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Infants Welcome 19942  40

Moderator Sappers Posts: 955 Karma: +60/-11 Live free or die *****

BabyShark

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Re: Infants Welcome
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2017, 11:46:03 AM »
@eyyy im walkin here
Look like BS kicked me from the moderated section. I need to my posting rights back. She on my ignore list because she spew nonsense. Why she is even given any rights at all is a mystery to me.

The moderated section is just that. The moderated section. There are rules for conduct, and you broke the rules in calling another person a "retard".

You are not above the rules. The rules apply to everyone.

You are the one spewing nonsense and hate because you can't support your worldview and opinions with goodness or truth or logic or reason, so your only course of action left is to shoot the messenger.

Your continual attacks on me for no reason show what kind of a person you are, not what kind if a person I am. If I go around calling people "retard", I'm showing my own frustration, disrespect, immaturity, and poor character. Aren't you a grown-up?

Have you considered trying to act like one?
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Re: Infants Welcome
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2017, 11:57:54 AM »
well i mean tora you did call her retarded, and the whole purpose of the moderated forum is to create a place free from insults and personal attacks, so being sent to the pen seems fair. on another level however i am with you, in that i don't really like the idea that one can make sweeping and ignorant and offensive claims about an entire religion as long as they act poised and respectable while doing it... and then people who lash out at that person get punished for lashing out. i saw lightbringer, who is muslim, popped in and was like "what the hell is all this, and this person is a moderator?!" a sentiment i find very sympathetic. but that seems to be the way of it right now. also, babyshark's pov itself comes from an extremely cultural and religious place, where islam being evil is basically an article of faith, so she earnestly believes her arguments are both right and important, urgent even... there is really no point in diving into those sorts of arguments imo with someone so devoted to their cause.  nothing will change, nothing will be learned, i am just ignoring those threads
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Re: Infants Welcome
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2017, 12:00:52 PM »
I genuinely don't care about being banned from the moderated section. Its essentially BS's playpen. I don't even read her posts.
Just remove "infants" from my name and I'll drop this issue. And FYI I was adressing LB not BS and he did cut into her. Only reason he not banned is cause he a global mod on the forum.
"The Architect" Global Moderator Dragon Posts: 5284 Karma: +209/-112 *****

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Re: Infants Welcome
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2017, 12:06:28 PM »
ok i think i can
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Re: Infants Welcome
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2017, 01:08:29 PM »
on another level however i am with you, in that i don't really like the idea that one can make sweeping and ignorant and offensive claims about an entire religion as long as they act poised and respectable while doing it... and then people who lash out at that person get punished for lashing out.
why does it have to be an act? coherently organizing & presenting a stance requires critical thinking, understanding & presenting evidence, etc etc. it's also a great way to expose any flaws & misconceptions in one's reasoning, and it can't happen if someone is instantly heckled into silence every time they open their mouth. being wrong is not a crime & should not be stigmatized on any level.

so she earnestly believes her arguments are both right and important, urgent even...
as you say, there's no malicious intent here.

there is really no point in diving into those sorts of arguments imo with someone so devoted to their cause.  nothing will change, nothing will be learned, i am just ignoring those threads
sanctimoniously writing someone off altogether and/or telling them to kill themselves have even lower success rates in fact. those sentiments commit the exact same mistake as so-called ignorant & offensive claim-makers in that they subjectively write off & counterpose themselves to x group of people based on y parameter. "oh, you don't think exactly what i do at this exact moment, regardless of your upbringing or education or social context? you must be an ignorant mouthbreathing retard, there's no helping you, do everyone a favor and go kill yourself!" this attitude to me is far worse than just being ignorant/wrong, as it implies enough knowledge to see the shortcomings in someone's reasoning but a complete unwillingness to make any effort to correct them. (or else is itself based on incompletely understood reasoning & thus incapable of producing coherent retorts..) it echoes every other form of bigotry ever in essentially saying "we don't like you, you aren't worth cooperating with on any level, get away from us". such behavior is just inarguably a sad & hypocritical sham for anyone or anything purporting to be leftist & progressive. (not specifically directed towards you blid, i think you succeed in being very patient & measured quite consistently)

anyway @BabyShark as far as fair & equal treatment across the board, any forum on the internet is going to have a caveat in their rules that leaves ultimate determinations up to the moderators and their individual common sense/discretion. no one "knows" for sure how serious ripe is about his ill intent, but we do know that it came across as disturbing enough that we don't want the guy here. i think in general it's best not to get too caught up in the minutia of war2 & its moderation practices as it really does represent a very small part of our overall lives. we do our best here, but at the same time nothing will ever be "perfect"!

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Re: Infants Welcome
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2017, 03:44:07 PM »
as far as the "respectability" debate goes, you make good points and that was a thoughtful post, but in my view, certain ideas, no matter how politely expressed, are violent or hateful.  i think in the case of a dispassionate, careful argument about why jews are the untermensch, for instance, a respectful response only legitimizes an ugly and inherently violent point of view.  if someone replied to that person with "kill yourself, anti-semite retard," i think that's a valid expression of the type of strident disdain that such an argument deserves, and banning the respondent for being crude and offensive, while letting the nazi carry on, is actually its own type of bias toward civility over any sort of righteousness or fairer world. 

that's why i like the rules post in forum affairs that ropes off religious, racial, and sexual intolerance and precludes those issues from being "up for debate."  i dont think that takes too much discussion off the table and i think it works well.  when, in general forum, babyshark violates that rule, and then other people violate the rules in turn with insults and death wishes, i've treated everyone equally by simply trashing the thread into the flame forum altogether instead of singling anyone out.  i don't personally think it's good to tell lightbringer, tora, and other muslim people that they just need to deal with someone posting a steady stream of anti-muslim hate propaganda. 

i do realize that babyshark actually does think that the very concept of islam is dangerous and feels that being silenced on that issue is pc censorship.  i believe if she wants to have those discussions, we offer a place for that type of argument: the flame forum, where claw has had many long debates justifying racism.  i believe a safe, moderated space for babyshark to post about other topics is a good thing, but i dont believe islamophobic arguments belong there.

you have a different view on debate and you explained your philosophy pretty well above, and i respect that.  if you prefer to give bs a safe place to espouse her anti-islam views free from abusive repercussions, that's okay!  i will not be responding to it, however, in part because i don't wish to give such views any oxygen, but also because i believe it would be a waste of breath.  i actually think it's more sanctimonious & arrogant to think i could persuade someone into uprooting their entire belief structure than it is to recognize that we're at an impasse.  in many cases up-ending that person's belief structure would literally mean destroying that person's identity.  it's just not gonna happen.  thank you
Moderator Sappers Posts: 955 Karma: +60/-11 Live free or die *****

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Re: Infants Welcome
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2017, 08:41:09 PM »










Server Admin Death Knight Posts: 3207 Karma: +146/-11 The General *****

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Re: Infants Welcome
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2017, 05:15:59 AM »
i do realize that babyshark actually does think that the very concept of islam is dangerous and feels that being silenced on that issue is pc censorship.  i believe if she wants to have those discussions, we offer a place for that type of argument: the flame forum, where claw has had many long debates justifying racism.  i believe a safe, moderated space for babyshark to post about other topics is a good thing, but i dont believe islamophobic arguments belong there.

If someone really does believe one group of people is inferior based soely on their race, gender, religion, disability, age/etc that isn't acceptable in modern society. This is an internet forum at the end of the day where everyone is basically anonymous  so I guess it's not that big a deal.
However I really don't think someone should be made a mod on the forums if they openly declare their intolerance of a group and constantly attack said group.
Moderator Sappers Posts: 955 Karma: +60/-11 Live free or die *****

BabyShark

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Re: Infants Welcome
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2017, 09:35:50 AM »
If someone really does believe one group of people is inferior based soely on their race, gender, religion, disability, age/etc that isn't acceptable in modern society. This is an internet forum at the end of the day where everyone is basically anonymous  so I guess it's not that big a deal.
However I really don't think someone should be made a mod on the forums if they openly declare their intolerance of a group and constantly attack said group.

I do not believe any group is inferior base. Neither does Jesus. The message of the love of Jesus is for ALL people, men, women, young, old, blind, seeing, crippled, lame, homeless, Jews, Muslims, Hindus...Jesus loves all people.

You, on the other hand, have repeatedly dehumanized me based on my being a female, thinking it is somehow appropriate to attack my female body parts (illegal sexual harassment and discrimination) because you don't agree with my views, as seen here:

Babyshark has lived her entire life as a flat chested women. I'm sure realizing she will never be as beautiful as the other women of the world has made her turn extremest in her religion and ideology.

Stop being a hypocrite and pretending that you don't see women as objects and below you, when you talk about them as less than human, as though a woman's purpose in the universe is solely to provide sexual gratification to you.

In the same post, you also belittle and insult my religion, so don't pretend that you don't discriminate against my religion, either. For some reason, anti-Christian hate and criticism is allowed, and you want your religion to have magical and special protection from even being openly and respectfully discussed, ie. by ex-Muslims who have experiences to share and by reading the actual Quran.

Here you manage to be both sexist and racist in one post:

I know claw is racist cause he has never touched a black women before and probably never will.
He would rather stick with white women whom may I add all wear padded bras that make it look like they have a rack. But once the bra come off their flat as a pancake.

So don't stand on a pedestal and pretend you stand against racism or sexism or religious discrimination when your speech shows otherwise.

You want to abolish freedom of speech.

I do not.

I have never tried to silence other viewpoints, only abusive and slanderous speech that is not constructive or useful to anyone.
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Re: Infants Welcome
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2017, 01:38:43 PM »
Ripe appears to be completely unhinged and the fact he has a child is disturbing.
Being from Finland he probably hardly ever comes in contact with Muslims or black people yet he acts like they're a detriment to whatever his idea of "Western way of life" is. It shows how strong xenophobia together with vicious propaganda in the media can create an unthinking racist baboon. It creates already unhinged people to go and stab politicians simply because they hold favourable policies towards immigrants. http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/18/europe/germany-candidate-stabbing-migration/index.html 
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42149444
Reactionaries like Ripe are a toxic byproduct of a capitalist society which feasts off racism.
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Re: Infants Welcome
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2018, 10:51:29 AM »
Wow didnt even knew the existence of this part of the forum...

I would like to stand in defense of Ripe.
Not to what Ripe said or what Ripe feels about immigrants. But to the reason why Ripe feels like that!

Most European (especially North) countries are pretty isolated. The term foreigner is a scary term!
Immigration to them seems inappropriate and scary.

In the USA you have lived in harmony with many different races, nationalities and that makes you tolerant.
But when something strange for your society appears aren't you reacting exactly like Ripe?

Example: ISIS (well you will tell me it is not the same, they kill people, they use slavery etc... and yes you are right but it is exactly the same)

Immigrants in Finland is like ISIS in the USA.

Ripe is just afraid of what he doesn't know. It is normal... We should not ban him. We should teach him that immigrants are people like me, you and him...

At least that is what I personally believe.