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FlameWars Forum 2524  27

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Re: FlameWars Forum
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2015, 12:22:01 PM »
Thinking about it a bit, if you go by net worth rather than income, which in some ways is a better indicator, a lot of the lower parts of the middle classes (in the US at least) are probably not quite as privileged as their income may indicate due to the onerous debt most middle-class Americans are forced to take on to sustain their living standards. This would especially put the most marginalized and poorest communities in the US more firmly on the side of the global oppressed. However, for middle-class families with two people pulling $60k-90k incomes in McMansions and SUV's (for example), I think my previous analysis is pretty solid.
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Re: FlameWars Forum
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2015, 12:22:42 PM »
I think the problem is the 0.01% worldwide, and 1% developed countries.

Of course you do, you're a middle-class reactionary bordering on fascist (right-wing libertarian).
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Re: FlameWars Forum
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2015, 01:02:32 PM »
fuckboi1488 is making some good points.  I concur for the most part, and believe middle-class Americans and the like probably live at unsustainable levels subsidized on the backs of the exploitation of the third world.  However, I'm open to the idea that if we murdered all the rich, and instituted global socialism, those living standards may possibly be attainable.
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Re: FlameWars Forum
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2015, 01:12:54 PM »
It's possible, and, hell, once the primary political goal of destroying the bourgeois state and establishing JDPEN is accomplished, I see no harm in giving it a try.
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Re: FlameWars Forum
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2015, 01:16:12 PM »
$50,000 for the average american may seem like a lot on a world-wide scale, but given the cost of living in america it is not. It is barely enough to get by and support a family with the ever growing government and ever increasing taxes and cash grabs like obamacare.

Earning $50,000 today is garbage, anything below that is poverty.
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Re: FlameWars Forum
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2015, 01:16:55 PM »
$50,000 for the average american may seem like a lot on a world-wide scale, but given the cost of living in america it is not. It is barely enough to get by and support a family with the ever growing government and ever increasing taxes and cash grabs like obamacare.

Earning $50,000 today is garbage, anything below that is poverty.

Spoken like a true petit-bourgeois fascist. Also a Canadian retard who doesn't even live in America lol.
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Re: FlameWars Forum
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2015, 01:17:17 PM »
$50,000 for the average american may seem like a lot on a world-wide scale, but given the cost of living in america it is not. It is barely enough to get by and support a family with the ever growing government and ever increasing taxes and cash grabs like obamacare.

Earning $50,000 today is garbage, anything below that is poverty.
No it's not.
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Re: FlameWars Forum
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2015, 01:18:30 PM »
How will I ever get by in life on a mere $50,000 a year? Hell, half of that comes right out of my paycheck and goes straight to Obamacare.
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Re: FlameWars Forum
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2015, 01:21:17 PM »
Making more money than 99% of the planet isn't nearly enough. BTW, its only the people richer than me that are the problem.
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Re: FlameWars Forum
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2015, 01:22:11 PM »
How will I ever get by in life on a mere $50,000 a year? Hell, half of that comes right out of my paycheck and goes straight to Obamacare.
No it doesn't ...

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Re: FlameWars Forum
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2015, 01:22:33 PM »
Quote from: fuckboi
What do you mean it doesn't mean shit?
both groups are victims of exploitation (west and the third world) by the worlds richest 1%.

Quote from: fuckboi
It means middle-class Americans are dependent on imperialism to sustain their standard of living.

no they aren't. imperialism takes away jobs from the working class as it sets up an opportunity for cheap labour overseas, it has a negative impact. imperialism largely benefits the oligarchs.

Quote from: fuckboi
Within the US there is a class conflict between these middle class petit-bourgeoisie and the big bourgeois capitalists, but globally their interests converge more than they diverge. A quick illustration of this dynamic can be seen in the way that middle-class America generally has no solidarity with victims of imperialism whatsoever and does not see imperialism as something wrong in and of itself, and in fact sees it as desirable and right and just. Anti-imperial sentiment only appears in the middle class when it is perceived that imperialism is serving the interests of the big bourgeoisie at the expense of the middle classes (i.e. "Stop sending our boys off to die in pointless wars for oil"). They are almost wholly reactionary in character which is to be expected considering their class position, they cannot be expected to be allies in any sort of revolutionary situation. In fact the petit-bourgeoisie who are frustrated by the political dominance of big capital often tend to form the nucleus of fascist movements.

i have a slightly different definition in mind when i was thinking of the middle class. it's been so eroded nowadays, there's little difference between the working class and the middle class outside of wage and standard of living.
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Re: FlameWars Forum
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2015, 01:31:35 PM »
both groups are victims of exploitation (west and the third world) by the worlds richest 1%.

I just demonstrated that the middle class in Western countries are the world's richest 1%. How can they exploit themselves?

no they aren't. imperialism takes away jobs from the working class as it sets up an opportunity for cheap labour overseas, it has a negative impact. imperialism largely benefits the oligarchs.

Yes, global capitalism has crippled the working class in developed countries. I'm not talking about the working class though, the middle class isn't the same thing. Middle-class Americans work in offices, not factories, they don't want or need those jobs. The US functionally barely even has a working class anymore, the people who make it up are scattered and alienated and have little to no working class organizations dedicated to fighting for their interests. Obviously this is more beneficial to oligarchs but it is also not really something that petit-bourgeoisie have an interest in halting, since they benefit from it as well in the form of cheap commodities. And it's not just about commodity production either, as you bring up in the form of outsourcing, it also has to do with resource extraction, which is much less flexible than capital and labor markets.

i have a slightly different definition in mind when i was thinking of the middle class. it's been so eroded nowadays, there's little difference between the working class and the middle class outside of wage and standard of living.

I have no idea what this means. How has the middle class been "eroded?" What do the working class and middle class have in common? You realize the "middle-class" are the people who fund and vote for the GOP and DNC, don't you? Do you think the petit-bourgeois middle class has the same interest in, for example, reforming the slave labor prison system?
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Re: FlameWars Forum
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2015, 01:55:13 PM »

i don't know, the lower-middle class and the working class are almost indiscernible.