Warcraft II Forum

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: ~ToRa~ on April 25, 2018, 12:55:19 AM

Title: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: ~ToRa~ on April 25, 2018, 12:55:19 AM
Communism is a utopian philosophy, so in theory it is really quite good.  The ultimate goal of communism is to have a society where all resources are shared equally based on need, property is all owned collectively, there is no state, and work is done based on personal desire rather than economic need.  To read Marx and Engels it is difficult to imagine a person that would not want to live in the world they describe as the end Communist state. 
 
It seems that in reality the problem with Communism is that in order to get to the utopic end we must first pass through a time where the state has incredible authority and control (in theory this is necessary in order to set the foundation for the dissolution of private property and the state itself).  So far, no state has actually acheived Marx's described communism because no government has been able or willing to give up that control and power that is required during the interloping period; subsequently, rather than having ever seen a communist society we have only witnessed socialist authoritarian regimes that pass themselves off as communist, which in practice seems to have been an undesirable state of affairs for many.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: BabyShark on April 25, 2018, 01:36:50 AM
Before you can decide whether something is good or bad, you need to decide what defines the terms good and bad, and where that standard comes from.

If personal opinion defines good and bad, then the terms become entirely meaningless. If there is a higher standard of ultimate good or bad outside of human opinion, only then do those terms actually mean anything other than "I like" or "I don't like".
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Tolean on April 25, 2018, 02:15:39 AM
Good question.... Wrong question... As an idea maybe it's not so bad. But how Bs said depends of what is good and what is bad. In my country we had comunism, and at least here it wasn't good.

Osho - No Society Wants You To Become Wise (Music Re-EDIT) - YouTube (https://youtu.be/9gBo-03RmC0#)
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Lambchops on April 25, 2018, 09:21:06 AM
Short answer: it's a nice idea, but it doesn't work.

It doesn't work because humans are basically selfish creatures. In general terms, there is a real advantage to abusing power when in a position of trust, so the people who are untrustworthy have an advantage and are more successful at obtaining/advancing in positions of power, compared to someone who is adhering to altruistic ideals.

Capitalism is an inherantly corrupt system which is why it works better for our inherantly corrupt species.

Sad but true. Not saying I like it that way.  :blank:
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on April 25, 2018, 11:07:31 AM
"Communism is a utopian philosophy"

immediately off to a bad start.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on April 25, 2018, 01:06:53 PM
"Economic equality is socialism, that is to say, a system by which a decent livelihood is secured for all. This does not mean identical wages for one and all, but it does mean sufficient subsistence for one and all to enjoy the inalienable right to the pursuit of happiness. In short, socialism is a society where some have more, some have less, but there are no have nots, a system that could be called nonegalitarian equality. That is the society Marx predicted would follow capitalism because capitalism was not and is not capable of creating a 'decent livelihood' for all. Capitalism gives neither political nor economic equality to the people. The number of have-nots in all capitalist societies is quite high -- and these are both economic and political have-nots."

Vladimir Pozner.


I think this is a decent quote dispelling some liberal myths.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on April 25, 2018, 08:25:59 PM
Good
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on April 26, 2018, 01:52:49 PM
there was a famine not a genocide and it's not relevant to communism.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: ~ToRa~ on April 26, 2018, 01:54:46 PM
^^You can’t write off the Holodomer as propaganda.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on April 26, 2018, 02:16:32 PM
Yes you can

Even the name itself was invented decades later to invite comparisons to the holocaust, as propaganda
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: BabyShark on April 26, 2018, 02:47:06 PM
Some people are not in close contact with reality.

They are not going to be convinced by historical or scientific evidence or logic. That doesn't leave much to work with.

Communism may be a nice idea, like flying unicorns and happily ever after fairy tales, but doesn't really work in the real world.

People are evil and selfish. People look out for themselves. People will step on other people to get ahead. A "let's all just share and get along and be equal" plan simply doesn't work. Someone has to be in charge. And when communists have been in charge historically, freedom and value of human life have disappeared quickly.

There is no perfect system. Even if there were, evil people would not be able to carry it out perfectly.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on April 26, 2018, 04:47:19 PM
Some people are not in close contact with reality.
and you're a good example of one of those people.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on April 26, 2018, 05:21:50 PM
You put someone like JOSEPH STALIN or FIDEL CASTRO in charge and they'll make sure all the people have homes and food and jobs  :-*
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on April 26, 2018, 10:50:56 PM
your only contribution is a wikipedia article and acting like a smug moron.. you're a know-nothing bitch.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Igognito on April 27, 2018, 05:51:27 AM
Without wanting to defend communism...
All the things you are saying against it, do not target communism...

All your arguments are against Authoritarianism!

And many authoritarian regimes of our times have claimed to be communist in order to control the masses. But that does not change the fact that those regimes are authoritarian.
Just try to be precise on what you are talking about...

Personally, I find communism and capitalism to be the opposite sides of the same coin.
In the end, most 'communist' countries collapsed from external factors and external embargos
Countries with communist like systems are like the children that stand on the side and all other children don't play with them.

Cherrios
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on April 27, 2018, 08:27:02 AM
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago[/url] ([url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago[/url])

a bunch of the residential streets around here, people put up these
(http://zoneone.wf7woxluljv.maxcdn-edge.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/lfleddy-e1381113082755.jpeg)
and you can donate books and leave them in there and other people can take them

last week i went by and someone had Gulag Archipelago in there so i took it, and walked 10 feet down the street, and threw it in the trash
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on April 27, 2018, 08:28:19 AM
Without wanting to defend communism...
All the things you are saying against it, do not target communism...

All your arguments are against Authoritarianism!

And many authoritarian regimes of our times have claimed to be communist in order to control the masses. But that does not change the fact that those regimes are authoritarian.
Just try to be precise on what you are talking about...

Personally, I find communism and capitalism to be the opposite sides of the same coin.
In the end, most 'communist' countries collapsed from external factors and external embargos
Countries with communist like systems are like the children that stand on the side and all other children don't play with them.

Cherrios

the united states still has an embargo on cuba, for no reason, except that cuba uses a different economic system that gives all their people health care and housing, which is bad(?)
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on April 27, 2018, 08:55:17 AM
lol the author of gulag archipelago  is a fascist sympathizer and brain damaged guy.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: ~ToRa~ on April 27, 2018, 09:46:29 AM
You put someone like JOSEPH STALIN or FIDEL CASTRO in charge and they'll make sure all the people have homes and food and jobs  :-*

You sir are afflicted with extreme white guilt.
The fact you write off all the warcrimes commited by communist regimes run by the likes of Stalin and Castro as mere “propaganda” really says a lot.

Capitalism is a "bad" system because the laborer is paid less than the worth of what he produces so that the owners can earn money and grow their businesses. It has gotten better through the years because workers are now able to receive health benefits and have certain rights that the business owners cannot violate whenever they wish. One of the greatest criticisms of Karl Marx's views of capitalism was that he viewed it as a still-shot that would never change. In reality, capitalism is a dynamic system that has changed itself over time to remain dominant.

Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on April 27, 2018, 10:30:31 AM
One of the greatest criticisms of Karl Marx's views of capitalism was that he viewed it as a still-shot that would never change.
no he didnt

It has gotten better through the years because workers are now able to receive health benefits and have certain rights that the business owners cannot violate whenever they wish.
in the rich exploiter first world, workers have both made progress and slid backward both over the years depending on the level of angst from the working class, and the level of threat the capitalist class was udner.  since the fall of the soviet union and the subsequent triumphant hegemony of capitalism i think it's gotten worse with the rich being ever richer and the neglected poor falling further behind.  in the global south capitalism just keeps sucking like the vampire it is!

You sir are afflicted with extreme white guilt.
The fact you write off all the warcrimes commited by communist regimes run by the likes of Stalin and Castro as mere “propaganda” really says a lot.
what does being white have to do with anything?

anyway fidel castro was a just leader who imprisoned far fewer people than a country like america imprisoned and who lifted his people up.  stalin was more brutal and i wont defend every choice he made but i do think he did what he felt he needed to do in order to defend the revolution, which was in its infant stages and which under a lesser ruler might have been strangled in the cradle.

the gulag archipelago is a bunch of scary campfire ghost stories, not strictly fact, and one could easily write a sequel to it about the prison industrial complex in the USA today, which exists for far more nefarious purposes than defending socialism and equality, ie it exists to enforce racism and the riches of the fuckers in their private gated communities
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on April 27, 2018, 10:31:24 AM
lmao. i want to know what "war crimes" were committed by Stalin and especially Castro.  ;D ;D ;D ;D and what acknowledging bourgeois propaganda against communist states has to do with "white guilt" HAAAAAAAAHAAA ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: ~ToRa~ on April 27, 2018, 10:36:20 AM
the united states still has an embargo on cuba, for no reason, except that cuba uses a different economic system that gives all their people health care and housing, which is bad(?)

Cuba had become a communist dictatorship once Fidel Castro took over the country. The US government discovered in 1962 that it was providing a military base to the Soviet Union and that a lot of missiles were on the way to get installed there. (Though NATO did have a huge number of missiles in West Europe aimed at the USSR.)
The US government threatened a nuclear attack if those missiles were installed, and slapped greater sanctions on Cuba. The missile carrying ships were turned back, the few already in place were un-installed and sent back, but the sanctions remained since Castro was always anti-America.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on April 27, 2018, 10:36:41 AM
capitalism's continual survival has been because of capitulations to the working class.. better wages and better working conditions at the extreme apprehension of the owning class. next capitulation seems likely to be basic income. it is necessary for the survival of capitalism for the workers to be mostly content with their conditions.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on April 27, 2018, 10:38:41 AM
the united states still has an embargo on cuba, for no reason, except that cuba uses a different economic system that gives all their people health care and housing, which is bad(?)

Cuba had become a communist dictatorship once Fidel Castro took over the country. The US government discovered in 1962 that it was providing a military base to the Soviet Union and that a lot of missiles were on the way to get installed there. (Though NATO did have a huge number of missiles in West Europe aimed at the USSR.)
The US government threatened a nuclear attack if those missiles were installed, and slapped greater sanctions on Cuba. The missile carrying ships were turned back, the few already in place were un-installed and sent back, but the sanctions remained since Castro was always anti-America.


not sure how Cuba defending itself is a bad thing, go fuck yourself dimwit.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: ~ToRa~ on April 27, 2018, 11:08:06 AM
what does being white have to do with anything?

I'm trying to understand your extremist stance on sociology. I've been reading your posts for years now and you seem to feel guilt toward the treatment of minorities in America.

since the fall of the soviet union and the subsequent triumphant hegemony of capitalism i think it's gotten worse with the rich being ever richer and the neglected poor falling further behind.  in the global south capitalism just keeps sucking like the vampire it is!

I wouldn't say it's gotten a lot worse.
The biggest change with the fall of communism in the east would probably be American manufacturers moving there operations overseas to cut costs.

Could there be improvements to the economically displaced here in America, sure. There have been a lot of improvements across the globe since the turn of the 20th century. The fact we debating this topic on a public internet forum is one of the thousands of evidences of this.

America is not free of committing war crimes as evidenced https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guant%C3%A1namo_Bay
However there is no one person in charge here in America. Stalin was someone who ruled Russia for over 30 years.

Stalin was someone who signed a decree to the effect that all Russian soldiers who allowed themselves to be taken prisoner were to be considered traitors and enemies of the state. They and their entire families were subject to exile, imprisonment or execution. Joseph Stalin was therefore, by his own decree, legally subject to execution for treason when his son was taken prisoner.
But hey one man's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter right?
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: ~ToRa~ on April 27, 2018, 11:09:54 AM
the united states still has an embargo on cuba, for no reason, except that cuba uses a different economic system that gives all their people health care and housing, which is bad(?)

Cuba had become a communist dictatorship once Fidel Castro took over the country. The US government discovered in 1962 that it was providing a military base to the Soviet Union and that a lot of missiles were on the way to get installed there. (Though NATO did have a huge number of missiles in West Europe aimed at the USSR.)
The US government threatened a nuclear attack if those missiles were installed, and slapped greater sanctions on Cuba. The missile carrying ships were turned back, the few already in place were un-installed and sent back, but the sanctions remained since Castro was always anti-America.


not sure how Cuba defending itself is a bad thing, go fuck yourself dimwit.

You do realize you are an American citizen and a nuclear attack launched from communist Cuba in the 1960s would have resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of your fellow citizens.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: ~ToRa~ on April 27, 2018, 11:26:24 AM
one could easily write a sequel to it about the prison industrial complex in the USA today, which exists for far more nefarious purposes than defending socialism and equality, ie it exists to enforce racism and the riches of the fuckers in their private gated communities

I wouldn't go so far as to say that's why it exists.
Prison is a business in America.
The average cost of incarcerating an American prisoner varies from state to state. Some states, like Indiana have managed to keep prices low at around $14,000 per inmate. While states like New York pay around $60,000 to keep its citizens behind bars. The costs of running the American prison system is expensive and has become increasingly so despite public opposition.

The fact we have privately owned for profit prisons in America is disturbing. Hopefully in the next 20-30 years as American attitudes change, reforms to the American prison system will come.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on April 27, 2018, 11:27:04 AM
stalins soldiers raped german women breaking martial law.

that was bad; extreme hatred of nazi filth and nazi war crimes in russia broke soviet soldier's minds and they went on a rampage. still unrelated to communism though.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on April 27, 2018, 11:28:47 AM
the united states still has an embargo on cuba, for no reason, except that cuba uses a different economic system that gives all their people health care and housing, which is bad(?)

Cuba had become a communist dictatorship once Fidel Castro took over the country. The US government discovered in 1962 that it was providing a military base to the Soviet Union and that a lot of missiles were on the way to get installed there. (Though NATO did have a huge number of missiles in West Europe aimed at the USSR.)
The US government threatened a nuclear attack if those missiles were installed, and slapped greater sanctions on Cuba. The missile carrying ships were turned back, the few already in place were un-installed and sent back, but the sanctions remained since Castro was always anti-America.


not sure how Cuba defending itself is a bad thing, go fuck yourself dimwit.

You do realize you are an American citizen and a nuclear attack launched from communist Cuba in the 1960s would have resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of your fellow citizens.

you realize Cuba has a right to defend itself? you already acknowledged it yourself, usa had missiles pointed at the ussr far before the cuban incident.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: ~ToRa~ on April 27, 2018, 11:36:47 AM
you realize Cuba has a right to defend itself? you already acknowledged it yourself, usa had missiles pointed at the ussr far before the cuban incident.

We are debating why America put sanctions on Cuba, I'm telling you why that is. Cuba allied itself with Soviet Union who attempted to use Cuba as a military base. Now that the Soviet Union has collapsed and Fidel died we are seeing an ease of sanctions on Cuba.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on April 27, 2018, 11:39:35 AM
Chinese communists murdered 38,7 million people. This number doesn't take into account deaths caused by forced labour.

27 million people were estimated to have died in prisons and labor camps during Mao Zedong's rule.

also famine killed 27 million people between years 1959 and 1963.

Also Chinese Nationalists murdered 10,2 million. The nationalists "ideological sources including traditional Chinese thinking, American progressivism, Marxism, and Russian ethnological thought"

Total so far: 102,9 million

https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE2.HTM (https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE2.HTM)
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/CHINA.TAB1.2.GIF (https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/CHINA.TAB1.2.GIF)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_nationalism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_nationalism)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laogai (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laogai)


the numbers are dubious at best. 100 million dead?  China had one of the largest population growth's in its history during this time span you're talking about. doesn't add up. your death toll numbers are extremely exaggerated.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on April 27, 2018, 11:49:31 AM
you realize Cuba has a right to defend itself? you already acknowledged it yourself, usa had missiles pointed at the ussr far before the cuban incident.

We are debating why America put sanctions on Cuba, I'm telling you why that is. Cuba allied itself with Soviet Union who attempted to use Cuba as a military base. Now that the Soviet Union has collapsed and Fidel died we are seeing an ease of sanctions on Cuba.
no america put sanctions on cuba because the cia failed a billion times to execute castro and they couldn't install a puppet and open up a market to pillage in cuba.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: ~ToRa~ on April 27, 2018, 11:53:47 AM
no america put sanctions on cuba because the cia failed a billion times to execute castro and they couldn't install a puppet and open up a market to pillage in cuba.

You have been reading too many conspiracy novels and watching too much james bond.
Did America try to kill Fidel? Yes.
But they sanctioned Cuba due to it’s support of the Soviet Union who was at war with America. This is an inarguable fact.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on April 27, 2018, 11:54:47 AM
during maos time chinas population stagnated at 400 million


can you get anything accurate? Mao's China had well more than 400 million, China was already over 400 million before the 20th century began.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on April 27, 2018, 11:58:45 AM
no america put sanctions on cuba because the cia failed a billion times to execute castro and they couldn't install a puppet and open up a market to pillage in cuba.

You have been reading too many conspiracy novels and watching too much james bond.
Did America try to kill Fidel? Yes.
But they sanctioned Cuba due to it’s support of the Soviet Union who was at war with America. This is an inarguable fact.
you're dumb. if the sole reason for the embargo was the soviet union, the embargo wouldn't still be in effect today.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 04, 2018, 08:48:48 PM
Communism is the poor mans philosophy. It is a system designed for under-achievers with a poverty stricken mentality. This is why they hate and seek to destroy the people who have wealth, regardless of how they acquired it, out of spite and envy from their own spiritual and intellectual bankruptcy.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 05, 2018, 09:18:16 AM
yes bourgeois parasites are so enviable, the way they use their privilege to destroy society and the earth itself.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 06, 2018, 03:26:28 AM
Success is enviable and the intellectually bankrupt, poverty stricken Communist liberal is green with envy at the success of his percieved enemy. So much so that he will create strawmen and call them "bourgeois parasites" to rationalize and justify his spite and rabid envy. Glittering his generalities of social and biological destruction in an attempt to cover up his social failure with a false sense of righteousness. He's "scared to look in the mirror because that reflection's eternal."
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 06, 2018, 03:41:18 AM
The Communist is a true SJW (both, Social Justice Warrior and Subordinate Jewish Worker).


Quote
Their priveledge to destroy society and the earth itself

What have you and your Communism done to stave off the destruction beside sink to the bottom of the societal barrel?
@marx was right
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on May 06, 2018, 07:38:36 AM
One of the greatest criticisms of Karl Marx's views of capitalism was that he viewed it as a still-shot that would never change.

No he didn't you fucking moron lol
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on May 06, 2018, 07:40:11 AM
"As Allied troops entered and occupied German territory during the later stages of World War II, mass rapes took place both in connection with combat operations and during the subsequent occupation. Most Western scholars agree that the majority of the rapes were committed by Soviet servicemen"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany

Speaking as a woman, this was necessary and justified.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on May 06, 2018, 07:43:02 AM
no america put sanctions on cuba because the cia failed a billion times to execute castro and they couldn't install a puppet and open up a market to pillage in cuba.

You have been reading too many conspiracy novels and watching too much james bond.
Did America try to kill Fidel? Yes.
But they sanctioned Cuba due to it’s support of the Soviet Union who was at war with America. This is an inarguable fact.

The Soviet Union wasn't at war with America you fucking complete moron hahahaha. You are either a complete fucking idiot or just a liar or both.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on May 06, 2018, 07:44:01 AM
Success is enviable and the intellectually bankrupt, poverty stricken Communist liberal is green with envy at the success of his percieved enemy. So much so that he will create strawmen and call them "bourgeois parasites" to rationalize and justify his spite and rabid envy. Glittering his generalities of social and biological destruction in an attempt to cover up his social failure with a false sense of righteousness. He's "scared to look in the mirror because that reflection's eternal."

You talk like a fag.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 06, 2018, 10:13:15 AM
Success is enviable and the intellectually bankrupt, poverty stricken Communist liberal is green with envy at the success of his percieved enemy. So much so that he will create strawmen and call them "bourgeois parasites" to rationalize and justify his spite and rabid envy. Glittering his generalities of social and biological destruction in an attempt to cover up his social failure with a false sense of righteousness. He's "scared to look in the mirror because that reflection's eternal."

this foaming out the mouth retard can't put together a coherent thought. empty buzzwords. "liberal communist" , hahaha.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: ~ToRa~ on May 06, 2018, 10:50:21 AM
The Soviet Union wasn't at war with America you fucking complete moron hahahaha. You are either a complete fucking idiot or just a liar or both.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: ~ToRa~ on May 06, 2018, 11:08:48 AM
Communism is an amoral awful practice that corrodes societies and goes against human nature. Communism has never been accepted by any society willingly it has always come through bloody war and destruction. The Bolsheviks in Russia were few in number (around 20,000) and only came to power because of the illegitimacy of the Tzar. All over the world Communism has merely spread through violence and destruction. In the words of Ronald Reagan a strong anti Communist "Regimes planted by bayonets do not take root" He was speaking about Communist Russia.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: ~ToRa~ on May 06, 2018, 11:44:28 AM
Speaking as a woman, this was necessary and justified.

Trans gendered people aren't classified as women in Cuba or Russia.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on May 06, 2018, 01:00:48 PM
The Soviet Union wasn't at war with America you fucking complete moron hahahaha. You are either a complete fucking idiot or just a liar or both.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War

Do you know what "Cold War" means you absolute moron
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on May 06, 2018, 01:01:30 PM
Communism is an amoral awful practice that corrodes societies and goes against human nature. Communism has never been accepted by any society willingly it has always come through bloody war and destruction. The Bolsheviks in Russia were few in number (around 20,000) and only came to power because of the illegitimacy of the Tzar. All over the world Communism has merely spread through violence and destruction. In the words of Ronald Reagan a strong anti Communist "Regimes planted by bayonets do not take root" He was speaking about Communist Russia.

Moron
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on May 06, 2018, 01:02:32 PM
Speaking as a woman, this was necessary and justified.

Trans gendered people aren't classified as women in Cuba or Russia.

The communist country known as the Russian Federation
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: ~ToRa~ on May 06, 2018, 01:14:27 PM
Cumsavor u would have faced far greater discrimination in the Russian Federation.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 06, 2018, 01:36:10 PM
Communism is an amoral awful practice that corrodes societies and goes against human nature.


lol

Communism has never been accepted by any society willingly


1993: Russians defending the Soviet Union - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjBmtkW3Tl8#)
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 06, 2018, 01:38:01 PM
Ronald Reagan

war criminal, racist and destroyer of worker's rights? are you brain damaged?
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 06, 2018, 01:38:59 PM
Cumsavor u would have faced far greater discrimination in the Russian Federation.
meanwhile this fucking idiot is a Muslim whose heroes are Ben Shitpiro and Ronald Reagan.. i'm dead.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: ~ToRa~ on May 06, 2018, 02:29:09 PM
Do you know what "Cold War" means you absolute moron

America and Russia were in a nuclear arms race which lead America to put warheads near Russia and Russia attempt to place warheads in Cuba.
Cuba was sanctioned due to their support of the Soviet union.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 06, 2018, 02:54:25 PM
You talk like a fag.

But my name isn't @CumSavorer4385
So don't call me by your family names, thank you.

Anyway, read more books, and perhaps you will be able to communicate with some competence.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 06, 2018, 03:01:23 PM
this foaming out the mouth retard can't put together a coherent thought. empty buzzwords. "liberal communist" , hahaha.

Lol "foaming out the mouth". Just because you are part of the illiterate proliteriate masses, with substandard education, doesn't mean my thoughts are incoherent. It only exposes your short-sightedness. Empty buzzwords, really? All leftists are liberals and all Communists are Leftists.

I am willing to bet that we are either on the same financial level, or that you are wealthier than I am. If the latter is the case, give me money, I could use it, spread the wealth, I'll PM you my info and you can Western Union me some cash.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 06, 2018, 03:50:11 PM
Liberals aren't leftists. 
Your thoughts are incoherent because you're confused and have no idea what you're talking about.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on May 06, 2018, 04:07:08 PM
Cumsavor u would have faced far greater discrimination in the Russian Federation.

Which is a right wing capitalist country, not a communist one, moron
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on May 06, 2018, 04:07:53 PM
Do you know what "Cold War" means you absolute moron

America and Russia were in a nuclear arms race which lead America to put warheads near Russia and Russia attempt to place warheads in Cuba.
Cuba was sanctioned due to their support of the Soviet union.

That's not what "at war" means retard.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: ~ToRa~ on May 06, 2018, 04:14:41 PM
^^You are a sad depressed person. Born in a male’s body, deluding yourself thinking society will ever think your a women.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 06, 2018, 09:29:44 PM
Liberals aren't leftists. 
Your thoughts are incoherent because you're confused and have no idea what you're talking about.

I wonder if you really think this while you sit behind your screen or you say this to troll.

Most liberals are leftist, and in your case, based on your SJW ranting, you are a liberal and a leftist. Anyway, where's the money? Share the wealth and put that money where your mouth is. I need it for basic necessities.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 06, 2018, 09:33:31 PM
Of ALL the people in this world, I think that the X-Man should be the last to hurl any sort of judgmental insults at anyone else, although, it does make sense that such a person lacks scruple...
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on May 07, 2018, 02:55:04 PM
Liberals aren't leftists. 
Your thoughts are incoherent because you're confused and have no idea what you're talking about.

I wonder if you really think this while you sit behind your screen or you say this to troll.

Most liberals are leftist, and in your case, based on your SJW ranting, you are a liberal and a leftist. Anyway, where's the money? Share the wealth and put that money where your mouth is. I need it for basic necessities.
This is completely wrong nonsense but "leftist" is a pretty non-specific word so whatever
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 07, 2018, 04:21:20 PM
This is completely wrong nonsense but "leftist" is a pretty non-specific word so whatever


Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 07, 2018, 04:26:01 PM
This is completely wrong nonsense but "leftist" is a pretty non-specific word so whatever

Just to reiterate, since it's safe to assume that most people in forums do not click attachment links:

According to Wikipedia

Quote
Left-wing politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy.[1][2][3][4] It typically involves a concern for those in society whom its adherents perceive as disadvantaged relative to others (prioritarianism) as well as a belief that there are unjustified inequalities that need to be reduced or abolished (by advocating for social justice).[1] The term left-wing can also refer to "the radical, reforming, or socialist section of a political party or system".[5]

The political terms "Left" and "Right" were coined during the French Revolution (1789–1799), referring to the seating arrangement in the Estates General: those who sat on the left generally opposed the monarchy and supported the revolution, including the creation of a republic and secularization,[6] while those on the right were supportive of the traditional institutions of the Old Regime. Use of the term "Left" became more prominent after the restoration of the French monarchy in 1815 when it was applied to the "Independents".[7] The word "wing" was appended to Left and Right in the late 19th century[8] usually with disparaging intent and "left-wing" was applied to those who were unorthodox in their religious or political views.

The term was later applied to a number of movements, especially republicanism during the French Revolution in the 18th century, followed by socialism,[9] communism, anarchism and social democracy in the 19th and 20th centuries.[10] Since then, the term left-wing has been applied to a broad range of movements[11] including civil rights movements, feminist movements, anti-war movements and environmental movements,[12][13] as well as a wide range of parties.[14][15][16] According to author Barry Clark, "[leftists] claim that human development flourishes when individuals engage in cooperative, mutually respectful relations that can thrive only when excessive differences in status, power, and wealth are eliminated".[17]
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 07, 2018, 04:26:19 PM
Liberals aren't leftists. 
Your thoughts are incoherent because you're confused and have no idea what you're talking about.

I wonder if you really think this while you sit behind your screen or you say this to troll.

Most liberals are leftist, and in your case, based on your SJW ranting, you are a liberal and a leftist.

you must be an american. so many are really super confused about politics.
liberals enjoy the status quo,
leftists seek to abolish it.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 07, 2018, 04:33:43 PM
you must be an american. so many are really super confused about politics.
liberals enjoy the status quo,
leftists seek to abolish it.


According to Wikipedia (again)

Quote
Liberalism is a political view based on liberty and equality.

Quote
communism is the philosophical, social, political, and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of the communist society, which is a socioeconomic order structured upon the common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money[3][4] and the state.

Quote
Left-wing politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy

Quote
A communist society is characterized by common ownership of the means of production with free access[1][2] to the articles of consumption and is classless and stateless,[3] implying the end of the exploitation of labour.

Ultimately, all of this is supposed to boil down to a utopian desire of equality on whatever level it manifests in, either ideologically or economically or socially. It's all the same rhetoric regurgitated in a different manner.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 07, 2018, 04:42:23 PM
@marx was right

Being American doesn't prevent me or anyone from attaining common sense and basic knowledge about any subject.
This is typical of the retrograde mind that fails to percieve their own inconsistency and flaws. This is the state of mind of a revolutionary: going infinite revolutions per second, intellectually, i.e. going in circles.

The fact that you had to assert my nationality and imply that my conclusion is defficient based on that, implies that you also believe in some sort of hierarchy, whether consciously or unconsciously.

You enjoy the status quo as well. Without the status quo, you wouldn't be on a forum spewing your degenerate philosophy and believing that Marx was right when he is dead wrong. "Was" is past tense, as is his backwards philosophy, stuck back there.

If you truly were about seeking the "destruction" of the status quo and the machine that drives capitalism, get off of the grid and go live in an actual commune like a filthy hippie. But you won't because you also enjoy the comfort of the status quo, nay, you're probabaly addicted to it, in the same manner you love being on a forum discussing Communism...this must imply as well, that you have some sort of weatlth, and, as I said before, if you are really about the nonsense you spew, Western Union me some money, spread the wealth to the people, and then maybe we might believe you walk the walk.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 07, 2018, 04:55:12 PM
boy your wikipedia citations aren't helping your argument.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 07, 2018, 04:58:59 PM
boy your wikipedia citations aren't helping your argument.


Actually, they are. Although Wikipedia is not the best source of information for many subjects, in this case it gets straight to the point addressing the core goal of the mentioned issues.

Also, this response doesn't help you in anything. The only reason you don't like it is because it renders your assertion and lack of concrete argument invalid and useless and it leaves you exposed, like dog nuts.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 07, 2018, 05:01:44 PM
Being American doesn't prevent me or anyone from attaining common sense and basic knowledge about any subject.

yea it does. it's impossible to take an american liberal like you seriously.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 07, 2018, 05:04:15 PM
boy your wikipedia citations aren't helping your argument.


Actually, they are. Although Wikipedia is not the best source of information for many subjects, in this case it gets straight to the point addressing the core goal of the mentioned issues.

Also, this response doesn't help you in anything. The only reason you don't like it is because it renders your assertion and lack of concrete argument invalid and useless and it leaves you exposed, like dog nuts.

no it doesn't. you're quoting random sentences or half sentences. you see "equality" in the sentence and think that means they're all the same. lol americans. and yea wikipedia is useless when it comes to politics anyways, probably because it's americans that edit the articles. smh.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 07, 2018, 05:06:38 PM
yea it does. it's impossible to take an american liberal like you seriously

Liberal? I don't believe in equality like you do, I do not believe there is such a thing as equality. I believe in Islamic Law.
What's interesting is that, you can't take me seriously but, ironically, you're the one lacking any foundation except for screaming with your keyboard about Communism.

Liberals, Communists, Socialists revolutionaries are all the same to me. Western politricks, incompatible with Shari'ah Law, where you would all stand trial for your crimes against the state.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 07, 2018, 05:08:45 PM
boy your wikipedia citations aren't helping your argument.


Actually, they are. Although Wikipedia is not the best source of information for many subjects, in this case it gets straight to the point addressing the core goal of the mentioned issues.

Also, this response doesn't help you in anything. The only reason you don't like it is because it renders your assertion and lack of concrete argument invalid and useless and it leaves you exposed, like dog nuts.

no it doesn't. you're quoting random sentences or half sentences. you see "equality" in the sentence and think that means they're all the same. lol americans. and yea wikipedia is useless when it comes to politics anyways, probably because it's americans that edit the articles. smh.

All these non-arguments of yours really don't do anything. They do not further the cause of Communism in any way. If this is the result of your brain on Communism, then it would explain the retarded communication.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: easycompany on May 07, 2018, 07:38:48 PM
cold war 2.0 has started
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: ~ToRa~ on May 07, 2018, 08:44:55 PM
What have the communist supporters posted in support of communism? All marx been doing is saying how dumb people who don’t think like him are.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 07, 2018, 09:12:48 PM
two fake muslim sociopaths trying to talk economics ;D
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 07, 2018, 09:16:09 PM
two fake muslim sociopaths trying to talk economics ;D

"Fake muslims"? What does that mean? How are we "fake muslims"? I didn't know praying 5 times a day, fasting for the month of Ramadhaan which is coming up (in shaa Allah) was what "fake Muslims" did....lol "fake".

Coming from the fake Communist.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 07, 2018, 09:46:51 PM
muslim and capitalist ideology = contradiction

muslims corrupted by western liberalism only have these sociopath ideas.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 07, 2018, 09:52:37 PM
muslim and capitalist ideology = contradiction

muslims corrupted by western liberalism only have these sociopath ideas.


It would be nice if you had the ability to elaborate on your asanine opinions instead of just spreading them like mono.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Igognito on May 08, 2018, 09:07:47 AM
muslim and capitalist ideology = contradiction

muslims corrupted by western liberalism only have these sociopath ideas.

That is an actual interesting point to consider.
Can you be a true Muslim believer and a fully pledged capitalist at the same time?

Up to what point the two ideologies converge or clash!

Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on May 08, 2018, 09:52:40 AM
This is completely wrong nonsense but "leftist" is a pretty non-specific word so whatever

Just to reiterate, since it's safe to assume that most people in forums do not click attachment links:

According to Wikipedia

Quote
Left-wing politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy.[1][2][3][4] It typically involves a concern for those in society whom its adherents perceive as disadvantaged relative to others (prioritarianism) as well as a belief that there are unjustified inequalities that need to be reduced or abolished (by advocating for social justice).[1] The term left-wing can also refer to "the radical, reforming, or socialist section of a political party or system".[5]

The political terms "Left" and "Right" were coined during the French Revolution (1789–1799), referring to the seating arrangement in the Estates General: those who sat on the left generally opposed the monarchy and supported the revolution, including the creation of a republic and secularization,[6] while those on the right were supportive of the traditional institutions of the Old Regime. Use of the term "Left" became more prominent after the restoration of the French monarchy in 1815 when it was applied to the "Independents".[7] The word "wing" was appended to Left and Right in the late 19th century[8] usually with disparaging intent and "left-wing" was applied to those who were unorthodox in their religious or political views.

The term was later applied to a number of movements, especially republicanism during the French Revolution in the 18th century, followed by socialism,[9] communism, anarchism and social democracy in the 19th and 20th centuries.[10] Since then, the term left-wing has been applied to a broad range of movements[11] including civil rights movements, feminist movements, anti-war movements and environmental movements,[12][13] as well as a wide range of parties.[14][15][16] According to author Barry Clark, "[leftists] claim that human development flourishes when individuals engage in cooperative, mutually respectful relations that can thrive only when excessive differences in status, power, and wealth are eliminated".[17]
yes thank you for proving what i said, that it is non-specific and can refer to dozens of different things.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 08, 2018, 02:30:49 PM
yes thank you for proving what i said, that it is non-specific and can refer to dozens of different things.

Communism being one of the specific sub-categories. If it proved anything, it was both our points.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 08, 2018, 02:35:19 PM
That is an actual interesting point to consider.
Can you be a true Muslim believer and a fully pledged capitalist at the same time?

Up to what point the two ideologies converge or clash!

Up to the point where any transaction involving money is either based on interest or the selling of things prohibited by the Shari'ah.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 08, 2018, 02:48:24 PM
That is an actual interesting point to consider.
Can you be a true Muslim believer and a fully pledged capitalist at the same time?

Up to what point the two ideologies converge or clash!

Capitalism is defined as
Quote
an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state

There is nothing wrong, as far as I know, with privatizing a certain product and exporting said product in Islam so long as the transaction is not based on usary/interest, and the product itself is not prohibited in Islam.

We have restrictions as to what we can trade in, and the trade market in Islam is heavily regulated (within religious context). This doesn't mean all Muslims abide by religious law, since there is no single and unifying government body to really enforce the Law for the Muslims (which would be awesome for us), so the Muslim engages in technically illegal activity on a daily basis, which may not go punished in this life, but will be held accountable in the next. And this is one of the means that the believers maintain a regulated system, being conscious that all that they do is monitored, 24/7 ("Who watches the Whatchers?", Allah). We also have restrictions as to how we can trade. There are ettiquettes not only within the market, but prior to entering and exiting the market. There are etiquettes for the traveler and for the immigrant and so on.

The clash comes in when usary/interest is present, when prohibited substances are traded (such as any intoxicant as per the Shari'ah i.e. alcohol and narcotics, cigarettes, pornography, pork and whatever else falls under religious prohibition). Aside from this, natural resources, food, clothes, building materials and so on are not necisserily controlled by the state but by the seller (private owner). What the State obliges from the Muslims is Zakat (which is a tax that must be paid by Muslims within a certain financial bracket yearly), this money in turn goes back to the Muslims who do not meet the reuirments to pay Zakat, the poor and the needy in general.

The non-Muslim, living in a Muslim land is only obliged to pay the Jizya tax which is a tax obligatory on military aged dhimmi (non-Muslim in Muslim land) males, women, children, the elderly, the sick and so on are exempt from this tax.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 08, 2018, 02:59:47 PM
That is an actual interesting point to consider.
Can you be a true Muslim believer and a fully pledged capitalist at the same time?

Up to what point the two ideologies converge or clash

On another point, that you mentioned

Only Allah knows who is a true believer. A Muslim can still be a true believer and commit crimes, he is a Muslim criminal. In Islam the deviant group that asks the same question you did and makes takfeer (excommunicates, making a Muslims blood permissible to spill) are known as the Khawaarij (ISIS/Daesh, Al-Qaeda, Taliban, Muslim Brotherhood etc)...

If a person believes in Allah (alone) as the only deity worthy of worship and believes that Muhammad is His Final Messenger to mankind and testifies to this, he is a true believer, whatever comes after this is between Allah and the Muslim (and consequently anyone the Muslim may have cheated or oppressed).

So yes, a person can be a true believer in Allah and His Messenger and still be engaged in corrupted activities ...that person can also repent and abstain from his crimes against himself and others and Allah may forgive him because Allah is the (Al-Ghafoor) Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (Ar-Raheem)...the same cannot be said about mankind tho, so...

Also, Allah will aide a person, Muslim or non-Muslim, so long as they are just and truthful, if they are opposite to this, Allah disgraces them, and the supplication of the oppressed, Muslim or non-Muslim, is answered by Allah, even if the oppressor is Muslim.


But for this to really make any sense, you have to know about Tawheed as was understood by the Companions of Allah's Messenger.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 08, 2018, 03:11:00 PM
two fake muslim sociopaths trying to talk economics ;D

See, this is the same kind of mentality that ISIS have which allows them to go around killing Muslims and anyone else.

MarxWasRight would probably make an excellent ISIS soldier...he already follows a terrorist philosophy and has posted violent comments about overthrowing people he deems not in accordance to his world view, and has shared images indicating violence towards others...the kind of simpleton that would go around beheading Muslims and civilians for ISIS...right now he is just at murdering capitalists simply because he's poor and they're not...in the name of Communism.

MarxWasRight is the WRONG type of person to hold any radical ideologies.
All radicals are the wrong type of people to hold any extremist ideologies.
All extremist ideologies are the wrong ideologies to adopt.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 08, 2018, 04:55:41 PM
an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state
that definition is trash because businessmen and the government are in cahoots in capitalism , always.  for instance there are businessmen in the white house that push corporate agenda. it has been shown that public opinion does not hold any sway in pushing policy where the interests of the wealthy corporate owners does very much hold sway. this shows clearly that capitalism is not at all democratic.


There is nothing wrong, as far as I know, with privatizing a certain product and exporting said product in Islam so long as the transaction is not based on usary/interest, and the product itself is not prohibited in Islam.

and usury is heavily encouraged in capitalism. many people today are debtors.


See, this is the same kind of mentality that ISIS have which allows them to go around killing Muslims and anyone else.

MarxWasRight would probably make an excellent ISIS soldier...he already follows a terrorist philosophy and has posted violent comments about overthrowing people he deems not in accordance to his world view, and has shared images indicating violence towards others...the kind of simpleton that would go around beheading Muslims and civilians for ISIS...right now he is just at murdering capitalists simply because he's poor and they're not...in the name of Communism.

MarxWasRight is the WRONG type of person to hold any radical ideologies.
All radicals are the wrong type of people to hold any extremist ideologies.
All extremist ideologies are the wrong ideologies to adopt.

you spend too much effort trolling only to fail so miserably at it. this is the dumbest crap you've written yet.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 08, 2018, 05:01:15 PM
@marx was right

That was effortless because it was based on you and your posts, I didn't have to exert myself in typing that. Do not give yourself undeserved credit.

Usary may be encourage but it is not a principle or obligatory in Capitalist society.
And simply because there are corrupt forms of government making deals with business men does not mean that this is the foundation of capitalism, it is the result of corrupted individuals in power, capitalism is a mere venue for them to excersize and abuse that power...and wealth.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 08, 2018, 05:02:15 PM
@marx was right

What country do you live in? You type like a suburban American.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Igognito on May 09, 2018, 10:26:49 AM
an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state

Lets refine a bit your Capitalism definition...
Taken by wikipedia:

Capitalism is an economic system based upon private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit.

State is not related with Capitalism.

And as u pointed out in an abstract way capitalism is perfectly fine with Islam! Actually, Islam is much closer to Capitalism than what Christianity is!

And what u refer that Muslims want is a Caliphate with a Caliph. Historically, the "last" somewhat accepted caliphate was from the Ottoman Empire. After the dissolve of the empire no Muslim nation/power managed to set a caliph that would be widely accepted.

And here we come to the next point, Islam is inherently authoritarian. Islam defines a Supreme Leader setting it as an authoritarian ideology.
ps1: Catholicism also has a Supreme Leader (Pope) and is similarly authoritarian to Islam. Notice that I'm mentioning Catholicism and not Christianity because there are other branches of Christianity that are not so authoritarian.
ps2: To the best of my knowledge only 1 zero authoritarian ideology exists: Anarchism. In general we tend to call authoritarian a system that has 1 supreme leader, or very small leadership that has supreme authority (examples: Stalin's communist party; China's communist party).

Economically speaking:
So Islam, up to the point of "religious restrictions" is completely compatible with capitalism. Actually, more than what Christianity is which promotes the abolish of personal property and promotes its donation to the needy.

Politically speaking:
Islam is authoritarian, and inherently does not go well with Democracy (especially with the Shia Muslims). Sunni Muslims are authoritarian again but from a more wide population base (I would put them close to Catholics in that aspect choose in a representative way your supreme leader).

Do we agree up to here?

Next point, can we have Capitalism and True Democracy together?

Okay, this is difficult to answer. The moment you have Capitalism you automatically create entities that have more power than others. These entities, lets use the term Oligarchs, end up controlling the Democratic system. This results in having ochlocracy (mob ruling) which is what we experience pretty often in modern times.

Okay, I'm taking it far I know... But what I wanted to point out is that in these discussions people are mixing different ideologies (common problem).

Economic Ideologies:
Capitalism
Communism
Socialism
Political Ideologies:
Anarchism
Democracy
Authoritarian Systems (Kingdoms, Dictatorships, Oligarchies, etc)
Religious Ideologies:
Catholicism
Other Christianity
Islam

For many people from the USA: Democracy = Capitalism; Christianity = Catholicism; Socialism = Communism; Communism implies Dictatorship etc...

So you get funny discussions with questions like: Communism is good or bad? But they are actually asking whether a specific communist regime of Russia was good or bad?
Because if they asked specifically whether the Communist Ideology (as theoretically is defined) is good or bad? The answer would be obvious :-P

The problem is whether good ideologies are actually applicable.
Take for example: Anarchism. It is the best ideologically political system... But it is simply Utopian and not applicable. The closest we can get to it is a Democratic Socialist country such as Sweden. Many philosophers/sociologists claim that the next step which should be doable is to go to a Democratic Communist state but we are not there yet.

Ohh and where religion fits to all these? Well you cant have an authoritarian religion to be dominant if you want a truly Democratic Socialist country because you would have to many "authoritarian supporters = rightist". To return to our example Sweden is not Catholic but Lutheran (Protestant) that mean no Pope, no Religious authority (more or less).

I hope my post helps clarify why these discussions lead to nowhere usually :-D
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 09, 2018, 10:55:44 AM
@Igognito

The rule of the Muslim nation (Ummah) is supposed to be under a Khilafah, which does not exist today, and will only re-appear when the Mahdi is appointed Khalifah over the Muslims near the approach of the Final Hour.

As for the leadership, again, yea, one ruler, or head of state. I wouldn't use the word "Supreme" though, sounds off (and because the Shi'a use that term to refer to their leaders).

Democracy and Islam are incompatible. As for the Shi'a, then they are a different case and Shi'aism should not be associated with Islam as they are two opposing ideologies (particularly the main body of Shi'ah, the 12ers). Shi'aism is incompatible with much of anything in Islam or the world around it.

Again, the Khalifah is technically the only leader over the Muslims under a Khilafah (there is no comparison to any other system, be it Christian/Catholic, or other Western trends). The Khilafah is based solely on the Qur'aan and Sunnah. Authoritarianism is a Western ideological construct, and the perception does not go in accordance to the Shari'ah meaning of Islamic rulership, and from the Muslim perspective, the world is viewed through an Islamic lens, not any other. At least, this is how it should be, but I am sure that you will find Muslims who would rather view the world from the lenses of those who they love outside of the religion.

So, no, we do not agree.

This is exactly why Communist countries are atheistic and Capitalist countries are secular in nature. The religion applies restrictions. Although, of the two, Communism is openly opposed to religion period, which makes it totally incompatible with Islam and any other religious body. Capitalism on the other hand is a double edged sword, and it cuts depending on who wields it. So it can be used by sincere and just people (religious or otherwise) and it can be used by corrupted and criminal individuals (including those who ascribe themselves to any given religion or otherwise).

As for the Catholics, the Pope is not comparable with the Khalifah of the Muslims. The Khalifah has actual political, legislative and religious authority, the Pope doesn't. The Pope is merely a living idol for the Catholics to worship besides Allah. He is the Supreme living leade for the Catholics, as for the Muslims, the Khalifah is a man appointed the position and responsibility of leadership of an entire nation, he is not worshipped, he is not elavated to sainthood or any godhood (much like the Shi'ah and their Ayatoilets). The Shi'ah worship their leaders as gods on earth as per their religious doctrines, they are polytheists, like the Catholics.

Like I said, this would all make sense if you actually understood the religion of Islam based on the Qur'an and Sunnah as was understood by the Companions of the Prophet. Then religious and economic etiquette would make sense, until that happens, you will continue to draw these comparisons that do not work, simply beause I know enough about my religion and theology in general. Along with some of these inane political philosophies that, despite the details surrounding the main point (which act as a smoke screen to blind you from the end-game), are fairly simple and based on nothing but the ideas of men.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 09, 2018, 12:13:40 PM
The point of all of this, is that Communism is as bad as Capitalism, if not, worse.

Using the pretext of human rights and social justice to claim that Communism, an Autharitarian system, as was pointed out, is a viable option and means of support for the poor and disenfranchised is a retarded, ill-logical disposition to be caught in. A system where the means of production are in the hands of an authoritarian state, who decide how, and when to distribute goods is determined is exactly why Capitalism became so popular. People do not want the government controlling their income, and whatever wealth they made from their own hard work. And before the argument of taxes comes into the discussion, taxes do not control how much you are allowed to earn, taxes are charged according to the ammount you make in order to keep the system running, which is a good thing, otherwise, we'd live in a hellhole. The government regulates markets, but not what you are allowed to earn...a poor man can become rich, a rich man can easily become a bum. It all depends on how you utilize the financial system to meet your financial requirements. You either make good decisions or you make bad ones, that somewhat contribute to financial gain )not taking into consideration other factors aside from personal responsbility).

If anything, Communism leads to fascism, which is fine, if you want that, but to advocate it and then call for the death of people simply because of their income bracket requires a special kind of stupidity. Communism is the opposite if freedom, Capitalism is too much freedom. They are two extremes on a political spectrum, where the only one capable of being balanced (with the proper foundation) is Capitalism, which is why it works. Communism is pure extremism, there is no room for moderation.

And soon marxwasright will come along, and respond with some dribble that lacks any substance, screaming "Communism is the Best!" With his keyboard, like a pure autist.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 09, 2018, 12:21:16 PM
I don't see Communism being generally hostile to religion, it's a false idea. For instance Kerala, an Indian state with a Marxist government, is largely made up of Hindus, Muslims and Christians with little sectarianism.

It's when religion is used by the capitalist class to control the working class through propaganda via the church is when it becomes problematic.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 09, 2018, 12:27:22 PM
I don't see Communism being generally hostile to religion, it's a false idea. For instance Kerala, an Indian state with a Marxist government, is largely made up of Hindus, Muslims and Christians with little sectarianism.

It's when religion is used by the capitalist class to control the working class through propaganda via the church is when it becomes problematic.

Communism is an atheistic system of governance.

Marx said
Quote
The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.

This is the foundation of your user name. Marx was an atheist. And his words are not the words of a man who supports religion, or freedom of religion.

Marx was also an ignoramus when it came to religion, he clearly does not understand the purpose of religion, he viewed it in such a simplistic manner, like the people he was criticising. He was as ignorant as the people who use religion as an opium (this hasn't changed much today).
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Igognito on May 09, 2018, 12:32:11 PM
@3bdushakur, you are wrong on the following:
As for the Catholics, the Pope is not comparable with the Khalifah of the Muslims. The Khalifah has actual political, legislative and religious authority, the Pope doesn't. The Pope is merely a living idol for the Catholics to worship besides Allah. He is the Supreme living leade for the Catholics, as for the Muslims, the Khalifah is a man appointed the position and responsibility of leadership of an entire nation, he is not worshipped, he is not elavated to sainthood or any godhood (much like the Shi'ah and their Ayatoilets). The Shi'ah worship their leaders as gods on earth as per their religious doctrines, they are polytheists, like the Catholics.

Yes, the Pope normally had full political, legislative, religious and military authority. Slowly the Pope was forced to give up to secular power and eventually democracy was reinstated and removed all except his religious authorities. The Pope until 1563 in practice was an Emperor having authority over multiple nations (and even over Empires, such as the Portuguese and Spanish).

So we do agree that Islam and Democracy are incompatible ;-)
I do not see why we disagree with the Caliph? I think we say the same thing with different words... You place a Caliph per state while the normal definition has 1 Caliph for all Muslims.
About Shia and Sunni, I'm not an expert I only know that Shia are more radical and want a Caliph that is directly connected to Muhammad and the Sunni allow a leader that is appointed by representatives. Anyhow, we can put out Shia from the discussion.

Well Communism as an ideology doesn't necessarily removes religion. Marx did stated that religion should not be involved in politics and economics, and also he personally was against religion but that doesn't mean that Communism cant co-exist with a religion like: Buddhism or Confucianism or Traditional Chinese religion even with some sects of Hinduism. Those religions have nothing to do with authoritarianism and could co-exist with Communism. (ps: Buddhism, Confucianism normally are only philosophies but are refereed as religions because the promote inner spiritual elevation)
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Igognito on May 09, 2018, 12:37:25 PM
@3bdushakur, again you do the same confusion... You are speaking about a specific example that used Communism as a pretext but was not truly communism.

Stalin's Communism was an authoritarian Communism system. The problems that appeared where purely authoritarian and not related with the economic system.
If nothing else the economic system managed to elevate a completely destroyed Russia to an empire at the time of Lenin. Not that I'm in favor of Lenin, but going to communism did save Russia at that moment.

Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 09, 2018, 12:42:26 PM
@3bdushakur, you are wrong on the following:
As for the Catholics, the Pope is not comparable with the Khalifah of the Muslims. The Khalifah has actual political, legislative and religious authority, the Pope doesn't. The Pope is merely a living idol for the Catholics to worship besides Allah. He is the Supreme living leade for the Catholics, as for the Muslims, the Khalifah is a man appointed the position and responsibility of leadership of an entire nation, he is not worshipped, he is not elavated to sainthood or any godhood (much like the Shi'ah and their Ayatoilets). The Shi'ah worship their leaders as gods on earth as per their religious doctrines, they are polytheists, like the Catholics.

Yes, the Pope normally had full political, legislative, religious and military authority. Slowly the Pope was forced to give up to secular power and eventually democracy was reinstated and removed all except his religious authorities. The Pope until 1563 in practice was an Emperor having authority over multiple nations (and even over Empires, such as the Portuguese and Spanish).

So we do agree that Islam and Democracy are incompatible ;-)
I do not see why we disagree with the Caliph? I think we say the same thing with different words... You place a Caliph per state while the normal definition has 1 Caliph for all Muslims.
About Shia and Sunni, I'm not an expert I only know that Shia are more radical and want a Caliph that is directly connected to Muhammad and the Sunni allow a leader that is appointed by representatives. Anyhow, we can put out Shia from the discussion.

Well Communism as an ideology doesn't necessarily removes religion. Marx did stated that religion should not be involved in politics and economics, and also he personally was against religion but that doesn't mean that Communism cant co-exist with a religion like: Buddhism or Confucianism or Traditional Chinese religion even with some sects of Hinduism. Those religions have nothing to do with authoritarianism and could co-exist with Communism. (ps: Buddhism, Confucianism normally are only philosophies but are refereed as religions because the promote inner spiritual elevation)

The Pope has lost his power, so they are not comparable, since there is no Khilafah to compare him to. The Pope has minimal power, but even religiously, he cannot do a thing about apostates of Catholocism (such as myself). If there were a Khalifah, the apostate of Islam is treated exactly how a traitor of any other nation is treated (with a chance to repent and give up dessertion), execution. Simple as that. If the Mahdi where to appear today and establish the Khilafah and Muslims apostated, no government or human "rights" groups would have an authority over it to prevent the law from being established.

As for the Shi'ah, they worship their leaders, they worship the dead, and have insane rituals. The Shi'ah are a rejectionist sect, who reject the fundamental principles of Islam while cloaking themselves with a warped Islamic identity, it began from political disagreements, and evolved into absolute heresy in general. Today, Shi'aism is a heretical religion.

Islam is a complete system with legislation for the religious and political spectrum. Islam cannot be removed from politics and politics cannot be removed from Islam. Shari'ah is a Legal system, and Communist ideology undermines it with its rhetoric, so it is totally incompatible.

The "religions" you mentioned are corrupt and polytheistic by nature, they are not really religions anyway, they are philosophies, which is why it can fuse with Communist philosophy. "Inner spiritual elevation" doesn't make a religion, otherwise the Raelians, Scientologists, the Rajneesh and so forth would be legitimized, and they are not. Cults and religions are two different things.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 09, 2018, 12:44:19 PM
@3bdushakur, again you do the same confusion... You are speaking about a specific example that used Communism as a pretext but was not truly communism.

Stalin's Communism was an authoritarian Communism system. The problems that appeared where purely authoritarian and not related with the economic system.
If nothing else the economic system managed to elevate a completely destroyed Russia to an empire at the time of Lenin. Not that I'm in favor of Lenin, but going to communism did save Russia at that moment.



I can accept that. But Communism isn't only an economic philosophy like Capitalism, it goes into religion and seeks to undermine it. Capitalism, although often secular, does not promote secularism, it is purely economic.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 09, 2018, 12:46:58 PM
The point of all of this, is that Communism is as bad as Capitalism, if not, worse.
I don't understand. You're saying capitalism is bad now, after several posts of defending capitalists?

The point of all of this, is that Communism is as bad as Capitalism, if not, worse.
Using the pretext of human rights and social justice to claim that Communism, an Autharitarian system, as was pointed out, is a viable option and means of support for the poor and disenfranchised is a retarded, ill-logical disposition to be caught in.[/quote]

no it's not "retarded" , it's a movement that was literally born out of the disenfranchisement of the working class. every piece of communist literature shows this. there's nothing inherently authoritarian about communism, like there is with capitalism. under capitalism we are subservient to capital and arbitrary hierarchies. the Earth's wealth in controlled by a top 0.01% of the population and they have influenced society for their own interests, not most of the people. that's the ultimate authoritarianism.

If anything, Communism leads to fascism,

it leads to fascism in the sense that when the ruling elites are threatened by the working class they will use fascism to suppress them. when communism took hold in russia and  communist movements in other countries were gaining popularity, in germany for instance,  franz von papen and his ilk allowed hitler to gain power. hitler was no threat to the ruling class, he was a useful idiot for them.
fascism is capitalism is decay.

which is fine, if you want that, but to advocate it and then call for the death of people simply because of their income bracket requires a special kind of stupidity.

wealth distribution and expropriation of excessive luxuries isn't akin to murder you stupid shit.


Capitalism is the opposite of freedom, Communism is freedom for the working class.

just fixed for accuracy, you're obviously confused about terms. i mean you didn't even know what liberalism is.

They are two extremes on a political spectrum, where the only one capable of being balanced (with the proper foundation) is Capitalism, which is why it works.

except capitalism doesn't work. rising poverty, rising homelessness , the complete degradation of hyper-capitalist dystopia america is evidence of this.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 09, 2018, 12:55:57 PM
I don't see Communism being generally hostile to religion, it's a false idea. For instance Kerala, an Indian state with a Marxist government, is largely made up of Hindus, Muslims and Christians with little sectarianism.

It's when religion is used by the capitalist class to control the working class through propaganda via the church is when it becomes problematic.

Communism is an atheistic system of governance.

Marx said
Quote
The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.

This is the foundation of your user name. Marx was an atheist. And his words are not the words of a man who supports religion, or freedom of religion.

Marx was also an ignoramus when it came to religion, he clearly does not understand the purpose of religion, he viewed it in such a simplistic manner, like the people he was criticising. He was as ignorant as the people who use religion as an opium (this hasn't changed much today).

you just ignored what i wrote, copied a Marx quote you got from wikipedia and had zero answer to that quote (probably because you didn't understand any of it) while calling him ignorant. lol. you're a total waste of time.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 09, 2018, 01:04:50 PM
I don't understand. You're saying capitalism is bad now, after several posts of defending capitalists?

Because Capitalism can comprise of good and evil. I never denied the corruption of Capitalism but you totally blind yourself to the fact that not all Capitalists fall into this narrow vision you have. You want to execute anyone with wealth you deem to be more than necessary, regardless of how they acquired it, be it honest labor or crime. You lump everyone into the same warped view. You aso think about this about anyone who spends more than what you think a person should pay for any item. It doesn't matter if a person inhereted money, they can spend what was left for them as they please. If I inhereted 10 million dollars, and decide to buy a 10k dollar pen, in a Capitalist country, I can do that, in your Communist vision, I'd be shot.

And this is exactly why it's retarded. Because the disenfranchised are usually uneducated and emotional. They cannot control themselves enough to really analyze a situation, they just react out of a warped sense of vigilantism.

There is nothing inherently authoritarian about Capitalism, except that with more money, you can do a lot more, the only authoritarianism I see in Capitalism is authority over my own wealth more or less, than in your Communist vision.

Outside of Capitalism you are subjected to hierarchies such as ignorance and intellect, the two are not equal, neither are men or women, the political system stems from the oppositism of the biological and natural system. It is not arbitrary, and capital has always existed, and we have been subjected to that since the first man. Foodstuff is capital, crops and so forth, gold, silver, it is part of human nature to engage in a system of economics and trade.

You mentioned arbitrary hierarchies in Capitalism and then go on to basically insinuate that Fascism is the result of the RULING ELITE when they feel threatened by the working class. So there is an Elite in a Communist society, and they control the workers. If Communists ruling Elites adopt fascism as a means to supress the general masses, how is it Capitalism in decay?

YOU said we should kill the wealthy. I was refering to your asinine posts. And who is going to distribute my wealth, you? The state? Me? Who determines whether I have to distribute my wealth? Why should I give you my money? If I have 10 million and you have 10 cents, why should I be obligated to distribute it with you, if I worked my ass off for it? What makes you worthy of even recieving any of it? If I want to distribute my wealth, it is called charity and I can give as much as I please, there is no standard.

You fixed the terms according to the way you want to see them even if they are incorrect.

Capitalism has proven itself to work, if Communism was as ideal as you want to believe, we would not be in a Capitalist world, especially not this long. How many Communist countries exist today? China, North Korea....Cuba?

@marx was right
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 09, 2018, 01:06:27 PM
I don't see Communism being generally hostile to religion, it's a false idea. For instance Kerala, an Indian state with a Marxist government, is largely made up of Hindus, Muslims and Christians with little sectarianism.

It's when religion is used by the capitalist class to control the working class through propaganda via the church is when it becomes problematic.

Communism is an atheistic system of governance.

Marx said
Quote
The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.

This is the foundation of your user name. Marx was an atheist. And his words are not the words of a man who supports religion, or freedom of religion.

Marx was also an ignoramus when it came to religion, he clearly does not understand the purpose of religion, he viewed it in such a simplistic manner, like the people he was criticising. He was as ignorant as the people who use religion as an opium (this hasn't changed much today).

you just ignored what i wrote, copied a Marx quote you got from wikipedia and had zero answer to that quote (probably because you didn't understand any of it) while calling him ignorant. lol. you're a total waste of time.


I posted that before you even responded, fool

Besides, you are not the only one who's read the Communist Manfesto, and other works of Communist/Socialist/Anarchist literature. Prior to becoming Muslim I was involved in Communist/Anarcho groups in California. I have been to meetings, gatherings, parties and so forth. We were not coffee shop revolutionaries, typing in forums. We had mainly Latin-American Communists and Anarchists, I was there because I'm Latino and the people I knew were part of these groups.

Western politics is a circus. This whole network was merely a pissing contest. And these people had the worst characteristics, definitely not fit for leadership over people. No one in any of these movements are mentally capable or mature to handle the responsibility, which is why Communism has failed when it tried.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 09, 2018, 01:21:33 PM
I don't see Communism being generally hostile to religion, it's a false idea. For instance Kerala, an Indian state with a Marxist government, is largely made up of Hindus, Muslims and Christians with little sectarianism.

It's when religion is used by the capitalist class to control the working class through propaganda via the church is when it becomes problematic.

Communism is an atheistic system of governance.

Marx said
Quote
The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.

This is the foundation of your user name. Marx was an atheist. And his words are not the words of a man who supports religion, or freedom of religion.

Marx was also an ignoramus when it came to religion, he clearly does not understand the purpose of religion, he viewed it in such a simplistic manner, like the people he was criticising. He was as ignorant as the people who use religion as an opium (this hasn't changed much today).

you just ignored what i wrote, copied a Marx quote you got from wikipedia and had zero answer to that quote (probably because you didn't understand any of it) while calling him ignorant. lol. you're a total waste of time.


I posted that before you even responded, fool

Besides, you are not the only one who's read the Communist Manfesto, and other works of Communist/Socialist/Anarchist literature. Prior to becoming Muslim I was involved in Communist/Anarcho groups in California. I have been to meetings, gatherings, parties and so forth. We were not coffee shop revolutionaries, typing in forums. We had mainly Latin-American Communists and Anarchists, I was there because I'm Latino and the people I knew were part of these groups.

Western politics is a circus. This whole network was merely a pissing contest. And these people had the worst characteristics, definitely not fit for leadership over people. No one in any of these movements are mentally capable or mature to handle the responsibility, which is why Communism has failed when it tried.

Everyone wants to be Ché Guevarra

But you are all Cliché Guevarras.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Igognito on May 09, 2018, 01:24:42 PM
Setting up the ground with simple sentences...
We agree on the following:

Islam + Capitalism are compatible within the religious restrictions.
Islam + Democracy are completely incompatible.

Not that it is important, but can we agree on: Pope was comparable with the Caliph but is not anymore.

We need to clarify better why
Islam + Communism are incompatible.

We need to open Christianity and Communism (this is complicated and to be addressed later)
Polytheistic religions are not necessary inferior from Monotheistic. Hinduism is one of the most advance religions (if not the most advance) and possibly the oldest thriving religion in the world (historians are not certain if Judaism or Hinduism is older). None of the religions I mentioned I would call it corrupt. All of them are pretty big religions (being in the 10 biggest).

To return to the topic in hand: Islam + Communism are incompatible.
Reason: by my personal opinion the problem is that normally Communism is the opposite of authoritarian (ignore the applications of it).
Normally in communism there are no rulers or special social classes.

Islam, Christianity and other religions have the: Clergy which by definition is a pyramid structured authoritarian system.
I believe this is the hidden reason why Communism cant work with most societies.

We should first abolish the authoritarian systems and society and only after that we can apply communism. (Personally, I'm in complete favor of removing authoritarian systems, but I'm still against on introducing communism but that is another discussion.)

To return to the main topic: Is communism good or bad?
I believe that Communism can only be applied on a society with 0 authoritarianism and where all are at equal ground. It is based on Utopian principles and Communism is bound to fail as would Anarchism. But in a small society (such as a family) communism is the ideal system to work with!

The small society develops better if they do not compete against them but instead collaborate; all are richer if everything is owned by everyone and not having individual wealth in a small society: This is also the basis of Nash Equilibrium which by all irony is used in Capitalism.

Simple example: When you where a kid, did your family owned a car? Was it your fathers? or your mothers? or maybe was it from/for both? Maybe, when you got a licence was it your car too... That is communism, everything is owned by everyone. We do not have individual properties... The idea is great just not applicable in large society.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Igognito on May 09, 2018, 01:25:10 PM
Lol it took 3-4 times for the forum to allow me post that :-D
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 09, 2018, 01:50:20 PM
Setting up the ground with simple sentences...
We agree on the following:

Islam + Capitalism are compatible within the religious restrictions.
Islam + Democracy are completely incompatible.

Not that it is important, but can we agree on: Pope was comparable with the Caliph but is not anymore.

We need to clarify better why
Islam + Communism are incompatible.

We need to open Christianity and Communism (this is complicated and to be addressed later)
Polytheistic religions are not necessary inferior from Monotheistic. Hinduism is one of the most advance religions (if not the most advance) and possibly the oldest thriving religion in the world (historians are not certain if Judaism or Hinduism is older). None of the religions I mentioned I would call it corrupt. All of them are pretty big religions (being in the 10 biggest).

To return to the topic in hand: Islam + Communism are incompatible.
Reason: by my personal opinion the problem is that normally Communism is the opposite of authoritarian (ignore the applications of it).
Normally in communism there are no rulers or special social classes.

Islam, Christianity and other religions have the: Clergy which by definition is a pyramid structured authoritarian system.
I believe this is the hidden reason why Communism cant work with most societies.

We should first abolish the authoritarian systems and society and only after that we can apply communism. (Personally, I'm in complete favor of removing authoritarian systems, but I'm still against on introducing communism but that is another discussion.)

To return to the main topic: Is communism good or bad?
I believe that Communism can only be applied on a society with 0 authoritarianism and where all are at equal ground. It is based on Utopian principles and Communism is bound to fail as would Anarchism. But in a small society (such as a family) communism is the ideal system to work with!

The small society develops better if they do not compete against them but instead collaborate; all are richer if everything is owned by everyone and not having individual wealth in a small society: This is also the basis of Nash Equilibrium which by all irony is used in Capitalism.

Simple example: When you where a kid, did your family owned a car? Was it your fathers? or your mothers? or maybe was it from/for both? Maybe, when you got a licence was it your car too... That is communism, everything is owned by everyone. We do not have individual properties... The idea is great just not applicable in large society.


What is it about Hinduism that makes you think it's advanced? The worship of rats, menses blood, phallic worship, ancestor worship, saint worship, feeding idols, worshipping cows as god, dancing around idols...? I grew up in a predominantly Hindu neighborhood, and I have been to Hindu and Buddhist temples, and I have a friend that left Hinduism and filled me in on some of their practices....so, what is advanced about any of this?

As for its age, it is irrelevant. The above mentioned is blatant corruption of understanding and sensibility. Regardles on what list was made by whoever to rank the worlds top religions. It doesn't matter. The Bhagavad Gita, which is the only book I recall reading regarding Hinduism, was definitely an interesting story, but that's as far as it goes.

We do not have clergy in Islam. Each masjid has an Imaam who leads the prayer and teaches the people (or is supposed to). In the house, the man is the imaam, the imaam is a leader of a congregation or a family. The Khalifah can be imaam or can follow an imaam. There is no clergy in Islam...again, it would make sense if you knew about Islam and understood it as it was understood by the Companions of the Prophet, otherwise you apply incompatible terminology which only confuses your understanding and prevents you from clear vision.

Also, by definition, clergy is not a pyramid structuredauthoritarian system. Clergy is defined as
Quote
the body of all people ordained for religious duties, especially in the Christian Church.
"all marriages were to be solemnized by the clergy"

This does not exist in Islam.

Getting rid of an authoritarian system will only plunge society in chaos. The hierarchy is needed otherwise you give power to the ignorant and foolish. Leadership is needed. Some people are leaders and some are followers, everyone is not fit or equipped for the role of leader, especially of men. This is why revolutions fail and spread corruption and chaos. Because they seek to overthrow the ruling party with the same pretext, and it's all pretext.

If you got rid of authority, you would instantly regret it when you realize that not everyone has honorable intentions, and the wolves come out to hunt freely. And if you are from among the followers, unable to protect yourself or your family, then you become prey. You would be plunged back into the age of nomads and pillagers.

And this is where the utopian fantasy of Communism comes into play. Until Ghengis Khan 10,0 and his technologically advance army come and murder and rape you all with no shred of remorse. Taking your system and burning it to the ground.

That little fantasy will not save you from the ravenous nature of a corrupted army of nomads. Sure, it sounds great if you deny your own nature. But imagine, if Communists and Capitalists become corrupt within their own systems, and those withing religious institutions also become corrupt and justify their crimes in the name of religion, what would happen without a system of authoritarianism?

Forget your little quaint family analogy, let's look at it like this:

We abolish Capitalism and authoritarian government (the legitimate ones because you can't control criminals), no more borders, munincipalities, police, army, right? Cool, now, ISIS begins to import itself into open territory while you are setting up your little commune hoping everyone is your friend. Then the MS-13 come in, and the Zetas, and the Paramilatary Militias, and the Right Wing Militias, and rapists and murderers, thieves and all sorts of vile scum begin to pollute youre sweet little vision of Communist Utopia because, "To hell with Authoritarianism".

You can never achieve that, ever, no ideology will save you from the savage nature of man. Look at the indigenous peoples of South America, lived in commune like settings until the Spanish came and what did they do? Slice of their noses and ears to make jewlery, regardless of their system, the point is the factor of human nature.

Everybody owns everything until the mightiest monopolizes it, builds a strong army of the wicked and the sheep are slaughtered for even looking the wrong way.

It's fun to be an idealist because it requires less work than to look at the world realistically. It's like a security blanket, I know,
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 10, 2018, 01:48:02 PM
capitalism isn't efficient and doesn't work for the majority of humanity. i don't advocate the killing of wealthy people, like your ideas are directly responsible for poverty. i advocate the efficient reallocation of wealth distribution, creating a society of people with their basic needs met. this won't happen in capitalism because there is no efficient allocation of wealth in capitalism, it's all puddled at the top of the social stratum. it moves from the bottom to the top, opposite of trickle down theory. it stays at the top where occasional crumbs will leak through.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 10, 2018, 10:55:31 PM
capitalism isn't efficient and doesn't work for the majority of humanity. i don't advocate the killing of wealthy people, like your ideas are directly responsible for poverty. i advocate the efficient reallocation of wealth distribution, creating a society of people with their basic needs met. this won't happen in capitalism because there is no efficient allocation of wealth in capitalism, it's all puddled at the top of the social stratum. it moves from the bottom to the top, opposite of trickle down theory. it stays at the top where occasional crumbs will leak through.

I don't care about Capitalism or Communism, Shari'ah Law is superior to any Western Ideology. Islam is superior to all other religions. Shari'ah Law addresses the issues, you are concerned with and beyond, it regulates the excesses of Capitalist culture.

Allah Says:
Quote
It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it). [9:33]

Allah has already nipped your arguments in the bud:
Quote
And We send not the Messengers except as giver of glad tidings and warners. But those who disbelieve, dispute with false argument, in order to refute the truth thereby. And they treat My Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), and that with which they are warned, as jest and mockery![18:56]

This is the statement of Truth and everything else is falsehood, be it Communism, Capitalism, Anarchy, Socialism, Democracy, Plutocracy, Authocracy, Monarchy, etc etc etc.

The only legitimate Law is the Law of Allah.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Igognito on May 11, 2018, 08:32:02 AM
The only legitimate Law is the Law of Allah.

(Assuming that Allah exists) Which was written down and interpreted by people...

You made a lot of statements from my last post and the discussion is losing its track.
For that reason I will try to ignore the statements and only focus on the topic at hand: Is communism good or bad?

As usual, a thread with a topic like that cant reach to a conclusion.
Lets say the only conclusion we have reached is that Communism is less applicable to large societies.

ps: For other topics opened I will use other more appropriate threads.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 11, 2018, 08:40:06 AM
capitalism isn't efficient and doesn't work for the majority of humanity. i don't advocate the killing of wealthy people, like your ideas are directly responsible for poverty. i advocate the efficient reallocation of wealth distribution, creating a society of people with their basic needs met. this won't happen in capitalism because there is no efficient allocation of wealth in capitalism, it's all puddled at the top of the social stratum. it moves from the bottom to the top, opposite of trickle down theory. it stays at the top where occasional crumbs will leak through.

I don't care about Capitalism or Communism, Shari'ah Law is superior to any Western Ideology. Islam is superior to all other religions. Shari'ah Law addresses the issues, you are concerned with and beyond, it regulates the excesses of Capitalist culture.

Allah Says:
Quote
It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it). [9:33]

Allah has already nipped your arguments in the bud:
Quote
And We send not the Messengers except as giver of glad tidings and warners. But those who disbelieve, dispute with false argument, in order to refute the truth thereby. And they treat My Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), and that with which they are warned, as jest and mockery![18:56]

This is the statement of Truth and everything else is falsehood, be it Communism, Capitalism, Anarchy, Socialism, Democracy, Plutocracy, Authocracy, Monarchy, etc etc etc.

The only legitimate Law is the Law of Allah.


oh shariah law regulates capitalist excesses does it? hmm, it doesn't seem to do that very well in Abu Dhabi or for the monarchy in Saudi Arabia
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 11, 2018, 10:13:19 AM
The only legitimate Law is the Law of Allah.

(Assuming that Allah exists) Which was written down and interpreted by people...

You made a lot of statements from my last post and the discussion is losing its track.
For that reason I will try to ignore the statements and only focus on the topic at hand: Is communism good or bad?

As usual, a thread with a topic like that cant reach to a conclusion.
Lets say the only conclusion we have reached is that Communism is less applicable to large societies.

ps: For other topics opened I will use other more appropriate threads.


"Assuming"? This is a positiong held onto by the minority.

Anyway, the reason I wrote that was as a conclusion. Communism is obsolete and inferior.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 11, 2018, 10:23:28 AM
@marx was right

The Monarchy system is not a part of the Shari'ah, that is a bad argument. Shari'ah rulership is based on a Khilafah under a Khalifah, that is the true Islamic leadership under Shari'ah.

The Monarchy is the result of Arab tribalism, I am talking about religious rule, not Arab rule. The first Khilafah was under Allah's Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم and the last was under the companion 'Ali, from the four Rightly guided Khulafah (Abu Bakr As-Saddiq, Umar Ibnul Khattab, Uthman bin Affan and then Ali, may Allah be pleased with them). Since these four men, there has not been a Khulafah on the face of the earth. It has been Monarchs and Sultans and though they were and are legitimate Rulers, these positions are not legislated by the Shari'ah.

As related, in the hasan hadeeth found in Jami at-Tirmidhi no. 2226:
Quote
Sa'eed bin Jumhan narrated: "Safinah narrated to me, he said: 'The Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وسلم said: "Al-Khilafah will be in my Ummah for thirty years, then there will be monarchy after that."' Then Safinah said to me: 'Count the Khilafah of Abu Bakr,' then he said: 'Count the Khilafah of 'Umar and the Khilafah of 'Uthman.' Then he said to me: 'Count the Khilafah of 'Ali."' He said: "So we found that they add up to thirty years." Sa'eed said: "I said to him: 'Banu Umaiyyah claim that the Khilafah is among them.' He said: 'Banu Az-Zarqa' lie, rather they are a monarchy, among the worst of monarchies."'

This does not exist today, and will not exist until the Mahdi appears (which will be close to the Final Hour, the time of which only Allah Knows), anyone today claiming to be the Khalifah of the Muslims (such as the kharijites from among the present day terrorist groups) are merely criminal imposters. The Ottoman Empire was a Sultinate, and prior to that it was systems of Monarchy. Today that system of Monarchs continues along with Presidents, Prime Ministers and so forth. All titles foreign to Islam and Shari'ah (but the rulership, regardless of how corrupt it may be, is still legitimate and must be obeyed).

Abu Dhabi and Sa'udiyyah are bad examples. The reason Sa'udiyyah is percieved as the main Muslim country (out of all of them) is because that is the land of Makkah and Madinah, regardless of the rulership and the system they have established, they promote and fund Islamic schools, and the "King"'s actual title is "The Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques".

Their Monarch system does not remove them from Islam nor does it open the door to revolt and overthrow. They are a legitimate kingdom. Same as in America, the Muslim is obligated to follow the Law of the Land so long as the Law does not directly prevent them from practicing their religion, and as far as I'm concerned, America does not oppress Muslims by preventing them from practicing their religion. We are free to pray, fast, give charity, make Hajj, and teach the religion, build masaajid (mosques) and grow our beards and wear hijabs and niqabs and generally look like Muslims. So those Muslims who go out and protest and revolt and march and hold demonstrations are the worst examples to use.

The Palestinians lost their land to Israel by the deeds of their own doing and for straying from the religion and its correct understanding . And because of this, a corrupt nation has usurped the land. Still, protesting and screaming like animals on the street will not change a thing which makes all that effort pointless and only tarnishes their religion. And besides, those protesters are usually lead by Ikwaanis (people who follow the terrorist methodology of The Muslim Brotherhood...that was established by Sayyid Qutb who adopted Marxist ideology). This doesn't mean all those Muslims are terrorists, it just means that many of them are ignoramuses that lack knowledge of their religion and blindly follow people from their wayward emotions.

The reason I mention this was incase this was brought up as an argument at any point.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 11, 2018, 12:31:18 PM
israeli apologist too... this guy is a piece of work.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 11, 2018, 01:08:01 PM
israeli apologist too... this guy is a piece of work.

Where did you get that from?!

I stated a fact based on the conditions of the Muslims, not in defence of Israel, are you this dense?

The Jews have upon them the Wrath of Allah, and their learned men know this.
As per the hadeeth:
Quote
Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Zaid bin 'Amr bin Nufail went to Sham, inquiring about a true religion to follow. He met a Jewish religious scholar and asked him about their religion. He said, "I intend to embrace your religion, so tell me some thing about it." The Jew said, "You will not embrace our religion unless you receive your share of Allah's Anger." Zaid said, "'I do not run except from Allah's Anger, and I will never bear a bit of it if I have the power to avoid it. Can you tell me of some other religion?" He said, "I do not know any other religion except the Hanif." Zaid enquired, "What is Hanif?" He said, "Hanif is the religion of (the prophet) Abraham who was neither a Jew nor a Christian, and he used to worship None but Allah (Alone)" Then Zaid went out and met a Christian religious scholar and told him the same as before. The Christian said, "You will not embrace our religion unless you get a share of Allah's Curse." Zaid replied, "I do not run except from Allah's Curse, and I will never bear any of Allah's Curse and His Anger if I have the power to avoid them. Will you tell me of some other religion?" He replied, "I do not know any other religion except Hanif." Zaid enquired, "What is Hanif?" He replied, Hanif is the religion of (the prophet) Abraham who was neither a Jew nor a Christian and he used to worship None but Allah (Alone)" When Zaid heard their Statement about (the religion of) Abraham, he left that place, and when he came out, he raised both his hands and said, "O Allah! I make You my Witness that I am on the religion of Abraham." - Bukhaari 2837

And the Jews know, as per the ex-Rabbi Abdullah ibnus Salam:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_ibn_Salam
But he was from the Jews Allah has guided, as for the rest of them, then their fate has been established.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 11, 2018, 01:41:24 PM
>The Palestinians lost their land to Israel by the deeds of their own doing and for straying from the religion and its correct understanding

how isn't this a defense of israel you stupid fuck? As if it's Palestinians fault british imperialists carved out a region for a jewish diaspora that eventually removed them from their homes, or that america today uses israel for influence over the middle east while turning a blind eye to israeli crimes against Palestinians.
absolutely nothing that is happening to Palestinians today is their fault. It's the fault of the right-wing lunatic dictatorship of america and israel.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 11, 2018, 03:39:17 PM
>The Palestinians lost their land to Israel by the deeds of their own doing and for straying from the religion and its correct understanding

how isn't this a defense of israel you stupid fuck? As if it's Palestinians fault british imperialists carved out a region for a jewish diaspora that eventually removed them from their homes, or that america today uses israel for influence over the middle east while turning a blind eye to israeli crimes against Palestinians.
absolutely nothing that is happening to Palestinians today is their fault. It's the fault of the right-wing lunatic dictatorship of america and israel.

And all that was the fault of the Palestinians straying from the religion of Islam.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 11, 2018, 04:18:09 PM
>The Palestinians lost their land to Israel by the deeds of their own doing and for straying from the religion and its correct understanding

how isn't this a defense of israel you stupid fuck? As if it's Palestinians fault british imperialists carved out a region for a jewish diaspora that eventually removed them from their homes, or that america today uses israel for influence over the middle east while turning a blind eye to israeli crimes against Palestinians.
absolutely nothing that is happening to Palestinians today is their fault. It's the fault of the right-wing lunatic dictatorship of america and israel.

This is the same self-destructive attitude the Muslims picked up from the disbelievers, as Allah says:
Quote
Whatever of good reaches you, is from Allah, but whatever of evil befalls you, is from yourself. And We have sent you (O Muhammad) as a Messenger to mankind, and Allah is Sufficient as a Witness. [4:79]

Instead of taking account for yourselves and your flaws, you would rather blame the world around you for your current disposition. It's easier and lazier to blame the world around you while failing to blame yourselves for your own corruption. You see the splinter in the eye of another while turning your blind eye, to the timber stuck in it.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 11, 2018, 04:42:35 PM
@marx was right

Shaykh Muhammad Sa'eed Raslaan (may Allaah preserve him) said:

Quote
When will Palestine be returned to us?

When a Muslim in any place in the earth asks, ”When will Palestine be returned to us?” The answer is, ”If you return to Allaah (in correct belief, righteous action, obedience etc.), Palestine will be returned to you.”  This answer is derived from the statement of the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم reported by Imaam Ahmad and Abu Dawood on the authority of Thawbaan رضي الله عنه that the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم said:

”The nations will soon call one another against you, just as people call one another to eat from a qas'a (i.e. a large plate of food). They asked: ‘’O Messenger of Allaah, is it because we will be few in number at that time? He (sallal-laahu-alayhi-wasallam) replied: No, you will be many in number at that time, but you will be Ghuthaa –(i.e. like the froth scum on the water).  And Allaah will remove from the hearts of the enemies the fear they had for you and will place wahn in your hearts. They said: What is Wahn O Messenger of Allaah? He said: Love of the worldly life and having hatred for death.’’ [Reported by Ahmad 21897 and Abu Daawood 4297. [Declared authentic by  Imaam Albaanee in As-saheehah number: 8183]

If we return to Allaah (in correct belief, righteous actions, obedience etc.), He will returned to us what has been taken away away from us. If we remain distant from Allaah (i.e. distant from the correct creed, righteous actions, obedience etc.), we will lose what is in our hands. And indeed Allaah (The Blessed and Most High) has made this judgement in His Tremendous Book, and He (The Most High) said:

[وَإِذْ تَأَذَّنَ رَبُّكُمْ لَئِن شَكَرْتُمْ لَأَزِيدَنَّكُمْ ۖ وَلَئِن كَفَرْتُمْ إِنَّ عَذَابِي لَشَدِيدٌ ]
”And (remember) when your Lord proclaimed: “If you give thanks (by accepting Faith and worshipping none but Allah), I will give you more (of My Blessings), but if you are thankless, verily! My Punishment is indeed severe.” [Soorah Ibraaheem: Ayah: 7]

He (The Blessed and Most High) clarified that being thankless for blessings bestowed (on us) will cause it to cease…. Our scholars say, ”Blessings are a prey and being thankful (for it) is the thing that makes (it) remain.

[Source:Mataa ta-oodu Ilaynaa Falasteen: page 7-8]

You do not know the affairs of the Muslims or the Palestinians, stop pretending to know and care by blaming others. The Muslims are to blame, and the Jews fate has been decreed by Allah they will abide in the Fire of Hell in the next life, except those that Allah wills to guide. Their final destiny is at the hands of the Muslims, as per the hadeeth found Al-Bukhaari (2926):
Quote
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

And this will be when the Final Hour approaches, so it is not the time for this to unfold, this is what has been decreed by Allah and only He Knows when this will manifest.

Oh and before the nonsensical argument of "Anti-Semitism" rears it's illogical head, Islam is the largest Semitic religion in the world and Arabs make up over 90% of the worlds Semites, so that old and tired Jewish argument will not work here.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 11, 2018, 05:51:10 PM
i don't care about your mythologies, we're talking about reality which you're detached from.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 11, 2018, 07:16:23 PM
i don't care about your mythologies, we're talking about reality which you're detached from.

Again with your non-arguments.
Just because you are ignorant of a matter, doesn't mean that your ignorance is the final say.
Based on your corrupted world view.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 11, 2018, 07:38:11 PM
you just wrote paragraphs of non-arguments you muppet
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 11, 2018, 07:39:39 PM
you just wrote paragraphs of non-arguments you muppet

Projecting again? Shame on you.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: ~ToRa~ on May 11, 2018, 07:40:25 PM
^^Are you an atheist marx?
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 11, 2018, 09:52:56 PM
i'm atheist but not a big hater of religion.
certainly religious people become a problem when they use it as a justification for oppression like this pathetic dweeb 3bdushakur uses it to justify israeli crimes on Palestinians.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: easycompany on May 11, 2018, 10:33:14 PM
its that dick who needs a god ohh everyone hate the satan
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: easycompany on May 11, 2018, 10:42:57 PM
101 damltion night  kinda floppy
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 12, 2018, 10:30:23 PM
i'm atheist but not a big hater of religion.
certainly religious people become a problem when they use it as a justification for oppression like this pathetic dweeb 3bdushakur uses it to justify israeli crimes on Palestinians.

You sure love to cherry pick. I wonder if this is why you are abssessed with the working class, all that cherry picking and no state benefits.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 13, 2018, 10:42:05 AM
there's no cherries to be picked, your entire posts are rotten. you're a filthy mongrel and toxic cancer on this earth , your ideology has no place in modernity.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 13, 2018, 12:17:56 PM
there's no cherries to be picked, your entire posts are rotten. you're a filthy mongrel and toxic cancer on this earth , your ideology has no place in modernity.

Hahaha keep crying

That's the reason Communism was erradicated
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Igognito on May 14, 2018, 06:36:17 AM
From Wikipedia (just happened to bump on it):

Comparison with communism and fascist ideologies
In 2004, speaking to the Acton Institute on the problems of "secular democracy", Cardinal George Pell drew a parallel between Islam and communism: "Islam may provide in the 21st century, the attraction that communism provided in the 20th, both for those that are alienated and embittered on the one hand and for those who seek order or justice on the other."[247] Pell also agrees in another speech that its capacity for far-reaching renovation is severely limited.[248] An Australian Islamist spokesman, Keysar Trad, responded to the criticism: "Communism is a godless system, a system that in fact persecutes faith".[249] Geert Wilders, a controversial Dutch member of parliament and leader of the Party for Freedom, has also compared Islam to fascism and communism.[250]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Islam#Comparison_with_communism_and_fascist_ideologies
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 14, 2018, 08:07:13 AM
From Wikipedia (just happened to bump on it):

Comparison with communism and fascist ideologies
In 2004, speaking to the Acton Institute on the problems of "secular democracy", Cardinal George Pell drew a parallel between Islam and communism: "Islam may provide in the 21st century, the attraction that communism provided in the 20th, both for those that are alienated and embittered on the one hand and for those who seek order or justice on the other."[247] Pell also agrees in another speech that its capacity for far-reaching renovation is severely limited.[248] An Australian Islamist spokesman, Keysar Trad, responded to the criticism: "Communism is a godless system, a system that in fact persecutes faith".[249] Geert Wilders, a controversial Dutch member of parliament and leader of the Party for Freedom, has also compared Islam to fascism and communism.[250]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Islam#Comparison_with_communism_and_fascist_ideologies

What is the point of this post?
Who are these people?
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 14, 2018, 08:26:19 AM
3bdushakur is a fascist brokebrain
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 14, 2018, 08:55:40 AM
3bdushakur is a fascist brokebrain

If I was a fascist leader Marx, you'd be the first to be imprisoned. I wouldn't execute you right away.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 14, 2018, 08:56:33 AM
3bdushakur is a fascist brokebrain

And, weren't you the one who basically justified the Commie leaders fascism when the workers go out of control like, a few posts back?
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 14, 2018, 09:05:50 AM
workers are the only important people involved in growing the economy.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 14, 2018, 09:08:06 AM
workers are the only important people involved in growing the economy.

yea, nevermind the people who privide the work to enable the workers.......employers and employees. If you have no employers and managers, what the hell are the workers going to do? Workers aren't always intellectuals, as you yourself have proven.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 14, 2018, 10:39:19 AM
managers are workers. owners aren't.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 14, 2018, 11:44:29 AM
managers are workers. owners aren't.

Yes. Owners are exlabor. Owners work as well, to maintain their system in order for workers to have a job. If a man owns a factory he needs workers and workers need a man that owns a factory where they can work in. A manager manages the workers and the owner maintains the whole show. Many people who own business worked hard to become owners. So regardless they have to work. I've never met a business owner that didnt have to work to maintain what he owns.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 14, 2018, 12:16:46 PM
wrong.
1. owners aren't workers,

2. workers don't need owners, owners need workers. workers need the means of production.

 
 
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 14, 2018, 12:19:01 PM
wrong.
1. owners aren't workers,

2. workers don't need owners, owners need workers. workers need the means of production.

 
 

So you don't think ownership (of a business or any operation that requires maintenance) requires any kind of work, whatsoever? I don't know guy, I own art supplies and technical pens, and I have to work to prepare the paper, to clean and maintain my pens, to gild the art, to frame, to design the necessary certificates and so on. The issue I have is that, in my business (yes, I have my own business which I own) I do not have certain skills I need, such as web design and coding, and social media maintenance, so I am looking to hire workers. The thing is, without the work I have already put into all of this, I would not have a job to offer a web-designer, coder and social media manager. I couldn't be bothered to do any of that, I am not interested. I don't understand how it is that I own a business but somehow I don't have to work to maintain it. Much less how you apply that to a massive company. I am only one person running a small art operation, but then you have factory owners business owners that have to hire qualified people to maintain aspects they can't. And they have to work to maintain the whole thing running smoothly. If the owner doesn't maintain his business, he will lose it quickly and maintenance require work.

And what if a persons is in need of a job and someone just happens to own a company that needs workers?

You really don't see the mutual relationship?
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 14, 2018, 12:26:36 PM
Workers need jobs, jobs are managed by appointed qualified people at the scrutiny of whoever owns the company or job, be it state or private.

@marx was right

This is common sense.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 14, 2018, 12:29:38 PM
small business isn't the same as large corporations where shareholders siphon off all the wealth workers create for the company to themselves.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 14, 2018, 12:53:29 PM
You were talking about owners, not shareholders. A shareholder owns shares of a company. Workers can also be shareowners if they buy into it.
Do ALL shareholders siphon off the wealth? Buying a stock doesn't mean you don't work. How many people go to work and use that money to invest in the stock market. I mean, it's called being financially savvy.

If anything, why do the workers in your vision not buy stocks and shares in order to increase their income and profit off of their labor and the companys success on a more practical level?

@marx was right

Shareholding doesn't mean you are not part of the working class.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 14, 2018, 01:18:39 PM
shareholders are the owners. smh.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 14, 2018, 01:55:35 PM
and the majority of americans live pay check to pay check, i wonder how you think they can become stockholders in major corporations, rofl.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: easycompany on May 14, 2018, 04:47:25 PM
well if u can get enuff together u can make a pool.that is true i won be able to doit single..but 4 or 5 singles now where talking... gl hf
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 14, 2018, 05:53:28 PM
and the majority of americans live pay check to pay check, i wonder how you think they can become stockholders in major corporations, rofl.

The point is that they are not barred from purchasing if they want to.

The blatant corruption is beside the point. The poverty issue is beside the point because these are not the results of the ideology, they are the result of the people implementing it.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 14, 2018, 05:54:48 PM
>The point is that they are not barred from purchasing if they want to


they are, by their social status.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 14, 2018, 05:56:42 PM
@marx was right

Blaming corruption on Capitalism would be like blaming the KGB on Communism, or censorship on communism, or the Gulag.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 14, 2018, 05:57:46 PM
>The point is that they are not barred from purchasing if they want to


they are, by their social status.

Not inherently. That is the result of mismanagement.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 14, 2018, 05:59:25 PM
@marx was right
I mean, you want be in a forced labor camp? Is that the "workers" heaven? You want te KGB watching your every move, listening to your every word? You want the state to be worshipped?
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 14, 2018, 06:01:52 PM
>The point is that they are not barred from purchasing if they want to


they are, by their social status.

Also, social statuses can change at any given moment. There is room for possiblity. Your status can always go up, and if your already up ther, it can come crashing down.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 14, 2018, 06:09:55 PM
@marx was right

Communism offers a dream of a utopia with the end result being what? Labor camps (the workers wet dream). A monotnous existence. Everyone would probably be wearing one outfit in one color, obliged to sing wthe state anthem, not allowed to think, especially about revolting against the state or else, family members start to disappear for opposition or as a warning from the state. You'd probably be eating a regimented prison like meal. You have to read what you are given. All the people of your society would all be at the whim of the states leadership who are the owners of Communism Inc. And they have death squads for you if you have a problem with that.

At least, this is the percieved result of Communist dictatorship with no counter example. China has concentration camps of people they deem as subversive, so, according to the people who practice Falun Gong, they are swept up by agents and sent to indoctrination/labor camps where their organs are harvested.

Adolf Hitlers Nationalist/Socialist party (Nazis) are world renowned for their concetration camp retreats. Israel as well (oh, the irony).
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 14, 2018, 06:26:31 PM
@marx was right

Blaming corruption on Capitalism would be like blaming the KGB on Communism, or censorship on communism, or the Gulag.

gulag was just a simple prison system, more humane than the american penal system today. true talk.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 14, 2018, 06:27:16 PM
>The point is that they are not barred from purchasing if they want to


they are, by their social status.

Also, social statuses can change at any given moment. There is room for possiblity. Your status can always go up, and if your already up ther, it can come crashing down.


nah social mobility is so rare as to be non-existent in capitalism.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 14, 2018, 06:27:41 PM
@marx was right

Blaming corruption on Capitalism would be like blaming the KGB on Communism, or censorship on communism, or the Gulag.

gulag was just a simple prison system, more humane than the american penal system today. true talk.

Oh, really? Please provide some sort of proof for that statement.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 14, 2018, 06:27:58 PM
@marx was right

Communism offers a dream of a utopia with the end result being what?

didn't i already explain this? several times over in fact.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 14, 2018, 06:28:27 PM
>The point is that they are not barred from purchasing if they want to


they are, by their social status.

Also, social statuses can change at any given moment. There is room for possiblity. Your status can always go up, and if your already up ther, it can come crashing down.


nah social mobility is so rare as to be non-existent in capitalism.

Guy, we hear about it all the time, how nobodies become sombodies, especially in this day and age with internet.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 14, 2018, 06:29:28 PM
@marx was right

Communism offers a dream of a utopia with the end result being what?

didn't i already explain this? several times over in fact.


It was rhetorical quetion.

I stated what Communism offers, a labor system, a workers dream. You obviously ignored everything that came after that rhetorical question.

Cherry farms definitely cherry pickers.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 14, 2018, 06:30:21 PM
" Whereas the capitalist prison system is used as a means for revengeful punishment in the sense of the Calvinists punishing sin, the Socialist Government uses the detention system as a means of correction and improvement, a means of raising the value and standard of the individual corrected."

Good quote
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 14, 2018, 06:30:57 PM
>The point is that they are not barred from purchasing if they want to


they are, by their social status.

Also, social statuses can change at any given moment. There is room for possiblity. Your status can always go up, and if your already up ther, it can come crashing down.


nah social mobility is so rare as to be non-existent in capitalism.

Guy, we hear about it all the time, how nobodies become sombodies, especially in this day and age with internet.


you're delusional. give me some examples of these people.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 14, 2018, 06:31:22 PM
" Whereas the capitalist prison system is used as a means for revengeful punishment in the sense of the Calvinists punishing sin, the Socialist Government uses the detention system as a means of correction and improvement, a means of raising the value and standard of the individual corrected."

Good quote

Quote by who? And a quote is not proof of anything.

You said the Gulag was better and more humane in a system that disregards mans humanity. How?
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 14, 2018, 06:32:49 PM
>The point is that they are not barred from purchasing if they want to


they are, by their social status.

Also, social statuses can change at any given moment. There is room for possiblity. Your status can always go up, and if your already up ther, it can come crashing down.

I don't follow these people, all I know is that kids today start making money and get famous for nothing, or for being retarded. You see it on IG, snapchat and the like. Man, are you in America or what?

nah social mobility is so rare as to be non-existent in capitalism.

Guy, we hear about it all the time, how nobodies become sombodies, especially in this day and age with internet.


you're delusional. give me some examples of these people.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 14, 2018, 06:36:22 PM
@marx was right

Have you not seen or been to America? Social media has made it so that any fool can become rich and famous. The internet is a useful tool.

I have a feeling you live in America. Nobody follows the NBA outside of the States (haha).
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 14, 2018, 07:09:09 PM
your example is some dumbfuck youtuber who get their 15 minutes of fame? loooooooool.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: ~ToRa~ on May 14, 2018, 07:14:21 PM
Marx is just a disgruntled poor person that blames the system for his lack of economic mobility.
The guy has deluded himself to believe communism will come one day to save him.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 14, 2018, 07:20:54 PM
your example is some dumbfuck youtuber who get their 15 minutes of fame? loooooooool.

Exactly. That is the perfect example of how status in A Capitalist system is not fixed. No matter how much you consider him to be a "dumb fuck", he has surpassed you on the financial ladder, which begs the question: how dumb is he really? While he climbs that social ladder with youtube, you decide to remain in the labor force. Times are changing and the workers are being replaced by machines, sucks but, that's the reality. You either partake or get left behind.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 14, 2018, 07:22:44 PM
Now please, I am going to go play a round or two of PUBG Mobile on my iPad while I am visiting America. Then I am going to eat a good dinner and do some art and listen to some Qur'an, if Allah wills.

@marx was right
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 14, 2018, 08:28:36 PM
your example is some dumbfuck youtuber who get their 15 minutes of fame? loooooooool.

Exactly. That is the perfect example of how status in A Capitalist system is not fixed. No matter how much you consider him to be a "dumb fuck", he has surpassed you on the financial ladder, which begs the question: how dumb is he really? While he climbs that social ladder with youtube, you decide to remain in the labor force. Times are changing and the workers are being replaced by machines, sucks but, that's the reality. You either partake or get left behind.


you're brain damaged
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 14, 2018, 08:40:56 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/ShittyDebateCommunism/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/ShittyDebateCommunism/)
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 14, 2018, 09:06:58 PM
your example is some dumbfuck youtuber who get their 15 minutes of fame? loooooooool.

Exactly. That is the perfect example of how status in A Capitalist system is not fixed. No matter how much you consider him to be a "dumb fuck", he has surpassed you on the financial ladder, which begs the question: how dumb is he really? While he climbs that social ladder with youtube, you decide to remain in the labor force. Times are changing and the workers are being replaced by machines, sucks but, that's the reality. You either partake or get left behind.


you're brain damaged

I know its easier to just write things off instead of facing reality. You'll get there one day...
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on May 19, 2018, 11:34:31 AM
^^You are a sad depressed person. Born in a male’s body, deluding yourself thinking society will ever think your a women.

You watch Ben Shapiro lol
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on May 19, 2018, 11:35:19 AM
your example is some dumbfuck youtuber who get their 15 minutes of fame? loooooooool.

Exactly. That is the perfect example of how status in A Capitalist system is not fixed. No matter how much you consider him to be a "dumb fuck", he has surpassed you on the financial ladder, which begs the question: how dumb is he really? While he climbs that social ladder with youtube, you decide to remain in the labor force. Times are changing and the workers are being replaced by machines, sucks but, that's the reality. You either partake or get left behind.

Hi all, Muslim here, just wanted to say that Jew run capitalism is great and you're a dumbass if you don't support it. BRB it's time for me to pray *lays down on back facing towards Tel Aviv*
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on May 19, 2018, 11:42:36 AM
lol I forgot that when I last read this thread the idiot Ben Shapiro fan Tora was saying Russia is still communist
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 19, 2018, 11:46:48 AM
tora is what happens when you self-educate yourself through youtube reactionaries
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on May 19, 2018, 11:49:30 AM

rofl
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: ~ToRa~ on May 19, 2018, 11:58:31 AM

rofl

Yeah I agree with this.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 19, 2018, 12:00:17 PM

rofl

Yeah I agree with this.

Lol.

Yea, I think we've seen the reality of this observation in NYC.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: ~ToRa~ on May 19, 2018, 12:05:50 PM
Example of shiparo being right about an issue. Next.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 19, 2018, 12:28:55 PM
 three guys whose only real contribution in life was being born to wealthy parents and never worked in their lives agree with racist stereotypes and what makes someone successful.   ;D
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: ~ToRa~ on May 19, 2018, 12:40:36 PM
I'm serious tell me your paypal. I'd like to send you some money in charity.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on May 19, 2018, 02:45:20 PM

rofl

Yeah I agree with this.

You think this because you are insanely retarded and would have died in a gutter if it wasn't for daddy's money.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 20, 2018, 12:39:39 PM
This is @marx was right and @CumSavorer4385 combined on the internet:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/HarryHayApril1996AnzaBoregoDesert.jpg)

A gay communist, when their powers combine, mainly to seduce little boys with the rest of their Mattachine buddies...a couple of exremist radical faeries.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on May 20, 2018, 07:50:29 PM
This is @marx was right and @CumSavorer4385 combined on the internet:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/HarryHayApril1996AnzaBoregoDesert.jpg)

A gay communist, when their powers combine, mainly to seduce little boys with the rest of their Mattachine buddies...a couple of exremist radical faeries.

That's your Jewish grandfather who sucked your dick at Bris and made you the gay Jew you are today, congratulations!
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 20, 2018, 08:04:10 PM
@CumSavorer4385

You dense animal.

If it wasn't for that filthy old man you just ridiculed, you would not be the freak you are today.

That old reprobate is Henry "Harry" Hay, the pioneer of the filthy movement you are a part of.

You don't even know the history of your own faggotry. But I'm not surprised.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: ~ToRa~ on May 20, 2018, 08:06:10 PM
Notice cumsavor doesn’t actually write any responses to anything. The guy is a loser with 0 thinking skills.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 20, 2018, 08:07:00 PM
Notice cumsavor doesn’t actually write any responses to anything. The guy is a loser with 0 thinking skills.

0 is too high of a number.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on May 22, 2018, 11:33:35 AM

rofl

Yeah I agree with this.
Lol, EBT card = poor, and cap/sagging pants are/were a style choice of a lot of black Americans, so he's basically just saying if you're a poor black American you're fucked, admitting the US is a racist failure.  Of course, he's saying it with scorn and blame like if these people pulled their pants up they'd become wealthy, but that's because he's a racist Amerikan himself.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: ~ToRa~ on May 22, 2018, 11:42:04 AM
Lol, EBT card = poor, and cap/sagging pants are/were a style choice of a lot of black Americans, so he's basically just saying if you're a poor black American you're fucked, admitting the US is a racist failure.  Of course, he's saying it with scorn and blame like if these people pulled their pants up they'd become wealthy, but that's because he's a racist Amerikan himself.

Lot of poor white kids and Spanish kids do it to.

If you have an EBT card that means your poor.(in most cases)
If you further live life as a rebel by sagging your pants bellow your butt in order to emulate yourself after gangsters and rappers then chances are your on a path to failure.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 22, 2018, 03:09:10 PM

rofl

Yeah I agree with this.
Lol, EBT card = poor, and cap/sagging pants are/were a style choice of a lot of black Americans, so he's basically just saying if you're a poor black American you're fucked, admitting the US is a racist failure.  Of course, he's saying it with scorn and blame like if these people pulled their pants up they'd become wealthy, but that's because he's a racist Amerikan himself.

ben shitpiro thinks he's cool cause he was born into a wealthy family, dumb bitch
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: ~ToRa~ on May 22, 2018, 03:16:30 PM
^^The guy is worth about 4 million.

http://www.famousnetworth.org/ben-shapiro-net-worth/ (http://www.famousnetworth.org/ben-shapiro-net-worth/)

He not exactly “wealthy.” More like well to do.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 22, 2018, 03:23:19 PM
@marx was right
@eyyy im walkin here

I had EBT (now called SNAP) when I was homeless...

And I had EBT (SNAP) when I was unemployed.

Technically speaking, I am in the EBT/SNAP financial bracket if I were to still live in NYC.

EBT and SSI offices are for the poor, or unemployed. No one with money goes to these offices.

And most of those people do not use the money in order to get out of that system. They live on it without seeking betterment. Housing in the projects and whatnot.

If any of you here are actually in that position (as I know I have been) then you know it's true, from state to state. I have been in those offices in Upstate NY, NYC (Triboro area), Oakland and San Francisco, CA. They are all the same.

I was homeless for 5 years @marx was right . Have you ever been homeless? I was squatting in NYC, PA and CA. You ever lived in a squat? We were crust punx. Chilled with Anarchists and Communists, Antifa skinheads, street punx, hood niggas, junkies, ex-cons. We were 40oz casualties. Not gonna lie, those times were  a blast. Islam saved my life. I was never priveledged. I grew up in a broken home, divorced parents. To this day, we are still not close to middle class. Everyone lives check to check. With the exception that I live in Egypt now and the USD stretches much farther (thanks to the IMF loan last year that will most likely put Egypt in Israels hands in the future). That's life tho.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on May 22, 2018, 06:58:38 PM
@marx was right
@eyyy im walkin here

I had EBT (now called SNAP) when I was homeless...

And I had EBT (SNAP) when I was unemployed.

Technically speaking, I am in the EBT/SNAP financial bracket if I were to still live in NYC.

EBT and SSI offices are for the poor, or unemployed. No one with money goes to these offices.

And most of those people do not use the money in order to get out of that system. They live on it without seeking betterment. Housing in the projects and whatnot.

If any of you here are actually in that position (as I know I have been) then you know it's true, from state to state. I have been in those offices in Upstate NY, NYC (Triboro area), Oakland and San Francisco, CA. They are all the same.

I was homeless for 5 years @marx was right . Have you ever been homeless? I was squatting in NYC, PA and CA. You ever lived in a squat? We were crust punx. Chilled with Anarchists and Communists, Antifa skinheads, street punx, hood niggas, junkies, ex-cons. We were 40oz casualties. Not gonna lie, those times were  a blast. Islam saved my life. I was never priveledged. I grew up in a broken home, divorced parents. To this day, we are still not close to middle class. Everyone lives check to check. With the exception that I live in Egypt now and the USD stretches much farther (thanks to the IMF loan last year that will most likely put Egypt in Israels hands in the future). That's life tho.

Did not read, you are gay.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 22, 2018, 07:09:56 PM
@marx was right
@eyyy im walkin here

I had EBT (now called SNAP) when I was homeless...

And I had EBT (SNAP) when I was unemployed.

Technically speaking, I am in the EBT/SNAP financial bracket if I were to still live in NYC.

EBT and SSI offices are for the poor, or unemployed. No one with money goes to these offices.

And most of those people do not use the money in order to get out of that system. They live on it without seeking betterment. Housing in the projects and whatnot.

If any of you here are actually in that position (as I know I have been) then you know it's true, from state to state. I have been in those offices in Upstate NY, NYC (Triboro area), Oakland and San Francisco, CA. They are all the same.

I was homeless for 5 years @marx was right . Have you ever been homeless? I was squatting in NYC, PA and CA. You ever lived in a squat? We were crust punx. Chilled with Anarchists and Communists, Antifa skinheads, street punx, hood niggas, junkies, ex-cons. We were 40oz casualties. Not gonna lie, those times were  a blast. Islam saved my life. I was never priveledged. I grew up in a broken home, divorced parents. To this day, we are still not close to middle class. Everyone lives check to check. With the exception that I live in Egypt now and the USD stretches much farther (thanks to the IMF loan last year that will most likely put Egypt in Israels hands in the future). That's life tho.

Did not read, you are gay.


Moo moo, moo?

Meow! Meow?

Woof woof! Woof!


Grrrrr?



If the above makes no sense, I am merely trying to communicate with the animal @CumSavorer4385 aka @jordan4385

I didn't know people named animals Jordan. I didn't know animals even savored cum...
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on May 22, 2018, 07:25:51 PM
@marx was right
@eyyy im walkin here

I had EBT (now called SNAP) when I was homeless...

And I had EBT (SNAP) when I was unemployed.

Technically speaking, I am in the EBT/SNAP financial bracket if I were to still live in NYC.

EBT and SSI offices are for the poor, or unemployed. No one with money goes to these offices.

And most of those people do not use the money in order to get out of that system. They live on it without seeking betterment. Housing in the projects and whatnot.

If any of you here are actually in that position (as I know I have been) then you know it's true, from state to state. I have been in those offices in Upstate NY, NYC (Triboro area), Oakland and San Francisco, CA. They are all the same.

I was homeless for 5 years @marx was right . Have you ever been homeless? I was squatting in NYC, PA and CA. You ever lived in a squat? We were crust punx. Chilled with Anarchists and Communists, Antifa skinheads, street punx, hood niggas, junkies, ex-cons. We were 40oz casualties. Not gonna lie, those times were  a blast. Islam saved my life. I was never priveledged. I grew up in a broken home, divorced parents. To this day, we are still not close to middle class. Everyone lives check to check. With the exception that I live in Egypt now and the USD stretches much farther (thanks to the IMF loan last year that will most likely put Egypt in Israels hands in the future). That's life tho.

Did not read, you are gay.


Moo moo, moo?

Meow! Meow?

Woof woof! Woof!


Grrrrr?



If the above makes no sense, I am merely trying to communicate with the animal @CumSavorer4385 aka @jordan4385

I didn't know people named animals Jordan. I didn't know animals even savored cum...

Why are you still posting?
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: ~ToRa~ on May 22, 2018, 07:29:17 PM
Why are you still posting?

Why do you still live? Clearly you are a biological mistake.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on May 22, 2018, 07:31:46 PM
Why are you still posting?

Why do you still live? Clearly you are a biological mistake.

To own you on this forum bitch.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: ~ToRa~ on May 22, 2018, 07:38:44 PM
To own you on this forum bitch.

What a sad life you have, especially considering you have falied at your life’s goal.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Every Billionaire is a Policy Failure on May 22, 2018, 09:12:10 PM
i thought god doesn't make mistakes, wow fake muslim exposed
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 22, 2018, 09:13:37 PM
@marx was right
@eyyy im walkin here

I had EBT (now called SNAP) when I was homeless...

And I had EBT (SNAP) when I was unemployed.

Technically speaking, I am in the EBT/SNAP financial bracket if I were to still live in NYC.

EBT and SSI offices are for the poor, or unemployed. No one with money goes to these offices.

And most of those people do not use the money in order to get out of that system. They live on it without seeking betterment. Housing in the projects and whatnot.

If any of you here are actually in that position (as I know I have been) then you know it's true, from state to state. I have been in those offices in Upstate NY, NYC (Triboro area), Oakland and San Francisco, CA. They are all the same.

I was homeless for 5 years @marx was right . Have you ever been homeless? I was squatting in NYC, PA and CA. You ever lived in a squat? We were crust punx. Chilled with Anarchists and Communists, Antifa skinheads, street punx, hood niggas, junkies, ex-cons. We were 40oz casualties. Not gonna lie, those times were  a blast. Islam saved my life. I was never priveledged. I grew up in a broken home, divorced parents. To this day, we are still not close to middle class. Everyone lives check to check. With the exception that I live in Egypt now and the USD stretches much farther (thanks to the IMF loan last year that will most likely put Egypt in Israels hands in the future). That's life tho.

Did not read, you are gay.


Moo moo, moo?

Meow! Meow?

Woof woof! Woof!


Grrrrr?



If the above makes no sense, I am merely trying to communicate with the animal @CumSavorer4385 aka @jordan4385

I didn't know people named animals Jordan. I didn't know animals even savored cum...

Why are you still posting?

Moo, moo moo moo moo mooo, moo?
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 23, 2018, 04:19:58 PM
wow all the way to egypt cool..glad your not homeless man! lots of us fear this.
fuckboi has some good ideas ;o we are all part female and male im sorry..unless your some testostrone high strung out football coach screaming all day..and hold up before u go abraham the 3 on me ...jesus cries like a little girl when he wants his party..by god i do to arcade bitches ..it doesnt matter to me just saying..need a god to make you feel better privledged

What is this incoherent mess of words?
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 23, 2018, 04:28:08 PM
your under caveman rule gg no re

My "under caveman rule gg no re"?

Ok guy.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 23, 2018, 04:58:59 PM
@easycompany

hahaha
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 23, 2018, 05:01:22 PM
@easycompany

I don't know what drugs you're on or what you're drinking

But all praise is due to Allah that He has provided me with a sound mind.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on May 23, 2018, 05:01:46 PM
Sounds like عبد الشكور is mad because he got owned.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on May 23, 2018, 05:07:18 PM
i bet he starts mooing and oinking again soon lol
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 23, 2018, 05:08:30 PM
Sounds like عبد الشكور is mad because he got owned.

You people and your "owned" lol

I got owned by what? By who? How?

Didn't he admit in that jibberish that he was drunk?
Quote
omg blid i got lots on booze

Lol, "owned"...you people are funny.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 23, 2018, 05:09:07 PM
i bet he starts mooing and oinking again soon lol

That is basically what you are doing now.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 23, 2018, 05:12:50 PM
jessu is not around they aint no use being the prohpet..he wants his dick sucked

Type when you sober up.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: 3bdushakur on May 23, 2018, 05:18:04 PM
oh mr prophet..do you want to know the end..israel is gonna demolish mohommads temple..you heard it first here nuclear war

Shhh, got get some rest.
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on May 23, 2018, 05:29:00 PM
lol every time i come to this forum this insane retard is posting 800 times in a row and melting down from being owned too hard
Title: Re: Is communism good or bad?
Post by: CumSavorer4385 on July 28, 2018, 10:16:04 AM
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/387689959777239040/472651756388745232/truth_about_stalin.jpg)