Author Topic: new ELO ladder  (Read 7823 times)

Offline Mistral

  • Administrator
  • Axe Thrower
  • *****
  • Posts: 360
    • View Profile
new ELO ladder
« on: September 28, 2023, 07:09:47 AM »
so i have created new ladded that working entirely on ELO system
there is no ranks like in old ladder, your place determined only by ELO

http://ladder.war2.ru/index_mist.php

this thing exists together with old ladder, so dont worry they not affect each other AT ALL.

to get listed in this ladder you must play 1v1 from random maps game mode (old cursed ironman replacement)
to do this you need to host map Random/random.pud in melee mode (host vs player2 + player3 spot for obs)
other settings not matter because they will be set to map default anyways
(dont worry most of maps have high res by default, usage of map def was maked in considiretion of maps like chop)
also you always will have needed maps because they are downloaded automatically on server join

there is many ways to improve things
maps for this ladder game mode can be changed every month or 3 months and etc etc
maps of next season can be choosen with votes poll or some honourable members of community can suggest some maps
maybe also allow top1 (and maybe 2 and 3) ELO players of each season select 1 map to be added to next pack
very many things need your opinions and suggestions

so for now there set pack of some 12 random maps for initial testing until october 1 where we will get new pack of maps for first season
we waiting for your offers, maybe it will be you who will make life-changing suggestion

p.s.
all ELO formulas is open so not ask why you got too little X points or other player got too many Y points and etc.
Starting ELO for new players is 1000 points
After playing the game new ELO calculated as follows:
for winner: new_elo = win_old_elo + round((1-(1/(1+pow(10, -(win_old_elo - lose_old_elo)*base_points/mid_elo))))*win_koef)
for loser: new_elo = lose_old_elo - round((1/(1+pow(10, -(lose_old_elo - win_old_elo)*base_points/mid_elo)))*lose_koef)
where base_points for game is 10 and mid_elo is 400
win and lose koef starting at 120 and calculated based on player amount of games and after around 60 to 100 games will be normalized to 40 points (up to 200% XP players get 3% for win and 2% for lose)
« Last Edit: September 29, 2023, 12:55:37 PM by Mistral »

Offline Dudakurten

  • Moderator
  • Berserker
  • *****
  • Posts: 609
    • View Profile
Re: new ELO ladder
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2023, 05:55:29 PM »
That’s amazing . We have good opportunities here to choice / test formats.

My suggestion in discuss the duration of each season, how many maps should be added per season ( I think gow classic should be always in the pool), and others things. Maybe player give few ideas here and we creat pools for each topic ?

Mistral , what happens if there are observers, or if player losing the game disconnect or type /obs me?

Also if both players don’t like the map and decide to AV or leave when is draw ? Just thinking in what players can try to do hehe

Offline Mistral

  • Administrator
  • Axe Thrower
  • *****
  • Posts: 360
    • View Profile
Re: new ELO ladder
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2023, 06:28:25 PM »
obs counting happens the same as old ladder - by stats
so if he have only 1 unit and not builded ahyting they ignored
which is basically ok for starting obs becoz he only have 1 invisible peon
/obs me considered as surrender so game report says LOSE
disconnect is same as old ladder

Offline BGN

  • Peon
  • **
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Re: new ELO ladder
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2023, 01:41:17 PM »
I really like that man great job, but here some things, i think that will improve alot.

Ive watch into the Random maps folder, and it seem there already 12 maps listed in the folder.

I think 12 maps is way too much, 12 maps will not feel alright, the brain want different maps for sure,
but not too much, too much is hard to learn in 3 months, i think 4-8 maps will be great.

What can be even greater, is to add 4 maps in the beginning of the season, then every 2 weeks, you can add one more.

It will break the normal routine and will just be more enjoyable at the end with new content every 2 weeks.

Also, when you start a season, you could make a forum post or use the original website to make a post about it,
and you should present picture of every maps in the pools, it's hard for peoples to get interess on something if there no presentation for it and we dont already know what maps look like.

I also agree with duda that gow ef must be in every pools, it should be a basic map every season, peoples need reason to play that ladder,
gow is one of the biggest reason why peoples will play or not play it, you want different maps sure, but without removing the most played one.

Anyway, good job, it's appreciated.



« Last Edit: September 29, 2023, 01:48:35 PM by BGN »

Offline Mistral

  • Administrator
  • Axe Thrower
  • *****
  • Posts: 360
    • View Profile
Re: new ELO ladder
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2023, 02:10:28 PM »
nice :newthumbsup:

there is 12 maps now just for testing and also for tournament that will be played tommorow on random maps

so ye there can be always gow or maybe some variation of gow like gow te gow bne and etc
(maybe can even make one season with 10 different versions of gow maps ;) )

i also think maps amount not need be very big like 10 or something is ok
so every season can be new maps and existing good/classic maps will not end so fast with small portions used every time

so ye about gow "EF" (or not gow, basically about speed) - speed will be as hoster set, if he hosted even slowest game will be even slowest and etc :)

personally i think it also must always have at least 1 water map, because war2 is a game on "land water air" as even blizzard themselves was saying

Offline Dudakurten

  • Moderator
  • Berserker
  • *****
  • Posts: 609
    • View Profile
Re: new ELO ladder
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2023, 03:58:11 PM »
Come on , finally we have a ladder fixed and only me and Eq showed some interest.

I am not on top of that and I got no time for the moment however I will proceed with the following.
Will host separated topics/pools to have community opinion to get to an ideal ladder format.


Offline Dudakurten

  • Moderator
  • Berserker
  • *****
  • Posts: 609
    • View Profile
Re: new ELO ladder
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2023, 04:18:00 PM »
I tried to cover the main points with my pools.

Its open for discussion each theme, also here if should have additional pools.

After voting everyone can see who voted in which option as well to be transparent.

Of course Mistral also will need to correct if I said something impossible to do haha (sorry in advance).

Offline Dudakurten

  • Moderator
  • Berserker
  • *****
  • Posts: 609
    • View Profile
Re: new ELO ladder
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2023, 06:44:14 AM »
Omed is new on forum and want to vote. It’s not giving his this option I believe because new user?

Nickname: Demo

Offline Mistral

  • Administrator
  • Axe Thrower
  • *****
  • Posts: 360
    • View Profile
Re: new ELO ladder
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2023, 10:36:44 AM »
yes probably he need to write at least 3 approved posts to become normal user
this is protection from some bots and smurfs and it was set on forum long very long ago
it was here even before i joined

Offline Demo

  • Peon
  • **
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: new ELO ladder
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2023, 12:58:00 PM »
Ok

Offline Demo

  • Peon
  • **
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: new ELO ladder
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2023, 12:58:20 PM »
Ok2

Offline Demo

  • Peon
  • **
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: new ELO ladder
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2023, 01:23:19 PM »
ok3

Offline 8)MikulZ(8

  • Grunt
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
    • View Profile
Re: new ELO ladder
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2023, 03:51:13 PM »
This is awesome, finally we have a proper ladder with elo  :slight_smile: Thank you for making this happen Mistral  :chuckisthemuscle:

Offline Dudakurten

  • Moderator
  • Berserker
  • *****
  • Posts: 609
    • View Profile
Re: new ELO ladder
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2023, 12:41:37 PM »
Ok I did few games today and I have questions/doubts.

(i) I created a game on Top vs bottom, will not count for the mist ladder correct?

(ii) I noted all games were tileset Forrest, including POS which default is SNOW. DId I set something wrong? Is it possible to have map default tileset?

(iii) One game started with 2 peons which was nice actually, different.

(iv) All games were high resources. In the future is it possible to set in advance on the map pool (i.e: every time is b2b BNE is low res)?

(v) Is it possible to at least say the name of the map after you press start or when the game start? xD

(vi) Maybe the mist ladder ranking to show on the Ladder menu on the bnet screen (that icon on the left)?

Thanks , I had fun and crush Un4 as usual!

Offline Mistral

  • Administrator
  • Axe Thrower
  • *****
  • Posts: 360
    • View Profile
Re: new ELO ladder
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2023, 02:27:33 PM »
yes only count when hosted melee game mode

yes map def tileset

2 peons was in one of testing maps to check map default starting units

resources are map def so you can just set 2 same maps in folder but with diff res if needed
res map def was maked in considerations of maps like chop and etc

no no possible i specially maked that map was not revealed until last moment, basically map being selected only after timer when screen is black and right exactly on before when map file will be loaded

i dunno how to show it on bnet