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Chop Update 637  12

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eleison

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Chop Update
« on: July 02, 2021, 10:33:00 AM »
Hope you all have a nice summer!

As many know in 2017 I made a new chop version. I made this version because all versions that I could find had different time to put up and chop out for power mine. The version got recieved with mixed feelings. That version makes it harder to put down hall sometimes, if you don't know how to place your buildings for it.

I have since then thought about how to improve it. Finally I got time to put some time into this. I meassured the chop times on all the spots, and even the 2017+ version difference from spot to spot. I made perfect chop on very spot in very slow speed on all the spots when doing the testing. And came up with a new solution where all spots are balanced in time to put down power mine. I also made a couple other improvements. And I think the new version is superior my 2017+ in many ways. I'm open for feedback to how to improve this or if there is something you don't like.

I made some images explaining all the changes and showing an example of how to place buildings for air.

Based on this map I also made a couple of 1s chop maps that is supposed to be played with fixed order and features observer spots. I made spots from the most fair 1v1 positions. Take a look in the zip file I attach to this post. Maybe u8 you want to use it in your chop leauge...

If this map is well recieved by all chop players, maybe it could finally be included in the installation of war2combat...

Thank you all, take care :)

*EDIT* I realised I made some misstakes with the 1s chop TE fixed maps. I fixed and re uploaded them to this post. Now they work with TvB, players in 1st and 5th slot... Sorry :C

*EDIT-2* I found more misstakes in the 1s CHOP TE maps... Reattaching it again... T_T
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eleison

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Re: Chop Update
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2021, 10:33:37 AM »
One more image...
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eleison

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Re: Chop Update
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2021, 10:34:04 AM »
Last one :)
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DanielAG

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Re: Chop Update
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2021, 08:03:19 PM »
Hope you all have a nice summer!

As many know in 2017 I made a new chop version. I made this version because all versions that I could find had different time to put up and chop out for power mine. The version got recieved with mixed feelings. That version makes it harder to put down hall sometimes, if you don't know how to place your buildings for it.

I have since then thought about how to improve it. Finally I got time to put some time into this. I meassured the chop times on all the spots, and even the 2017+ version difference from spot to spot. I made perfect chop on very spot in very slow speed on all the spots when doing the testing. And came up with a new solution where all spots are balanced in time to put down power mine. I also made a couple other improvements. And I think the new version is superior my 2017+ in many ways. I'm open for feedback to how to improve this or if there is something you don't like.

I made some images explaining all the changes and showing an example of how to place buildings for air.

Based on this map I also made a couple of 1s chop maps that is supposed to be played with fixed order and features observer spots. I made spots from the most fair 1v1 positions. Take a look in the zip file I attach to this post. Maybe u8 you want to use it in your chop leauge...

If this map is well recieved by all chop players, maybe it could finally be included in the installation of war2combat...

Thank you all, take care :)

*EDIT* I realised I made some misstakes with the 1s chop TE fixed maps. I fixed and re uploaded them to this post. Now they work with TvB, players in 1st and 5th slot... Sorry :C



Man, I aprriciate ur effort, in this server we need ppl willing to do something, investing work hours making this game better as u probably did editing this map.
Not just writing shit n complaining about everything.
ill only host ur map from now on. Haven’t played it yet but don’t give a fuck if it ruins someone cry baby starts. 
Supporting ur map for tourneys from now on.
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maciek

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Re: Chop Update
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2021, 05:54:45 AM »
this is why this map is unbalanced
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eleison

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Re: Chop Update
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2021, 10:03:10 AM »
Thank you DanielAG! :)
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eleison

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Re: Chop Update
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2021, 10:09:49 AM »
this is why this map is unbalanced

Thank you Maciek for your feedback!
I'm out traveling, when I'm back home I will make some images that can explain the map further! But already I can say there is no difference between raping distance on 2021 and other chop maps. The distance between the mines in your image is same as all the other popular versions. Can you make an image from the [proper] map that shows the difference you trying explain? Thanks!
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8)MikulZ(8

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Re: Chop Update
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2021, 07:22:20 AM »
Good job eleison I'll host this map when I have time to play and test it out  ^-^

I'd like to think chop players are more open to balance changes than gow players with their rigged ass map anyway  :))
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eleison

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Re: Chop Update
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2021, 04:52:45 AM »
Good job eleison I'll host this map when I have time to play and test it out  ^-^

I'd like to think chop players are more open to balance changes than gow players with their rigged ass map anyway  :))

Thank you MikulZ! :)
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eleison

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Re: Chop Update
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2021, 05:24:03 AM »
this is why this map is unbalanced

I looked into this further. You right that to some of the other versions the middle mine is little bit more safe from left corner. This is something that could be adjusted. But there is another aspect of this that I think is more important.

I attach an image to this post and hope I can explain my point. Every spot has a natural and a "safe mine". The only time there is no safe mine is for top middle and bottom middle, when top is attacked from right side and bottom is attacked from left side. In the attached image it is if Teal attacks Blue. Then Blue doesn't have a safe mine. That's why the top mine is better placed far away from Teal. If it was Red attacking Blue, Blue can use mine number 4 in image aka Blues safe mine. In some chop versions, Teal has much closer to rape Blue, and Blue has no mine at all to go to.

Anyways this is interesting discussion, although I think the time it takes to chop to mine is more important in balancing the map.

One chop version that has been growing in popularity recently is Mini Chop Farms [[PROPER]]. This version is not even balanced from same mirrored spot. This is the problem we got with all the old chop versions, they not calculated or precisely done. There might be smaller unbalanced stuff in 2021 version, but I think it is the most balanced so far. No other map has the same chopping time to mines.

I'm open to shift the top middle and bottom mine towards the middle, but if you can see my reasoning here above, it's not that clear if it would be better??
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8)MikulZ(8

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Re: Chop Update
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2021, 02:23:39 PM »
There is still one thing that should be addressed in my opinion; using empty farm space to go attack or rape other players gold. Imo it doesn't belong to chop and is just a dirty tactic for a losing player to exploit, but I'm not sure what others choppers think about it. Is it a problem?

This could be addressed by making the map bigger and just placing rock on the place of farms and place farms further away. next map size is so big tho it makes minimap harder to use. one way to address this could be custom map size like in some maps droid hosts like micro golf but I don't know how precise custom size it allows? This also has the problem that minimap doesn't scale properly but maybe it's better than 128x128?
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eleison

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Re: Chop Update
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2021, 02:36:59 PM »
There is still one thing that should be addressed in my opinion; using empty farm space to go attack or rape other players gold. Imo it doesn't belong to chop and is just a dirty tactic for a losing player to exploit, but I'm not sure what others choppers think about it. Is it a problem?

This could be addressed by making the map bigger and just placing rock on the place of farms and place farms further away. next map size is so big tho it makes minimap harder to use. one way to address this could be custom map size like in some maps droid hosts like micro golf but I don't know how precise custom size it allows? This also has the problem that minimap doesn't scale properly but maybe it's better than 128x128?

Good point! 🙂 I agree with you that running via farms is not a fun tactic in 1s and 2s games. In my 2017+ version I made this harder, by making the walls not possible to pass. Although the invisible walls made some confusion for some players. So in 2021 I removed it, I decreased farm count from 15 to 14 per player. And added two cuts of forest instead of the walls. This will make it hard to run around by farms, because you have to chop two times to get to next set of farm space. I could make it even harder by making these trees impossible to cut. But I think some players will get confused. Some players also dont like that running by farm space is disabled.

Changing the map size would never get accepted by the community because mini map size is very important in chop farms. I tried change it once, but it was very hard to play. :x
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eleison

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Re: Chop Update
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2021, 04:54:09 AM »
I found more misstakes in the 1s CHOP TE maps... Reattaching it again to main post... T_T