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451

Server.War2.ru / Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment

« on: March 18, 2018, 03:00:38 AM »

Now yet again my main point is for you to respect other people ideas and keep an open mind and not act like there is nothing to be said or done when people are expressing a different point of view.

-About more punishment being handed down again look up previous answers.
-About why these polls and your policy for over 10 years could be wrong look previous answers too and specifically the allegory of the cave.

More on that last point if all polls and discussions went like this I can easily see why no changes were  ever made in the past 10 years no offense here but the way you react to change proposals are pretty much self explanatory...

You believe the game is too hard to learn ok that is your point of view.
Now consider people may think differently for example:
That if that was the case maybe people would not say they would love to play if people weren't so toxic.
Or that maybe if the game was that hard that would mean we all are just geniuses to play this utterly complicated game at this unreachable level?
Look at them geniuses talking for a minute and try not to laugh at yourself for thinking that could be the case.

Now bare with me as I am going to go over what I believe:
I believe this game is the simplest strategy game ever made, both to take in hands and to enjoy at any skill levels.
That I believe is because it is the essence of a real time strategy game with no extra features and complicated mechanics just the basics plain and simple.
It is to me the definition of easy to get into and hard to master. Much easier to get into than say Starcraft 2 there is so little to learn to get started.
You say the game looks too old I say people freaking play modern games that look older and uglier than that.
And also that a lot of old games that were never updated still are being played and enjoyed by people that are not even good at them.

But all this is what I believe I could be completely wrong and because of that I accept your opinion maybe the game being old has something to do with it.
Now I am not telling you what to think and what to say I am showing you that we can have different point of views on things and respect each others opinions.

Say you are right and the game is too old then if there is nothing special about it:
-Why do we keep playing it then?
-Whether we ask people to behave or not then the player base is going to leave anyway as the game and its players are getting older?

If there is on the other hand something good and special about it:
-Then why other people wont see it and stay?
-Why people that do see it eventually leave? Do they all just get tired of the game?
-Do you think people leave because they feel they are too bad? I agree! What then makes them feel that it matters and they have to be good to enjoy the game? What are the signs we as a community give them that makes them feel they cannot casually enjoy/play the game? What can we do to try and change that so that people stick around until they are good?

If the game being old and too hard to learn is the only reason for you that people leave then there is nothing to be done the player base is going to drop in any case right?

Now if we consider for one little moment that some of us might be right saying players being toxic is one of the reasons people leave or stop playing.

Then something can be done and what do we risk really in the end to act? Like for real lets have a look at what we loose if it comes to banning someone that we would not have banned otherwise (and I mean after all warnings and all that shit):

-We should be morning some very toxic guy that is not even willing to behave a bit better to help the game not die out? Because he does not like another member?
-Was that guy that cannot just ignore/respect fellow players even worth it he was worth what exactly you enjoy being harassed and reading disgusting chat in game that much?
-If the game is dying anyway well if he is in that position it was him or the other guy maybe even silent others that just didn't take the time to say something in the forum and rather left because yeah the game is not that fresh anymore?
-How many people are we willing to give up just so that one guy can feel at home being toxic and insulting/harassing everyone else?

And this is not even considering that they could and mostly would start to behave because of the new rules.

So yeah if I am right we have little to loose and potentially a lot to win.
If I am wrong we risk loosing some very very positive beings and hours of pure fun reading general chat... Oh and yeah the game would utterly die but that as you said we can't do anything about. If there was a solution we would have found it and done it 10 years ago right, obviously these things are so easy to discuss I cannot see how we would have missed it... (:
 

452

Server.War2.ru / Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment

« on: March 18, 2018, 01:19:57 AM »

Just get rid of all the rules ill give you common sense who needs to go and who dont.

Common sense rules are pretty much what battle.net's code of conduct is all about. Just a set of global direction that pretty much give incentives it is rarely followed by bans because, when it is out there, people tend to behave and also forgive more :-)

@~ToRa~ Just stop saying majority when you talk about 25 people over all the people that gave war2.ru a chance it is just ridiculous.

Read my previous answer especially the last sentence about banning people clearly you missed something...

Read my previous answer about why I believe something is a significant issue and should at least be discussed freely and with an open mind.

Also:

players don’t want people banned for trash talking. That has been the consensus for years now.
However trash talking has never been seen as a banable offense

Given the fact that you estimate your remaining active players to be around 25-50 players I can only imagine how well it worked out for you so far.

You know the  Allegory of the cave?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave

This is what I believe is happening here.
I am not saying you should just accept everything other people say I say you should let them at least express themselves and keep an open mind.

453

Server.War2.ru / Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment

« on: March 18, 2018, 12:42:01 AM »

@~ToRa~
I am pretty sure you didn't read what I wrote up there for you to answer something like that...

Or you genuinely do not understand what the point was which is understandable since for you 47% in a 17 people week poll is a good enough sign that all is for the best the way it is and things should not be discussed anymore...

I am sorry to say it is unreasonable to say that 8 person represent that much, even if we say that we care only about the 25 persons you talk about.

I guess it is to be expected of a group of individuals that respond that badly to change, but still, saying you don't want to hear what Igognito has to say because of a 1 week poll that 17 people participated on is quite ridiculous.
Especially since it was not even 50% said that things are ok as they are and even then that would still be ridiculous...

So if you want to shut people's mouth up just don't use awfully self made numbers they simply do not back you up...
Just because you are allergic to change does not justify to shut @Igognito or anyone up when they try to find a solution to something that a significant part of your 25 remaining members say is a problem.

LOL 25 active players now that is some next level community...

Now considering your numbers:

Talk about things being perfect when you have 25 members and the few new players that you talk to all say that even though they love the game the environment is just too hostile each of these players that gave up on you represents 4% of your happy community.
13 of them represent more than half of what you have now tell me there is nothing to talk about and that everything is perfect as it is.

Accurate assessment of what you and 7 people including bullies want yes then again you are happy with your 25 members community if you want people to stay in that community and have more than 8 active members in the end maybe you should start listening to what they have to say before shutting them up because you and 7 others think there is no place for discussion...

Yet again it is not about perma-banning more people it is about giving a direction helping people to behave and stop hurting each others and ultimately the community...

454

Server.War2.ru / Re: Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment

« on: March 17, 2018, 08:34:20 PM »

The poll shows what it shows not more not less:

Out of around 200 players active in the community 17 took part (it represents 8.5% of the total sample).
Not to mention these players are the most active players which are still playing and are not going to be the most vulnerable or the ones that would benefit from a change in policy.
Actually they are the most likely to go against any change because so far they are the ones who survived the best with these rules.

But non the less lets look further on these results shall we, numbers can be story telling:
47% of these very engaged and unmovable veterans voted they are "happy" with the current state of things they represent an impressive 4% of the player base but not even 50% of the most resilient players that took part to the poll.

Meaning we have 3% that still cared and though it would change anything 1.5% didn't care or though it was one more useless poll.

Most importantly 91.15% did not take part.

The majority look indeed overwhelming and satisfying enough for some of us to close the debate and shut people up it appears.
I would say it looks even worse than our last presidential election that medias said was not significant and satisfying as "only 45% of the population took part" yup now with our awesome 8.5% of active players expressing themselves I would say that is some next level legitimacy.

Amazing how fast people are willing to take everything coming their way and make it look like it is more than it really is.

8 individuals that took part could be you your dad your two brothers, your 2 closest friends and two renowned and active bullies (Saying these are legit players would not really change anything given the numbers).

But I am pretty sure you would like to believe there is no bias here as they represent pretty much the global population of our server at its core especially the ones that would benefit the most from the change

ps: I took 200 as the number of active members if we take the 960+ members that are registered on the forum these numbers look even better how about that: 0.083% of our forum members think things are great and should not change yay now shut the fuck up we are all happy I don't want to hear anything on that matter no more!

At this point why even make a poll at all, just make your decisions alone, say you just don't care what others think/say but don't try to make it look like your decisions are legit and widely supported to shut people up when really it looks that bad, this is just insulting.

455

General Discussion / Re: Baguette

« on: March 16, 2018, 11:05:14 AM »

Is a very hard job and they have to be up very very early so that we get our baguettes and croissants hot from the oven when we get there in the morning also they will finish usually very late so that we get our baguettes for dinner.
Not mentioning the fact that the job is demanding physically I guess them heroes deserve at least to rest one day a week yes
 

456

General Discussion / Babyshark here is a little video to cheer you up <3

« on: March 16, 2018, 10:32:27 AM »

I figured out you would want to see these 6 archers in action again 

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/239341445
 
Bringing up good memories



PS:this topic should be in General didn't see that section my bad.

457

Server.War2.ru / Re: Encourage players to play for the challenge. Remove counters all together :P

« on: March 12, 2018, 05:40:48 PM »

So there is a ranked elo system.
Therefore the argument saying you need the built-in counters stats for competition is invalidated as you have more reliable and accurate numbers to look up to

 

Well yeah maybe we could rank even team games if we select them by name using a keyword.
If for example you add "ranked" in the game name like "Gow ranked" it would be very obvious what game counts and what game doesn't.

I noted what Szwagier said about people not wanting to play better players, the problem is it will affect any Elo system if players can consistently choose their opponents.
Having different buttons and queues in game would be the dream solution but seems a bit hard to do as you would have to modify the existing binary.
Therefore we could try to make a "Random queue site" to try to overcome that problem like I was describing in my answer like two posts before.
Making a independent site/app is way more doable. even if we make it available on smartphones. :-)

But this would be an entire different topic

458

Server.War2.ru / Re: Encourage players to play for the challenge. Remove counters all together :P

« on: March 11, 2018, 12:50:45 AM »

@Lambchops LOL yeah pretty much

Again I'm not talking about removing every way we have to know a player's level I am proposing to have:
1) A non ranked games place for people to do what ever the fuck they want spectate games, troll and whatever.
2) A Elo ranking that has more meaning because not as easily trickable. (especially if we limit the ranking system to people that have played like at least 100 games or something like that

Keeping the total number of games played on the server will tell you already how new the guy is in a more positive manner (see the fact that he watched, lost or won these games does not matter are all positive experiences for a player's global level and should be reflecting that I think).
A ratio that is not taking into account if the game was stacked if you were a watcher and all that does not send the same message.

I don't have a specific "game theory" I am saying the school of thinking that I would relate the most to when in comes to link behaviors to rational choices and partial pieces of information is "game theory".
This is group of models of thinking that studies how the way information is given to players influences the way they behave.

In that particular case having an aggregated information replacing these counters could avoid some bad feelings making that information more about "experience" in a positive way.

That is all I am saying now you are free to disagree and it seems like a lot of you guys do.

So yeah maybe things are perfectly fine the way they are. Now it does not hurt to exchange/share points of views does it?

All I am thinking about here is how can we as a community with little changes make this server more attractive for new players, beginners, E-sport, and competitive scene to stop it from dying all together.

I can be wrong yet again we didn't get to have central heating by saying all was fine and comfy in the caverns and saying we shouldn't be talking about changing things.
 

459

Server.War2.ru / Re: I'm back!

« on: March 10, 2018, 09:57:57 PM »

Hello Back!
I'm Cel

460

Server.War2.ru / Re: Encourage players to play for the challenge. Remove counters all together :P

« on: March 10, 2018, 09:23:12 PM »

Most of them wont have to dodge they would just play non ranked games and have fun.
Though I agree having a ranked blind queue would be awesome though close to impossible to do as you would have to edit the .exe quite heavily.

Unless:
We (I could do that) make a ranked queue system outside of the game that you register on with your in game aka.

On a dedicated site you would basically queue up you or even with your team and basically say if you can host.
The site then gives you your opponent out of a random list and you then have to meet in game, host the game with the map and settings the site gives you and play.
(you would have to run insight though so we caster can get some great replays after games are played but also because it would make conflicts easier to fix).

We could even think of adding the possibility to pick/ ban maps from the list of maps we want to feature.
And also say one or two type or starting resources. (like for example you don't want to play high res).
And much more, these kind of features are then very easy to set up.

We could have two types of queue:
One for when you want to play within a certain time frame:
Of course when you click the button you basically say to the site you are ready to play/host the game within that timeline could be from now to like one or two hours depending on the time you say you have. Then the algorithm would try to match you up with people on that same timeline.

The other queue is like timeless it gives you your opponent and try to minimize ELO difference and until you played that opponent on the given settings you cannot play someone else on that queue.

No shows (games that are not played) we could have something following this idea:
For the time frame queue the site gives you like 20 min to show up and create the game with the name and password given and play it.
Players have to show up with the correct AKA.
The host has to create the game within the first 10 min then click a button to say the game is created.
Then the rest of the players have to join the game within the remaining time.
Players click a button and the site will try to find that game if it is up. It will say the game is up if it is but if it was not found although host said it was up then host is declared to have lost the game so host has to keep hosting.
Once all players are in the game game can start.
Any other conflict like host booting people and players leaving game would require SS as proof.
we could also have an option for all players to basically say they couldn't play the match for x reason in which case one player can click a button and if all players click it the match is cancelled plain and simple ( for example host and player conflict lag or drops ). Again here if game is not playable and players do not agree then a ss can solve the issue. (maybe we can even see logs for latency or drops).

I mean that is a possibility this I know it is doable and would deserve a topic to make sure we design this together.
Here though we talk about removing the two counters that shows when you do /stats.
These counters are the only thing I am talking about removing in that post as I think it would be better to have nothing than this.
We could either remove them completely or replace them by just the number of games played overall which is actually the only real thing you can read from them anyways.

:-)

461

Server.War2.ru / Re: Blizzard anonymity

« on: March 10, 2018, 08:27:58 PM »

I pretty much agree with all that! Anonymity has nothing to do with people being disgusting and hateful.

The only ones it stops from saying disgusting things are the one that don't really mean it most of the time.
Most of these people are just having a moment where they want to say horrible things because it releases their pressure and often it ends with a lot of "omfg lol".
The real toxic ones they don't laugh about it they don't care what you think they don't care if what they say affects you.

So yeah anonymity is not a solution at all.
Temporary bans and IP bans is different though to force people to behave and care about what might be inappropriate and what might hurt someone else.
Toxic members would start to care about their effects on others not because they genuinely care, but because hurting someone has consequences for them in the end.
Yup that is crazy but some people just wont care unless it can backfire on them.

462

Server.War2.ru / Re: Encourage players to play for the challenge. Remove counters all together :P

« on: March 10, 2018, 05:15:44 AM »

? biased how so?

BTW I never said it was you you just happen to find yourself in that story.
Well indeed, we had such a story though it is also quite relevant too.

See the problem is the carrot and the stick are stupidly designed. We are talking about highly inefficient and corrupted way of counting wins and loss that do not give you incentive to play better or even promote competition.

I think it is better to have a place where we don't count so you can loose after trying to hop without knowing how it works .

And later when you know how to play and you feel like you are in a mood to play seriously you can play a ranked game where your rank is actually properly representing your real level in the community.

Not just how many time you destroyed new players and lower level players in a stacked and unfair manner.

You want a carrot well lets make a carrot but not one that will make you want to stack games, better one that makes you seek competitive and challenging opponents.

I am talking about a real Elo system like in any competitive games you see today in E-Sports.
And a clear separation between ranked games and non ranked games.

463

Server.War2.ru / Re: Encourage players to play for the challenge. Remove counters all together :P

« on: March 09, 2018, 04:18:02 PM »

When stupid numbers stop you from enjoying, have fun and playing a game that is when we can question why we need them in the first place. 

464

Server.War2.ru / Re: First Casualty to New Anti-Homophobic Speech Ban Rule: Blid

« on: March 09, 2018, 03:27:35 AM »

Well terms of use apply only to what comes after they are released makes sense right?
Also people would have to be reporting you for offending them that means you went sufficiently far that they would feel like doing so everyone has its own limits most of us wont just report every transgressions this is for dealing with repeated and damaging behaviors.

Now back on your interesting statements:
Some people just feel like they should care about what others like to do in their home and bed rooms and in their private circle and life.

I don't care what people's tastes are, people are born like that like it or not.
Some people just have a female brain in a man's body and vice versa studies prove it.
Which is sad for them when you think about it and is pretty fucked up.


I don't really question nature's way if there is a god like you seem to believe and that he created humanity, maybe he did make them like that for a reason maybe he wanted humans to stop reproducing or something he might have been very drunk cause that's fucked up but eh that's life right? Who are we to judge?

Now some are more lucky than others maybe the lucky one should have a duty to make life easier for the less blessed ones seems about fair right?
Maybe not looking down at disabled people and minorities could be a good start?

Now about your beliefs:
The book that so called Christians say they believe in explicitly says all mans are equal before god and one shall not judge. And that is like only in one of the first pages.

It is amazing how people take from the book what they want but ditch the rest when it pleases them.

Think about it if people would just stop judging each others for one second how beautiful life would be.

You want to show how good a believer you are, start by respecting your own book's values not just the ones you pick or other people select for you.

If believing is to make you a good person start by just that, take from it what will make you a good person.
 

465

Server.War2.ru / Re: Encourage players to play for the challenge. Remove counters all together :P

« on: March 08, 2018, 08:38:51 PM »

Mankind always wanted to fly some said it would never happen because none could reach that goal before them
yet that did not stop humanity to seek solutions and  to eventually succeed.

What I mean by that is that it does not hurt to ask/discuss about it and check our options see what we can do toward these goals.

But if we stay in the cave and watch at the wall we'll never see what's possible or not out there.
Maybe that is not worth, maybe it is worth, in any case if that has a potential to have a positive effect on the community at a very low cost that is worth talking about don't you agree?

Yet we do not know what it would take to make that change it is true but it is quite common to a lot of great ideas you start with an idea and then you think about how to make it happen and if you can :-)

@Meck yes it is possible to adapt a elo system to team games though for that to work we need to make sure that all players are on the same page when you start the game and that team cannot be changed afterward. At the moment it is impossible to know if a game was played seriously or if there were trolls, watchers or else in the game. The idea to keep ranked games separated from the rest by say making hosts add a keyword like "ranked" in the title of the game for it to be ranked would help toward that goal.