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FINALLYY EVERY 1 NEEDS THIS 1906  83

Grunt Posts: 184 Karma: +12/-0 ***

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Re: FINALLYY EVERY 1 NEEDS THIS
« Reply #30 on: July 05, 2019, 01:17:21 PM »
Chop bars are pretty neat I think they benefit pros most since it allows for better optimisation of the wood flow when moving peons around, it is an info that was not available before if you were not constantly watching your wood line when peons get back to chop, there is no way to tell which peon is almost done chopping and which just started especially during late game.

Also if you notice someone is chopping in your base you can tell if the chop is almost done or if you still have the time to make an at or move a cat in position with absolute certainty (unless it does not show for other players/enemies).

life bars are also a great addition pros will mostly already be used to select during micro but that will clearly allow them not to.

Overall I think there is nothing wrong about making the game more modern and nicer/easier with these simple changes I think people wont be complaining if they can tell quickly in game or in lobby if players are using the mod or not :P


The only thing that may trigger some hate is if it is shady. But if it is clearly visible then they can choose wether they want it or not being used in their games/'tourneys

I suggest a command like
/mods *playername*
that would display all the mods being used that that player that are "official" like:
*playername* uses: observe, lifebars, teamcolors, chop bars, whatever mod name
Server Admin Grunt Posts: 216 Karma: +10/-0 *****

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Re: FINALLYY EVERY 1 NEEDS THIS
« Reply #31 on: July 05, 2019, 03:35:16 PM »
Chop bars are pretty neat I think they benefit pros most since it allows for better optimisation of the wood flow when moving peons around, it is an info that was not available before if you were not constantly watching your wood line when peons get back to chop, there is no way to tell which peon is almost done chopping and which just started especially during late game.

Also if you notice someone is chopping in your base you can tell if the chop is almost done or if you still have the time to make an at or move a cat in position with absolute certainty (unless it does not show for other players/enemies).

life bars are also a great addition pros will mostly already be used to select during micro but that will clearly allow them not to.

Overall I think there is nothing wrong about making the game more modern and nicer/easier with these simple changes I think people wont be complaining if they can tell quickly in game or in lobby if players are using the mod or not :P


The only thing that may trigger some hate is if it is shady. But if it is clearly visible then they can choose wether they want it or not being used in their games/'tourneys

I suggest a command like
/mods *playername*
that would display all the mods being used that that player that are "official" like:
*playername* uses: observe, lifebars, teamcolors, chop bars, whatever mod name


i think the chop only works on ur peons not the enemies
Administrator Ogre Posts: 1394 Karma: +135/-9 *****

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Re: FINALLYY EVERY 1 NEEDS THIS
« Reply #32 on: July 05, 2019, 07:55:41 PM »
Quote
Since these additions may really help the game-play substantially it would be nice to be able to see when players use them for tourneys and ladder.
There's no way to see when players use that, as nothing being sent to network here.
The only way is to use something like antihack here...
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Re: FINALLYY EVERY 1 NEEDS THIS
« Reply #33 on: July 05, 2019, 08:58:32 PM »
Quote
Since these additions may really help the game-play substantially it would be nice to be able to see when players use them for tourneys and ladder.
There's no way to see when players use that, as nothing being sent to network here.
The only way is to use something like antihack here...

or if its added to the update fair game for every 1 .. i think people are a bit confused of what it actually is when they see it theyll realize its nothing that serious an its only for YOUR personal peons that u highlight at the time .. not your enemies not your allies only yours.. an whats great about lambs new system  .. it can be updated an added on to in the DLL folder.. maybe we can add updates threw the patch loader that will update every one at once when something new comes out for it
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Re: FINALLYY EVERY 1 NEEDS THIS
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2019, 08:12:05 AM »
Quote
Since these additions may really help the game-play substantially it would be nice to be able to see when players use them for tourneys and ladder.
There's no way to see when players use that, as nothing being sent to network here.
The only way is to use something like antihack here...

Yeah, as I understand it the server only gets the client game (wc2, sc, diablo etc), and a version number. There isn't really a facility for it to receive any extra info.

Perhaps we could force a chat message at game start, like have each client auto send "Plugins: T C A L" or something so everyone can see it. Don't really know how to do that yet, although I suspect it wouldn't be too hard to track down. However that would be an update to the framework itself as against just adding a plugin so that is just an idea for a later date.

At the moment there is only the chop bars that people seem worried about. If you try it out you will find that although it is interesting and occasionally mildly useful, it really doesn't give anyone a huge advantage. I would be very surprised if it actually altered the outcome of even one game a year. The main thing I notice is peons seem to chop faster lol. When you don't know how long they have to go they always seem to take forever....

i think the chop only works on ur peons not the enemies

Yes. Only your own, and only when they are selected.

Actually I think it would be cool to be able to see enemies also... like when they are chopping into your base, I think this stuff just adds interest and fun to the game, but don't worry I have no intention of doing that unless a clear majority of players wants it (which seems unlikely).

     --------------------

The next plugin I am thinking about doing is a game/chat log.
Should also be able to incorporate a squelch list at the same time.

Just something that logs the time, date, map and players etc. when you start a game then logs the in-game chat in a text file. Not for any real reason except it would be amusing. Imagine if we had chat logs from all the epic games over the years .... so much gold wasted.

Does anybody have any problems with that? Copyright? Invasion of privacy? Religious concerns? General grumpiness? Having a bad day issues? Just don't like Lamb doing stuff? ;) Speak up!


Also at a later date I would also like to add life/magic bars for selected units. Just the info that is already supplied on the panel on the left, except as an on-screen display.... please start bitching about that now, then we can have another bitch session when I get around to thinking about starting work on it..... by that time hopefully people will have become more comfortable with the whole plugin thing and think of it as a positive as against something to be feared.


I love these additions to the game they look legit and they are a great step forward to upgrade the game! :thumbsup:

Thanks mate. That's nice to hear. :) I just wish I had more time to spend working on it. At the moment I'm really only putting in a few hours a week (if that).
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Re: FINALLYY EVERY 1 NEEDS THIS
« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2019, 08:21:57 AM »
this game is the easiest startegy that i played online and you want make it more easy?

wtf?

Personally I think giving the player more information makes the game richer, not easier.
Grunt Posts: 184 Karma: +12/-0 ***

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Re: FINALLYY EVERY 1 NEEDS THIS
« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2019, 09:57:44 AM »
ALthough I like the idea of having a bunch of mods improving the gameplay available to everyone like that.
I do also believe it would not be advisable to enforce it on everyone.
We should let players choose for themselves.
We have to respect other players even if you think this is minor or it makes things better some people will want to keep it the old way.
I also think the mods will make the game richer and better.

To make everyone happy we really have to find a way for players to know at anytime what modes players are running.
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Re: FINALLYY EVERY 1 NEEDS THIS
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2019, 11:35:33 AM »
Other games like sc2 dont ask you if you want an update (which usually ends up screwing over 1 race or 2) with every new patch. You must have it, and thats that. I think same should be applied here.
Grunt Posts: 184 Karma: +12/-0 ***

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Re: FINALLYY EVERY 1 NEEDS THIS
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2019, 12:43:18 PM »
other games loose players everytime they do something like that we cant really afford it.
Other games like starcraft 2 are entirely based on a different kind of playerbase you can't just ignore nostalgia is the main factor for war2 we all know that.

We do not have to force players to adopt our updates...
If they are really good players will end up all updating anyways, but in the mean time if you let people choose and make it fair and visible you wont alienate anyone, that is just more respectful...

You and me may think the updates are a straight good thing it is still very bold and not ok to impose our point of view on others or make it shady.

Cheating is not cheating if you agree at the beginning on the advantage it gives you with the other players it is cheating because you do it in their back... That is what makes it a cheat.
Allow players to see who is using what and to choose wether to use it or not and no one will have no issues about it everyone will be happy.

^
That is the only thing we need to find a way to do if we want players to be ok with our nice upgrades that awesome lambchop spent so much time and effort to do and that I would love players to slowly adopt  too btw :-)

Just needs to be done in a way that everyone's perspective/opinion/point of view is respected and accounted for :P
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Re: FINALLYY EVERY 1 NEEDS THIS
« Reply #39 on: July 06, 2019, 01:18:52 PM »
As with anything though, there will never be 100% agreement on any issue or question. Majority has to rule in favor and that is good with me weather i agree or not.

I love this game as is and im sure every everyone else does too, however we cant try to continue to grow the game without making subtle changes and updates/upgrades every now and then. Otherwise the same 60~ players will just continue to play that have been playing for 15-20 years.

You are right about nostalgia, but like i mentioned. You might get an old player back to check it out who hasnt played in 15 years but he wont be around long. This game doesnt generally appeal to new generation gamers because its so old, graphics outdated etc. But if we continue to make upgrades it might/might not be appealing because it is always evolving. I may be in the minority in this, but thats my opinion.
Administrator Ogre Posts: 1394 Karma: +135/-9 *****

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Re: FINALLYY EVERY 1 NEEDS THIS
« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2019, 06:00:32 PM »
The next plugin I am thinking about doing is a game/chat log.
You mean ingame chat when people press enter, write something and press enter again?
I think that idea would be great!
No any reasons against that: anyway you can see everything appears on your screen, so why not to save it to file? You could always do that manually by rewriting from the screen. Just a technical improvement. I think would be great!

Also ngk~laalaa planned to add that feature into his war2insight, but haven't been implemented yet.
I think would be a good feature.

I would also like to add life/magic bars for selected units. Just the info that is already supplied on the panel on the left, except as an on-screen display.... please start bitching about that now, then we can have another bitch session when I get around to thinking about starting work on it..... by that time hopefully people will have become more comfortable with the whole plugin thing and think of it as a positive as against something to be feared.
I know several russians who would protest that as something that should change the gameplay.
At the same time i'd accept that improvements. The game is old and it requires some fresh elements i think. And i think that is more important than some kind of old and well-known gameplay.
Grunt Posts: 184 Karma: +12/-0 ***

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Re: FINALLYY EVERY 1 NEEDS THIS
« Reply #41 on: July 07, 2019, 01:37:50 AM »
Cheating is not cheating if you agree at the beginning on the advantage it gives you with the other players it is cheating because you do it in their back... That is what makes it a cheat.
Allow players to see who is using what and to choose wether to use it or not and no one will have no issues about it everyone will be happy.

To me it does not really matter if it "changes" the gameplay... I don't think anyone would care if it is not done in a shady way.

These plugins are cheats only if they are not detectable easily by other players when they are used, in game and/or on the status page.

As long as it is not done behind people's back and people can still choose not to use the said plugin or not, I see no reason why people would be mad about it...

Thus my recommendation for any mod that touches gameplay:

Make it easy to see when players use the mod and give them the choice to use it or not and everyone will welcome it with open arms there is nothing to loose there everyone wins no one has a reason to be mad.

The way I see it there is only so many ways to go about it:
- If you enforce it on everyone from the get go there will be people mad about it.
- If you don't enforce it but people cannot tell easily if players are using it there will be people mad about it.
- if you don't release it well me and many others will be sad about it because we miss a great opportunity to make the game better.

^
Only scenario where I don't see people having a reason to be mad/sad about it is if it is not enforced on players and they can easily see if and when people are using it...

If every single player ends up using the mod from there we can ship it with the game and make it a default thing since at that time we would be able to tell no one has any problem with that. :P
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Re: FINALLYY EVERY 1 NEEDS THIS
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2019, 07:15:54 AM »
... stuff ...

Thanks very much for your interest/input/feedback people :)

So I'll assume that nobody has an issue with a game/chat log for now.

We can revisit life bars etc. and have a healthy debate on them (and other issues) at a later stage if I ever get serious about producing them.

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Re: FINALLYY EVERY 1 NEEDS THIS
« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2019, 02:58:40 PM »
this game is the easiest startegy that i played online and you want make it more easy?

wtf?

Personally I think giving the player more information makes the game richer, not easier.

richer? cause you need click on enemy unit to check HP?
for example there are TWO lvl 5 grunts in your base and you got 10 peons mining in gold mine, one grunt got 10 hp, second grunt got 60hp, if you dont check hp for check his hp and u start focus random you got 50% to loss all peons, but if you attack grunt with hp, few peons can survive

Now player will see it
With that you will change game play to ignore more rush, just more focus to lust than now
Grunt Posts: 184 Karma: +12/-0 ***

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Re: FINALLYY EVERY 1 NEEDS THIS
« Reply #44 on: July 11, 2019, 02:07:10 PM »
Make it an option people can get just like war2observe is.

I really recommend we implement a command for players to be able to tell what known mods people are running with the game. something like the anti-hack but for mods that we know.
@iL would that be doable?
like a "/mods" command that can be followed with a player name and that would list all mods used by a player.

That way it is transparent and I am sure there will be absolutely no problems no matter how different the mods change the game.

Because it is like playing a custom game kind of, sure it is different from the main game but who cares if it is an option that players can choose/control no one is forced to play free castle all day but some players enjoy it we do not have to choose for everyone.

Think about it as if it was a custom map, forcing every player to adopt it as the one and only map would be a terribly bad idea, allowing it to exist along side what we already have however is a 100% win win and it makes the game rich.

So yeah I would say lambchop is right to say it makes the game richer to have these mods but it makes it richer especially because they are optional and controllable the question is what can we do about it :P