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24 hour ban to workwork 3692  110

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Re: 24 hour ban to workwork
« Reply #75 on: August 15, 2019, 09:38:01 AM »
Like I have said, when I first came back I got banned repeatedly for having AUS on /finger because people thought I was dellam. If I was actually a new player I would have given up and played something else.

If the admins at the time had taken it seriously and jumped on him the first time he did it there might be more people playing now.... but no that was "genius" trolling, because he wasn't doing it in gow games.
That wasn't a lack of will, it was a lack of ability.  We banned dellam many times, but he would reboot and his IPs would change around.  Without a hardware-targeted ban, we'd have to have banned the entire IP range of a major Australian ISP to get rid of him.  I can't recall who exactly the players were but there were Australian people that came forward saying "wtf, am I banned"
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Re: 24 hour ban to workwork
« Reply #76 on: August 15, 2019, 09:55:50 AM »
That wasn't a lack of will, it was a lack of ability.  We banned dellam many times, but he would reboot and his IPs would change around.  Without a hardware-targeted ban, we'd have to have banned the entire IP range of a major Australian ISP to get rid of him.  I can't recall who exactly the players were but there were Australian people that came forward saying "wtf, am I banned"

OK I get that, but I was thinking more that things might have been better if someone jumped on him straight away the very first time he started pulling his dodgey trolling stuff and enjoying the attention, and before he styled himself as the multi-proxy trolling hacker that he thought was clever.

As we discovered recently there are still a couple of people here (including admin) who think it was some sort of clever joke. That attitude doesn't suggest that people were initially taking the situation very seriously. Certianly I remember being very surprised when I signed up for the new (this) forum that he was allowed to feed his ego here also and that people were happily interacting with him.


I mostly just support the active admins and give my opinions/advice to them when something comes up

Couple of serious questions for you...


In your opinion:

1) If an admin sees a player doing destructive things and messing up games, should they tell the player to stop it?

2) If the answer is YES then what should the admin do if the player just tells them to fuck off and keeps doing it anyway?

3) If the answer is NO then what's the point of having admins?

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Re: 24 hour ban to workwork
« Reply #77 on: August 15, 2019, 10:03:57 AM »
Admins are in place to do serious things like catch hackers with proof and ban hackers. Not watchers building in games.
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Re: 24 hour ban to workwork
« Reply #78 on: August 15, 2019, 12:40:39 PM »
i actually did something very similar to this the other day -- someone said in the channel that wf2ogre was joining games & ruining them by not building which i've seen someone do before (they built halls/farms/peons and nothing else many games in a row), so i kicked him with /kill and gave a tempban. i didn't think much of doing this because  -- 1) if someone is actively complaining about getting their games ruined repeatedly then i think it's reasonable to try to do something to improve the quality of their gaming experience in that moment, and have done so before with dellam/martin, and 2) i view not building repeatedly as blatant trolling & it's overwhelmingly likely that a troll will know how to change their IP & reconnect almost immediately, so this is like a simple way to inconvenience them & make it slightly less easy/enjoyable to continue doing what they're doing.

maybe this is a little different than workwork if he is someone who plays normally in most games & will occasionally fuck around, rather than someone who joins purely to go on intentional sprees of game ruining (i.e. an obvious troll who has no other purpose than trolling).

it's arguable that policing such behavior can be left up to the game hosts to ban people they know will mess up games, but in that case it gives a troll many opportunities to ruin games hosted by different people which seems avoidable

I'm just going to throw this out there.. but there was a certain Smurf about 2 weeks ago who went around killing watchers during a game. Should that person have been banned as well?

My opinion: Yes. Someone doing that sort of stuff repeatedly should be warned to stop it and if they continue some official action should be taken against them.

Basically if you're doing something antisocial and a server admin tells you to stop it, then you should stop it. What is so hard about that?

If an admin can't adjudicte about things as they arise then what's the point of having admins?.... what, just to police the SS rule? You can get a badly trained monkey to do that.
imo this is reasonable, and is essentially what happened when leeroy was harassing babyshark -- leeroy wasn't getting punished for breaking rules (since flaming/trolling isn't against any rule), it was for ignoring admins when they stepped in & told him to stop. so from that perspective Warbux's actions aren't all that extreme. the potential for harm from such a policy also seems very low if all we're talking about is people getting a /kill & 1 hour tempban or a nick locked for 24 hours or w/e, then it's not anywhere near the territory of "omg you're killing the server by banning all these people"

listen i dont like banning people an i been 1 to say no 1 should be banend but ... a 24 hour ban is a slap on a wrist an i didnt ban him for building in my game i banned him for  doing it repeatively ... i like work work an get along with him fine an he understands why i did it ... im not gonna sit here an be an admin for nothing .. im for enforcing rules an i dont like shit gettin by for nothing .. if u guys made rules againts talking shit ida banned van to i dont care whos in my clan makes no difference u break rules u get a warning u do it again then u should be put in time out simple as that .. an ima push for that til were all on the same page
@Warbux this makes sense but i think you should also be willing to hear what other people say about your decisions & be willing to agree to whatever is the consensus. for instance, like you say there's no rule against talking shit but if you started banning people for that at your own discretion & people started complaining that would be similar to what's happening here.

clearly the consensus here is that building in games should be dealt with by game hosts, but i think it's worth talking about whether continuing that practice is causing more harm than good overall & considering alternatives. if we have active admins who are readily available to deal with things then it does seem reasonable to let them and so improve the overall quality of the gaming environment. this should include considering things like 1) do we have the time/manpower to realistically enforce such a policy consistently, 2) do people want to be deprived of their right to fuck around in games, 3) will it do more harm than good by causing retaliatory trolling, 4) do admins ban people for this any time they see it, or only when someone asks for help, etc.


i also don't think Warbux should be demoted from admin or have any of his existing powers removed for one single controversial decision, he's brand new & should be given a reasonable chance to figure out the role. if it becomes a recurring problem or there is a demonstrable unwillingness to cooperate as part of the "admin team" then it will be time to talk about it
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Re: 24 hour ban to workwork
« Reply #79 on: August 15, 2019, 01:40:11 PM »
If he did it repeatedly you should have banned him from your game!!! Why would you let him watch again when he keeps building?!!? You should ban yourself for being so retarded

Xurnt hosted the second game. You should learn to read.

Like I have said, when I first came back I got banned repeatedly for having AUS on /finger because people thought I was dellam. If I was actually a new player I would have given up and played something else.

If the admins at the time had taken it seriously and jumped on him the first time he did it there might be more people playing now.... but no that was "genius" trolling, because he wasn't doing it in gow games.



Yeah, no one would care.
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Re: 24 hour ban to workwork
« Reply #80 on: August 15, 2019, 01:42:36 PM »
i actually did something very similar to this the other day -- someone said in the channel that wf2ogre was joining games & ruining them by not building which i've seen someone do before (they built halls/farms/peons and nothing else many games in a row), so i kicked him with /kill and gave a tempban. i didn't think much of doing this because  -- 1) if someone is actively complaining about getting their games ruined repeatedly then i think it's reasonable to try to do something to improve the quality of their gaming experience in that moment, and have done so before with dellam/martin, and 2) i view not building repeatedly as blatant trolling & it's overwhelmingly likely that a troll will know how to change their IP & reconnect almost immediately, so this is like a simple way to inconvenience them & make it slightly less easy/enjoyable to continue doing what they're doing.

maybe this is a little different than workwork if he is someone who plays normally in most games & will occasionally fuck around, rather than someone who joins purely to go on intentional sprees of game ruining (i.e. an obvious troll who has no other purpose than trolling).

it's arguable that policing such behavior can be left up to the game hosts to ban people they know will mess up games, but in that case it gives a troll many opportunities to ruin games hosted by different people which seems avoidable

I'm just going to throw this out there.. but there was a certain Smurf about 2 weeks ago who went around killing watchers during a game. Should that person have been banned as well?

My opinion: Yes. Someone doing that sort of stuff repeatedly should be warned to stop it and if they continue some official action should be taken against them.

Basically if you're doing something antisocial and a server admin tells you to stop it, then you should stop it. What is so hard about that?

If an admin can't adjudicte about things as they arise then what's the point of having admins?.... what, just to police the SS rule? You can get a badly trained monkey to do that.
imo this is reasonable, and is essentially what happened when leeroy was harassing babyshark -- leeroy wasn't getting punished for breaking rules (since flaming/trolling isn't against any rule), it was for ignoring admins when they stepped in & told him to stop. so from that perspective Warbux's actions aren't all that extreme. the potential for harm from such a policy also seems very low if all we're talking about is people getting a /kill & 1 hour tempban or a nick locked for 24 hours or w/e, then it's not anywhere near the territory of "omg you're killing the server by banning all these people"

listen i dont like banning people an i been 1 to say no 1 should be banend but ... a 24 hour ban is a slap on a wrist an i didnt ban him for building in my game i banned him for  doing it repeatively ... i like work work an get along with him fine an he understands why i did it ... im not gonna sit here an be an admin for nothing .. im for enforcing rules an i dont like shit gettin by for nothing .. if u guys made rules againts talking shit ida banned van to i dont care whos in my clan makes no difference u break rules u get a warning u do it again then u should be put in time out simple as that .. an ima push for that til were all on the same page
@Warbux this makes sense but i think you should also be willing to hear what other people say about your decisions & be willing to agree to whatever is the consensus. for instance, like you say there's no rule against talking shit but if you started banning people for that at your own discretion & people started complaining that would be similar to what's happening here.

clearly the consensus here is that building in games should be dealt with by game hosts, but i think it's worth talking about whether continuing that practice is causing more harm than good overall & considering alternatives. if we have active admins who are readily available to deal with things then it does seem reasonable to let them and so improve the overall quality of the gaming environment. this should include considering things like 1) do we have the time/manpower to realistically enforce such a policy consistently, 2) do people want to be deprived of their right to fuck around in games, 3) will it do more harm than good by causing retaliatory trolling, 4) do admins ban people for this any time they see it, or only when someone asks for help, etc.


i also don't think Warbux should be demoted from admin or have any of his existing powers removed for one single controversial decision, he's brand new & should be given a reasonable chance to figure out the role. if it becomes a recurring problem or there is a demonstrable unwillingness to cooperate as part of the "admin team" then it will be time to talk about it


Lol so we have two shit house admins banning people for ruining games? I don't like newbies who ruin my gaming experience, time to ban everyone except about 5 players.
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Re: 24 hour ban to workwork
« Reply #81 on: August 15, 2019, 01:50:55 PM »
anywyas i dont care for none of the past... we moving on to a better future (AKA I'm now da boss and I'll do whatever I want)... an 1 thing we need to do is enforce rules (meaning the rules I just make up as I go along such as this building in game thing == server bans)an number 2 make AH mandatory (even though it doesnt work properly and it's not even the default DL anymore) ... g et rid of this hackin bs once an for all... (I am pro so anyone who beats me clearly hax == server ban!) there is no point of having admins if we cant enforce the rules simple as that (AKA anyone with common sense shouldnt be an admin thats why I should be admin, I have no common sense!) ... i dont need admin to host tournies or make maps or anything of the sort .. im admin for 1 reason to make this place a better place... (By banning people for stupid reasons that I just make up on the fly!) and im a fair person im not bias i dont care if were friends or not im for the rules an so long as every 1 follows them i got no issues  (I lie to myself a lot,  so I am therefore always fair and right no matter what!  What could possibly go wrong!)

Fixed.  BTW,  you also said and I quote "24 hrs ban on WorkWork and Lance for building in a game!".  I believe u did that as a server announcement or something,  idk.  But you backed off once I started pushing back on it in PM's and then telling you exactly what I was doing (mailing TK,  etc).  Thats the ONLY reason you didnt actually execute the threat against me.  If I hadnt said anything and just rolled over like a good little servant,  you would have done exactly that,  banned me.  You did however ban that other guy which is STILL out of bounds and COMPLETELY inexcusable.  Actions and behavior (aka threats) have consequences,  and you should lose admin for it even if it's only for a period of time (a few months would be good,  give u time to figure out you really dont even need it).  And from the sounds of things around here,  this isnt the only issue that people have been having with you.  I see others agreeing which means that this behavior isnt an anomaly but instead a pattern.

You should not be an admin.  Poll pls. 
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Re: 24 hour ban to workwork
« Reply #82 on: August 15, 2019, 02:15:13 PM »
While i(and many others) dont agree with banning people because they're ruining people's games/trolling.. I think we can agree that none of this would be an issue if people didnt do it.
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Re: 24 hour ban to workwork
« Reply #83 on: August 15, 2019, 02:25:15 PM »
While i(and many others) dont agree with banning people because they're ruining people's games/trolling.. I think we can agree that none of this would be an issue if people didnt do it.

And yet it will always be done.  Whether someone builds or not isnt the issue.  The issue is that it doesnt require admin actions.  BTW,  I didnt build to ruin his game (which he still doesnt get).  I built to kill the jackass who DID build and he was announcing the entire game that he was hunting for me,  so it should come as NO surprise that I'd eventually end up having to build something which is what happened (and I won,  I raped his sorry ass).  Yet he still threatened me like some common jackass that does it in every game.  So if he does these types of threats to people known to NOT build,  how can he be trusted with anything else.  Dude's behavior is the problem here,  not the act of building in a game (which I agree,  isnt cool, but i dont lose sleep over it either, it's just part of the game).
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Re: 24 hour ban to workwork
« Reply #84 on: August 15, 2019, 02:25:32 PM »
While you are right tk. That doesnt excuse the fact that a server ban wasn't necessary.

Watcher wars and such have been going on as long as i remember (at least 20 years) and i dont see an issue with it as long as they arent getting in the way of/touching players.

I do understand that it interferes with ladder rank apparently, but who gives a shit really? I get it if there was a prize or trophy on the line (tournament or bnet ladder seasons) but this is an inactive piece of crap ladder that no one cares about except for a couple people.

Just because warbux doesnt like smurfs and think they all hack doesnt mean smurfs need to have a server ban. If you dont like smurfs then ban from your own personal game. Ive been smurfing for 20 years (when active) and i dont plan to stop.
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Re: 24 hour ban to workwork
« Reply #85 on: August 15, 2019, 05:15:03 PM »
So whats the deal..

We let that kind of behavior between players hands and what?

We ban them over and over and over and over and over... And then what after?

Hes gonna do the same thing in other games with other peoples?

So actually the only thing we do his giving the probleme to another ones!?!? Right?

Because actually, this is exactly what happen here with workwork..

Anyone know i booted workwork for a damn week cuz he was building in our games.

And he finally start this shit on Banx games.

He dint came back to me saying, you know nox, im sorry, i understand im not good as you guys are and i should watch to learn and have fun later with all of you.

No he really dint do that, he stop join my games and he start doing the same fucking thing in other games.

It's not a question of build in our games it's a question of behavior.

So what is so hard to ban someone 24 hours or even maybe a week to show exemple and stop that damn behavior once for all.
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Re: 24 hour ban to workwork
« Reply #86 on: August 15, 2019, 05:29:50 PM »
This server have never blow up because admins and players are for the most just fucking dumb and lazy.

I always told it and it look like it's still the same after 5 years.

Because seriously you got someone who like this game and work hard for us, he try to make super nice plug-in for us, try to make super nice tourney for us, try to help other the much as he can, try to get rid of hacking, and because he did what you guys consider not right ( banning someone who ruins games repetitivly with a bad attitude ) Now you want to ban the good guys whos want to bring this server in a higher level to protect the one whos actually do the complete opposite and ruins the server. 

You guys really need to considere where you really are, because right now banx got my support and everyone in this thread who talkshit against him are -10 in my book.

Just like that.

fuck all of you  :thumbsup:
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Re: 24 hour ban to workwork
« Reply #87 on: August 15, 2019, 05:38:49 PM »
And if everyone in this server start to ban workwork, i mean everyone! What gonna happen after?

Oh let me think..... Hmmmm oh yeah right, hes gonna get tire of this game and will never com back at all.

So we just gonna lose another players while a 24 hours ban will probably have better result since he will think about it and fix his behavior.
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Re: 24 hour ban to workwork
« Reply #88 on: August 15, 2019, 05:42:17 PM »
listen i dont like banning people an i been 1 to say no 1 should be banend but ... a 24 hour ban is a slap on a wrist an i didnt ban him for building in my game i banned him for  doing it repeatively ... i like work work an get along with him fine an he understands why i did it ... im not gonna sit here an be an admin for nothing .. im for enforcing rules an i dont like shit gettin by for nothing .. if u guys made rules againts talking shit ida banned van to i dont care whos in my clan makes no difference u break rules u get a warning u do it again then u should be put in time out simple as that .. an ima push for that til were all on the same page

If he did it repeatedly you should have banned him from your game!!! Why would you let him watch again when he keeps building?!!? You should ban yourself for being so retarded

once again u dont read.. he didnt do it in my game a 2nd time cuz i owuld boot him he did it in other peoples games after i warned him which is when i banned him
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Re: 24 hour ban to workwork
« Reply #89 on: August 15, 2019, 05:48:42 PM »
That wasn't a lack of will, it was a lack of ability.  We banned dellam many times, but he would reboot and his IPs would change around.  Without a hardware-targeted ban, we'd have to have banned the entire IP range of a major Australian ISP to get rid of him.  I can't recall who exactly the players were but there were Australian people that came forward saying "wtf, am I banned"

OK I get that, but I was thinking more that things might have been better if someone jumped on him straight away the very first time he started pulling his dodgey trolling stuff and enjoying the attention, and before he styled himself as the multi-proxy trolling hacker that he thought was clever.

As we discovered recently there are still a couple of people here (including admin) who think it was some sort of clever joke. That attitude doesn't suggest that people were initially taking the situation very seriously. Certianly I remember being very surprised when I signed up for the new (this) forum that he was allowed to feed his ego here also and that people were happily interacting with him.


I mostly just support the active admins and give my opinions/advice to them when something comes up

Couple of serious questions for you...


In your opinion:

1) If an admin sees a player doing destructive things and messing up games, should they tell the player to stop it?

2) If the answer is YES then what should the admin do if the player just tells them to fuck off and keeps doing it anyway?

3) If the answer is NO then what's the point of having admins?



thats exactly what im saying.. we either do our jobs as admins or do away with admins and have no admins .. cant be inbetween .. its 1 or the other