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General => Moderated General Discussion => Topic started by: BabyShark on September 18, 2017, 10:11:05 PM

Title: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: BabyShark on September 18, 2017, 10:11:05 PM
@Lambchops You're invited! :)
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: mousEtopher on September 18, 2017, 10:21:29 PM
Quote from: some guy
Look, it boils down to this: Not knowing something doesn't prove God exists. Not knowing is simply not knowing. Science is perfectly content to say it doesn't know something yet. Making something up to fill the void of knowledge does not actually fill the void of knowledge. That's why there are different words for knowledge and faith. Knowing how the universe works does not disprove the existence of God. Not knowing how the universe works does not prove the existence of God. The universe is as it is regardless of what you choose to believe. God is or is not regardless of what you choose to believe.

i agree with this person's assessment
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on September 18, 2017, 10:26:09 PM
Is that person you?
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: BabyShark on September 18, 2017, 10:45:20 PM
You know, mousey, this is actually a pretty good statement.

God is or God is not, and His existence is not influenced by our belief or unbelief in that existence.

Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on September 18, 2017, 10:51:31 PM
Love for those who live in a condition of objective sin demands that we struggle to liberate them from it. The liberation of the poor and the liberation of the rich are achieved simultaneously.
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: BabyShark on September 18, 2017, 11:09:39 PM
Relax, blid, you're not gonna be banned for failing to capitalize. :P


...right mousey?
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: BabyShark on September 18, 2017, 11:11:28 PM
It actually looks good lol. Just haven't seen you do it before. :)
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: mousEtopher on September 19, 2017, 12:04:25 AM
Relax, blid, you're not gonna be banned for failing to capitalize. :P


...right mousey?

i honestly have no freaking clue what constitutes a bannable offense from the board at this point
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on September 19, 2017, 05:24:56 AM
Discussion here is extremely serious. Proper capitalization is only fitting as a matter of decorum, even if not mandated by the rules themselves.
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: mousEtopher on September 19, 2017, 08:15:23 AM
damn blid so classy, i'm almost compelled to follow suit
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: Lambchops on September 19, 2017, 08:55:33 AM
@Lambchops You're invited! :)
Aww thx Baby :)

I have a busy couple of weeks coming up so I might not be able to contribute as much as I would like in the near future - but nm I dont think this topic will be [SOLVED] any time soon.


Quote from: some guy
..... The universe is as it is regardless of what you choose to believe. God is or is not regardless of what you choose to believe.

i agree with this person's assessment

Yeah I agree with it... mostly.....  Although I have this idea floating around in the back of my head that suggests that God exists because people have faith, and that people create God the same way God created people, which is an impossible chicken and egg thing, but many of the big questions boil down to paradoxes.

... and I'm not convinced of this type of thing, like I am sure of science stuff, when I occasionally think about them, they're just ideas, not beliefs.


BTW: I consider myself a hopeful agnostic. I don't believe in God, but I would like to. I would love to be able to convince myself that God exists. I havn't yet, but it will be a nice day if it ever happens. BUT... I am not convinced that God doesn't exist either. I have absolutely no evidence whatsoever to disprove God, and would never try to argue that point.

Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: Lambchops on September 19, 2017, 09:03:42 AM

Now "big bangs" and particle physics ideas are awesome fun places to visit in you mind ... the possibilities are amazing.... and for me, these concepts seem much more "Godly" than an old guy with a white beard making play-doh animals and trees then tapping them with his magic God wand and bringing them to life. You don't make a universe like that ... eww... God would do it so much more awesomly!... well I'd like to think so anyway.


Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: Lambchops on September 19, 2017, 09:15:31 AM
Relax, blid, you're not gonna be banned for failing to capitalize. :P

Certainly not in the marxism thread ;D


EDIT:  ...sorry, the Marxism thread.
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on September 19, 2017, 10:33:58 AM
The Marxism/leftism thread is a free-wheeling forum for chat found in the General Discussion subforum.  Serious posting is not required. 

You can find most of the cool people in the leftism thread. You can just chill and do whatever and totally relax. "Take it easy" is the leftism thread motto, for example, that's how laid back it is there. Show up if you want to have a good time. Another good reason to show up is if you want to hang out with friends.
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: Lambchops on September 19, 2017, 10:51:04 AM
The Marxism/leftism thread is a free-wheeling forum for chat found in the General Discussion subforum.  Serious posting is not required.

Yeah cool, I was just making a bad pun "failing to capitalize" ;)

Do you get sent to the shame thread for bad puns?
If so I'll understand ... It was pretty woeful lol.
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on September 19, 2017, 11:53:38 AM
I consider myself a hopeful agnostic. I don't believe in God, but I would like to. I would love to be able to convince myself that God exists


why? doesn't seem like something to be excited over, more disturbing than anything. god is letting the earth slowly degenerate to capitalists and capitalism.
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on September 19, 2017, 12:01:42 PM
Gee, why would it be nice for there to be an eternal paradise in the afterlife instead of just the rot and decay of your corpse?
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on September 19, 2017, 12:15:48 PM
your rotting corpse helps a tree grow.

and what the hell is paradise? that's the most Utopian garbage idea of all time.
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: BabyShark on September 19, 2017, 12:22:45 PM
I was listening to this and was so moved by this beautiful hymn that I want to share it with everyone!

And Can it be That I should Gain - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQeIGbKqiw8#)

We look around at the world and see chaos, disaster, people hurting, people dying, and if we aren't looking in the right place, it can seem hopeless! It can look and feel like this world has been abandoned to its own devices.

This isn't so!

God loves people so much that He took every evil on Himself, He took all sins and suffered for us! He chose to be mocked, insulted, whipped, beaten, and crucified for us. He loves us dearly!

Of course we don't understand everything now, many things are mysteries, but when we see a love like that, a love that sacrifices self and takes punishment in our place, we can trust that love, we can trust that voice.

I love God because He loved me and died for me!

What blessed assurance this sweet sentence gives! I know that my Redeemer lives!

Praise the Lord for His great love and mercy!

Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on September 19, 2017, 12:23:07 PM
your rotting corpse helps a tree grow.

and what the hell is paradise? that's the most Utopian garbage idea of all time.
Paradise can be anything.  If you can imagine a god, surely you can imagine a paradise.  It's funny that you're so profoundly atheist that you can't even say it would be cool if there was a heaven, and a god, and the god has a big white beard and he's chilling up in the clouds flanked by angels playing harps, but the harps are metal as fuck, and everyone is overcome with love and joy or whatever.
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on September 19, 2017, 12:25:02 PM
I mean, this probably isn't even what Lambchops was going for and it's likely he just likes the idea of there being a god, but it's such an easy answer.  Of course a literal paradise would be good my man, and, heck, while you're up there your corpse is still gonna be helping trees grow or feeding worms or whatever too, so it's win-win!
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on September 19, 2017, 12:31:49 PM
your rotting corpse helps a tree grow.

and what the hell is paradise? that's the most Utopian garbage idea of all time.
Paradise can be anything.  If you can imagine a god, surely you can imagine a paradise.  It's funny that you're so profoundly atheist that you can't even say it would be cool if there was a heaven, and a god, and the god has a big white beard and he's chilling up in the clouds flanked by angels playing harps, but the harps are metal as fuck, and everyone is overcome with love and joy or whatever.

of course the idea of living in a paradise is good. you can invent all sorts of ideas in your head that would be cool. but that's all it is , ideas. and the idea of paradise is so absurdly fantastical it borders on mental illness to believe in it. there's no universal idea of paradise, people would have their own ideas of what paradise is. women's ideas of paradise would differ from men's. an adult's would differ from a child's etc.. there are depictions of paradise where milk flows like waterfalls, but how the hell is that paradise to lactose intolerant people or someone who just hates milk? it's a vague fantasy. and why would a god responsible to letting capitalism run rampant on the garbage earth be the one to spawn it?
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: BabyShark on September 19, 2017, 12:36:31 PM
The best experiences of my life have been in church. The mystical communion in the blood of Christ that we share with all believers, forgiveness of sins, hearing the Word of God, the friendships and relationships, the love and support, singing hymns of praise midst a throng of fellow believers to the God that made us and bought us back from slavery to sin, nothing, and I mean nothing can top that!

The pleasures in life God gave us to enjoy, the very best things in life such as amazing connecting and laughing with cherished people over amazing food, the delightful ecstasy of physical intimacy between a man and woman who love each other, the beauty of children's laughter, the miracle of the conception and birth of a brand new child, the beauty of nature, the joy of music, the satisfaction of hard work, the joy of solving challenges, the fun in hobbies and games, the exhilaration of a roller coaster, the specialness of friends and friendship, the wonderful peace of rest from work...everything that is good and beautiful and worth pursuing in life...it ALL PALES in comparison to what HEAVEN WILL BE!!

Think of it!

The One who made each of us and each and every pleasure for us to enjoy...think of being with HIM and the community of saints in a place free of sin, death, pain, evil, hate...forever!

I can't wait! :)

Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on September 19, 2017, 12:59:03 PM
your rotting corpse helps a tree grow.

and what the hell is paradise? that's the most Utopian garbage idea of all time.
Paradise can be anything.  If you can imagine a god, surely you can imagine a paradise.  It's funny that you're so profoundly atheist that you can't even say it would be cool if there was a heaven, and a god, and the god has a big white beard and he's chilling up in the clouds flanked by angels playing harps, but the harps are metal as fuck, and everyone is overcome with love and joy or whatever.

of course the idea of living in a paradise is good. you can invent all sorts of ideas in your head that would be cool. but that's all it is , ideas. and the idea of paradise is so absurdly fantastical it borders on mental illness to believe in it. there's no universal idea of paradise, people would have their own ideas of what paradise is. women's ideas of paradise would differ from men's. an adult's would differ from a child's etc.. there are depictions of paradise where milk flows like waterfalls, but how the hell is that paradise to lactose intolerant people or someone who just hates milk? it's a vague fantasy. and why would a god responsible to letting capitalism run rampant on the garbage earth be the one to spawn it?
But Lambchops didn't even say he believed in it; he said he didn't really but that it'd be nice.

Anyway, it's simple to say that in a paradise, none of those contradictions would matter.  The souls who want a land of milk and honey would get it while the lactose intolerant person would be cured of that intolerance and the child's paradise would be full of puppies and toys or something even better than puppies and toys that we can't even imagine because it's not of the worldly realm and so on.  This is easy.

God can let capitalism run rampant because He chose to give humanity complete freedom, and if we suffer in this world, so much the greater will our joy be in the next; our suffering in the temporal sphere is minuscule compared to the eternal paradise of God's kingdom, our concerns are meaningless and all fades to nothing as our pain is completely washed over by God's love, as we transcend this world for the next.  Blah blah blah.  You don't need to believe any of this, but you do need to expand your mind if you don't even have the imagination to conceive of these things.
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on September 19, 2017, 01:00:30 PM
this demonstrates well why karl marx called religion the "opiate of the masses".  it seems dangerous to think this way because it keeps to passive to real world issues. "yea sure the world is being destroyed but who cares, we'll be in paradise after we die." all the while the bourgeoisie laughs while they are already living in paradise on earth. in the end there was never any heaven or hell, no afterlife at all.
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on September 19, 2017, 01:24:31 PM
Well, that's completely separate from trying to make logical arguments against the likelihood of any religion (always a futile waste of time).

Of course I don't very much buy this argument either; that's not quite what Marx said (he framed religion as a reaction from oppression, not a contribution toward oppression).  Lenin too: "It would be bourgeois narrow-mindedness to forget that the yoke of religion that weighs upon mankind is merely a product and reflection of the economic yoke within society."

People don't generally write off the only existence they've ever known in service of religion, and there are plenty of ways to incorporate religion into radical philosophy.  There are issues with the Church and various denominations basically being instruments of the ruling classes, of course, as is the case with most existing structures and organizations that must be destroyed in this world to build the next.
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: BabyShark on September 19, 2017, 01:37:24 PM
It is not true that Christians are passive about real world issues.

Christians are continually praying for victims of sickness and catastrophe, donating money and goods and food to the needy, opposing oppression, abuse, abortion, and other evils, and so on.

Many acts of love and kindness are unsung, unknown, seemingly minor things that make the life of someone else better.

One Christian woman I know took in her husband's elderly grandmother to live with and take care of. Most people just dump them off in some facility, but she is showing love to her husband and his grandmother by sacrificing time, freedom, money, effort to care for another person in spite of her having a bunch of kids of her own and a really full schedule. The grandmother's life is made better by this.

It is not at all true that Christianity makes people passive.

Indifference and passivity is a much more likely response from those who believe everything in existence is a meaningless, random accident that came from nowhere and is going nowhere. Human life has no value and no meaning if it is indeed an accidental collection of atoms that randomly came about.

If you look at the amazing design of the human body, however, it is anything but random or accidental.

It's a beautifully designed machine that is so much more than a machine. From the complexity of a single cell, to the wonder of the functioning of every organ and system, to the jaw-dropping enigma which is the human brain, we are indeed, as the Bible states, fearfully and wonderfully made!!



Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on September 19, 2017, 02:00:00 PM
Of course I don't very much buy this argument either; that's not quite what Marx said (he framed religion as a reaction from oppression, not a contribution toward oppression).

yea. there's no contradiction to what i said, paradise is a significant idea of the oppressed. the issue arises when you start believing it so deeply that you stop caring about the real world.


It is not true that Christians are passive about real world issues.
that's true. there are communist christians.

If you look at the amazing design of the human body, however, it is anything but random or accidental.

It's a beautifully designed machine that is so much more than a machine. From the complexity of a single cell, to the wonder of the functioning of every organ and system, to the jaw-dropping enigma which is the human brain, we are indeed, as the Bible states, fearfully and wonderfully made!!

anyone who studies biology is probably in awe of the human body, but also understands its numerous flaws. when you make this argument, you are acknowledging god makes mistakes - and this isn't even touching on the subject of birth defects, genetic abnormalities and such. maybe you'll then make the argument that they weren't mistakes but purposefully done for reasons only god knows, but then it's disturbing to believe god would curse a child with leukemia or another abhorrent torturous disease.
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: BabyShark on September 19, 2017, 02:38:27 PM
If a pilot crashes a jet plane and then the plane is damaged, that doesn't prove that the jet plane wasn't amazingly designed.

You have to keep in mind, marx, that the original creation was designed perfect and flawless and sinless.

Mankind rebelled against God, disobeyed, and wrecked it, bringing the penalty upon ourselves of the curse and evil.

Work became hard for men, the ground would produce thorns and thistles, and work (which was part of the good and perfect creation) becomes burdensome, grueling, and difficult.

Childbirthing for women would become painful.

Let me share a beautiful passage from Romans 8!

Present Suffering and Future Glory

18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that[h] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.

22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
More Than Conquerors

31 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written:

“For your sake we face death all day long;
    we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”[j]

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[k] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on September 19, 2017, 02:45:56 PM
Thought experiment:
What if heaven is real and we had it and it was the USSR, and the devil (America) destroyed it?

(http://gif-finder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Wee-Bey-Whoa-What.gif)
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: BabyShark on September 19, 2017, 02:58:24 PM
A brief note on pain and suffering.

I'll start with saying I know suffering. I know suffering that lasts for years. I know physical pain. I know emotional pain.

Pain hurts. Yes.

But the assumption that if we experience pain and suffering in this life, that shows that God is either bad or doesn't love us, is false.

There are times when parents give pain to their children in the hopes that this pain will give them some measure of future benefit, for example when giving vaccines or dental fillings. A child being forced to eat broccoli when he wants candy may feel like Mommy is mean.

Here's an example from a book by Lee Strobel. A bear gets stuck in a trap.

(https://i.imgur.com/vjm27lG.jpg)

A person who finds the bear and wants to help the bear may want to pry the trap off (painful), shoot the bear with a tranquilizer dart (painful), or forcibly restrain the bear (painful, scary) in order to remove the trap that would lead to its demise.

The bear would perceive these attempts to help as attacks and see the human as an enemy.

As the bear is limited in its understanding of what the man is wanting to do to help it, so we are limited in our understanding, very much MORE so, in our understanding of God's action or apparent inaction in our lives here on earth.

To think that pain and suffering could be for our good, for our benefit, in ways that we can't see from our temporal vantage point, is often a thought we avoid when we are suffering.

How could this happen to me? What did I do to deserve this? I don't deserve this! He/she doesn't deserve that! God must not care at all!

Those are more common thoughts that I myself have had when in pain or watching someone I care about in pain.

If we look at the cross, where Jesus took the most unimaginable tortuous suffering on Himself for you and me, we can be assured that God does have our best interests in mind, that He does love us!!

Yes, it's hard to trust when life hurts. It's hard when you lose someone you love. It's hard when you're in so much physical pain that you feel like you can't bear it, that it will literally kill you.

But I can say that the pain I've experienced in my life has ultimately been good for me. Sometimes I don't know how or see it, but sometimes I do.

One small way that pain has helped form me is that it gives me more compassion towards others who are hurting. It makes me want to help other people who might be hurting.

Sometimes we need pain to stop us from sinning. We might be going down a wrong path, doing things God tells us not to do, and ignoring what God has to say. Continuing down this path could wreak havoc on the lives of many people, and cause a lot of pain to a lot of people. So experiencing personal pain as a result of wrongdoing can be discipline to lead us to repent from sin and turn back to God and do what He says, even when it's not what we feel like doing.

Pain is not the ultimate enemy.

God wants to save us from eternal destruction and spare us from joining the devil in hell for eternity in the lake of fire.

Pain can often be a method that is used to that end, the ultimate saving of souls.

There is so much we don't understand, but we have the evidence to see that God does love us and that we can trust Him completely.

Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on September 19, 2017, 05:12:55 PM
If a pilot crashes a jet plane and then the plane is damaged, that doesn't prove that the jet plane wasn't amazingly designed.

human body that you say was created by the infallible god vs a jet designed by fallible humans isn't really an apt comparison.

some flaws of the body i am referring to:  our use of the pharynx for both ingesting as well respiration. this can and has led to choking if we aren't careful.

extremely narrow birth canals on women, leading to tremendous pain. previously a leading cause of death for women was giving birth, improvements in medicine fixed this.

the blind spot in our vision (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_spot_%28vision%29)

 
so you probably want to be careful with this argument, you are indeed unwittingly claiming god is fallible when linking the greatness of god with the human body, that is far from the perfect machine you believe.
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: Lambchops on September 19, 2017, 10:02:51 PM
But Lambchops didn't even say he believed in it; he said he didn't really but that it'd be nice.

Yes. One thing I am sure of is that humans aren't infallible, and that if God exists, none of the human religions (Christian/Muslim/Judaism/Bhuddism etc.) have 100% got it right. So if I do ever meet God I'm pretty sure she will be something else entirely.

As for the world being messed up, surely for a creator, the only point in creating something is to give it free will and see what it does by itself, otherwise it's not a creation - it's a mural.
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: easycompany on September 22, 2017, 07:21:23 PM
from what i found out you dont meet god at all.....and he likes you to be holy as he is..well gone back general listening to music ill be there by meself.
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: easycompany on September 22, 2017, 08:15:56 PM
i know u got some haunted locations in aus..
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: easycompany on September 22, 2017, 08:42:08 PM
my main objective is to own all our haunted houses in my family..but my dam dog killed my great aunts ducks she still hates me ..im out of the house that raised all my family roots
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: easycompany on September 22, 2017, 09:16:58 PM
its why your a thinker and not a psychic
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: easycompany on September 22, 2017, 09:33:15 PM
al copone was a liar lol yeah right
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: easycompany on September 23, 2017, 10:03:32 PM
im bitchy its a trait ..everyone is one the same page how great :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: easycompany on September 23, 2017, 10:18:46 PM
but fixing to go to the bar and run the jukebox..tip the bartenders by the rounds u own the place
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: easycompany on September 23, 2017, 11:55:00 PM
yal right good luck
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: woofy on September 26, 2017, 06:32:38 AM
42.
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: BabyShark on September 26, 2017, 10:46:00 PM
If a pilot crashes a jet plane and then the plane is damaged, that doesn't prove that the jet plane wasn't amazingly designed.

human body that you say was created by the infallible god vs a jet designed by fallible humans isn't really an apt comparison.

some flaws of the body i am referring to:  our use of the pharynx for both ingesting as well respiration. this can and has led to choking if we aren't careful.

extremely narrow birth canals on women, leading to tremendous pain. previously a leading cause of death for women was giving birth, improvements in medicine fixed this.

the blind spot in our vision (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_spot_%28vision%29 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_spot_%28vision%29))

 
so you probably want to be careful with this argument, you are indeed unwittingly claiming god is fallible when linking the greatness of god with the human body, that is far from the perfect machine you believe.

When studying the human body, it is undeniable that it is a marvelously designed machine.

Just because things go wrong occasionally does not prove lack of design. Most people in the world have successfully exited from a woman's birth canal, and when you consider that there are over 7 billion of us, I'd say its success rate is remarkably high. Most people manage breathing and eating alright without choking to death the vast majority of the time.

You take for granted the capability. You assume function, that things should work. If evolution is true, and everything is just a random accident, why should anything work?

Even studying any section or component of the body, such as the eye, the ear, the conception, gestation, and birthing of a child, the ability to walk, speech, the brain, the sense of taste, the sense of touch, our ability to feel emotions and thoughts that we know are real things but are invisible things that still somehow take up real estate in our physical, biological brains, and you're not hard-hearted about it, you'll find yourself more amazed than words can describe!

We are truly fearfully and wonderfully made!!

Think about this:

Imagine you were given all the money and supplies you could ever want, and a team of workers to do your bidding, and you were supposed to design out of raw materials, a robotic entity that can do everything that the human body can do...it would be an impossible feat.

Take a look at this paper on bipedal robots. The author says they fall down when slightly pushed, they walk very slowly, and can't take corners without slowing down significantly.

https://www.ihmc.us/users/jpratt/publications/JPratt_HuroSotBook2003.pdf (https://www.ihmc.us/users/jpratt/publications/JPratt_HuroSotBook2003.pdf)

Advanced scientists have worked for years and years, using tons of money and effort, trying to design something that walks on two legs like a person.

Their best efforts are still defeated by something as simple as uneven terrain.

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/2/9/14563036/bipedal-two-legged-robot-cassie-agility-robotics (https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/2/9/14563036/bipedal-two-legged-robot-cassie-agility-robotics)

The design of the human leg and foot, which we take for granted, is so complex and advanced that the smartest people in the world today don't fully understand all its workings.

Even if 30 years from now, humans were able to design something that more closely mimics human movement and doesn't topple at the first nudge, there would still be tons of things that it wouldn't do that the human leg does.

The human leg can feel hot and cold, touch, wind, pain. The human leg can heal itself when cut or scraped. The muscles in the human leg can become stronger and faster with regular use.

If you can't see the beauty and the design, it's because you don't want to see it!

It's not because it's not there!



Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: BabyShark on November 16, 2017, 04:33:55 PM
100 reasons why evolution is stupid

100 Reasons Why Evolution Is STUPID! - Kent Hovind Christian Creationist - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8DDIe_2cHM#)
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: BabyShark on November 16, 2017, 06:45:22 PM
Same seminar, better quality video (less blurry)

100 Reasons Why Evolution is So Stupid! - Dr. Kent Hovind - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp6AkkgD5dI#)
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: BabyShark on November 17, 2017, 12:20:56 PM
Questions your Evolutionist Professors Don't Want You to Ask

1. How did life originate? Evolutionist Professor Paul Davies admitted, “Nobody knows how a mixture of lifeless chemicals spontaneously organized themselves into the first living cell.”1 Andrew Knoll, professor of biology, Harvard, said, “we don’t really know how life originated on this planet”.2 A minimal cell needs several hundred proteins. Even if every atom in the universe were an experiment with all the correct amino acids present for every possible molecular vibration in the supposed evolutionary age of the universe, not even one average-sized functional protein would form. So how did life with hundreds of proteins originate just by chemistry without intelligent design?

2. How did the DNA code originate? The code is a sophisticated language system with letters and words where the meaning of the words is unrelated to the chemical properties of the letters—just as the information on this page is not a product of the chemical properties of the ink (or pixels on a screen). What other coding system has existed without intelligent design? How did the DNA coding system arise without it being created?

3. How could mutations—accidental copying mistakes (DNA ‘letters’ exchanged, deleted or added, genes duplicated, chromosome inversions, etc.)—create the huge volumes of information in the DNA of living things? How could such errors create 3 billion letters of DNA information to change a microbe into a microbiologist? There is information for how to make proteins but also for controlling their use—much like a cookbook contains the ingredients as well as the instructions for how and when to use them. One without the other is useless. See: Meta-information: An impossible conundrum for evolution. Mutations are known for their destructive effects, including over 1,000 human diseases such as hemophilia. Rarely are they even helpful. But how can scrambling existing DNA information create a new biochemical pathway or nano-machines with many components, to make ‘goo-to-you’ evolution possible? E.g., How did a 32-component rotary motor like ATP synthase (which produces the energy currency, ATP, for all life), or robots like kinesin (a ‘postman’ delivering parcels inside cells) originate?

4. Why is natural selection, a principle recognized by creationists, taught as ‘evolution’, as if it explains the origin of the diversity of life? By definition it is a selective process (selecting from already existing information), so is not a creative process. It might explain the survival of the fittest (why certain genes benefit creatures more in certain environments), but not the arrival of the fittest (where the genes and creatures came from in the first place). The death of individuals not adapted to an environment and the survival of those that are suited does not explain the origin of the traits that make an organism adapted to an environment. E.g., how do minor back-and-forth variations in finch beaks explain the origin of beaks or finches? How does natural selection explain goo-to-you evolution?

5. How did new biochemical pathways, which involve multiple enzymes working together in sequence, originate? (This video simply explains the concept of a short biochemical pathway.) Every pathway and nano-machine requires multiple protein/enzyme components to work. How did lucky accidents create even one of the components, let alone 10 or 20 or 30 at the same time, often in a necessary programmed sequence. Evolutionary biochemist Franklin Harold wrote, “we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical or cellular system, only a variety of wishful speculations.”

6. Living things look like they were designed, so how do evolutionists know that they were not designed? Richard Dawkins wrote, “biology is the study of complicated things that have the appearance of having been designed with a purpose.”4 Francis Crick, the co-discoverer of the double helix structure of DNA, wrote, “Biologists must constantly keep in mind that what they see was not designed, but rather evolved.”5 The problem for evolutionists is that living things show too much design. Who objects when an archaeologist says that pottery points to human design? Yet if someone attributes the design in living things to a designer, that is not acceptable. Why should science be restricted to naturalistic causes rather than logical causes?

7. How did multi-cellular life originate? How did cells adapted to individual survival ‘learn’ to cooperate and specialize (including undergoing programmed cell death) to create complex plants and animals?

8. How did sex originate? Asexual reproduction gives up to twice as much reproductive success (‘fitness’) for the same resources as sexual reproduction, so how could the latter ever gain enough advantage to be selected? And how could mere physics and chemistry invent the complementary apparatuses needed at the same time (non-intelligent processes cannot plan for future coordination of male and female organs).

9. Why are the (expected) countless millions of transitional fossils missing? Darwin noted the problem and it still remains. The evolutionary family trees in textbooks are based on imagination, not fossil evidence. Famous Harvard paleontologist (and evolutionist), Stephen Jay Gould, wrote, “The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of paleontology”.6 Other evolutionist fossil experts also acknowledge the problem.

10. How do ‘living fossils’ remain unchanged over supposed hundreds of millions of years, if evolution has changed worms into humans in the same time frame? Professor Gould wrote, “the maintenance of stability within species must be considered as a major evolutionary problem.”

11. How did blind chemistry create mind/ intelligence, meaning, altruism and morality? If everything evolved, and we invented God, as per evolutionary teaching, what purpose or meaning is there to human life? Should students be learning nihilism (life is meaningless) in science classes?

12. Why is evolutionary ‘just-so’ story-telling tolerated? Evolutionists often use flexible story-telling to ‘explain’ observations contrary to evolutionary theory. NAS(USA) member Dr Philip Skell wrote, “Darwinian explanations for such things are often too supple: Natural selection makes humans self-centered and aggressive—except when it makes them altruistic and peaceable. Or natural selection produces virile men who eagerly spread their seed—except when it prefers men who are faithful protectors and providers. When an explanation is so supple that it can explain any behavior, it is difficult to test it experimentally, much less use it as a catalyst for scientific discovery.”

13. Where are the scientific breakthroughs due to evolution? Dr Marc Kirschner, chair of the Department of Systems Biology, Harvard Medical School, stated: “In fact, over the last 100 years, almost all of biology has proceeded independent of evolution, except evolutionary biology itself. Molecular biology, biochemistry, physiology, have not taken evolution into account at all.”9 Dr Skell wrote, “It is our knowledge of how these organisms actually operate, not speculations about how they may have arisen millions of years ago, that is essential to doctors, veterinarians, farmers … .”10 Evolution actually hinders medical discovery.11 Then why do schools and universities teach evolution so dogmatically, stealing time from experimental biology that so benefits humankind?

14. Science involves experimenting to figure out how things work; how they operate. Why is evolution, a theory about history, taught as if it is the same as this operational science? You cannot do experiments, or even observe what happened, in the past. Asked if evolution has been observed, Richard Dawkins said, “Evolution has been observed. It’s just that it hasn’t been observed while it’s happening.”

15. Why is a fundamentally religious idea, a dogmatic belief system that fails to explain the evidence, taught in science classes? Karl Popper, famous philosopher of science, said “Darwinism is not a testable scientific theory, but a metaphysical [religious] research programme ….”13 Michael Ruse, evolutionist science philosopher admitted, “Evolution is a religion. This was true of evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today.”14 If “you can’t teach religion in science classes”, why is evolution taught?

(Taken from https://creation.com/15-questions-for-evolutionists)
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: BabyShark on December 13, 2017, 10:00:23 PM
I see that in spite of numerous believers in the ideology of evolution, there has been a paucity of response to these rational questions listed above.

I just finished watching this video by Dr. Jason Lisle on how scientific discovery in Astronomy shows that the universe cannot be billions of years old. Evolution is not based on science - it's a religion promoted aggressively with ardent fervor.

The Bible says that the heavens declare the glory of God. The Bible has always been right when experts of the day throughout history have contradicted it, and been proven wrong.

Creationists love science. God made the world, the natural laws, the stars, the sun, the earth, the planets, and it's absolutely breath-taking and amazing to learn about what God, in His infinite wisdom and glory, has made!

Take a look!

Dr Jason Lisle - Astronomy Reveals 6,000 Year Old Earth - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEejUyEyhhg#)

Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: BabyShark on December 14, 2017, 12:56:13 PM
Science Confirms Biblical Creation by Dr. Jason Lisle

I highly recommend these for anyone who is interested in science and truth on the vastly important topic of origins! Great presentation. Wonderful speaker.

Topics include Genetics, Information Theory, and Geology

(shorter video)
The Ultimate Proof of Creation - Dr. Jason Lisle - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvRy6AjeyLc#)

(longer video)
Science Confirms Creationism - Dr. Jason Lisle - holytext.org - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba5JN2NDI6A#)
Title: Re: Discussion on the Origins of the Universe, Life, and Mankind
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on December 16, 2017, 09:08:12 AM
I am convinced of the scientific legitimacy of natural selection despite these videos, cheers.