Author Topic: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing  (Read 20478 times)

Offline Szwagier

  • Ogre Mage
  • ********
  • Posts: 1659
    • View Profile
Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing
« Reply #60 on: December 13, 2020, 05:37:05 AM »
i disagree with you, human race is more powerfull race than orc in sea maps,
You still have to live up to a magician with 200 mana, and that is far from the fact that the combination with invisibility will work. Or you may not live.
And let's be honest ... very few people play at sea. 99% of players play only in gow classic, where the orcs always rule, be you even Chuck Noris.
AVERAGE.
Don't tell me what a cool player you are.

and? human wont fight vs orc in open fights, so yes they can hide his mages and wait for 200 mana since its strongest strategy for human

and you want change game, for one map?

we should change map first gow, even gow TE is still no balanced well


I hope there will be some statistic from  backup server, how many games will be played, after one month
« Last Edit: December 13, 2020, 05:43:22 AM by Szwagier »
http://www.youtube.com/user/SzwagierR


Equinox - the dumbest person in this game, do not argue with an idiot, because he will bring you to his level and overcome with experience

Offline Oragorn

  • Grunt
  • ***
  • Posts: 105
    • View Profile
Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing
« Reply #61 on: December 13, 2020, 05:49:12 AM »
and? human wont fight vs orc in open fights, so yes they can hide his mages and wait for 200 mana since its strongest strategy for human
Humans usually don't live up to that 200 mana. And THEN there are not many chances of winning.
With equal players, of course.

and you want change game, for one map?
No, we want to strengthen the weaker race. So that they have a better chance of winning than now (now the chance of people winning is about 10%, I believe).

we should change map first gow, even gow TE is still no balanced well
Good luck :) Nobody plays GOW TE now, everyone is too much "jerked" under the classic curve. And nobody complains. Well, it dropped 8 or 6 - that's ok :)

There are, of course, exceptions, for example, our Russian-speaking community at tournaments uses only TE version maps (if these tournaments are not exclusively dedicated to the gow classic map).

Offline Vendar

  • Grunt
  • ***
  • Posts: 76
    • View Profile
Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing
« Reply #62 on: December 13, 2020, 06:00:14 AM »
"perfect" ? It's the same sort of answer that people say here on war2. If you look it from outside with an objective perspective then you see what's the problem.

SC1 is 22 years old, I never ever saw scouts or ghosts or nuclear bombs usage. What's the last time you saw marine firebat medics being used professionally vs protoss ? vs terran ? I used to play against some amateur plus professionals and had several years of experience around this. What's the last time you saw massive ghosts usage vs protoss or terran ? Source ? It doesn't work for videos from 2001 or extremally picky situations just for show. I mean on regular daily gameplays...

By the way I hope you can give it a try to DAIFE or DIE, good luck & have fun !


Scouts are sometimes used in PvT to rush Terrans in "island" maps. Firebats sometimes in TvZ vs mass Zerglings. Nuclear Bombs I saw only once, that's true, but it was a good combo with EMP vs Protoss buildings. All of these are very rare cases, but still happens in pro gamers matches.

Offline Szwagier

  • Ogre Mage
  • ********
  • Posts: 1659
    • View Profile
Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing
« Reply #63 on: December 13, 2020, 06:04:31 AM »
and? human wont fight vs orc in open fights, so yes they can hide his mages and wait for 200 mana since its strongest strategy for human
Humans usually don't live up to that 200 mana. And THEN there are not many chances of winning.
With equal players, of course.

and you want change game, for one map?
No, we want to strengthen the weaker race. So that they have a better chance of winning than now (now the chance of people winning is about 10%, I believe).

we should change map first gow, even gow TE is still no balanced well
Good luck :) Nobody plays GOW TE now, everyone is too much "jerked" under the classic curve. And nobody complains. Well, it dropped 8 or 6 - that's ok :)

There are, of course, exceptions, for example, our Russian-speaking community at tournaments uses only TE version maps (if these tournaments are not exclusively dedicated to the gow classic map).


equal player, if he play vs orcs, will make 2 mage towers and will got blizzard fast as opponent orc, equal player know that making mass knights vs mass orcs wont win game, so he will make less and he will got enough gold to do that
http://www.youtube.com/user/SzwagierR


Equinox - the dumbest person in this game, do not argue with an idiot, because he will bring you to his level and overcome with experience

Offline dannyldd

  • Grunt
  • ***
  • Posts: 164
    • View Profile
Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing
« Reply #64 on: December 13, 2020, 06:12:32 AM »
"perfect" ? It's the same sort of answer that people say here on war2. If you look it from outside with an objective perspective then you see what's the problem.

SC1 is 22 years old, I never ever saw scouts or ghosts or nuclear bombs usage. What's the last time you saw marine firebat medics being used professionally vs protoss ? vs terran ? I used to play against some amateur plus professionals and had several years of experience around this. What's the last time you saw massive ghosts usage vs protoss or terran ? Source ? It doesn't work for videos from 2001 or extremally picky situations just for show. I mean on regular daily gameplays...

By the way I hope you can give it a try to DAIFE or DIE, good luck & have fun !


Scouts are sometimes used in PvT to rush Terrans in "island" maps. Firebats sometimes in TvZ vs mass Zerglings. Nuclear Bombs I saw only once, that's true, but it was a good combo with EMP vs Protoss buildings. All of these are very rare cases, but still happens in pro gamers matches.


With all due respect, in lower skill level anything can be used from the game... People in war2 could say stuff like invicibility or raise of the dead spells work in war2 but probably we're are talking from very slow level speed people because when we're talking about slow macro mechanics then anything can be bring up to the table and work because reactions are slower even if the spells are not efficient for high level people.

With respect to SC1, Scout is a unit that I never ever saw in around 17 years being used against anything in high level games, not even amateur level. Those must be from very casual level people. Firebats is more likely a unit that could be seen in terran vs zerg but some specific situations by professionals to deal with dark swarm spell from defilers but that's the very only case along with some 10 marine + 2 medics timing where you can add up 2 firebats in case of massive zerglings, but again those are very specific situations and not in regular high level games.
This is like the thing this guy szwagier mentioned about from invisibility with sea units. You may have seen this thing happening once or a very few times in several years, that doesn't make it either useful for regular usage or even worse, for high level people. The same for sc1 units.

Just to add up, which was the last time you saw corsairs being used vs terran ? Or queens with ensnare against any race ? or broodlings ? Infested command center + infested marines ? Or Dark archons against any race ?
SC1  isn't remotely to ever be considered perfect at game balance from my opinion, but the people really like it because on how hard was to mechanically  play with the AI and units along with micro.  This could be addressed up as well on this game with troll or archers as well. As long as people want several changes to the units as well...

I really encourage again to just nerf bloodlust as soon as possible so then we could all see crazy strategies never ever could have been seen.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2020, 06:16:41 AM by dannyldd »

Offline Vendar

  • Grunt
  • ***
  • Posts: 76
    • View Profile
Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing
« Reply #65 on: December 13, 2020, 07:11:01 AM »
Just to add up, which was the last time you saw corsairs being used vs terran ? Or queens with ensnare against any race ? or broodlings ? Infested command center + infested marines ? Or Dark archons against any race ?
SC1  isn't remotely to ever be considered perfect at game balance from my opinion, but the people really like it because on how hard was to mechanically  play with the AI and units along with micro.  This could be addressed up as well on this game with troll or archers as well. As long as people want several changes to the units as well...

I really encourage again to just nerf bloodlust as soon as possible so then we could all see crazy strategies never ever could have been seen.

Are you joking? Am I supposed to look for pro-gamers gameplay for casual situations when someone trains Dark Archons?

I'm not sure that you were watching SC1 tournaments, but this game is balanced.

Firebats:
Spoiler

Dark Archons:
Spoiler

And please don't tell me that Terror or Shuttle are not professional players, because it will be a lie.

Queens are played versus Terran Tanks, but very rare cause Science Vessels kills it easily. Most units in SC1 counters each other thats why you probably won't see Firebats vs Protoss and Corsairs vs Terran (but Corsair might happen to cast Disruption Web on turrets before drop).
« Last Edit: December 13, 2020, 07:14:58 AM by Vendar »

Offline eleison

  • Grunt
  • ***
  • Posts: 216
    • View Profile
Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing
« Reply #66 on: December 13, 2020, 08:13:47 AM »
It's not that important for War2 that Human is balanced with Orc. Maybe you can make it little bit more balanced, either nerf lust a little or maybe give knights and movement speed upgrade instead of healing. Would make Human more fun to play. Anyways what War2 needs most is better lobby and hosting options. Make it possible to host games with more settings and also observer functions etc. Also fix dead spot issue would be nice. :)

Fun that you trying to make a mod out of War 2 though, but will not work for competitive play. But I hope you have fun doing it :)

Offline Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)

  • "The Architect"
  • Global Moderator
  • Dragon
  • *****
  • Posts: 5384
    • View Profile
Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing
« Reply #67 on: December 13, 2020, 11:44:50 AM »
if you're playing humans on water or ffa you probably have loads of mages around your town and lots of guard towers. several mages will have 255 mana at all times

it's true though that people rarely ever play those settings and just play land where orcs stomp humans. partially because the techniques that make humans equal (longer game, more defensive) is not as fun to play frequently
    

Offline ~ToRa~

  • Server Admin
  • Death Knight
  • *****
  • Posts: 3492
  • The General
    • View Profile
Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing
« Reply #68 on: December 13, 2020, 01:39:26 PM »
if you're playing humans on water or ffa you probably have loads of mages around your town and lots of guard towers. several mages will have 255 mana at all times

it's true though that people rarely ever play those settings and just play land where orcs stomp humans. partially because the techniques that make humans equal (longer game, more defensive) is not as fun to play frequently

I gotta be really high to play a map with those settings lmao. Those games regularly go into 45min or more.
war2 > war3

Offline Szwagier

  • Ogre Mage
  • ********
  • Posts: 1659
    • View Profile
Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing
« Reply #69 on: December 13, 2020, 06:24:00 PM »
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/835945747

last game hsc 2x2 me steve vs spb braviet

you can see how to play with humans

how work invis and another spell like slow or polymorph
http://www.youtube.com/user/SzwagierR


Equinox - the dumbest person in this game, do not argue with an idiot, because he will bring you to his level and overcome with experience

Offline dannyldd

  • Grunt
  • ***
  • Posts: 164
    • View Profile
Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing
« Reply #70 on: December 13, 2020, 06:40:34 PM »
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/835945747

last game hsc 2x2 me steve vs spb braviet

you can see how to play with humans

how work invis and another spell like slow or polymorph

This game just proved what I just said that invicibility makes no difference, even though you wait all long to get that spell... The game was defined by better economy way earlier like mass gryphon raiders or sneaky mage tower. I really encourage to not misinform people because this sort of rare case game is a good reason why some people already have said to me that invicibility make humans strong in sea... even though for sea maps is hard to even get any situation where invicibility would rarely make any difference.

Either way you had good mechanics to deal with the other people, I praise you without any problem for that.

Offline Vendar

  • Grunt
  • ***
  • Posts: 76
    • View Profile
Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing
« Reply #71 on: December 14, 2020, 07:34:09 AM »
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/835945747

last game hsc 2x2 me steve vs spb braviet

you can see how to play with humans

how work invis and another spell like slow or polymorph

Great matches, good job  :clap: Nice spells casting  :slight_smile:

So you need 3 full mana Mages and 1 Transport Ship to do this Invis combo, but to be honest - it's a great move.
At the end your opponent dropped 6 Bloodlusted Ogres and almost smashed everything so still Bloodlust is powerful in sea maps.

Just to compare costs:
  • Invis trick: 1k gold/0.2k wood (Mage Tower) + 3.6k gold (Mages) + 4.5k gold (invis + blizz spells costs) = 9.1k gold and 200 wood
  • Bloodlusted Ogres: 0.9k gold/0.5 wood (Altar of Storms) + 2k (ogre-mage upg and BL) + 4.8k gold/0.6k wood (6 Ogre-Mages) = 7.7k gold and 1.1k wood

I'm not sure my method is ok here, I should also consider building/researching/mana reg. times and build orders but... looking on costs only, 6 Bloodlusted Ogre-Mages looks to be faster to achieve than 3 Mages with Invis and Blizz spells.
The only problem for Ogres seems to be reaching to Human's island but if they do it might be a gg before Human will prepare Invis combo. Well I cannot prove that with my low APMs  :)) but maybe someone with your skill Szwagier will do it. Anyway, well played  :ok_hand:  :wc2:
« Last Edit: December 14, 2020, 07:37:19 AM by Vendar »

Offline Szwagier

  • Ogre Mage
  • ********
  • Posts: 1659
    • View Profile
Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing
« Reply #72 on: December 14, 2020, 07:52:14 AM »
You cant compare costs, you didnt count smith upgardes, lvl 3 ogre with lust can lose vs lvl 5 ogre(random dmg)

Lust is op, but in sea maps you cant attack all the time with ogres
« Last Edit: December 14, 2020, 07:54:56 AM by Szwagier »
http://www.youtube.com/user/SzwagierR


Equinox - the dumbest person in this game, do not argue with an idiot, because he will bring you to his level and overcome with experience

Offline Vendar

  • Grunt
  • ***
  • Posts: 76
    • View Profile
Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing
« Reply #73 on: December 14, 2020, 08:10:54 AM »
You cant compare costs, you didnt count smith upgardes, lvl 3 ogre with lust can lose vs lvl 5 ogre(random dmg)

Lust is op, but in sea maps you cant attack all the time with ogres

True, but if you want to fight lust ogres with lvl 5 knights you have to smith upgrades for these knights and of course train knights. These are additional costs that will slow down your Invis tactic. Maybe I'm wrong, but for me it looks like Lust is always op

Offline Mistral

  • Administrator
  • Axe Thrower
  • *****
  • Posts: 365
    • View Profile
Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing
« Reply #74 on: December 20, 2020, 04:23:20 PM »
Ok there is new update.

1) Fixed status of demons and sheeps. So stats can be seen as on normal unit.
2) Demons >:D multiselectable now. And do less dmg.
3) Runestone radius is 2 now. Fixed Runestone heal and mana regen timer. They now heals as needed.

4) BIG UPDATE. :-X
Removed random damage from units. Units always dealt max damage now.
Mybe did you saw when ogre can dealt like from 4 to 8 dmg. And somehow your ogres dealt always 4 it seems and enemies always 8. And you thinking wat is the actual fuk is this?!?!!
So u can forget about it now. No random. No luck. just SKILL. just microcontrol like a god.

5) BIG UPDATE. :P
Bloodlust always do X2 dmg. Not X1.5 not X2.5 and NOT X3. ONLY!!! x2.
Cause it now calculates from final damage. (after armor was removed).


Damage thing and bloodlust thing will be removed later :blank: (i think).
Please TEST them and TELL what YOU think about that SHIT!? :poo:
(if many people like it then it will stay.) (and maybe even wiil go to official serv? ??? :thinking:)
« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 04:30:10 PM by Mistral »