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Messages - Cel

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1) Strategy & Replays / Re: beating bloodlust
« on: July 16, 2019, 10:40:45 AM »
Well it is not that big of a deal.

Every strat an orc can do that does not involve lust can be used by humans as well stick to these strats and you wont miss lust, unless things don't go according to plan in which case you'd probably loose as an orc as well so chill :D.

Yes it is unbalanced but you really only have less options and less room for failure it is not like you can't play around it.

Game is almost perfectly balanced aside from a few spells and mechanics, if anything, it is a good way to take on a slightly weaker opponent and give yourself a very small handicap.

 :wc2:

2) Server.War2.ru / Re: FINALLYY EVERY 1 NEEDS THIS
« on: July 16, 2019, 10:29:45 AM »
The good thing with having a command to get a list of all mods used by a player or players in a lobby is that we get to have a sort of "framework" a kind of "normalized" way we can add even more plugins later and manage them all very simply in game.

If I am not mistaking the server uses a sql database we could just make a table that register all known plugins with ids and names.
Then a link table on the ids of users and plugins where we create an entry when a plugin is used for a given player and a timestamp (we can also have a version number here). Basically the plugin would just periodically send a message to say it is basically still alive and running and when the plugin program is exited on exit it sends an "unregister" message and if it crashes well when the time of the period is over we just remove the entry until it is ran again.

I just looked diagonaly at the source code of pvpgnpro it seems commands can be added in lua in that file:
https://github.com/pvpgn/pvpgn-server/blob/master/lua/handle_command.lua

We do not even have to ask pvpgn anything actually we can just go from the lua to ask the mysql or even a php page  :P

What do you think? I could be very wrong but I get a sense this could be quite simple to do?  :critter:

3) Server.War2.ru / Re: FINALLYY EVERY 1 NEEDS THIS
« on: July 16, 2019, 09:50:29 AM »
Honestly whether I am using the plugin or not I may be totally ok with people using it in the games I host or don't care, especially if the guy using them is pretty new its a good way to give them a small advantage vs a more experienced player that does not use the plugin.

Now ofc if I know who uses it I can balance accordingly kinda based on how good people perform with it.

If you force people to be excluded depending on if they have the same plugins activated or not you remove these options from the table.

If the host does not want others to use a plugin they can always ask them not to and as soon as lamb makes it visible he will be able to tell if they have it on that is enough.

But if the host does not care, which will be the case of most people out there imo, well he wont be impacted at all and can still play with everyone.

 :wc2:

4) Server.War2.ru / Re: FINALLYY EVERY 1 NEEDS THIS
« on: July 16, 2019, 05:05:32 AM »
The only thing people argue about is about enforcing it for everyone...
Because someone said they wanted to enforce it (not lambchop) on everyone, people have instantly freaked out and raised their shields and started to argue about it.

If the mods stay optional and people can tell when they are being used or not by others, no one can be really mad about it because you always have the option not to use them, and make sure people in your game don't use them either. So every one can play the way they want you are not removing the choice from the players.

If you enforce it, then you will unnecessarily piss some people, you are also effectively removing an choice and an option / way the game can be played while we do not really need to.

At least it seems lamb is on the same page as me on that one from what I've read these mods make the game rich because it gives us legit improvements and also because they are optional.
More options is good how can it be bad, if you don't like it don't use it, haters that do not want these new options can always not use them and others can live their life happily too some may not use them but will totally accept that others do etc.

Now for that to work we need a transparent way to tell when someone uses them, and on that later point yes lamb I think a chat message when entering lobby would work or a command or a flag on the status page or all of it are good ideas.

The more we know the better :thumbsup:

5) Server.War2.ru / Re: FINALLYY EVERY 1 NEEDS THIS
« on: July 12, 2019, 04:15:29 AM »
Well that is what modding is all about you change the gameplay and make it available as a mod  :thumbsup:

Many games nowadays are getting a lot of mods and they are not forced on people usually what happens is you activate mods or not depending on the lobby you join. If you do not have the mods used by the host usually the game will make you download them.

We can't really have that in war2 unfortunately but we can still make them visible at least and people can always go install/launch the mod then come back.

In modern games you may find mods for about everything improving the ui adding new gameplay elements or changing the graphic aspect of the game.

You do not have to look too far though starcraft supports modding now too :P

6) Server.War2.ru / Re: FINALLYY EVERY 1 NEEDS THIS
« on: July 11, 2019, 02:07:10 PM »
Make it an option people can get just like war2observe is.

I really recommend we implement a command for players to be able to tell what known mods people are running with the game. something like the anti-hack but for mods that we know.
@iL would that be doable?
like a "/mods" command that can be followed with a player name and that would list all mods used by a player.

That way it is transparent and I am sure there will be absolutely no problems no matter how different the mods change the game.

Because it is like playing a custom game kind of, sure it is different from the main game but who cares if it is an option that players can choose/control no one is forced to play free castle all day but some players enjoy it we do not have to choose for everyone.

Think about it as if it was a custom map, forcing every player to adopt it as the one and only map would be a terribly bad idea, allowing it to exist along side what we already have however is a 100% win win and it makes the game rich.

So yeah I would say lambchop is right to say it makes the game richer to have these mods but it makes it richer especially because they are optional and controllable the question is what can we do about it :P

7) Server.War2.ru / Re: FINALLYY EVERY 1 NEEDS THIS
« on: July 07, 2019, 01:37:50 AM »
Cheating is not cheating if you agree at the beginning on the advantage it gives you with the other players it is cheating because you do it in their back... That is what makes it a cheat.
Allow players to see who is using what and to choose wether to use it or not and no one will have no issues about it everyone will be happy.

To me it does not really matter if it "changes" the gameplay... I don't think anyone would care if it is not done in a shady way.

These plugins are cheats only if they are not detectable easily by other players when they are used, in game and/or on the status page.

As long as it is not done behind people's back and people can still choose not to use the said plugin or not, I see no reason why people would be mad about it...

Thus my recommendation for any mod that touches gameplay:

Make it easy to see when players use the mod and give them the choice to use it or not and everyone will welcome it with open arms there is nothing to loose there everyone wins no one has a reason to be mad.

The way I see it there is only so many ways to go about it:
- If you enforce it on everyone from the get go there will be people mad about it.
- If you don't enforce it but people cannot tell easily if players are using it there will be people mad about it.
- if you don't release it well me and many others will be sad about it because we miss a great opportunity to make the game better.

^
Only scenario where I don't see people having a reason to be mad/sad about it is if it is not enforced on players and they can easily see if and when people are using it...

If every single player ends up using the mod from there we can ship it with the game and make it a default thing since at that time we would be able to tell no one has any problem with that. :P

8) Server.War2.ru / Re: FINALLYY EVERY 1 NEEDS THIS
« on: July 06, 2019, 12:43:18 PM »
other games loose players everytime they do something like that we cant really afford it.
Other games like starcraft 2 are entirely based on a different kind of playerbase you can't just ignore nostalgia is the main factor for war2 we all know that.

We do not have to force players to adopt our updates...
If they are really good players will end up all updating anyways, but in the mean time if you let people choose and make it fair and visible you wont alienate anyone, that is just more respectful...

You and me may think the updates are a straight good thing it is still very bold and not ok to impose our point of view on others or make it shady.

Cheating is not cheating if you agree at the beginning on the advantage it gives you with the other players it is cheating because you do it in their back... That is what makes it a cheat.
Allow players to see who is using what and to choose wether to use it or not and no one will have no issues about it everyone will be happy.

^
That is the only thing we need to find a way to do if we want players to be ok with our nice upgrades that awesome lambchop spent so much time and effort to do and that I would love players to slowly adopt  too btw :-)

Just needs to be done in a way that everyone's perspective/opinion/point of view is respected and accounted for :P

9) Server.War2.ru / Re: FINALLYY EVERY 1 NEEDS THIS
« on: July 06, 2019, 09:57:44 AM »
ALthough I like the idea of having a bunch of mods improving the gameplay available to everyone like that.
I do also believe it would not be advisable to enforce it on everyone.
We should let players choose for themselves.
We have to respect other players even if you think this is minor or it makes things better some people will want to keep it the old way.
I also think the mods will make the game richer and better.

To make everyone happy we really have to find a way for players to know at anytime what modes players are running.

10) Server.War2.ru / Re: FINALLYY EVERY 1 NEEDS THIS
« on: July 05, 2019, 01:17:21 PM »
Chop bars are pretty neat I think they benefit pros most since it allows for better optimisation of the wood flow when moving peons around, it is an info that was not available before if you were not constantly watching your wood line when peons get back to chop, there is no way to tell which peon is almost done chopping and which just started especially during late game.

Also if you notice someone is chopping in your base you can tell if the chop is almost done or if you still have the time to make an at or move a cat in position with absolute certainty (unless it does not show for other players/enemies).

life bars are also a great addition pros will mostly already be used to select during micro but that will clearly allow them not to.

Overall I think there is nothing wrong about making the game more modern and nicer/easier with these simple changes I think people wont be complaining if they can tell quickly in game or in lobby if players are using the mod or not :P


The only thing that may trigger some hate is if it is shady. But if it is clearly visible then they can choose wether they want it or not being used in their games/'tourneys

I suggest a command like
/mods *playername*
that would display all the mods being used that that player that are "official" like:
*playername* uses: observe, lifebars, teamcolors, chop bars, whatever mod name

11) Server.War2.ru / Re: FINALLYY EVERY 1 NEEDS THIS
« on: July 05, 2019, 12:32:13 PM »
I love these additions to the game they look legit and they are a great step forward to upgrade the game! :thumbsup:

About the fact that it is a real help to have them tools on, it would be awesome if we could have a quick way to tell when people are or not running the mods from the game with a command or/and from the status page for example.
Since these additions may really help the game-play substantially it would be nice to be able to see when players use them for tourneys and ladder.
That way people can still play "old school" if they really want and wont feel cheated on since they can see/tell before hand if they want to.

For example some tourney could make them tools mandatory or ask players not to use these tools works both ways overall I see only positive can come out of this if it is done right.

What do you think guys would that be doable?
@iL
@Lambchops

I think making the mod visible to all in game and on status may fix any problem people have with it in it's current form, and maybe later form if more features are added to it later on :-)

And again great job Lambchops you are doing amazing things!

12) Server.War2.ru / Re: Streaming?
« on: June 05, 2019, 06:42:16 PM »
more people play during weekend from friday to sunday :P

13) Server.War2.ru / Re: `elo my name is disgruntled
« on: April 18, 2019, 01:44:36 PM »
What we really would need is a match making system where you register to a queue and you get to face a random person selected from that queue by elo and a toutch of randomness.

We could make it external but we would have to set it up in a way we can track games and games are properly hosted/played.

So maybe we would have to pair that system with a hosting bot that would host the games for players and give them time to get in the game and if they leave before it starts or do not join within the allocated time frame they loose elo to make sure we avoid dodging behaviors if you dodge you basically take the loose.

Also players would have to have a certain number of games played before they can queue up in that to make sure we do not have too much smurfing problems I would say 1000 games or something like that :P

14) Server.War2.ru / Re: Should I buy/play Gog?
« on: April 16, 2019, 07:22:31 PM »
@Szwagier Exactly!

You cannot register your already bought game at gog you have to specifically buy it from them to get their updated client.

There wont be such option since Blizzard ditched the title and abandoned all support for the game.
Blizzard can never sell the game in that state it does not meet their standards they would have to fix it.

Basically gog is asking players to pay for what fans already did for free and what should have been done by blizzard a long time ago if they did not abandon the game...

Now lets imagine that blizzard was the one doing it and not gog for a second, take a game people already have bought, fix the bare minimum for it to barely work again and charge the full game all over again to it's customers in order for them to just have exactly the same experience they had before.

You effectively are making people pay for customer support on a product they already bought we are not talking additional content or expansion here just keeping the product barely working.

I know most people are fine paying for what should be free but not everyone is a mac user :))

Now if blizzard or gog was to make a re-master of the game which means upgrading the textures, adding match-making,  greater battle.net support, etc... that would be another story they can sell that this is content but keeping a game working is not something we should encourage selling.

Look at war3 they are doing a remaster and it is looking good because at the same time they keep the old game working as well they update it they did not abandon it they only make you pay for the new graphics and new content but keeping the game working is not something they charge you for and that should never be...

so yes for me gog is just a scam in disguise...

15) Server.War2.ru / Re: Should I buy/play Gog?
« on: April 16, 2019, 12:28:11 PM »
If people start buying a game again every time it needs an update the game industry is kinda hopeless.

It may be a different company but activision clearly wants to milk people without the responsibility that is why they accepted the deal from gog.
They stopped selling the game because it is broken and they dont want to fix it but they still want your money.
Gog gave them an opportunity to get your money for the game without having to fix much since most fixes are documented and already done by fans anyways.

And of course gog want you to buy the game from them even if you already have it they don't care if you already bought it, a scam is a scam...

Now how long before steam starts to do the same thing and fix that or that other problem and require you to buy the full game once again as well?
And maybe itch.io someday ? Origin?

This is capitalism if you start buying things that you should not buy you are sending a message that it is ok to sell these things and before you know it you will have to pay for every single updates for every single game you own to just keep them working.

That is where people should draw lines on what practice is ok and what is not.

If blizzard or GoG made a full remaster of the game including HD textures widescreen support, team/solo matchmaking queues and updated battle.net interface as well as fixing the old game just like they are doing for warcraft 3 reforged.

Then yes that would be something else, but here it is very different and that should be seen for what it is: a scam...

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