Warcraft II Forum

Warcraft II => Server.War2.ru => Topic started by: LoRyS.iT on May 04, 2021, 08:17:55 AM

Title: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: LoRyS.iT on May 04, 2021, 08:17:55 AM
how does the ladder demoting sistem works?

i was like @13 and now im @21 altho i recently played:

Medivh (#12) defeated Lorys.it (#13) on "Garden of War" at 23:24:49 on 04/30/2021.
Medivh (#12) defeated Lorys.it (#13) on "Garden of War" at 23:20:30 on 04/30/2021.
Medivh (#12) defeated Lorys.it (#13) on "Garden of War" at 23:10:00 on 04/30/2021.
Lorys.it (#13 → #12) defeated
Medivh (#12 → #13) on "Garden of War" at 23:00:18 on 04/30/2021.
Medivh (#11) defeated Lorys.it (#12) on "Garden of War" at 22:48:25 on 04/30/2021.

just curious
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: tk[as] on May 04, 2021, 09:10:14 AM
You've not been demoted. Other people passed you in rank.

Doesnt take long to move from a top spot to a low spot if you're not playing, while others are.
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: Szwagier on May 04, 2021, 09:37:39 AM
ladder is bad, if you are 10 your opponent is 11 you will win 20 games in row, but you will lose last one you will be 11  :poo:

Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: baRa on May 04, 2021, 10:54:11 AM
What is the point of this ladder anyway? It's a Neverending ongoing ladder with 50,000+ names on it. I've mentioned this before, but can't we revamp it and actually have it serve a useful purpose?

Have ladder seasons of 2-3 months each with a champ of each season

End of year Tourney with all season winners

Get promoted/demoted to different tiers (like sc2, GM, diamond, gold etc)

Use MMR

I'm sure there are alot of other great ideas we could implement. I know you will say no one cares about the ladder enough to justify the time and changes made. Obviously it's just a game and doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. However people still obviously care about it if they're asking questions etc.

I think it's worth looking into.
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: Szwagier on May 04, 2021, 01:20:47 PM


Have ladder seasons of 2-3 months each with a champ of each season

End of year Tourney with all season winners

Get promoted/demoted to different tiers (like sc2, GM, diamond, gold etc)

Use MMR

sure lets ban all smurfs, 1 player = 1 account
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: baRa on May 04, 2021, 03:41:36 PM
Not sure if sarcastic. But if thats what people want that's fine. Or only 1 name in top 10 allowed etc
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: tk[as] on May 04, 2021, 05:16:22 PM
i tried removing smurf/duplicate names from top 20, but a couple people literally make new names every week and get them to top 20 on ladder.

that shit got old real fast.. like 1 step forward, 2 steps backwards all the time.
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: Nox on May 04, 2021, 07:48:58 PM
i tried removing smurf/duplicate names from top 20, but a couple people literally make new names every week and get them to top 20 on ladder.

that shit got old real fast.. like 1 step forward, 2 steps backwards all the time.


You try, you try... You dint try bro, you are logged once per week lol... Anyway why the hell there only 1 guy who take cares of that?? And why lil dint reset that 20 years old useless ladder yet...

Staff is so useless at this game, tell him to just let peoples who got time to take cares of that, and he can keep making useless updates that nobody cares.
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: baRa on May 04, 2021, 11:11:24 PM
Well I mean people complain that there's no new players coming in, the game is dying, Yada Yada Yada. But refuse to implement modern things to make gaming interesting. I'm not super competitive these days but it would be nice for something to look forward to (like an end to a ladder season) and just to get that "oh hey I'm #4 this season" kinda thing. As opposed to a Neverending ladder with no actual point to it. I'm sure others would agree. No matter how casual a player is everyone still likes to play competitive games. There is no real point of mods these days to be honest. If the only thing mods do is transfer stats from various names then let the user do that themselves somehow.
Ive been saying this since I came back in 2019. This game needs universal automatic updates so everyone is on the same playing field, same plug-ins etc. I get the nostalgicness of the game is important but so is keeping it up to date.

We could learn alot if we take a look at starcraft 1 BW. The game is just about as old as this but still brings in super competitive matches and tourneys. They still get updates with new map pools for the new ladder season. Can't we do that as well? Each new ladder season let's say gets a new 10 map pool to 1v1 on. It would keep things interesting instead of just GOW. Even for people watching streams imagine how interesting it would be for them when you're 1v1ing someone on the last few days of the ladder season with the #1 spot up for grabs, they also like to see an assortment of maps. Thus helping the game grow.
Maybe I'm just talking to a wall because I don't think any of this will realistically happen, just wishful thinking.
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: ~ToRa~ on May 05, 2021, 04:22:43 AM
Have ladder seasons of 2-3 months each with a champ of each season

End of year Tourney with all season winners

Get promoted/demoted to different tiers (like sc2, GM, diamond, gold etc)

Nah. Our player base too old to take anything like this seriously. Players generally just log in play a few game and chat with friends then log off.
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: ~ToRa~ on May 05, 2021, 04:25:03 AM
Well I mean people complain that there's no new players coming in, the game is dying, Yada Yada Yada. But refuse to implement modern things to make gaming interesting. I'm not super competitive these days but it would be nice for something to look forward to (like an end to a ladder season) and just to get that "oh hey I'm #4 this season" kinda thing. As opposed to a Neverending ladder with no actual point to it. I'm sure others would agree. No matter how casual a player is everyone still likes to play competitive games. There is no real point of mods these days to be honest. If the only thing mods do is transfer stats from various names then let the user do that themselves somehow.
Ive been saying this since I came back in 2019. This game needs universal automatic updates so everyone is on the same playing field, same plug-ins etc. I get the nostalgicness of the game is important but so is keeping it up to date.

We could learn alot if we take a look at starcraft 1 BW. The game is just about as old as this but still brings in super competitive matches and tourneys. They still get updates with new map pools for the new ladder season. Can't we do that as well? Each new ladder season let's say gets a new 10 map pool to 1v1 on. It would keep things interesting instead of just GOW. Even for people watching streams imagine how interesting it would be for them when you're 1v1ing someone on the last few days of the ladder season with the #1 spot up for grabs, they also like to see an assortment of maps. Thus helping the game grow.
Maybe I'm just talking to a wall because I don't think any of this will realistically happen, just wishful thinking.

Not really fair to compare our community with “starcraft.” Starcraft is being run by blizzard while we are being run by volunteers.
But if your willing to assist in this endeavor Bara maybe we can look more into this idea.
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: ~ToRa~ on May 05, 2021, 04:27:16 AM
sure lets ban all smurfs, 1 player = 1 account

That is the only real way to fix the ladder. But it’s too unpopular an idea for it to ever be implemented.
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: Nox on May 05, 2021, 07:00:25 AM
Well I mean people complain that there's no new players coming in, the game is dying, Yada Yada Yada. But refuse to implement modern things to make gaming interesting. I'm not super competitive these days but it would be nice for something to look forward to (like an end to a ladder season) and just to get that "oh hey I'm #4 this season" kinda thing. As opposed to a Neverending ladder with no actual point to it. I'm sure others would agree. No matter how casual a player is everyone still likes to play competitive games. There is no real point of mods these days to be honest. If the only thing mods do is transfer stats from various names then let the user do that themselves somehow.
Ive been saying this since I came back in 2019. This game needs universal automatic updates so everyone is on the same playing field, same plug-ins etc. I get the nostalgicness of the game is important but so is keeping it up to date.

We could learn alot if we take a look at starcraft 1 BW. The game is just about as old as this but still brings in super competitive matches and tourneys. They still get updates with new map pools for the new ladder season. Can't we do that as well? Each new ladder season let's say gets a new 10 map pool to 1v1 on. It would keep things interesting instead of just GOW. Even for people watching streams imagine how interesting it would be for them when you're 1v1ing someone on the last few days of the ladder season with the #1 spot up for grabs, they also like to see an assortment of maps. Thus helping the game grow.
Maybe I'm just talking to a wall because I don't think any of this will realistically happen, just wishful thinking.
But if your willing to assist in this endeavor Bara maybe we can look more into this idea.

So when he take cares of it like a champ and take decision you will be able to talkshit in his back and saying to peoples ur about to solve his case  :sob: :sob: :sob:
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: Knitter on May 05, 2021, 12:19:51 PM
What is the point of this ladder anyway? It's a Neverending ongoing ladder with 50,000+ names on it. I've mentioned this before, but can't we revamp it and actually have it serve a useful purpose?

Have ladder seasons of 2-3 months each with a champ of each season

End of year Tourney with all season winners

Get promoted/demoted to different tiers (like sc2, GM, diamond, gold etc)

Use MMR

I'm sure there are alot of other great ideas we could implement. I know you will say no one cares about the ladder enough to justify the time and changes made. Obviously it's just a game and doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. However people still obviously care about it if they're asking questions etc.

I think it's worth looking into.

I would like it... great idea @baRa
Also i think ladder should be shorter. Like each month a new ladder.
End of the year you got 12 ladder winners and can plan a 12men ladder winner tourney.

If a player allready won a ladder and manage to be on top on another month, 2nd player gets the ticket.

Also could have icons April Champ etc.... w/e community wants to.




Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: baRa on May 05, 2021, 02:08:24 PM
Have ladder seasons of 2-3 months each with a champ of each season

End of year Tourney with all season winners

Get promoted/demoted to different tiers (like sc2, GM, diamond, gold etc)

Nah. Our player base too old to take anything like this seriously. Players generally just log in play a few game and chat with friends then log off.


I understand what you mean, but somehow we still get tournies here and there with participants. We don't even need to do it "tourney" style where it's done in 1 day. Make it so they play each other within a specific time frame of 1 week or so so its more flexible. I think it could work.

I don't mind helping out with something like this. I wouldn't be able to help with any technical stuff because I'm retarded In that aspect but I could help for sure. I could even set time aside with the end of the season tourney and do some commentary live or on replays. Anything would help grow the game right.
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: Szwagier on May 05, 2021, 03:39:20 PM
problem is again map, community play only gow
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: baRa on May 05, 2021, 05:24:10 PM
Thats why you do a 8-10 map pool and it's different for each ladder season. Only those specific maps are for the ladder. Make it like the Ironman was and have it choose random map from that map pool for the game. We have alot of smart people in this community who can make this stuff happen, unfortunately I'm not one of them.
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on May 06, 2021, 10:36:08 AM
What is the point of this ladder anyway? It's a Neverending ongoing ladder with 50,000+ names on it. I've mentioned this before, but can't we revamp it and actually have it serve a useful purpose?

Have ladder seasons of 2-3 months each with a champ of each season

End of year Tourney with all season winners

Get promoted/demoted to different tiers (like sc2, GM, diamond, gold etc)

Use MMR

I'm sure there are alot of other great ideas we could implement. I know you will say no one cares about the ladder enough to justify the time and changes made. Obviously it's just a game and doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. However people still obviously care about it if they're asking questions etc.

I think it's worth looking into.
There's two issues with this ladder.  #1 is that people like having their old game history on there so don't want that wiped.  #2 is that there's always been a concern with the skill ratings that someone will just collect free wins or stomp newbs to earn points with no risk of losing at all.

The point is just to get as high as you can, and if you can get #1, hold it and defend it.

That's not to say seasons are a bad idea.  I think it could be interesting to leave the game history on there but erase everyone's ranks, or everyone's skill rating, and then see who is where at the end of a given season.  However, if we go by skill rating it might just be whoever plays the most games to accumulate the most skills points, and if we go by the current rung ranking system, then we can run into accusations of dodging and having to enforce the people on top to play to let those below have a chance to gain...

I don't mean it's not worth doing, those are just the things to consider.
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: aLfReD on May 06, 2021, 01:05:38 PM
Just sort by ELO
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: LoRyS.iT on May 06, 2021, 01:06:19 PM
We should accept the fact that its a 1995 game and we are in 2021 with a very tiny player pool.
Its quite hard to have anything better than this, and most of the active players are not even interested in ladder games and\or in playing other maps but gow
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: baRa on May 06, 2021, 01:26:51 PM
Hey it was worth a shot. There are ways to make this work but if no ones interested then it is what it is. Speaking for myself, when I log on for 6 hours a week I'd prefer to play meaningful games rather then stomping in big 4v4s with random newbs. Maybe that's just me.
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: Nox on May 06, 2021, 02:43:05 PM
What is the point of this ladder anyway? It's a Neverending ongoing ladder with 50,000+ names on it. I've mentioned this before, but can't we revamp it and actually have it serve a useful purpose?

Have ladder seasons of 2-3 months each with a champ of each season

End of year Tourney with all season winners

Get promoted/demoted to different tiers (like sc2, GM, diamond, gold etc)

Use MMR

I'm sure there are alot of other great ideas we could implement. I know you will say no one cares about the ladder enough to justify the time and changes made. Obviously it's just a game and doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. However people still obviously care about it if they're asking questions etc.

I think it's worth looking into.
There's two issues with this ladder.  #1 is that people like having their old game history on there so don't want that wiped.  #2 is that there's always been a concern with the skill ratings that someone will just collect free wins or stomp newbs to earn points with no risk of losing at all.

The point is just to get as high as you can, and if you can get #1, hold it and defend it.

That's not to say seasons are a bad idea.  I think it could be interesting to leave the game history on there but erase everyone's ranks, or everyone's skill rating, and then see who is where at the end of a given season.  However, if we go by skill rating it might just be whoever plays the most games to accumulate the most skills points, and if we go by the current rung ranking system, then we can run into accusations of dodging and having to enforce the people on top to play to let those below have a chance to gain...

I don't mean it's not worth doing, those are just the things to consider.

This is why the staff is useless, always speaking like there no solution and just acting like if it's better to just let the game die.

Tora said, we cant do that ur community is too old for that? And whats if because of that we bring new players and get a bigger community?

Now you told us, we cant do that because peoples want there old record, why cant you save those pages and archives it?
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: Nox on May 06, 2021, 02:43:53 PM
Just sort by ELO

Sort by elo ans you will see same guys owning top 1-2-3-4-5 with 5 different smurfs?!
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: Nox on May 06, 2021, 02:45:53 PM
Hey it was worth a shot. There are ways to make this work but if no ones interested then it is what it is. Speaking for myself, when I log on for 6 hours a week I'd prefer to play meaningful games rather then stomping in big 4v4s with random newbs. Maybe that's just me.

Ive try before you bro, those guys are just lazy as fuck and prefere to just work for months on russians IA campain.
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on May 06, 2021, 03:42:15 PM
What is the point of this ladder anyway? It's a Neverending ongoing ladder with 50,000+ names on it. I've mentioned this before, but can't we revamp it and actually have it serve a useful purpose?

Have ladder seasons of 2-3 months each with a champ of each season

End of year Tourney with all season winners

Get promoted/demoted to different tiers (like sc2, GM, diamond, gold etc)

Use MMR

I'm sure there are alot of other great ideas we could implement. I know you will say no one cares about the ladder enough to justify the time and changes made. Obviously it's just a game and doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. However people still obviously care about it if they're asking questions etc.

I think it's worth looking into.
There's two issues with this ladder.  #1 is that people like having their old game history on there so don't want that wiped.  #2 is that there's always been a concern with the skill ratings that someone will just collect free wins or stomp newbs to earn points with no risk of losing at all.

The point is just to get as high as you can, and if you can get #1, hold it and defend it.

That's not to say seasons are a bad idea.  I think it could be interesting to leave the game history on there but erase everyone's ranks, or everyone's skill rating, and then see who is where at the end of a given season.  However, if we go by skill rating it might just be whoever plays the most games to accumulate the most skills points, and if we go by the current rung ranking system, then we can run into accusations of dodging and having to enforce the people on top to play to let those below have a chance to gain...

I don't mean it's not worth doing, those are just the things to consider.

This is why the staff is useless, always speaking like there no solution and just acting like if it's better to just let the game die.

Tora said, we cant do that ur community is too old for that? And whats if because of that we bring new players and get a bigger community?

Now you told us, we cant do that because peoples want there old record, why cant you save those pages and archives it?
That is not what I said Equinox.  Please read my post again.  In fact I said we could do it, and still leave the records in.

Then I said the issues for doing a season would be either 1) for elo/skill, people newb bashing or winbotting, or 2) for rung system, accusations of dodging.

Which one of those sounds better if we were to proceed?  With those issues in mind, what do people think we should do?
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: baRa on May 06, 2021, 04:02:20 PM
I know you can't have a ladder being completely 100% legit all the time. But we could try. And do something like demote rank if inactive 3 days, that way there is constant movement and dodging isn't a big issue. No one will get rank 1 and go smurf or go inactive because he will lose rank quick. I think that's a good start. I'm not sure how the ELO or MMR systems work to know what's best or if there is another option.
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: Nox on May 06, 2021, 04:23:10 PM
What is the point of this ladder anyway? It's a Neverending ongoing ladder with 50,000+ names on it. I've mentioned this before, but can't we revamp it and actually have it serve a useful purpose?

Have ladder seasons of 2-3 months each with a champ of each season

End of year Tourney with all season winners

Get promoted/demoted to different tiers (like sc2, GM, diamond, gold etc)

Use MMR

I'm sure there are alot of other great ideas we could implement. I know you will say no one cares about the ladder enough to justify the time and changes made. Obviously it's just a game and doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. However people still obviously care about it if they're asking questions etc.

I think it's worth looking into.
There's two issues with this ladder.  #1 is that people like having their old game history on there so don't want that wiped.  #2 is that there's always been a concern with the skill ratings that someone will just collect free wins or stomp newbs to earn points with no risk of losing at all.

The point is just to get as high as you can, and if you can get #1, hold it and defend it.

That's not to say seasons are a bad idea.  I think it could be interesting to leave the game history on there but erase everyone's ranks, or everyone's skill rating, and then see who is where at the end of a given season.  However, if we go by skill rating it might just be whoever plays the most games to accumulate the most skills points, and if we go by the current rung ranking system, then we can run into accusations of dodging and having to enforce the people on top to play to let those below have a chance to gain...

I don't mean it's not worth doing, those are just the things to consider.

This is why the staff is useless, always speaking like there no solution and just acting like if it's better to just let the game die.

Tora said, we cant do that ur community is too old for that? And whats if because of that we bring new players and get a bigger community?

Now you told us, we cant do that because peoples want there old record, why cant you save those pages and archives it?
That is not what I said Equinox.  Please read my post again.  In fact I said we could do it, and still leave the records in.

Then I said the issues for doing a season would be either 1) for elo/skill, people newb bashing or winbotting, or 2) for rung system, accusations of dodging.

Which one of those sounds better if we were to proceed?  With those issues in mind, what do people think we should do?

You think ladder is not abbuse at the moment?? Peoples with multiple smurf are 2x. 3x in top 50... There also peoples like u8 who abuse of the same players all day long, ladder cant be more abuse then it is now.

Do we need to punish an entire community because 2-3 admins are lazy as fuck and prefere to just let that game die?

If you think there probleme with winbot, and abuse and whatever you think, then hire more peoples to take cares of that ladder and keep it updates at all time... Why there only tk to take cares of that and acting like it's a big deal?

Swift own the entire top 5 of all time for himself alone, what kind of message it send to other peoples, sure i will not cares about that ladder if the same player own the entire top5.

Take cares of that damn ladder and maybe peoples will cares more?!
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: baRa on May 06, 2021, 07:48:44 PM
You don't need to be mean about it EQ. Every mod is a volunteer, and so would be anyone thats working on a new ladder or any other project for that matter. We can be upset and disappointed but until we learn to code and program on our own we can't rely on other people. The ones with that knowledge can use it as they want, even if it is creating useless things (maybe not useless to them)
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: woofy on May 06, 2021, 08:40:46 PM
what? we don't get paid???
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: Nox on May 06, 2021, 09:21:00 PM
You don't need to be mean about it EQ. Every mod is a volunteer, and so would be anyone thats working on a new ladder or any other project for that matter. We can be upset and disappointed but until we learn to code and program on our own we can't rely on other people. The ones with that knowledge can use it as they want, even if it is creating useless things (maybe not useless to them)

Well they say they volunter but its gonna be at least from 2015 they have been ask to do that, what make me upsett is when tora say bullshit like '' we too old '' like seriously? If your too old then go play bingo bro and leave that server alone.

They have no time to take cares of the ladder, like really? Gonna be six years if not more bro.
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: Nox on May 06, 2021, 09:22:22 PM
what? we don't get paid???

Im sure there alot of peoples who would love to take care of that for free, but you dont want no more peoples in that staff and if it happen than admins gonna spit in there face, right tora?
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: ~ToRa~ on May 07, 2021, 06:25:55 AM
what? we don't get paid???

Im sure there alot of peoples who would love to take care of that for free, but you dont want no more peoples in that staff and if it happen than admins gonna spit in there face, right tora?


Still harping over the master tag challege u were running huh.
When you pick up a project to oversee you should do it for yourself and the community.
The fact you got so upset over me saying “you sucked at it” while I was drunk shows a lot lol. We didn’t even take running master tag away from you.
You just quit lmao.

Even this ladder if we gave it to you to run you would be hyped for 3-4 weeks then get pissed people don’t like all the new changes and quit.

And yes I am busier than most people you meet on a day to day basis.
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: Nox on May 07, 2021, 07:32:27 AM
what? we don't get paid???

Im sure there alot of peoples who would love to take care of that for free, but you dont want no more peoples in that staff and if it happen than admins gonna spit in there face, right tora?


Still harping over the master tag challege u were running huh.
When you pick up a project to oversee you should do it for yourself and the community.
The fact you got so upset over me saying “you sucked at it” while I was drunk shows a lot lol. We didn’t even take running master tag away from you.
You just quit lmao.

Even this ladder if we gave it to you to run you would be hyped for 3-4 weeks then get pissed people don’t like all the new changes and quit.

And yes I am busier than most people you meet on a day to day basis.

Sucking at it is probably still better of aint doing shit at all like you...

You think i will wait untill you throw me like a trash? And make fun of me?  Sure i just leave if you feel the need to talkshit on my back and telling everyone you gonna kick me.

You had nothing else to do to just respect my decisions, because at the end you cant even take decisions urself.

Ur just letting those masters challenge dying and you dont give a shit bro.

You got no time for it, ok, but dont fuck peoples who try to make things going up, because at the end your just looking like a hater and a party breaker, and not only against me, but against the entire community.

You have emotionally fall into the trap of teaboy, because teaboy was harrassing you all the time, when you gonna do something against equinox, equinox is crazy... And just because ur a coward who cant say, TEABOY SHUT UP, ENOUPH IS ENOUPH, you prefere spit on me like a trash and talkshit. You suppose to be an admin here, and you suppose to show exemple, but ur the one that get drunk and supposly talkshit because of it..

The truth is, 10% of the server was maybe crying, and they were not crying cuz the job was wrong, they were crying cuz it was equinox who was doing it and it was fun to troll equinox again.

But for those 10% you punish 90% of the entire server whos was clearly loving and enjoying those new rules even if it was probably not perfect, because at least, something was going on, they were activites, challenge, love,passion, and you destroy it like everything i try to do on this server for the last 10 years.

Thats the only and the entire truth, i know it, you know it, we all know it!

And not only you cant say sorry im a drunk fucktard, you must try to be right and laugh at it.

Ur useless and sure im mad, we all know it, you guys make me the guy i am today, a bunch of trolls who make fun of someone who have always try to take cares of them.
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on May 07, 2021, 09:22:09 AM
I know you can't have a ladder being completely 100% legit all the time. But we could try. And do something like demote rank if inactive 3 days, that way there is constant movement and dodging isn't a big issue. No one will get rank 1 and go smurf or go inactive because he will lose rank quick. I think that's a good start. I'm not sure how the ELO or MMR systems work to know what's best or if there is another option.
What then happens though is that a hypothetical top player might only play one game every few days and it's always against Paladin664 or something.  The other thing that happens is if we say, well, you have to play a top 5 or top 10 player every 5 days, then the top player could log on for a few hours a couple different days and go "anyone here?  need to play a top 5 person.  anyone here?" and there's no one around, and then they get demoted unfairly.

Anyway, though, this is something we can try.  (Equinox, I am just trying to get feedback before deciding how to proceed.  I'm not trying to stop this from happening, I'm just trying to think of all the components of it.)

--------------------

 :pig: :wc2:

Maybe we should do a summer season.  On June 1, we can have iL delete every player on the ladder's rank.  The rest of their info can be left as is and I think it should work... Season could end August 29.  I mean, ladder won't be turned off after August 29, but on August 29 we'll see who is in first place and won the season.  Maybe we can schedule a series between #1 and #2 for that day, whoever it may be.

This gives us until June to work out how to deal with dodging or inactivity or just difficulty finding opponents!
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: ~ToRa~ on May 07, 2021, 01:02:51 PM
You had nothing else to do to just respect my decisions, because at the end you cant even take decisions urself.

I think the fact myself and the other admins let you run it without question is enough respect. Everything else is irrelevant.
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: baRa on May 07, 2021, 01:27:22 PM
I get it resetting the ladder and starting ladder say in June is not a huge issue. But I just thought of to try something different with the map pool and see how that goes. How could we implement that. If we make ladder for a certain map pool I think it would promote diversity instead of just gow. This would even help out newer players (obviously they won't win) but if everyone is learning new maps then there is no clear favorite to win the season. We could use user created maps for a few of the pool. I know Nedro and some other people have made pretty decent ones.

I mean I've been playing gow since 98 and can continue playing it, I just think some changes and to freshen things up and can't really damage anything to try it.
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: Nox on May 07, 2021, 08:33:07 PM
I know you can't have a ladder being completely 100% legit all the time. But we could try. And do something like demote rank if inactive 3 days, that way there is constant movement and dodging isn't a big issue. No one will get rank 1 and go smurf or go inactive because he will lose rank quick. I think that's a good start. I'm not sure how the ELO or MMR systems work to know what's best or if there is another option.
What then happens though is that a hypothetical top player might only play one game every few days and it's always against Paladin664 or something.  The other thing that happens is if we say, well, you have to play a top 5 or top 10 player every 5 days, then the top player could log on for a few hours a couple different days and go "anyone here?  need to play a top 5 person.  anyone here?" and there's no one around, and then they get demoted unfairly.

Anyway, though, this is something we can try.  (Equinox, I am just trying to get feedback before deciding how to proceed.  I'm not trying to stop this from happening, I'm just trying to think of all the components of it.)

--------------------

 :pig: :wc2:

Maybe we should do a summer season.  On June 1, we can have iL delete every player on the ladder's rank.  The rest of their info can be left as is and I think it should work... Season could end August 29.  I mean, ladder won't be turned off after August 29, but on August 29 we'll see who is in first place and won the season.  Maybe we can schedule a series between #1 and #2 for that day, whoever it may be.

This gives us until June to work out how to deal with dodging or inactivity or just difficulty finding opponents!

Since you want some feedback, then here mine.

- Six Months season is too long, what we need here is to bring peoples to enjoy the ladder, after only 3 months peoples gonna get borred because they gonna see basicly the same top 10.
So what we want here is to always reseting the ladder the fast as we can so peoples cant forgot that season and start back on a new one. It's kinda a refresh way to always say to ourself, ok i did a bad season but this one gonna be better... But if you let six months, peoples just gonna give up and will not cares about it anymore, a new season mean '' new goals '' 3 months season would be the best!

- Map Pool... 8 maps pool every 3 months. 6 Maps should always stay the base of the map pool, untouch map.... GoW, PoS, Gold Separate East and West, B2B, FOC, HSC... The 2 other maps would be 2 randoms map every 3 months. Created map, so peoples can create map during the season, send it to forum, people cant talk about those maps and give advices, fix bugs, found name for them, and then 2 weeks before the new season start, people can vote for the 2 maps they wanna see in the next season pool.

- The website... Now you must use that damn website, because this website is basicly dead, while it will suppose to be the most important part of this server, when new players join us, they dont go on the forum, they go on the website and they see last activities where 6 months ago, they basicly think this game dead and they just give up. This website should be ALIVE, like massive updates all the time... Now everytime we get new map in the new ladder pool, you make a great presentation of them, An image of the map, the name map, type of map, tips to play that map etc etc.. You help to make those maps popular, you created a buzz around them, and the best way for that is to using the website himself! You also can rewards peoples who have play those map the most during the season. Maybe a cash prize, maybe a special icon for random map player, maybe a tournament between most active player on those map..

- Hall of fame records... Now you also can created a kind of Hall of fame records page on the website... Where every winner of each season will be show, best win streak, best wins on random map etc etc. Just a way to give importance to those players, a kind of achivement that push player to be on that list. You can find alot of different records for alot of different peoples, just need to be creative.

We can do so much with this game, but if we stay here thinking we too old, we will get no where, let me told you lol.

Better trying thing and fail, because staying here doing nothing it's already a fail.
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: baRa on May 07, 2021, 09:41:42 PM
If people want to log on and play gow for a couple hours and log off that's cool. There doesn't seem to be interest in any upgrading. So I guess people like stuff the way it is.

Sometimes I get a desire to do some stuff but with no support/help there's no use.
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on May 07, 2021, 11:09:27 PM
I think there's a way to play IronMan isn't there?  As I recall one of the loaders has an option to enable IronMan, maybe even to unlock it to EF

I could make the ladder only count certain maps, could certainly be done, although then people playing gow having it not count might be annoyed.  So I guess this is pointing to having iL install a duplicate ladder, if he is willing.

I get that 3 months might be too long Eq but is 1 month long enough?  maybe?
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: Nox on May 08, 2021, 02:04:42 AM
I think there's a way to play IronMan isn't there?  As I recall one of the loaders has an option to enable IronMan, maybe even to unlock it to EF

I could make the ladder only count certain maps, could certainly be done, although then people playing gow having it not count might be annoyed.  So I guess this is pointing to having iL install a duplicate ladder, if he is willing.

I get that 3 months might be too long Eq but is 1 month long enough?  maybe?

6 months is too long, 3 months is perfect, 1 month is way too short, most of every games at the moment in 2021 use 3 months season format.
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: ~ToRa~ on May 08, 2021, 08:24:30 AM
I think there's a way to play IronMan isn't there?  As I recall one of the loaders has an option to enable IronMan, maybe even to unlock it to EF

I could make the ladder only count certain maps, could certainly be done, although then people playing gow having it not count might be annoyed.  So I guess this is pointing to having iL install a duplicate ladder, if he is willing.

I get that 3 months might be too long Eq but is 1 month long enough?  maybe?


Would it be possible to have their stats added up without showing on the ladder? I think it’s a good idea.
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: Player on May 08, 2021, 08:26:06 AM
I agree with EQ, Blid.  Instead of starting with a Jun 1 through Aug 29 season, we should do 3 months.
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: Wargasm on May 08, 2021, 09:52:04 AM
If you really want to spark interest and competition - DO A TEAM LADDER SIMILAR TO CASES LADDER. Not another 1s ladder or league that will have the same results. Max 3 veterans per team + 1 newb.

1s are too boring. 2s+ get more people involved and caring - and it’s more fun in general.
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: Wargasm on May 08, 2021, 10:09:45 AM
With all the other games out there that have leagues - I don’t think (but I don’t know bc this is the only game I play) the player base is having to create the team ladder? Are we trying to recreate the wheel here? It doesn’t have to be automated - I think we could handle having to go report games on a website? Aren’t there free (or super cheap) league websites we can join / host a War2 league on?
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: Wargasm on May 08, 2021, 12:03:13 PM
http://www.myleague.com/ (http://www.myleague.com/)
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: baRa on May 08, 2021, 12:36:11 PM
From what I remember whenever we had cases ladder weather on ru or east, they always ended up fizzling away. I think anything is still worth  shot though.

I think the main thing I'm trying to get going here is playing more maps apart from gow. Otherwise this will be just another same old gow ladder weather 1s or 2s.

IMO it doesn't have to be automated.

If thats what we decide I don't mind being admin of the caes ladder or whatever we choose.

Can we create a poll or something to get more input?
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: Nox on May 08, 2021, 02:57:30 PM
We must work the the core of this server, wich mean, website, forum and his own ladder.

External link are always flop and dont bring visibility at all, not that a kind of war clan is bad.

It could be an excellente idea for more hardcore player who got time for this game.

But the main priority is to work on the core of this server, make it relevant upadates and active.

Wich Mean, website, forum, and the main ladder.

This one: http://ladder.war2.ru/index.php (http://ladder.war2.ru/index.php)

The goal here is not only to have challenge on the server but make it more profesionnal for new players.

Every serious game have his own proper website, forum and ladder.

Get this thing first right, then we can talk about advanced ladder.

Thats my opinion.
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: Swift on May 10, 2021, 10:54:17 AM
I would love to see sub-ladder's for other maps.

Ladder for Customs:
Chop Farms


Ladder for non-gow built-in maps:
POS
GSESPS
ETC

OR just a KOTH ladder, which is for all non-gow built in maps.

Also, a 2s ladder :)


Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: LoRyS.iT on May 10, 2021, 01:51:15 PM
ladder for 2s exists already: http://ladder.war2.ru/2s/index.php (http://ladder.war2.ru/2s/index.php)
but its kinda impossibile to make it work the same way the 1s does. it might be only sorted by ELO
Title: Re: ladder demoting sistem
Post by: Swift on May 11, 2021, 09:20:16 AM
I don't think the 2s ladder has been active in the last ten years though