins possible in future releases.

My opinion is we need to make some fresh improvements to attract new players, and of course to not break the gameplay and to not make any agvantages to one player over another.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on September 04, 2019, 04:25:48 PM
There's a difference between a fix and a hack. 

A fix is correcting something that is flawed.  We all want to have an optimal experience, so of course we should use, and include, Warlat in Combat. 

A hack is something that adds a new ability. 

Chop meter is a hack.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on September 04, 2019, 04:27:32 PM
Chop meters, health bars, rally points, unit queues, and auto-heal could be seen as "improvements" but they are not fixes or "debugs," and were not part of the original game.  They shouldn't be used in the original game environment and should only be part of some big "War2 Remastered" project relaunching the game.  In the current game environment they would all be categorized as hacks.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 04, 2019, 04:30:15 PM
Nothing is a hack untill it came with original version's and everyone can use them.

(Aternative) Can also com from the DL section of the official website of war2ru combat.

Even map hack can be consider totally legit if it came in the original version.

A hack is not a software or a modification of the game, a hack is a software or even an hardware that only you or a group of person can use to increase your skills against some other peoples who cant have that priviledge.


Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 04, 2019, 04:36:04 PM
There's a difference between a fix and a hack. 

A fix is correcting something that is flawed.  We all want to have an optimal experience, so of course we should use, and include, Warlat in Combat. 

A hack is something that adds a new ability. 

Chop meter is a hack.


Fix mean nothing bro, the word you are looking for is * updates * wich mean you do a modification in the game to bring something new… There no rules or no code about you cant touch a game until something have to be fix because it's trash to play like that… its 2019 and Everygame do updates and its not only about fixing it but also about bring something new!

Chop bar is not a hack, chop bar is a tool, period.

It's a hack if lambchop use it secretly with his group of geeks, but it's not if we add it to the game and everyone have it.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: {Lance} on September 04, 2019, 04:37:33 PM
Well, one of arguments against chop bars is someone can use it and others can know nothing about that.
Then that will give an advantage to those who use it.

Same logic as for warlatency 10-12 years ago, till that have been included into combat.

Do you guys think there was an error and warlat should not be included that days?

Let's discuss about chop bars and some more plugins possible in future releases.

My opinion is we need to make some fresh improvements to attract new players, and of course to not break the gameplay and to not make any agvantages to one player over another.

Actually that isnt correct.  Warlat works for EVERYONE whether they have it or not.  Once someone in the game has enabled it,  it works for EVERYONE.  So war2combat didnt standardize it's use,  it merely added it so that anyone could enable it.

I think the improvement you are looking for is the one I've been suggesting.  The ability to enable mods from the game launch form and have which options are enabled either in the form of a URL that someone can click on when they enter the lobby,  or displaying them all right in the lobby itself (which is the most user friendly but hardest method).  Another method might be a server command,  something like /gameoptions  and it'll show which mods the game creator is allowing.

But until that happens,  things like the chop bars is a HACK that shouldnt be allowed.  IMO it actually ruins micro gaming.  Those that dont know what micro'ing is or think it's irrelevant wont understand why I think it's a hack instead of some sort of improvement.  If war2 had started with the status bars and had it for 20+yrs,  maybe it would be ok,  but thats not reality.  It also gives those that dont have it a clear disadvantage.  There is absolutely NO arguing that someone using it will have an advantage over someone not using it because it directly affects the economy of the game which is INTEGRAL to the game itself.  So to compare War2lat to the Chop meter is INCORRECT.  If you're looking for something that the game ALREADY has as an example, then the Pink 2 Black HACK is the only example you can use.  I personally consider that a hack because it killed off a whole fun part of war2 with being stealthy simply because u are black but many do NOT consider it a hack and instead consider it a bug fix.  They instead view it as fixing a deficiency in the game,  similar to what War2lat does.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: tk[as] on September 04, 2019, 04:39:50 PM
There's a difference between a fix and a hack. 

A fix is correcting something that is flawed.  We all want to have an optimal experience, so of course we should use, and include, Warlat in Combat. 

A hack is something that adds a new ability. 

Chop meter is a hack.

Agree.

This applies to the black to pink hack/patch imo. The color black on the mini-map was an error. The black2pink fixed that. It gives no unfair advantages.. just puts the observer on an even playing field.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: {Lance} on September 04, 2019, 04:40:57 PM
BTW,  why cant I vote?  There are no bullet elements for me to select.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 04, 2019, 04:41:54 PM
Chop meters, health bars, rally points, unit queues, and auto-heal could be seen as "improvements" but they are not fixes or "debugs," and were not part of the original game.  They shouldn't be used in the original game environment and should only be part of some big "War2 Remastered" project relaunching the game.  In the current game environment they would all be categorized as hacks.

Please here again, forget the original game! We leave the original game because it was dead and there was absolutly no updates and nobody to take cares of us.

Our actual ladder we are using is not from the actual game and we totally enjoy it, igl was not from the actual game and we totally have enjoy it, warlat is not from our actual game and we totally enjoy it…

All those update need to be in the official war2ru combat, there no time to waste on solo campain and resmastered version and different version…

We are war2ru combat and we did our own things! Forget Warcraft II battle net edition, Warcraft II is dead, war2ru combat is what have keep us togheter.

Our moderation, our updates, our community, our ideas..

We cant stand on the same things over and over, new stuff is good, new stuff is live.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: iL on September 04, 2019, 04:45:55 PM
BTW,  why cant I vote?  There are no bullet elements for me to select.
Ops, was locked somehow, maybe that was me, no idea, unlocked...
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: {Lance} on September 04, 2019, 04:48:33 PM
Fixed now.  Maybe change War2Lat to Black to Pink as thats the correct comparison?
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: iL on September 04, 2019, 04:49:06 PM
Actually that isnt correct.  Warlat works for EVERYONE whether they have it or not.  Once someone in the game has enabled it,  it works for EVERYONE.  So war2combat didnt standardize it's use,  it merely added it so that anyone could enable it.
So, why people in 2007 or 2008 called warlat a hack?
As i understand warlat moves latency proper value only for those who had it activated.
For others it just changes latency to extra high and then back to low...
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: iL on September 04, 2019, 04:49:54 PM
Fixed now.  Maybe change War2Lat to Black to Pink as thats the correct comparison?
ok, i'll try (probably will erase voices)
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: {Lance} on September 04, 2019, 04:52:56 PM
So, why people in 2007 or 2008 called warlat a hack?
As i understand warlat moves latency proper value only for those who had it activated.
For others it just changes latency to extra high and then back to low...

Im not sure why you think that,  I've never heard anyone call warlat a hack.  As for how it works,  for anyone who DOESNT have it,  it will appear as though someone set it from high to low (unless they also have warlat,  then they will also get see the strange chars),  but if you know enough about war2,  you'd notice that its NOT actually low,  its using pkt:4.  Low is pkt: 5  Theres a very subtle difference between the two and you wouldnt notice it unless you've been playing for a very long time.  The pkt setting isnt even from the Battlenet edition.  It's from the old Dos addition which had 8 settings,  all the way down to 1 but everyone and their dog always used pkt:4 because that produced the best responsiveness vs lag in the game.  The dos game defaulted to pkt:7 I believe.  But with BNE it didnt include those settings,  it only had 5, 6, and 7.  So Warlat provided us with pkt:4
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 04, 2019, 04:53:09 PM
Actually that isnt correct.  Warlat works for EVERYONE whether they have it or not.  Once someone in the game has enabled it,  it works for EVERYONE.  So war2combat didnt standardize it's use,  it merely added it so that anyone could enable it.
So, why people in 2007 or 2008 called warlat a hack?
As i understand warlat moves latency proper value only for those who had it activated.
For others it just changes latency to extra high and then back to low...

Because there alot of peoples who still keep to believe warlat is a solo thing.

How much time i join games and i fix latency and someone re fix latency over me like if he was not fix.

People think everyone have to fix ther personal latency, so sometime we join a game and 8 players fix there latency, one after one LoL

They dont realize only one player in the game who fix latency will fix latency for everyone in the game, 20 years…. thats sad….
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 04, 2019, 04:56:04 PM
Even worst, that people who still use those 2.02 version of Warcraft II battle net edition, they join us and think they fix latency but actually warlatency fix dont work with those clients..

So they think they have fix latency but nobody in the game cant be fix by there fault and we cant ressource management…

Someting we should take care way much more then chop bars.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 04, 2019, 05:12:28 PM
Warlat is a little bit complicated.

1- There two different warlatency fix software, an old one for Warcraft II battle net edition, and the one we are using for war2ru combat. The old one dosent work with war2ru combat client, and the one we are using dont work with Warcraft II battle edition client under 2.02.

2- So if someone join a games on our war2ru combat server with an old client of Warcraft II battle net edition, it will broke our latency even if we use the good warlatency fix.. Because our latency fix cant fix old Warcraft II battle net editition client, so actually most of our games we are doing or not even fix for the most of time because there alot of peoples whos still use those corrupted client.

3- if 8 players are using the goood war2ru combat client in the same game, then our warlatency fix will really fix the latency because everyone are ready to be fix since they all have the right client.. If 7 use the right client and only 1 use a Warcraft II battle net edition then nobody is fix because your warlatency fix cant fix that guy, and since we are all on the same latency, nobody is fix.

I hope you guys understand better how it really work.

ps: thats why i said since many years we have to close those corrupted Warcraft II battle edition client of our server, because first they corrupt latency, second they make crashing our games, third we also gonna get rid of a good tool for hackers.

No reason to keep those clients on our server, we got different original version of war2ru combat in every language now.

Those clients was still tolerate because peooples where using them for different language, but now we dont need those client anymores at all, it just bring us problèmes.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: iL on September 04, 2019, 05:37:28 PM
1- There two different warlatency fix software, an old one for Warcraft II battle net edition, and the one we are using for war2ru combat. The old one dosent work with war2ru combat client, and the one we are using dont work with Warcraft II battle edition client under 2.02.
hm, do you mean 2020 and 2021? So, "old" is 2021?
I don't know any other versions except 2020, 2021 and 200 (that is not allow to select the bnet server and so i have no idea how to join some custom server).

Also, loader for combat 4.4 (and also combat 4.5 with gog option selected) have an function to switch warlat on. For 2021 version. Works fine.

So now there's no problems between 2020 and 2021 functionality of warlat.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 04, 2019, 05:44:56 PM
Actually it's really hard to explain, let me explain you better.

Actually it's not client 2.02, it's patch 2.02 and above that, 1.5, 1.4, 1.3 etc etc.

So here the deal,  peoples cant install those patch on our war2ru combat client but they can install it on those old Warcraft II battle net client.

By using those old rigged patch they can hack the game easier on our own server since you are allowing those clients to play with us.

It's also mean we have more chance to get alot of games crash and they also corrupt our war2latency fix.

Here an exemple of those patch i talk you about.

https://warcraft2.judgehype.com/article/patchs-de-warcraft-ii/

Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: iL on September 04, 2019, 05:52:22 PM
Actually it's not client 2.02, it's patch 2.02 and above that, 1.5, 1.4, 1.3 etc etc.
Hm, your link shows "Patch 2.02" only for battle.net edition. And patches "Patch 1.5", 1.4, etc are related to "Tides of Darkness & Beyond the Dark Portal", so DOS versions as i understand...
Never heared about 1.x patches for BNE. I always thought 2.00 was the 1st BNE version. Not sure about 2.01 patch exists anywhere, i know about 2.020 and 2.021 patches only.
Appreciate if one can find different patches for BNE version...
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 04, 2019, 06:00:01 PM
Actually it's not client 2.02, it's patch 2.02 and above that, 1.5, 1.4, 1.3 etc etc.
Hm, your link shows "Patch 2.02" only for battle.net edition. And patches "Patch 1.5", 1.4, etc are related to "Tides of Darkness & Beyond the Dark Portal", so DOS versions as i understand...
Never heared about 1.x patches for BNE. I always thought 2.00 was the 1st BNE version. Not sure about 2.01 patch exists anywhere, i know about 2.020 and 2.021 patches only.
Appreciate if one can find different patches for BNE version...

Actually i dont know about 1.5, 1.4, 1.3, look like your right and its not bt net, but the major probleme is still 2.02

Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: iL on September 04, 2019, 06:05:17 PM
Actually i dont know about 1.5, 1.4, 1.3, look like your right and its not bt net, but the major probleme is still 2.02
The major problem is GOG uses 2021 and they dont want 2020.

You can say GOG is nothing, but i had an experience when i uploaded combat of the torrent tracker and they didn't want to approve build of war2 with "some unknown .ru server". GOG support helped very much.
Another world knows about shitty GOG as the best server ever and they knows nothing about .ru...
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 04, 2019, 06:08:28 PM
Actually i dont know about 1.5, 1.4, 1.3, look like your right and its not bt net, but the major probleme is still 2.02
The major problem is GOG uses 2021 and they dont want 2020.

You can say GOG is nothing, but i had an experience when i uploaded combat of the torrent tracker and they didn't want to approve build of war2 with "some unknown .ru server". GOG support helped very much.
Another world knows about shitty GOG as the best server ever and they knows nothing about .ru...

The only thing i know and without offended you is… I told you for many years to change your name for a worldwide one, i always told you RU was not a good thing for our server and you have never listen me.

Look like i was right again!

Btw we dont need gog at all, believe me.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Incos on September 04, 2019, 06:09:56 PM
Isn’t a hack when one player utilizes something that nobody else has? Or say IL takes down this new combat version but some already have it... that would be a hack.  However, if everyone has access it’s simply a mod no longer a hack.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: {Lance} on September 04, 2019, 06:21:03 PM
If everyone has it,  it could be considered a mod but that doesnt mean it IS a mod.  For example,  if you added the maphack to the install profile and everyone has it,  is it then still "just a mod"?  Or would you still consider it a hack.  A hack has a VERY clear definition:

Hack:  A tool that when given to one player and not another,  provides the player using the tool an unfair advantage.

Both the black to pink AND chop meters fall under this category.  However,  I think b2p isnt as problematic because it doesnt affect the war2 economy like a chop counter would do.  The chop counter would directly impact the wood production of one player where as the other player wouldnt have that same advantage.  The B2P hack however doesnt do that.  It's just a visual thing.  Some people can see black better than others on their monitor.  Therefore a LOT of people (self NOT included) considered this a BUG that needed to be "patched".  I still consider it a hack not because it gave anyone an unfair advantage,  but because it removed an entire part of war2 that I always enjoyed,  and that was being sneaky and towering people right under their noses.  Sometimes it worked,  sometimes it didnt.  But either way it was a part of the game of war2 and it was fun as all hell.  But since b2p came out,  that part of my game has been completely destroyed and will NEVER return.  The same could be true for wood micro if this retard counter thing hits the main stream.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 04, 2019, 06:25:02 PM
If everyone has it,  it could be considered a mod but that doesnt mean it IS a mod.  For example,  if you added the maphack to the install profile and everyone has it,  is it then still "just a mod"?  Or would you still consider it a hack.  A hack has a VERY clear definition:

Hack:  A tool that when given to one player and not another,  provides the player using the tool an unfair advantage.

Both the black to pink AND chop meters fall under this category.  However,  I think b2p isnt as problematic because it doesnt affect the war2 economy like a chop counter would do.  The chop counter would directly impact the wood production of one player where as the other player wouldnt have that same advantage.  The B2P hack however doesnt do that.  It's just a visual thing.  Some people can see black better than others on their monitor.  Therefore a LOT of people (self NOT included) considered this a BUG that needed to be "patched".  I still consider it a hack not because it gave anyone an unfair advantage,  but because it removed an entire part of war2 that I always enjoyed,  and that was being sneaky and towering people right under their noses.  Sometimes it worked,  sometimes it didnt.  But either way it was a part of the game of war2 and it was fun as all hell.  But since b2p came out,  that part of my game has been completely destroyed and will NEVER return.  The same could be true for wood micro if this retard counter thing hits the main stream.

Dude if map hack his add to the original version is not a hack anymore cuz everyone will have it, so it's not an advantage for nobody since everyone got it.. What do you dont understand of that part…

Fucking read bro!

Hack:  A tool that when given to one player and not another,  provides the player using the tool an unfair advantage.

A tool can be a software or even an hardware, that give advantage to one player and not the other, using the tool an unfair advantage, NOTHING is unfair we everyone got it!!

Comprendez!

Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: {Lance} on September 04, 2019, 06:29:30 PM
So let me get this straight,  you wouldnt have a problem with adding a maphack to war2?  You would consider it a "cool update"?  In order to ADD something to war2combat,  it must first be determined if it's a HACK or not BEFORE it comes in.  If it is a hack,  then it should absolutely NEVER be added.  Ever.  Because it would ruin the game.  A prime example of how war2 was ruined (by blizzard themselves) was when they "fixed" the lumber bug.  An example of how War2combat ruined war2 was when they made the black to pink hack a main stream thing.  To AVOID these things in the future,  then we need to vet whatever goes into the install profile and simply not allow anything that is considered a "hack" BEFORE it was added.  Not after.  If you only look at it AFTER,  then it's already to late.  You've ruined the game.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 04, 2019, 06:33:02 PM
Both the black to pink AND chop meters fall under this category.  However,  I think b2p isnt as problematic because it doesnt affect the war2 economy like a chop counter would do.  The chop counter would directly impact the wood production of one player where as the other player wouldnt have that same advantage.  The B2P hack however doesnt do that.  It's just a visual thing.  Some people can see black better than others on their monitor.  Therefore a LOT of people (self NOT included) considered this a BUG that needed to be "patched".  I still consider it a hack not because it gave anyone an unfair advantage,  but because it removed an entire part of war2 that I always enjoyed,  and that was being sneaky and towering people right under their noses.  Sometimes it worked,  sometimes it didnt.  But either way it was a part of the game of war2 and it was fun as all hell.  But since b2p came out,  that part of my game has been completely destroyed and will NEVER return.  The same could be true for wood micro if this retard counter thing hits the main stream.

Actually you said in other post, i miss that time where i can make surprise attack as black player and rape eveything because player cant notice im there…

You see, that clearly an hack!!! And thats why black to pink it not an hack but it have been created to get rid of that hacks…

You see being black and make surprise attack because because peoples cant see you is not fun, its a fucking damn advantage you took on 7 other peoples who will be visible as fuck with there bright color since black is the only color to give advantage…

You see how the fuck you make no sens, you there giving props to black hack but you are there spitting on the black to pink fix.

You have absolutly no idea of what you are talking, your just there spitting your god damn none sens.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: iL on September 04, 2019, 06:33:41 PM
The only thing i know and without offended you is… I told you for many years to change your name for a worldwide one, i always told you RU was not a good thing for our server and you have never listen me.
Btw that was a russian torrent tracker...
And that wasn't about .ru, that was about unofficial server. GOG is official, war2.ru is not. Quite enough to not care or war2.ru and care of GOG.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: {Lance} on September 04, 2019, 06:34:56 PM
You forgot one thing.  The color black is built into the game and it doesnt give you the same color in EVERY game.  It's completely random.  Not forgetting that your opponent is black and that you need to PAY ATTENTION,  is a skill.  One which died well before you were in War2 so I dont expect you to understand it much,  as did the lumber bug skills.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 04, 2019, 06:36:59 PM
So let me get this straight,  you wouldnt have a problem with adding a maphack to war2?  You would consider it a "cool update"?  In order to ADD something to war2combat,  it must first be determined if it's a HACK or BEFORE it comes in.  If it is a hack,  then it should absolutely NEVER be added.  Ever.  Because it would ruin the game.  A prime example of how war2 was ruined (by blizzard themselves) was when they "fixed" the lumber bug.  An example of how War2combat ruined war2 was when they made the black to pink hack a main stream thing.  To AVOID these things in the future,  then we need to vet whatever goes into the install profile and simply not allow anything that is considered a "hack" BEFORE it was added.  Not after.  If you only look at it AFTER,  then it's already to late.  You've ruined the game.

I will have a probleme whit adding map hack to the game because it's not fun anymore, the fog bring us that funny part where we have to scout and make strategie from there.. So no i will not want to add it to the game, but it dont change the fact that if we add it its not a hack anymore. Because everyone will have it and it will bring no advantage to nobody… That dont mean because everyone use map hack and you suck with it it's a hack, that just mean you suck.

Period!

Same thing with chop bar, thats dont mean because you scare of being beat by a newb who use chop bar it's an hack, thats just mean you suck.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on September 04, 2019, 06:38:34 PM
Yeah, you can’t just go adding hacks, things that offer distinct advantages, and say “anyone can use it.” People who don’t use those things will be disadvantaged and have a hard time competing. It only makes sense if it’s a setting that can be set to on or off by the game host that is then given to everyone.

Black2pink is the best comparison to the chop meter but I still see it more as a debug, like tk said, than any sort of game mechanic addition or enhancement, like the chop meter. It does give the user some advantage but that’s why we rolled it out for everyone with Combat.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: {Lance} on September 04, 2019, 06:40:43 PM
So how do you STOP the maphack from becoming a part of the Install profile of war2combat.  Do you label it as a HACK or do you label it as an UPDATE.  The point here is that it's not to late to REMOVE the chop meter.  Not enough people have it yet.  So there is still time to remove it because IT IS A HACK and it WILL ruin a very integral part of the game.  Just like fixing the lumber bug and black to pink patch did.  I would rather NOT repeat those mistakes of the past.  There are plenty of other things we can do to improve war2 than adding hacks under the guise of "its just an update".

I dont know if Lambhax slipped that in without iL realizing it or not but whatever the case,  the SAFE thing to do is to remove it first,  then debate about it, and THEN add it if its clear that the majority thinks its cool (like what happened with the black to pink patch).  A crap ton of debate went into adding it.  And that wasnt even a game changing hack like the chop meter is,  it was just a freaking visual fix.  I have learned to live with b2p but I still wish it didnt exist.  It ruined a whole part of my enjoyment of war2 forever.  So did fixing the lumber bug.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 04, 2019, 06:48:52 PM
You forgot one thing.  The color black is built into the game and it doesnt give you the same color in EVERY game.  It's completely random.  Not forgetting that your opponent is black and that you need to PAY ATTENTION,  is a skill.  One which died well before you were in War2 so I dont expect you to understand it much.

We dont cares if it's build in the game, it dont mean because satan have been created with the world i have to like him and respect him.

This is not because something is random that mean it's fair… Black color it's totally rigged and there nothing fair to play against black, we dont cares about the random part, it just not fair.

If the original Warcraft 2 is what that miss you then go back there where nobody play anymore, same for fucking gog, war2ru have save Warcraft II by being what we are today, by doing our own updates, our own version, our own ladder.

We are not Warcraft II, we are war2ru combat, do you understand that?



Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 04, 2019, 06:53:36 PM
Yeah, you can’t just go adding hacks, things that offer distinct advantages, and say “anyone can use it.” People who don’t use those things will be disadvantaged and have a hard time competing. It only makes sense if it’s a setting that can be set to on or off by the game host that is then given to everyone.

Black2pink is the best comparison to the chop meter but I still see it more as a debug, like tk said, than any sort of game mechanic addition or enhancement, like the chop meter. It does give the user some advantage but that’s why we rolled it out for everyone with Combat.

Do you really fucking told me if you see swift and sg doing 1v1 and they have both that chop bar, one of them will really use it??

Men your so delusional, actually any skill rated pro player who will start to use this thing gonna start to suck hard!!!

We have no time to check that kind of stuff, we know it by instinc and we dont cares at all if bobococo using it against us!

Only newbe cry about it and they are all beatead fort to hall against pro players, every pro players know this things is useless in competitive match and only newbee will enjoy of it, stop fucking kidding me bro.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: iL on September 04, 2019, 06:55:29 PM
I dont know if Lambhax slipped that in without iL realizing it or not but whatever the case,  the SAFE thing to do is to remove it first,  then debate about it, and THEN add it if its clear that the majority thinks its cool (like what happened with the black to pink patch).  A crap ton of debate went into adding it.  And that wasnt even a game changing hack like the chop meter is,  it was just a freaking visual fix.  I have learned to live with b2p but I still wish it didnt exist.  It ruined a whole part of my enjoyment of war2 forever.  So did fixing the lumber bug.
I'd say the safe thing was to debate about it before Lambchops released it. Since he released it months ago, some people began to use that and others didn't

Adding that into combat was one of ways to find balance between those who know about it and those who don't know.
Another possible way was to call chop bars a hack, deny it and add these chop bars to antihack to let people know if someone uses it.

Also not a problem to follow that way in a week or a month later: to release new combat, new antihack and deny combat with enabled chop bars to join.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 04, 2019, 06:58:48 PM
So how do you STOP the maphack from becoming a part of the Install profile of war2combat.  Do you label it as a HACK or do you label it as an UPDATE.  The point here is that it's not to late to REMOVE the chop meter.  Not enough people have it yet.  So there is still time to remove it because IT IS A HACK and it WILL ruin a very integral part of the game.  Just like fixing the lumber bug and black to pink patch did.  I would rather NOT repeat those mistakes of the past.  There are plenty of other things we can do to improve war2 than adding hacks under the guise of "its just an update".

I dont know if Lambhax slipped that in without iL realizing it or not but whatever the case,  the SAFE thing to do is to remove it first,  then debate about it, and THEN add it if its clear that the majority thinks its cool (like what happened with the black to pink patch).  A crap ton of debate went into adding it.  And that wasnt even a game changing hack like the chop meter is,  it was just a freaking visual fix.  I have learned to live with b2p but I still wish it didnt exist.  It ruined a whole part of my enjoyment of war2 forever.  So did fixing the lumber bug.

Putting your knowledge of this game above a bar chop is a fucking shame, your a total newbe bro lol
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: {Lance} on September 04, 2019, 07:04:17 PM
Also not a problem to follow that way in a week or a month later: to release new combat, new antihack and deny combat with enabled chop bars to join.

If there is a RELIABLE way to prevent people using things like this,  then adding it to the list of detected hacks and removing it from the current install profile is the right thing to do.  Just because Lambhax released it before it went into combat IS NOT a good reason to add it.  Using the same logic,  we could add the maphack too.  But we dont.  We instead add it to a list of hacks and say if you are caught with XYZ,  you are reprimanded with ABC.  If you have to lock the server to only the war2combat client, I dont think anyone would complain if the end result is that they can be assured that no one is using the known hacks.  It would make stopping these types of hacks MUCH easier. 

Lambhax has done some decent things,  but the chop meter isnt one of them.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 04, 2019, 07:09:30 PM
Also not a problem to follow that way in a week or a month later: to release new combat, new antihack and deny combat with enabled chop bars to join.

If there is a RELIABLE way to prevent people using things like this,  then adding it to the list of detected hacks and removing it from the current install profile is the right thing to do.  Just because Lambhax released it before it went into combat IS NOT a good reason to add it.  Using the same logic,  we could add the maphack too.  But we dont.  We instead add it to a list of hacks and say if you are caught with XYZ,  you are reprimanded with ABC.  If you have to lock the server to only the war2combat client, I dont think anyone would complain if the end result is that they can be assured that no one is using the known hacks.  It would make stopping these types of hacks MUCH easier. 

Lambhax has done some decent things,  but the chop meter isnt one of them.

Fuck that no, there a pool, let this pool going, community will choose it, not a random bunch of newbes who cant stand the new competition, you maybe have a low brain and scare of a bar chop, but if its really something important i would love to adapt to it, im a man of challenge, not a robot on my eternal pattern, not my fault if you cant adapt to anything.

Let that pool goes.

Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: jordan4385 on September 04, 2019, 07:43:04 PM
Men your so delusional, actually any skill rated pro player who will start to use this thing gonna start to suck hard!!!

Loool nox come on man... let me spell this one out for you

IF YOU NEED TO PULL CHOPPERS, PULL CHOPPERS THAT HAVE THE LOWEST CHOP METER, AS TO INCREASE YOUR WOOD.

Your resource control is shit nox.  anyone above a B+ level is watching choppers to see when they can pull them into gold after they finish bringing in the wood.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Incos on September 04, 2019, 08:02:40 PM
This is s great resource for any new player. This will make newbies better.  With many years of high level play behind me, I can say that this won’t make a difference for us pros
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 04, 2019, 08:08:14 PM
Men your so delusional, actually any skill rated pro player who will start to use this thing gonna start to suck hard!!!

Loool nox come on man... let me spell this one out for you

IF YOU NEED TO PULL CHOPPERS, PULL CHOPPERS THAT HAVE THE LOWEST CHOP METER, AS TO INCREASE YOUR WOOD.

Your resource control is shit nox.  anyone above a B+ level is watching choppers to see when they can pull them into gold after they finish bringing in the wood.

Yeah sure bro, told me that when you beat sg with 2 hasted dragons.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Available on September 05, 2019, 07:59:57 AM
What a storm in a teacup.

I thought almost same ("what a *hack") until i tested it.

In the form as it is implemented for now, they do not give a big advantage, but much more newbie-friendly:
it works with a decent delay,
an experienced player will still make things faster.

I'm agree with Cel, good thing is to know who use mod.



What is really impermissible is to add HP-bars.
------>
Save your strength to fight against HP-bars, which can REALLY ruin the game.

Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on September 05, 2019, 11:08:07 AM
The people have spoken and it's a hack!  Boom!

The only thing polling even close is complete nihilism of "nothing is a hack," lol.

I legitimately do think it's kind of neat and can see a place for it in a "War2 Remastered" like I mentioned before.  The "Remastered" setting could include health bars, unit queues, the whole shebang, maybe could be a game host setting.

But I just think including it with this version of Combat and forcing unwilling people to use it or play against it is a bad idea.  I hope we can remove it from the installer.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: {Lance} on September 05, 2019, 01:03:37 PM
I'm kind of dumbfounded that people would think nothing is a hack heh.  I dont understand that type of logic.  Like,  why would a maphack not be considered a hack?  Why would unlimited levels not be a hack?  The way I see it,  if you selected that option,  you're actually FOR adding a maphack to the realm of possibilities because when you say nothing is a hack,  then literally the sky is the limit.  That would never fly,  why would someone want to chose that as an option?  I saw iL was the first person to select it and I was floored.  I was like waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?  iL is FOR hacks?

The one thing I DONT want to see is for war2 to turn into a Total Conversion and then war2 ceases to exist.  If a TC is your goal,  then you should be looking at Wargus,  not War2 lol.  With Wargus you wouldnt need to nigger rig everything.  You could literally code it natively because the source code for Wargus is completely public.  It already has health bars, chop counters, new units, new races, new tilesets, new sounds,  HUGE resolutions (only limited by your GPU and Monitor),  Queueing,  Rally points, unlimited unit selections, hotkeys, and all the "modern goodies"..... BUT.  It's not war2.  It's Wargus.  Similar to and based off War2, but it is NOT war2.  And it's not just a single player game either.  You can play wargus multiplayer on Metaservers,  the server for stratugus engine games.  They have a whole following thats completely separate from our War2 community although its FAR smaller.  There might even be a few Wargus players among us,  but I suspect not.  Would be interesting to find out though.  They could probably tell us what I already know.  War2 and Wargus are NOT the same thing.  But with SOME of these (not all, some of your shit is good Lambhax) modifications that Lambhax is making,  I see him trying to push War2 to become another Wargus.

Do not attempt to turn war2 into another stratagus/wargus project.  Thats an asinine idea.  Why re-invent the wheel?  If the sky is the limit,  then the project for you is Wargus.  You dont need to re-invent everything that they've already done.  Notice in the video below that it has chop counters and a CRAP ton of other modern modifications.  I do NOT want to play war2 like this.  This turns it into something more like SC2 than War2.

For those that dont know what wargus is,  you can see it in action here: Warcraft 2 Wargus 4v4 naval warfare - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fueWIMsZNE#) and the install is here video here: Latest Stratagus and Wargus Installation instructional Video - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnY13i105LE#)  But I know that iL and most everyone here should already know what it is.  It's been around for years.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 05, 2019, 01:39:56 PM
Every time someone try to do something for this game, there always a bunch of haters who try to destroy him and his work.

A bunch of newbe who cant even beat SPB, and a bunch of hacker who dont use AH and customize there hotkeys with the MPQ.

This community is totally toxic and will die toxic,

Im done with this game, good luck to all, have fun.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: {Lance} on September 05, 2019, 01:46:26 PM
Eq if you REALLY want war2 to look like the below image where they have a philosophy of NOTHING is a hack,  then by all means,  go join the Wargus community.  It has EVERYTHING that Lambhax is trying to implement and it's ALL NATIVE and already works GREAT.

(https://image.prntscr.com/image/puXWkjc-SiyWExdWc5RANA.png)

And look at all the "cool stuff" they can do with it!  New units, new buildings, new spells, new everything!..... phhh they can keep it as far as I care,  but it sounds like what EQ wants.
WarCraft2 MIRACLE Wargus 1600 DANILIN allconsuming worlds всепоглощающие миры - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRtda6PmLhc#) 

And hell, why stop there!  You could also do this!
Storm, Earth and Fire - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3qwcxLIzvM#)

Maybe you can ask iL WTF this guy is babbling about,  maybe he's explaining why they allow hacks!
ЛЕГЕНДАРНАЯ СТРАТЕГИЯ ВОЗВРАЩАЕТСЯ! - WarCraft 2 Remastered - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdwQvHHKydY#)
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: easycompany on September 05, 2019, 02:23:12 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/m5D4T4b/war2wyrmsun1.jpg)

wyrmsun is better than wargus..it has clouds
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Incos on September 05, 2019, 03:44:43 PM
Yay, wyrmsun.

Equinox has a good point, the community here is sometimes toxic.  I honestly feel the lumber bar will help new players learn timing and resource management better and maybe close the skill gap.  I don’t particularly see it as a problem as most, but, I’m a modder who appreciates game improvement.  One thing I know is that anyone can modify the mpq files, the key change is not a hack.  In fact you can learn step by step on how to do it in the mod section. 

I’m pretty sure everyone wants to keep the game the same. Hence why I got a lot of pushback even on balancing humans (people stated orcs are not op, yet they always pick them).  RU doesn’t like change or evolution. It’s just the way of
The lands.

Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: {Lance} on September 05, 2019, 03:48:43 PM
Like I've said,  if you want to embrace change, an outlet for that already exists that has ALL of these changes and more over at the Wargus camp.  War2 isnt about change.  It's about keeping a great game,  great.  Not modifying it beyond recognition.  Modifications are great,  but they have a place and this isnt it.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Szwagier on September 05, 2019, 04:00:08 PM
Yay, wyrmsun.

Equinox has a good point, the community here is sometimes toxic.  I honestly feel the lumber bar will help new players learn timing and resource management better and maybe close the skill gap.  I don’t particularly see it as a problem as most, but, I’m a modder who appreciates game improvement.  One thing I know is that anyone can modify the mpq files, the key change is not a hack.  In fact you can learn step by step on how to do it in the mod section. 

I’m pretty sure everyone wants to keep the game the same. Hence why I got a lot of pushback even on balancing humans (people stated orcs are not op, yet they always pick them).  RU doesn’t like change or evolution. It’s just the way of
The lands.





You cant balance human and orc, even if you make auto-heal (stupid idea 6mana = 1 hp + one hit by ogre(lvl 7 ~~24hp) instead of hit ogre), even if you will make 1 mana = 1hp, knights will only heal and watch how they die by ogres

slow still is not enough to kill 9 ogres by 9 knights, better is polymorph, but it will be op if you change mana to 100 per one polymorph
people want play orcs, why do you want them to choose human?

You cant change BL cost from 50 mana to 100 mana, cause game will be slower, people will camp more,  new ogres will be usless to defense against ogres with lust




If you are modder, why dont you help us(me) i modding MPQ? I asked many question how to change for example mission objective, adding new ai? (there are only 53 if i remember), how to change ai place for buldings, why ai sometimes stuck?
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: iL on September 05, 2019, 04:13:05 PM
Well, @{Lance}, @Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) , @jordan4385 , what are your ideas about that chop bars plugin:
1. to remove it from combat.
That will not allow mass usage.
At the same time some players already can use it since May 2019, what to do with them?

2. to call it a hack?
Or to make another debate thread, continue talking about that with others, and after that to call it a hack?

3. to update antihack and add it to the list of known hacks.
To enforce that antihack to be mandatory. And ban everybody who keeps using these chop bars.

4. to just forgot about chop bars and never use it.
Is that an idea you think we should enforce now?
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: iL on September 05, 2019, 04:19:11 PM
I legitimately do think it's kind of neat and can see a place for it in a "War2 Remastered" like I mentioned before.  The "Remastered" setting could include health bars, unit queues, the whole shebang, maybe could be a game host setting.
So, what is your idea about that "Remastered" then? We should make another version incompatible with current one to play, then implement some plugins like this and allow playing only Remastered with Remastered and original with original?
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 05, 2019, 04:38:21 PM
Yay, wyrmsun.

Equinox has a good point, the community here is sometimes toxic.  I honestly feel the lumber bar will help new players learn timing and resource management better and maybe close the skill gap.  I don’t particularly see it as a problem as most, but, I’m a modder who appreciates game improvement.  One thing I know is that anyone can modify the mpq files, the key change is not a hack.  In fact you can learn step by step on how to do it in the mod section. 

I’m pretty sure everyone wants to keep the game the same. Hence why I got a lot of pushback even on balancing humans (people stated orcs are not op, yet they always pick them).  RU doesn’t like change or evolution. It’s just the way of
The lands.


It's more then just toxic, it's a real fucking joke, this game is lead by a bunch of fuck head who are mad because they have never achieve ther goal while some newbe like lambchop does it!

Look at Lance and jordan, old programmars whos cant even beat spb trying to convict us that chop bar is something wrong for the game, dudes have played this game for 20 years and still cant even beat spb once in a series of 10! How the fuck someone who dont even know how to play this game try to tell us how to play it??? The best thing those 2 guys should do hes actually using that damn chop bar and try to get better, because they both fucking suck especially lance.

After you got does peoples who dint even play this game anymore but still try to affect the result of a pool, look at winchester and blid, does guys dont even play anymore and still gonna have an impact on how we want to play this game.

After you got those guys like u8 who try to convict us that chop bar is hacking when the dude dont want to use AH at all and while he customize is hotkeys in the mpq like a fucking secret geek. Dude have the behavior of a fucking loser for this game, he suppose to be one of the best of this server and he should show exemple for every new commer in this game… But he dont fucking cares and do whatever he want, what exemple hes showing to all those peoples, do the fuck you want we dont cares at all, thats the exemple he show!

Lambchop did talk about his plug in since long time ago, when he did it 1 month ago everyone was like we will accept it if iL put it in the original version of the game and everyone have acces to it, lambchop was fucking sad and we dint see him for 2 weeks, and when iL decide to did it those guys are like no it's a hack you have to remove it.

Does guys are hypocrite and iL have never been that man who can wear those pants.

This server is a real fucking jungle were law dont exist, a jungle where mad old mens try to trolls others because they have nothing else to do in ther pathetic life.

This server need administration, moderations, programmation and love!

But those old fuck head just destroy everyone since 20 years and cockblock everything cuz they are stock in ther eternal pattern, they cant adapt to anything, they understand absolutly anything, if i was lambchop and did all this work for absolutly no reason because those cock blocker troll me i will never work again on this server.

Thats how we lose everyone, thats how we lose all the best, moustopher, tora, burnt and probably lambchop and warbux pretty soon.

Thats also why we lose players constantly.

The peoples who control this server are the people who did the less for it, blid, tk, foonat, dugs. Those guys still have impact on the decision but did absolutly nothing then wear a admin tag or even worst not playing at all.

This server need a big clean up in this administration cuz they are killing this game since long time ago whit ther bad decision.

Base there decision on the fact they dont want to lose old players, but those old players are trash and toxic for the community.

I prefere to lose 10 of those trash and gain 200 new players over the year.

200 new players who will be better then all of them in not even a year!!!

This fucking chop bar is one of the best plug in we never had in 20 years in the game itself.

Actually this version is one of the best in the last 20 years, thats the first time we have real improvement of the game and all those fuck head are already there trying to put those work and effort in trash.

There not a fucking pro who will cares about that damn chop bar, NOT ONE!!! I swear to you, only fucking newb got a word to say, but the truth is, they fucking suck and they dont have the shoes to tell us what to do with this game.

They cant even make the difference with a hack and an updates.

They are just mad because they suck even vs newbes and that chop bar will make newbes get better faster and they probably gonna lose against newbe in six month.

But for pro player it's something we dont cares at all, we dont need a fucking chop bar, we have played that game for 20 years and we know how to fucking chops and does our ressource management.

Telling me or telling to any pro players that chop bar will make a difference is a fucking insult and shame for us.

I will not accept of being scare of a chop bar, cuz i dont fucking suck AT THIS POINT LIKE THEM!

I dont cry for the chop bar, i dont cares at all of this chop bar, i cry because it's always been the same, they are cock blocking improvement of this game and make everyone fear!

This chop bar is perfect, its not big, it's look good and it will change nothing for pro players, the only thing it will change, its helping new players to get better faster.

I was so happy to see iL finnally did something big for this game, to bring us fresh air, but i was fucking wrong again, nobody in this shitty staff can wear pants and do what this game need to bring new peoples.

Im done with this fucking game, keep that 80 members toxic community, but now you will be 79, fuck all of them.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on September 05, 2019, 04:41:57 PM
I legitimately do think it's kind of neat and can see a place for it in a "War2 Remastered" like I mentioned before.  The "Remastered" setting could include health bars, unit queues, the whole shebang, maybe could be a game host setting.
So, what is your idea about that "Remastered" then? We should make another version incompatible with current one to play, then implement some plugins like this and allow playing only Remastered with Remastered and original with original?
If it could be one version and a game host option to turn on or off the "remaster" when they host a game, that would be something pretty cool!  I am just saying that for those who like this feature, or think making these additions is a fun hobby.  I am not dying to have it myself and prefer classic play.  If "Remaster" and standard were incompatible, it would be harmful to the community.

Well, @{Lance}, @Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) , @jordan4385 , what are your ideas about that chop bars plugin:
1. to remove it from combat.
That will not allow mass usage.
At the same time some players already can use it since May 2019, what to do with them?

2. to call it a hack?
Or to make another debate thread, continue talking about that with others, and after that to call it a hack?

3. to update antihack and add it to the list of known hacks.
To enforce that antihack to be mandatory. And ban everybody who keeps using these chop bars.

4. to just forgot about chop bars and never use it.
Is that an idea you think we should enforce now?
I think we should do 1 and 4.

2 and 3 -- as a smaller hack I don't know how much effort is worth it.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 05, 2019, 04:55:02 PM
I legitimately do think it's kind of neat and can see a place for it in a "War2 Remastered" like I mentioned before.  The "Remastered" setting could include health bars, unit queues, the whole shebang, maybe could be a game host setting.
So, what is your idea about that "Remastered" then? We should make another version incompatible with current one to play, then implement some plugins like this and allow playing only Remastered with Remastered and original with original?
If it could be one version and a game host option to turn on or off the "remaster" when they host a game, that would be something pretty cool!  I am just saying that for those who like this feature, or think making these additions is a fun hobby.  I am not dying to have it myself and prefer classic play.  If "Remaster" and standard were incompatible, it would be harmful to the community.

Well, @{Lance}, @Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) , @jordan4385 , what are your ideas about that chop bars plugin:
1. to remove it from combat.
That will not allow mass usage.
At the same time some players already can use it since May 2019, what to do with them?

2. to call it a hack?
Or to make another debate thread, continue talking about that with others, and after that to call it a hack?

3. to update antihack and add it to the list of known hacks.
To enforce that antihack to be mandatory. And ban everybody who keeps using these chop bars.

4. to just forgot about chop bars and never use it.
Is that an idea you think we should enforce now?
I think we should do 1 and 4.

2 and 3 -- as a smaller hack I don't know how much effort is worth it.

ARE YOU FUCKING RETARD? I mean, dont we have enouph versions at the moment, why do you fucking make our staff work for absolute no reason? You fucking need more??? We dont have enouph shitty version already? And what are you doing for this game except paying 8 dollars month for the server?? Why dont you make that fucking version yourself, i mean your a trash bro,  How much do you want iL, ill pay you 2 years for the server right FUCKING NOW!

Your a trash dude, your an old fucker who cant adapt to the new generation, every fucking game in the world make update like that on ther original game, they dont fucking make new version of the game every fucking week, thats not how it work, they make update every fucking months, they add new things, they remove other ones, and everyone have to download those fucking update if they want to play, there not 20 different versions for no reason, they have 1 game, 1 version, lots of updates and millions of player.

Thats why they invented two word, BUFF AND NERFS… If something is too bad, they buff it, if something is too good, they nerfs it, but they are not scare of adaption and thats what peoples like.

Do you have ever think about the fact we cant get more then 200 players for the last 15 years while other games have MILLIONS of player? Do you really think the game is the probleme? Or maybe YOU are the probleme!

If something is too good for the game they will remove it in the next patch, thats how it fucking work, peoples love new shit even if it's bad, they just love the fact we have some updates and some peoples take cares of us.

Make a remastere version, fuck you blid, your an old piece of shit, go play baggamond if you dont already do it, dumb ass.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Incos on September 05, 2019, 05:35:41 PM
Yay, wyrmsun.

Equinox has a good point, the community here is sometimes toxic.  I honestly feel the lumber bar will help new players learn timing and resource management better and maybe close the skill gap.  I don’t particularly see it as a problem as most, but, I’m a modder who appreciates game improvement.  One thing I know is that anyone can modify the mpq files, the key change is not a hack.  In fact you can learn step by step on how to do it in the mod section. 

I’m pretty sure everyone wants to keep the game the same. Hence why I got a lot of pushback even on balancing humans (people stated orcs are not op, yet they always pick them).  RU doesn’t like change or evolution. It’s just the way of
The lands.





You cant balance human and orc, even if you make auto-heal (stupid idea 6mana = 1 hp + one hit by ogre(lvl 7 ~~24hp) instead of hit ogre), even if you will make 1 mana = 1hp, knights will only heal and watch how they die by ogres

slow still is not enough to kill 9 ogres by 9 knights, better is polymorph, but it will be op if you change mana to 100 per one polymorph
people want play orcs, why do you want them to choose human?

You cant change BL cost from 50 mana to 100 mana, cause game will be slower, people will camp more,  new ogres will be usless to defense against ogres with lust




If you are modder, why dont you help us(me) i modding MPQ? I asked many question how to change for example mission objective, adding new ai? (there are only 53 if i remember), how to change ai place for buldings, why ai sometimes stuck?

Lower gryphon cost to 1500 and make ogres undead units.  That will do two things, create air gameplay and allow paladins to actually be a thing.  Auto slow and auto heal are nice in theory... even auto slow could be nice but it wouldn’t work due to previous statements you made.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: jordan4385 on September 05, 2019, 05:57:51 PM
Why gotta be toxic? :( Seems like we are just having a nice discussion with normal insults about how much everyone sucks thrown in there for fun, typical war2 bs.

ggs nox, good to see you again.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: jordan4385 on September 05, 2019, 05:59:56 PM
I just dont like any changes to the game play thats all, If are are gonna have mods like this, we need to be able to enable them on game creation i think.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: {Lance} on September 05, 2019, 06:17:54 PM
Well, @{Lance}, @Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) , @jordan4385 , what are your ideas about that chop bars plugin:
1. to remove it from combat.
That will not allow mass usage.
At the same time some players already can use it since May 2019, what to do with them?

2. to call it a hack?
Or to make another debate thread, continue talking about that with others, and after that to call it a hack?

3. to update antihack and add it to the list of known hacks.
To enforce that antihack to be mandatory. And ban everybody who keeps using these chop bars.

4. to just forgot about chop bars and never use it.
Is that an idea you think we should enforce now?


1.  Yes,  removing it from the installer is obviously a requirement if we truly want to keep War2 what it is,  War2 and not Wargus.  The sooner,  the better.
2.  This is 100% without a doubt, a HACK.  It meets the definition of a hack and therefore there is no choice but to call it what it is.  There is no need to debate it further since we already have concluded that it meets the definition.
3.  The anti-hack does need to be updated to include this hack and any other plugin or modification that is deemed a hack.  The anti-hack will be a never ending but necessary endevour.
4.  If you're able to add it to the anti-hack and the anti-hack is reliable, that should be enough.

So to me the path is clear.  Does this mean that it's a bad modification?  No,  absolutely not and Wargus is THE PERFECT place for these types of modifications and it doesnt require any duct tape and oxygen tanks to do,  it can all be done the correct way.  It's cool that we can do it without using wargus,  but just because it's cool, doesnt mean it should be added to this specific project.  If we do this,  it will change war2 forever and I dont know about you,  but I'd like to preserve war2 for what it was,  what it is, and what it should always be,  War2.  Who cares if people think it's imbalanced or missing modern features.  That is what makes war2,  war2.  It's not supposed to be like everything else.  I dont want to see War2 as I know it,  turned into Wargus and I know I'm not the only one who feels this way,  because if people wanted something like Wargus,  War2 would be dead and everyone would be playing Wargus on Metaservers.  That just isnt reality.

As for how to treat people using it,  I would treat them no differently than if they were using any other hack.  A hack is a hack is a hack.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 05, 2019, 06:27:35 PM
I just dont like any changes to the game play thats all, If are are gonna have mods like this, we need to be able to enable them on game creation i think.

Exactly, you dont like those change! Not because it's a hack! Because you dont like those change!

Because what he does for us had nothing to do whit hacks! Nothing is a hack when it's add to the original game itself and everyone have acces to it.

But the way you guys are talking is like if updates are hacks, and that kind of vision will make fear programmars to keep doing ther stuff.

Thats why patch exist, because we can make constant modification in the game.

Now there another point you guys have to understand, best player of the world are not the one who still play the same damn thing for over 20 years..

Best players of the worlds can also adapt themself to new patchs without any probleme, thats how it work, you guys are just lookin scare… How the fuck you guys are scare of a damn bar chop, if this shit scare you, that mean we will have no updates at all! It took 20 years to add a fucking bar chop to the damn game and you guys are fucking scare..

Are you guys kidding me??? I knew you guys were newbs, but at this point?? Really??
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: {Lance} on September 05, 2019, 06:37:05 PM
When you go out and buy a 1957 Chevy,  do you slap a new body on it to make it look like a Ferrari?  I mean,  wtf,  it's outdated and needs to be updated!  IDK about you, but if I saw someone do that,  I'd have to say that they have an IQ less than that of a rock.   This is exactly what you're trying to do with War2.  You're trying to modernize something THAT DOESNT NEED IT.  Some things in life are better left alone.  War2 is perfect just the way it is,  flaws and all.  The only types of things we should looking to be improving upon are things that dont change the game mechanics themselves.  So that would be things like an antihack that is functional, keeping the game working on all new OS's that come out, always looking for better ways to allow people to host their own games, fixing bugs that the game itself has (although there are none that havent been fixed).  COLORIZING the text was a GREAT modification that I saw in the last update.  Simple,  but it adds a nice touch to the game without changing the way it works.  Making it look cooler is an acceptable modification too as long as those looks are OPTIONAL and not something enabled by default (like new building/unit art, voices, etc).  Those are all ways things can be improved without disturbing the game itself.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 05, 2019, 06:42:54 PM
When you go out and buy a 1957 Chevy,  do you slap a new body on it to make it look like a Ferrari?  I mean,  wtf,  it's outdated and needs to be updated!  IDK about you, but if I saw someone do that,  I'd have to say that they have an IQ less than that of a rock.   This is exactly what you're trying to do with War2.  You're trying to modernize something THAT DOESNT NEED IT.  Some things in life are better left alone.  War2 is perfect just the way it is,  flaws and all.  The only types of things we should looking to be improving upon are things that dont change the game mechanics themselves.  So that would be things like an antihack that is functional, keeping the game working on all new OS's that come out, always looking for better ways to allow people to host their own games, fixing bugs that the game itself has (although there are none that havent been fixed).  COLORIZING the text was a GREAT modification that I saw in the last update.  Simple,  but it adds a nice touch to the game without changing the way it works.  Making it look cooler is an acceptable modification too as long as those looks are OPTIONAL and not something enabled by default (like new building/unit art, voices, etc).  Those are all ways things can be improved without disturbing the game itself.

Your just a big retard with an APM of 200 who cant stand and adapt to any modifications.

Nothing in this bar chop change the mecanic of the game, and even if it will be i will adapt myself to it.

But how you will adapt yourself to it, you have never been able to adapt yourself to the actual game in the last 20 years.

I can understand how fucking newbee you are, trash.

PS: I dont buy any chevy 1957 cuz i live in 2019, go back to your eternal pattern, your IQ is barely higher then AI.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Incos on September 05, 2019, 06:53:58 PM
Equinox unfortunately it’s not just the two talking. 9 players voted it. Not sure if any of those are multiple accounts.  But we are out numbered.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 05, 2019, 07:04:02 PM
Equinox unfortunately it’s not just the two talking. 9 players voted it. Not sure if any of those are multiple accounts.  But we are out numbered.

You are stupid, sorry to tell you, this pool absolutly mean nothing, full of smurfs, full of peoples who dont play at all, full of haters, full of newbs.

The only things i know is…. Warcraft II have been one of the most playing game around 1995-2004

Sadly peoples had enouph of that game, only a couple of nerds who have been stock in this game have keep playing it…

They want to keep that game where people left it… And the result of that vision bring us 20 years later with a community of 80 players.

The only way we can bring our old peoples back and new players is by giving this game what it deserve.

It mean some fresh air!

We have try ther formula, and it have never work, maybe it's time to be more open and try our formula!

I dont cares at all to make 10 geek mad and see them left the game, because at the end we gonna get 500 new players.

If they cockblock that patch, im out for good, i dont cares at all, not gonna lose my entire life for a game stock in the same damn pattern.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Incos on September 05, 2019, 07:22:20 PM
We need to add health bar and mana bar next.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Lone on September 05, 2019, 07:24:23 PM
iL,

Before you deal with plug-ins, you need to enforce people to use only one version of the game which is available in whatever languages. There will be a bigger mess otherwise.
Until you do so, let the chop plugin run and gather feedback.

This thread is just Lance repeating himself, Eq puking nonsense, and Incos asking for undead ogres (aka removing orcs). Lance can at least logically state his point.

Please create separate threads for each point of discussion starting with a yes/no vote. Some examples...:
-Force update (yes/no)
-Ban chop plugin (yes/no)
-Interest in minor balance changes (yes/no) -> if enough people are interested, then brainstorm, then create more decision threads and have a discussion strictly about one topic.
-Demote "ladder abusers" according to xyz rule (yes/no)
-Ban Eq from forums (1week/4ever)

People are not going to read all this mess. Most people don't even care. You need proper feedback, and you need to gather, organize and understand it from as many players as possible. Otherwise simply do NOT allow any changes to the game-play. You are the admin.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 05, 2019, 07:25:21 PM
We need to add health bar and mana bar next.

How you want to do that, they will say it will change the mecanics of our micro..

Because actually those guys think they are doing micro in team fight, lol…..

There like 10 players on the server who really do usefull micro.

The rest try to do it and lose ther fights for that bad micro.

They will actually get better if they had a healt bar, but they already think they are pro, lol
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 05, 2019, 07:27:08 PM
iL,

Before you deal with plug-ins, you need to enforce people to use only one version of the game which is available in whatever languages. There will be a bigger mess otherwise.
Until you do so, let the chop plugin run and gather feedback.

This thread is just Lance repeating himself, Eq puking nonsense, and Incos asking for undead ogres (aka removing orcs). Lance can at least logically state his point.

Please create separate threads for each point of discussion starting with a yes/no vote. Some examples...:
-Force update (yes/no)
-Ban chop plugin (yes/no)
-Interest in minor balance changes (yes/no) -> if enough people are interested, then brainstorm, then create more decision threads and have a discussion strictly about one topic.
-Demote "ladder abusers" according to xyz rule (yes/no)
-Ban Eq from forums (1week/4ever)

People are not going to read all this mess. Most people don't even care. You need proper feedback, and you need to gather, organize and understand it from as many players as possible. Otherwise simply do NOT allow any changes to the game-play. You are the admin.

Keep customize secretly your hotkeys, hater boy.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Lone on September 05, 2019, 07:32:10 PM
iL,

Before you deal with plug-ins, you need to enforce people to use only one version of the game which is available in whatever languages. There will be a bigger mess otherwise.
Until you do so, let the chop plugin run and gather feedback.

This thread is just Lance repeating himself, Eq puking nonsense, and Incos asking for undead ogres (aka removing orcs). Lance can at least logically state his point.

Please create separate threads for each point of discussion starting with a yes/no vote. Some examples...:
-Force update (yes/no)
-Ban chop plugin (yes/no)
-Interest in minor balance changes (yes/no) -> if enough people are interested, then brainstorm, then create more decision threads and have a discussion strictly about one topic.
-Demote "ladder abusers" according to xyz rule (yes/no)
-Ban Eq from forums (1week/4ever)

People are not going to read all this mess. Most people don't even care. You need proper feedback, and you need to gather, organize and understand it from as many players as possible. Otherwise simply do NOT allow any changes to the game-play. You are the admin.

Keep customize secretly your hotkeys, hater boy.
Die in cancer already stupid fuck. Oh and (easily, rustily) raped 6vs5 talker.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 05, 2019, 07:34:35 PM
iL,

Before you deal with plug-ins, you need to enforce people to use only one version of the game which is available in whatever languages. There will be a bigger mess otherwise.
Until you do so, let the chop plugin run and gather feedback.

This thread is just Lance repeating himself, Eq puking nonsense, and Incos asking for undead ogres (aka removing orcs). Lance can at least logically state his point.

Please create separate threads for each point of discussion starting with a yes/no vote. Some examples...:
-Force update (yes/no)
-Ban chop plugin (yes/no)
-Interest in minor balance changes (yes/no) -> if enough people are interested, then brainstorm, then create more decision threads and have a discussion strictly about one topic.
-Demote "ladder abusers" according to xyz rule (yes/no)
-Ban Eq from forums (1week/4ever)

People are not going to read all this mess. Most people don't even care. You need proper feedback, and you need to gather, organize and understand it from as many players as possible. Otherwise simply do NOT allow any changes to the game-play. You are the admin.

Keep customize secretly your hotkeys, hater boy.
Die in cancer already stupid fuck. Oh and (easily, rustily) raped 6vs5 talker.

I dont fucking care, i already beat that cancer, something you will probably never do if you caught it.

Your still an hacker, go fuck yourself newbe.

Oh and Karma gonna take cares of you, believe me on that  :newthumbsup:
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Winchester on September 06, 2019, 12:43:31 AM
You actually have cancer? Sorry to hear.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 06, 2019, 12:50:20 AM
Hodgkins lymphom stage4.

But i almost completly beat it, need 2 more month of chimio and im done with that.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hodgkins-lymphoma/symptoms-causes/syc-20352646 (https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hodgkins-lymphoma/symptoms-causes/syc-20352646)
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Winchester on September 06, 2019, 01:01:01 AM
Yeah, cancers no joke, good luck with the treatment.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Szwagier on September 06, 2019, 03:07:35 AM
Yay, wyrmsun.

Equinox has a good point, the community here is sometimes toxic.  I honestly feel the lumber bar will help new players learn timing and resource management better and maybe close the skill gap.  I don’t particularly see it as a problem as most, but, I’m a modder who appreciates game improvement.  One thing I know is that anyone can modify the mpq files, the key change is not a hack.  In fact you can learn step by step on how to do it in the mod section. 

I’m pretty sure everyone wants to keep the game the same. Hence why I got a lot of pushback even on balancing humans (people stated orcs are not op, yet they always pick them).  RU doesn’t like change or evolution. It’s just the way of
The lands.





You cant balance human and orc, even if you make auto-heal (stupid idea 6mana = 1 hp + one hit by ogre(lvl 7 ~~24hp) instead of hit ogre), even if you will make 1 mana = 1hp, knights will only heal and watch how they die by ogres

slow still is not enough to kill 9 ogres by 9 knights, better is polymorph, but it will be op if you change mana to 100 per one polymorph
people want play orcs, why do you want them to choose human?

You cant change BL cost from 50 mana to 100 mana, cause game will be slower, people will camp more,  new ogres will be usless to defense against ogres with lust




If you are modder, why dont you help us(me) i modding MPQ? I asked many question how to change for example mission objective, adding new ai? (there are only 53 if i remember), how to change ai place for buldings, why ai sometimes stuck?

Lower gryphon cost to 1500 and make ogres undead units.  That will do two things, create air gameplay and allow paladins to actually be a thing.  Auto slow and auto heal are nice in theory... even auto slow could be nice but it wouldn’t work due to previous statements you made.


another stupid idea 9 knights full mana will kill hm...  255/4= 63 , so 9 ogres will got 27 hp or 2 ogres will be with full hp thrid will got 63 hp
dragon = gryphon why one of them should be cheaper?

you want make humans op? cause you want play online with humans?


any of your idea arent good
 
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Szwagier on September 06, 2019, 04:15:48 AM
Every time someone try to do something for this game, there always a bunch of haters who try to destroy him and his work.

A bunch of newbe who cant even beat SPB, and a bunch of hacker who dont use AH and customize there hotkeys with the MPQ.

This community is totally toxic and will die toxic,

Im done with this game, good luck to all, have fun.



http://ladder.war2.ru/record.php?player1=SPB-&player2=Equinox (http://ladder.war2.ru/record.php?player1=SPB-&player2=Equinox)

you lost iin this year 2-0 to him :/
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Tolean on September 06, 2019, 04:29:56 AM
What is wrong with this ppl,if they don't like anything they quit. Are we here 12 years old???
Enjoy the game, have fun. Find some good players/persons and enjoy it.
Quit and quit and quit and done and done????
Like small girls....

If you want to quit just quit,this public crying is anoying and then anyway all of them come back.
Or quit And stay silence.
Or make smth good. Quiting is worse then any other solution.

Public quiting is just a need of attention.

And shit like I spent here/for this game x years.... Everyone is here for x years.
If it's toxic there is another ,, non toxic " server. We are all grown ppl. If you stay here, stay, if you want to leave, leave. But doing nothing and crying how much love you have for the game and quiting.....
Too much drama. Women drama. It was ok for Bs, not ok for a 30 years old man.
Anyway.... Have fun, love the game, try to help.
Quiting is not a solution.
Crying also.
Playing can help the game more then all this drama on forum.
And last week's it's too much drama. Are we getting here in the ages when men start to have mid age crysis?
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Incos on September 06, 2019, 05:53:11 AM
Yay, wyrmsun.

Equinox has a good point, the community here is sometimes toxic.  I honestly feel the lumber bar will help new players learn timing and resource management better and maybe close the skill gap.  I don’t particularly see it as a problem as most, but, I’m a modder who appreciates game improvement.  One thing I know is that anyone can modify the mpq files, the key change is not a hack.  In fact you can learn step by step on how to do it in the mod section. 

I’m pretty sure everyone wants to keep the game the same. Hence why I got a lot of pushback even on balancing humans (people stated orcs are not op, yet they always pick them).  RU doesn’t like change or evolution. It’s just the way of
The lands.





You cant balance human and orc, even if you make auto-heal (stupid idea 6mana = 1 hp + one hit by ogre(lvl 7 ~~24hp) instead of hit ogre), even if you will make 1 mana = 1hp, knights will only heal and watch how they die by ogres

slow still is not enough to kill 9 ogres by 9 knights, better is polymorph, but it will be op if you change mana to 100 per one polymorph
people want play orcs, why do you want them to choose human?

You cant change BL cost from 50 mana to 100 mana, cause game will be slower, people will camp more,  new ogres will be usless to defense against ogres with lust




If you are modder, why dont you help us(me) i modding MPQ? I asked many question how to change for example mission objective, adding new ai? (there are only 53 if i remember), how to change ai place for buldings, why ai sometimes stuck?

Lower gryphon cost to 1500 and make ogres undead units.  That will do two things, create air gameplay and allow paladins to actually be a thing.  Auto slow and auto heal are nice in theory... even auto slow could be nice but it wouldn’t work due to previous statements you made.


another stupid idea 9 knights full mana will kill hm...  255/4= 63 , so 9 ogres will got 27 hp or 2 ogres will be with full hp thrid will got 63 hp
dragon = gryphon why one of them should be cheaper?

you want make humans op? cause you want play online with humans?


any of your idea arent good
 

I don’t think you will get it and if you haven’t got it after all these years then I don’t know what to say.  Maybe go play on bnet and open your eyes a little.  You are very close minded, you haven’t mentioned a single idea yet. All you are doing is being s typical nay sayer (probably another one that votes against the lumber bar) because you don’t like change.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Szwagier on September 06, 2019, 06:57:34 AM
Yay, wyrmsun.

Equinox has a good point, the community here is sometimes toxic.  I honestly feel the lumber bar will help new players learn timing and resource management better and maybe close the skill gap.  I don’t particularly see it as a problem as most, but, I’m a modder who appreciates game improvement.  One thing I know is that anyone can modify the mpq files, the key change is not a hack.  In fact you can learn step by step on how to do it in the mod section. 

I’m pretty sure everyone wants to keep the game the same. Hence why I got a lot of pushback even on balancing humans (people stated orcs are not op, yet they always pick them).  RU doesn’t like change or evolution. It’s just the way of
The lands.






You cant balance human and orc, even if you make auto-heal (stupid idea 6mana = 1 hp + one hit by ogre(lvl 7 ~~24hp) instead of hit ogre), even if you will make 1 mana = 1hp, knights will only heal and watch how they die by ogres

slow still is not enough to kill 9 ogres by 9 knights, better is polymorph, but it will be op if you change mana to 100 per one polymorph
people want play orcs, why do you want them to choose human?

You cant change BL cost from 50 mana to 100 mana, cause game will be slower, people will camp more,  new ogres will be usless to defense against ogres with lust




If you are modder, why dont you help us(me) i modding MPQ? I asked many question how to change for example mission objective, adding new ai? (there are only 53 if i remember), how to change ai place for buldings, why ai sometimes stuck?


Lower gryphon cost to 1500 and make ogres undead units.  That will do two things, create air gameplay and allow paladins to actually be a thing.  Auto slow and auto heal are nice in theory... even auto slow could be nice but it wouldn’t work due to previous statements you made.



another stupid idea 9 knights full mana will kill hm...  255/4= 63 , so 9 ogres will got 27 hp or 2 ogres will be with full hp thrid will got 63 hp
dragon = gryphon why one of them should be cheaper?

you want make humans op? cause you want play online with humans?


any of your idea arent good
 


I don’t think you will get it and if you haven’t got it after all these years then I don’t know what to say.  Maybe go play on bnet and open your eyes a little.  You are very close minded, you haven’t mentioned a single idea yet. All you are doing is being s typical nay sayer (probably another one that votes against the lumber bar) because you don’t like change.




I said it many times, its about MAP, not race, sea map  human>orc, cause you cant attack with only ogres, there are diffrent units mages, ships, land map orc> human
I got still no idea why you want change warcraft2, cause only you want? If most people dont want change you still want change cause you can do it? Make vote if you will get +50% you can change something but if you want get 50% you will do nothing
Most users are not even read forum, It would be nice if vote will be in game

I can win with humans
http://ladder.war2.ru/reports/gr_20190901195640_035206 (http://ladder.war2.ru/reports/gr_20190901195640_035206)
http://ladder.war2.ru/reports/gr_20190901194214_035201 (http://ladder.war2.ru/reports/gr_20190901194214_035201)
http://ladder.war2.ru/reports/gr_20190901190458_035168 (http://ladder.war2.ru/reports/gr_20190901190458_035168)

and this is not a water map
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Lambchops on September 06, 2019, 06:58:40 AM
OK I voted "nothing is" only because there isn't an option that says "everything is".

Chop bars, the lobby map, black2pink, warlat, the res bug fix, the noCDloader, observer, insight, iL's ploader, war2combat itself etc. etc...

These things are ALL "hacks". Discussing if they are hacks or not is pretty irrellevant - they all are.


The real question is: Which of these mods (aka: hacks) do you want to have in the game?


"For better or worse", (I think for the better), iL has released a new version, that is what we have for now. I think we should just try it out for a while and then we can all make an informed decision about what we prefer, instead of a reactionary one based on fear and mistrust of change.

From what I can see most of the negativity seems to be based on the fear of losing some kind of competative edge, or making it too easy for new players.... I got to say if a new player knowing how many chops a peon has made is going to make anyone lose a game, then they're not very good to start off with ;)

Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Lone on September 06, 2019, 08:24:33 AM
Yay, wyrmsun.

Equinox has a good point, the community here is sometimes toxic.  I honestly feel the lumber bar will help new players learn timing and resource management better and maybe close the skill gap.  I don’t particularly see it as a problem as most, but, I’m a modder who appreciates game improvement.  One thing I know is that anyone can modify the mpq files, the key change is not a hack.  In fact you can learn step by step on how to do it in the mod section. 

I’m pretty sure everyone wants to keep the game the same. Hence why I got a lot of pushback even on balancing humans (people stated orcs are not op, yet they always pick them).  RU doesn’t like change or evolution. It’s just the way of
The lands.





You cant balance human and orc, even if you make auto-heal (stupid idea 6mana = 1 hp + one hit by ogre(lvl 7 ~~24hp) instead of hit ogre), even if you will make 1 mana = 1hp, knights will only heal and watch how they die by ogres

slow still is not enough to kill 9 ogres by 9 knights, better is polymorph, but it will be op if you change mana to 100 per one polymorph
people want play orcs, why do you want them to choose human?

You cant change BL cost from 50 mana to 100 mana, cause game will be slower, people will camp more,  new ogres will be usless to defense against ogres with lust




If you are modder, why dont you help us(me) i modding MPQ? I asked many question how to change for example mission objective, adding new ai? (there are only 53 if i remember), how to change ai place for buldings, why ai sometimes stuck?

Lower gryphon cost to 1500 and make ogres undead units.  That will do two things, create air gameplay and allow paladins to actually be a thing.  Auto slow and auto heal are nice in theory... even auto slow could be nice but it wouldn’t work due to previous statements you made.


another stupid idea 9 knights full mana will kill hm...  255/4= 63 , so 9 ogres will got 27 hp or 2 ogres will be with full hp thrid will got 63 hp
dragon = gryphon why one of them should be cheaper?

you want make humans op? cause you want play online with humans?


any of your idea arent good
 

I don’t think you will get it and if you haven’t got it after all these years then I don’t know what to say.  Maybe go play on bnet and open your eyes a little.  You are very close minded, you haven’t mentioned a single idea yet. All you are doing is being s typical nay sayer (probably another one that votes against the lumber bar) because you don’t like change.

I admire how fiercely competitive you are, but you gotta try harder to take the title of #1 degenerate from Eq. Stop talking about changes until you can comprehend elementary school level math that just proved your idea is flawed...
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Incos on September 06, 2019, 09:18:10 AM
Thank you Lone.  “Gryphons equal dragons, why should they be cheaper”.. but paladins don’t equal ogre mages and they are the same price, so if we use u8 logic maybe we should just make knights cost less.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on September 06, 2019, 09:34:48 AM
Yay, wyrmsun.

Equinox has a good point, the community here is sometimes toxic.  I honestly feel the lumber bar will help new players learn timing and resource management better and maybe close the skill gap.  I don’t particularly see it as a problem as most, but, I’m a modder who appreciates game improvement.  One thing I know is that anyone can modify the mpq files, the key change is not a hack.  In fact you can learn step by step on how to do it in the mod section. 

I’m pretty sure everyone wants to keep the game the same. Hence why I got a lot of pushback even on balancing humans (people stated orcs are not op, yet they always pick them).  RU doesn’t like change or evolution. It’s just the way of
The lands.





You cant balance human and orc, even if you make auto-heal (stupid idea 6mana = 1 hp + one hit by ogre(lvl 7 ~~24hp) instead of hit ogre), even if you will make 1 mana = 1hp, knights will only heal and watch how they die by ogres

slow still is not enough to kill 9 ogres by 9 knights, better is polymorph, but it will be op if you change mana to 100 per one polymorph
people want play orcs, why do you want them to choose human?

You cant change BL cost from 50 mana to 100 mana, cause game will be slower, people will camp more,  new ogres will be usless to defense against ogres with lust




If you are modder, why dont you help us(me) i modding MPQ? I asked many question how to change for example mission objective, adding new ai? (there are only 53 if i remember), how to change ai place for buldings, why ai sometimes stuck?

Lower gryphon cost to 1500 and make ogres undead units.  That will do two things, create air gameplay and allow paladins to actually be a thing.  Auto slow and auto heal are nice in theory... even auto slow could be nice but it wouldn’t work due to previous statements you made.


another stupid idea 9 knights full mana will kill hm...  255/4= 63 , so 9 ogres will got 27 hp or 2 ogres will be with full hp thrid will got 63 hp
dragon = gryphon why one of them should be cheaper?

you want make humans op? cause you want play online with humans?


any of your idea arent good
 

I don’t think you will get it and if you haven’t got it after all these years then I don’t know what to say.  Maybe go play on bnet and open your eyes a little.  You are very close minded, you haven’t mentioned a single idea yet. All you are doing is being s typical nay sayer (probably another one that votes against the lumber bar) because you don’t like change.

I admire how fiercely competitive you are, but you gotta try harder to take the title of #1 degenerate from Eq. Stop talking about changes until you can comprehend elementary school level math that just proved your idea is flawed...

Dont be mad cuz swift raped your newbe ass and your now #2.

It's how it work hacker.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Szwagier on September 06, 2019, 09:39:23 AM
Thank you Lone.  “Gryphons equal dragons, why should they be cheaper”.. but paladins don’t equal ogre mages and they are the same price, so if we use u8 logic maybe we should just make knights cost less.

Knights cant cost less cause human will be op in tier2, maybe after upgarde to palladins, but still you need to have votes not only cause you want
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Incos on September 06, 2019, 09:56:09 AM
Polls up
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: CLAVV on September 06, 2019, 10:03:04 AM
Knights cant cost less cause human will be op in tier2
WOTS WRONG WITH THAT? I THINK IT WOULD BE BETTER TO HAVE RACES WITH DIFFERENT POWERSPIKE TIMINGS. WOULD SPICE THINGS UP N PROMOTE NEW STRATS (TABAC[MAN] AND MESSIAH COULD USE HUMAN N KNIGHT RUSH EVERY TIEM)

IM TALKIN BOUT LAND MAPS. IT WOULD PROLLY FUK UP WATER MAP BALANCE
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Lone on September 06, 2019, 10:07:11 AM
Yay, wyrmsun.

Equinox has a good point, the community here is sometimes toxic.  I honestly feel the lumber bar will help new players learn timing and resource management better and maybe close the skill gap.  I don’t particularly see it as a problem as most, but, I’m a modder who appreciates game improvement.  One thing I know is that anyone can modify the mpq files, the key change is not a hack.  In fact you can learn step by step on how to do it in the mod section. 

I’m pretty sure everyone wants to keep the game the same. Hence why I got a lot of pushback even on balancing humans (people stated orcs are not op, yet they always pick them).  RU doesn’t like change or evolution. It’s just the way of
The lands.





You cant balance human and orc, even if you make auto-heal (stupid idea 6mana = 1 hp + one hit by ogre(lvl 7 ~~24hp) instead of hit ogre), even if you will make 1 mana = 1hp, knights will only heal and watch how they die by ogres

slow still is not enough to kill 9 ogres by 9 knights, better is polymorph, but it will be op if you change mana to 100 per one polymorph
people want play orcs, why do you want them to choose human?

You cant change BL cost from 50 mana to 100 mana, cause game will be slower, people will camp more,  new ogres will be usless to defense against ogres with lust




If you are modder, why dont you help us(me) i modding MPQ? I asked many question how to change for example mission objective, adding new ai? (there are only 53 if i remember), how to change ai place for buldings, why ai sometimes stuck?

Lower gryphon cost to 1500 and make ogres undead units.  That will do two things, create air gameplay and allow paladins to actually be a thing.  Auto slow and auto heal are nice in theory... even auto slow could be nice but it wouldn’t work due to previous statements you made.


another stupid idea 9 knights full mana will kill hm...  255/4= 63 , so 9 ogres will got 27 hp or 2 ogres will be with full hp thrid will got 63 hp
dragon = gryphon why one of them should be cheaper?

you want make humans op? cause you want play online with humans?


any of your idea arent good
 

I don’t think you will get it and if you haven’t got it after all these years then I don’t know what to say.  Maybe go play on bnet and open your eyes a little.  You are very close minded, you haven’t mentioned a single idea yet. All you are doing is being s typical nay sayer (probably another one that votes against the lumber bar) because you don’t like change.

I admire how fiercely competitive you are, but you gotta try harder to take the title of #1 degenerate from Eq. Stop talking about changes until you can comprehend elementary school level math that just proved your idea is flawed...

Dont be mad cuz swift raped your newbe ass and your now #2.

It's how it work hacker.
6vs5 owned baddie. fyi the whole community *without exception* completely agrees on the fact that you are *insanely dumb*.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on September 06, 2019, 10:18:39 AM
Thank you Lone.  “Gryphons equal dragons, why should they be cheaper”.. but paladins don’t equal ogre mages and they are the same price, so if we use u8 logic maybe we should just make knights cost less.

Knights cant cost less cause human will be op in tier2, maybe after upgarde to palladins, but still you need to have votes not only cause you want
On land maps and with orc players, tier 2 is almost bypassed completely. Orcs are also clearly better than humans in tier 3 on maps like GOW. It would be kind of fun to see new strategies evolve if humans got a tier 2 buff by way of cheaper or stronger knights. Not that I want to change the game, I don’t, I’m just curious what we might see in such games.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Incos on September 06, 2019, 10:25:09 AM
We could always test it, if everyone agrees on a poll.  Then from there if we don’t like it, change it back through another poll.  Ilyaz not going to care about adjusting an easy value on whatever is agreed on.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: jordan4385 on September 06, 2019, 10:26:07 AM
Definitely the entire community should work to develop as many mods as they want, with one rule in mind -

HAVE THE MODS BE DISABLED BY DEFAULT, AND HAVE THE ABILITY TO ENABLE DURING GAME CREATION.

So this is a pain because we cant easily modify the actual GUI for war2, or can we ?

Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Incos on September 06, 2019, 10:40:19 AM
Great question. 
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on September 06, 2019, 11:09:49 AM
We could always test it, if everyone agrees on a poll.  Then from there if we don’t like it, change it back through another poll.  Ilyaz not going to care about adjusting an easy value on whatever is agreed on.
You could just create a Custom GOW.pud where the knights are stronger or cheaper.  Maybe make archers stronger, and dragons and gryphons faster as well.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Szwagier on September 06, 2019, 11:17:22 AM
We could always test it, if everyone agrees on a poll.  Then from there if we don’t like it, change it back through another poll.  Ilyaz not going to care about adjusting an easy value on whatever is agreed on.
You could just create a Custom GOW.pud where the knights are stronger or cheaper.  Maybe make archers stronger, and dragons and gryphons faster as well.

But you cant change it like speed attack
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Oragorn on September 07, 2019, 06:15:24 AM
Voting options are cretins.
I do not know what to choose there. MUCH excess.
Bitch, or CHOICE that THIS IS CHEAT, or, bitch, THIS IS NOT CHEAT.

I vote that the chopbar is NOT cheat.

Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Oragorn on September 07, 2019, 06:24:51 AM
Misters clever, figs.
Tell me, will it be fair if someone uses this plugin and someone does not?
I heard that the CHOPBARS plugin has been used up to this point. And no one complained - it was probably convenient to have an easy advantage, right?

So what is the problem of legalizing a really useful plugin?
_____
Господа-умники, фиговы.
Скажите, честно ли будет, если кто-то будет использовать этот плагин, а кто-то нет?
Я слышал, что плагин ЧОПБАРС, использовали и до этого момента. И никто не жаловался - наверное, было удобно, иметь лёгкое преимущество, не так ли?

Так в чём, проблема легализовать действительно полезный плагин?
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Incos on September 07, 2019, 09:21:23 AM
We could always test it, if everyone agrees on a poll.  Then from there if we don’t like it, change it back through another poll.  Ilyaz not going to care about adjusting an easy value on whatever is agreed on.
You could just create a Custom GOW.pud where the knights are stronger or cheaper.  Maybe make archers stronger, and dragons and gryphons faster as well.
You can’t do it unless you use the setting “use map settings” which in turn on GoW would just make it fixed order (ie red 4:00, blue 5:00).  On melee the settings won’t stick(through testing). I don’t believe there’s another way to do this besides setting it in the .exe.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: {Lance} on September 07, 2019, 03:39:46 PM
ybe go play on bnet and open your eyes a little.  You are very close minded, you haven’t mentioned a single idea yet. All you are doing is being s typical nay sayer (probably another one that votes against the lumber bar) because you don’t like change.

That is why NONE of these game mechanic type mods belong here (health bars, unit strength modifications, etc).  There is already an engine that allows you to do those types of mods WITHOUT the difficulty of implementing them in the GUI.  Since you have the actual sourcecode for the GUI,  doing all of that is very simple.  If you DL the latest Wargus,  you'll see that they already have these types of mods as options AT game creation time.  If you REALLY want to do these things, then all you have to do is DL wargus,  remove all the garbage they put into it,  make it as close to war2 as possible, and then start over with adding whatever mods you want.  Thats the best way to get a "new" war2 without fucking up what we have already.  The server for a stratagus based game is called Metaserver and its essentially the same thing as PVPGN.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: easycompany on September 07, 2019, 03:49:00 PM
the best thing would update 1.33 + dosbox ....all it needs is ally vision there ya go android mac linux windows solaris reactos os2 warp 4.0 is covered
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: RipE[Eur0] on October 11, 2019, 05:57:27 PM
wtf is chop bars?? some custom map shit???

pink "hack" isnt a hack, it is fair for everybody.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on October 11, 2019, 07:51:37 PM
wtf is chop bars?? some custom map shit???

pink "hack" isnt a hack, it is fair for everybody.

Chop bar was fair for everyone, they just decide whats it's fair or not depent of what they want from there personal gaming.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Lambchops on October 12, 2019, 05:59:46 AM
wtf is chop bars??



   The "Chop Bars" plugin



(http://forum.war2.ru/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2703.0;attach=3017)

The "Chop Bars" plugin gives you an on-screen progress bar for chopping peons that you own and are selected.

I released it so everyone could use it, mainly as a demo of the sort of improvements we could make to the game to make it better for everyone.

Because it conveys a little bit of information a few people started throwing a huge tantrum about it.

iL released it (and the rest of my plugins) as part of the latest CE then removed the chop_bars later because of people crying on this forum. AFAIK it has never actually been declared to be an illegal mod. Its still on the forum somewhere in a zip file. If you want to check it out you can just put the chop_bars.w2p file in the PLUGIN folder and restart wc2.




Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Winchester on October 12, 2019, 06:36:33 AM
You were the only one throwing a "huge tantrum" about it Lambchops because people disagreed on it and you  then decided to throw a huge tantrum, which you then followed up with trying to frame me for hacking. Then you got caught hacking days later, banned, and now you're probably the one who hacked burnt too because you're still pissed off you're not allowed to hack and want to take it out on war2s most passionate player.

But by all means, we all threw the tantrum. Not you. Even though you rage replied to every post that was like "cool mods, but the chop bar should probably go"
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: RipE[Eur0] on October 12, 2019, 08:33:26 AM
Oh that lamb. Forgot, I've read about it yes. Well, it is fair if it is loaded in combat for everybody.

However, as an old skooler I admit it changes the gaming style a lot.
In my op it is a skill to remember ur own peons n switch them around with diff jobs.

But , I don't c much harm done if every combat user has it.
Bnet users should b forbidden cuz have no AH... I know the language probs but u can mode hotkeys rite?

Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Equinox on October 12, 2019, 08:59:19 AM
Oh that lamb. Forgot, I've read about it yes. Well, it is fair if it is loaded in combat for everybody.

However, as an old skooler I admit it changes the gaming style a lot.
In my op it is a skill to remember ur own peons n switch them around with diff jobs.

But , I don't c much harm done if every combat user has it.
Bnet users should b forbidden cuz have no AH... I know the language probs but u can mode hotkeys rite?

I agree with you ripe it's a skill to remember, and after 20 years i know how to play that game without chop bar, and im sure you can do it too.

The fact is, after a certain level, when you became pro, you dont need that thing at all, but it was still a nice tool to add on the game for new commer and as improvement for the game itself.

It's also a skill being able to adapt yourself on new mecanic and new updates.

Every games add new mecanics to there game every weeks or months, thats why best players of the worlds always follow updates no matter what.

Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Lambchops on October 12, 2019, 09:19:49 AM
The fact is, after a certain level, when you became pro, you dont need that thing at all, but it was still a nice tool to add on the game for new commer and as improvement for the game itself.

Yes. Nobody needs it, and I honestly don't care if people use it or not. It is no big deal at all.

Was really just a test/demo.

The result of the test was: Don't waste your time and energy creating things for a bunch of children who will just complain and abuse you anyway.
Title: Re: Which is more of a hack 2?
Post by: Winchester on October 12, 2019, 10:00:05 AM
I don't care if people use it or not, but if they suggest that its a potential hack with a valid explanation, i'm gonna abuse them then lie about it months later. it is absolutely a huge deal to me that I'm not allowed to hack.

Was really just a test/demo to see what I can get away with.

The result of the test was. I thought I hit a homerun but proved what a dodgy asshole I was when people had concerns. I could dish it out but couldn't handle even a fraction of it back, so here I am revising history months later on how much I don't care. But I really care.



fixed