Author Topic: how to play new ladder  (Read 3339 times)

Online Mistral

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how to play new ladder
« on: June 22, 2024, 06:23:13 PM »
so guys it seems like not many players know how to play in new fixed ladder (it only counts ELO, no cursed ranks)
today it seems like i at last fixed reports sorting, so i cleared all previous testing games
now everyone can start playing
you can check ELO ranks here https://ladder.war2.ru/index_mist.php

so basically you need to host map random.pud from Maps/Random folder

you always automatically have it after join server as it will be downloaded shortly after you connected
first 2 spots is for players, 3rd spot is for obs if you need
when game starts you will get random unknown map to play and compete for ladder

and dont say that its not fair or something, check how ladder games works on sc2 or war3, peoples get some map pool for every season and they play random maps in competetive mode
if you only want to play only gow its not good, you want to compete for Warcraft 2 ladder, not gow ladder, this is different things, in War2 you need to be able to play other types of maps. (btw dnt worry your belowed gow is still in map pool and you can get it randomly)

so yea there will also be changing map pool every now and then, like 1-3 months seasons we will see how fast people want to change it
« Last Edit: June 22, 2024, 06:31:09 PM by Mistral »

Offline Nox

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Re: how to play new ladder
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2024, 06:51:18 PM »
I love the concept but im not a fan of how it is done.

My probleme is pretty simple, there no informations about it at all.

How does it work??

You said its Random maps, but how much maps there in the pool??

2-4-6-8-10-12-14-16-20-50??

What are the maps, it will be fun to have image of them and the name of them to know exactly what we gonna play.

Did you speak with community to know what kind of maps and rules they want or you only did speak with u8 so its another ladder to personally please him.

Thanks for answer.


« Last Edit: June 22, 2024, 06:58:34 PM by Nox »
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Online Mistral

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Re: how to play new ladder
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2024, 07:21:33 PM »
you can find all of the maps pool in Maps/Random/maps folder, they are downloaded when you join serv
this map pool prepared with the help of Dudakurten, i not saw him long ago though, seems like he have some real life stuff to do
there was some untraceable bugs in scripts but now seems fixed
so yea map pool can be changed with community
for now its small, mostly for testing new ladder system

Offline Nox

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Re: how to play new ladder
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2024, 08:31:12 PM »
Yeah i guess we can see maps by folders, the problem is no one really willing to go that deep to know whats are the maps, and if they want to see them they also need to open editor map, thats very complicated, you should just make an official presentation of them on forum or official website with image of the maps and short description of them.. Doing something a little bit more professionnal then just hoping peoples to searchs in their folders and editor map.

Not only its better for everyone but it will ecourage them to play it when they see a nice clean presentation of the season.

Also, im not sure about adding free ressources map on these pool, i kinda feel that selection of maps, but the arena one is not something that really belong there, same for water map, you should make sure the maps are something everyone play in general, free ressources is mostly something to play for fun and water map are probably play by a minority on the server, lot of peoples will not play a random ladder if some map are really dislike.

Thanks for the work too, really appreciated.



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Online Mistral

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Re: how to play new ladder
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2024, 09:38:18 AM »
ye i can make posts with maps pool on each new seasons
and people must be able to play many types of maps, ofc there will not be something like ums maps with changed stats or etc
but there must be always at least 1 water map
Warcraft 2 is also sea battles, even if many peoples forgetting about it often

Offline dannyldd

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Re: how to play new ladder
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2024, 12:05:21 PM »
so Ed, nice great new feature.

Offline Nox

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Re: how to play new ladder
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2024, 06:32:54 PM »
ye i can make posts with maps pool on each new seasons
and people must be able to play many types of maps, ofc there will not be something like ums maps with changed stats or etc
but there must be always at least 1 water map
Warcraft 2 is also sea battles, even if many peoples forgetting about it often

You really think peoples dont play water maps because they forgot it exist?? People know it exist dont worry about that, if they dont play them its because no one like that, no one want to play water map, there no action, its borring and a game is generally 1 hour or more, most of peoples play 1 game and must go back in real life after. There like 4 players on the server who like that, the rest dont. Its already hard to convict peoples to play random maps, if you also want them to play map they dont like, then no one will play your ladder at all, i know you dont play this game alor sir, but maybe you should let the map pool selection to someone with more experience. Or i guess you will have build this ladder for nothing, you just cant throw random maps in that pool, i know it said random, but random dont necessairly mean random, it mean we dont know what map we gonna get once we create, but in general, maps must be choose carefully with smart decisions, putting water maps, free ressource map or critter maps with full muttons that block you to build is not what gonna help the ladder, believe me, good luck bro. 
« Last Edit: June 23, 2024, 06:40:53 PM by Nox »
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Offline pianolarva

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Re: how to play new ladder
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2024, 06:48:24 PM »
That's a happy tone. I was wondering why people didn't play sea maps when it's one of the main features of the game. And it's not like the battles are all about the sea which could get boring like Nox says.

Offline Nox

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Re: how to play new ladder
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2024, 06:53:52 PM »
The main reason why people dont play them, its mostly because its basicly a 1 hour game, and most peoples log for an hour or two, so when they log they hope to play 3-4-5-6 games, but if they play water maps, they will play 1 or 2 games. For my own part, i just think its borring, i have no fun at all playing this to be honnest, making a boat to transfert 6 units to another island, yeah, not for me.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2024, 06:56:20 PM by Nox »
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Offline dannyldd

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Re: how to play new ladder
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2024, 06:56:38 PM »
ye i can make posts with maps pool on each new seasons
and people must be able to play many types of maps, ofc there will not be something like ums maps with changed stats or etc
but there must be always at least 1 water map
Warcraft 2 is also sea battles, even if many peoples forgetting about it often

You really think peoples dont play water maps because they forgot it exist?? People know it exist dont worry about that, if they dont play them its because no one like that, no one want to play water map, there no action, its borring and a game is generally 1 hour or more, most of peoples play 1 game and must go back in real life after. There like 4 players on the server who like that, the rest dont. Its already hard to convict peoples to play random maps, if you also want them to play map they dont like, then no one will play your ladder at all, i know you dont play this game alor sir, but maybe you should let the map pool selection to someone with more experience. Or i guess you will have build this ladder for nothing, you just cant throw random maps in that pool, i know it said random, but random dont necessairly mean random, it mean we dont know what map we gonna get once we create, but in general, maps must be choose carefully with smart decisions, putting water maps, free ressource map or critter maps with full muttons that block you to build is not what gonna help the ladder, believe me, good luck bro. 

please show respect to Ed, he did a lot for this game since like 2020. He really deserves so much respect. Even if you dont like this new ladder random system by him.

You're still free to keep playing Gardens of War and nothing else.

It's still better in the end of the day to have more variability, rather than nothing. And just keep hosting Gardens of War or Chop non-stop.

Offline Nox

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Re: how to play new ladder
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2024, 07:01:57 PM »
ye i can make posts with maps pool on each new seasons
and people must be able to play many types of maps, ofc there will not be something like ums maps with changed stats or etc
but there must be always at least 1 water map
Warcraft 2 is also sea battles, even if many peoples forgetting about it often

You really think peoples dont play water maps because they forgot it exist?? People know it exist dont worry about that, if they dont play them its because no one like that, no one want to play water map, there no action, its borring and a game is generally 1 hour or more, most of peoples play 1 game and must go back in real life after. There like 4 players on the server who like that, the rest dont. Its already hard to convict peoples to play random maps, if you also want them to play map they dont like, then no one will play your ladder at all, i know you dont play this game alor sir, but maybe you should let the map pool selection to someone with more experience. Or i guess you will have build this ladder for nothing, you just cant throw random maps in that pool, i know it said random, but random dont necessairly mean random, it mean we dont know what map we gonna get once we create, but in general, maps must be choose carefully with smart decisions, putting water maps, free ressource map or critter maps with full muttons that block you to build is not what gonna help the ladder, believe me, good luck bro. 

please show respect to Ed, he did a lot for this game since like 2020. He really deserves so much respect. Even if you dont like this new ladder random system by him.

You're still free to keep playing Gardens of War and nothing else.

It's still better in the end of the day to have more variability, rather than nothing. And just keep hosting Gardens of War or Chop non-stop.

Im actually the first who have show respect to him by being the first and mostly the only one to comment his thread, i dont do this to be bad with him, i do this because i hope the ladder work, when you say he did this since 2020, dont forgot i did this since 2002, so my experience at this game is pretty much on top. Dont forgot something too, he dint create this ladder yesterday, he create this ladder 6 month ago, and for the last 6 months nobody dint cares at all about it, so maybe he need someone like me to tell him why it dont work. Dont be offended because someone actually cares of him and his ladder and want to help him.
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Offline dannyldd

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Re: how to play new ladder
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2024, 07:31:51 PM »
ye i can make posts with maps pool on each new seasons
and people must be able to play many types of maps, ofc there will not be something like ums maps with changed stats or etc
but there must be always at least 1 water map
Warcraft 2 is also sea battles, even if many peoples forgetting about it often

You really think peoples dont play water maps because they forgot it exist?? People know it exist dont worry about that, if they dont play them its because no one like that, no one want to play water map, there no action, its borring and a game is generally 1 hour or more, most of peoples play 1 game and must go back in real life after. There like 4 players on the server who like that, the rest dont. Its already hard to convict peoples to play random maps, if you also want them to play map they dont like, then no one will play your ladder at all, i know you dont play this game alor sir, but maybe you should let the map pool selection to someone with more experience. Or i guess you will have build this ladder for nothing, you just cant throw random maps in that pool, i know it said random, but random dont necessairly mean random, it mean we dont know what map we gonna get once we create, but in general, maps must be choose carefully with smart decisions, putting water maps, free ressource map or critter maps with full muttons that block you to build is not what gonna help the ladder, believe me, good luck bro. 

please show respect to Ed, he did a lot for this game since like 2020. He really deserves so much respect. Even if you dont like this new ladder random system by him.

You're still free to keep playing Gardens of War and nothing else.

It's still better in the end of the day to have more variability, rather than nothing. And just keep hosting Gardens of War or Chop non-stop.

Im actually the first who have show respect to him by being the first and mostly the only one to comment his thread, i dont do this to be bad with him, i do this because i hope the ladder work, when you say he did this since 2020, dont forgot i did this since 2002, so my experience at this game is pretty much on top. Dont forgot something too, he dint create this ladder yesterday, he create this ladder 6 month ago, and for the last 6 months nobody dint cares at all about it, so maybe he need someone like me to tell him why it dont work. Dont be offended because someone actually cares of him and his ladder and want to help him.

It's not Ed's fault that people are too square mind and conservative. He tries to innovate with it.

I like water maps because its just a good relief from the non stop gardens of war & chop obsession

--

And if you would like something that "people play" then that would just mean to make a Gardens of War/Chop ladder, pretty much, which is moving an inch further from innovating.

Offline Szwagier

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Re: how to play new ladder
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2024, 04:02:30 AM »
every sea map suck, ships are too expensive and if you dont have oil game is over

I dont know why person who is not playing multiplayer is talking about what we should play AGAIN

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Offline tk[as]

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Re: how to play new ladder
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2024, 06:54:27 AM »
I can't even get on the server any more

Offline {Lance}

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Re: how to play new ladder
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2024, 08:10:19 PM »
Why are you using a glicko/elo system (AKA: grindstone) as the main means to climb a ladder?  Being able to gain #1, 2 ,3 4,5,6 ,7 etc without ever playing anyone in the top tier is completely absurd.  NEVER use blizzard as an example to develop a "competitive" anything.  They are all about grinding.  Not competition.  Their goal is to keep people playing constantly (AKA grinding),  not find the best players.  The only true ranking system is literally a runged system.  Good examples of this are ANY sports tournaments.  NFL, MLB, NBA,  etc.  To get to the top, you have to beat the top.  Simple.

Glicko/Elo is a secondary STATISTIC.  Not a main ranking tool. Just like wins/losses are not a ranking tool.  See the 2007 Patriots for proof of that.  Hell even chess (which is where glicko/elo comes from) does not use these as a ranking method for competition.  The only thing its used for is seeding in tourneys where the players have never played each other before (not the case in war2).  Check any of the 1000s of chess ladders and you'll find they all use RUNG as the ranking methods where you can sort by glicko/elo if you want but its not the main sorting filter.  IMO it's nothing more than a "I play a lot" badge.

Blizzard uses it as a way to "match" players of similar skill but it usually fails miserably.  Other games do the same thing,  use it for matchmaking.  But none of them use it for a ladder (except for blizzard because they are retards).

If you want a successful ladder,  you cant use elo/glicko as it's main method of climbing the ladder.  It was created because there were to many players in the world who play chess and a method to compare chess players who've never played each other before was needed.  Use it for what it's supposed to be used for,  just a statistic/rating.  Not a ladder climbing method.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2024, 08:31:53 PM by {Lance} »
Dk At hall is cause I started with temple at start and didn't need the castle . Not a hack .  I wouldn't bother editing a ss btw

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