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Topics - Erenussocrates

Pages: [1]
1) Cartography & Custom Maps / Carries and Supports
« on: August 05, 2018, 03:07:00 AM »
The concept for the map was originally coined by mousEtopher and I've decided to bring it to life.


8 Players, 128x128

The neighbours at 10, 1, 5 and 7 o'clock are supposed to be partners/allies. You can also play this on a 4v4 top vs bottom format too.

This is an MP map and also kind of a custom map at the same time. The thing is, there are map restrictions in place.
The partners in the corners who are hiding behind their allies' bases play the role of support, while the allies closer to the center play the role of carry.

Support players: The players in the corners (Players 1, 3, 5, 7) cannot train Footmen, Archers or Knights, and cannot do upgrades relevant to those units. Other than those, they can train or build anything else. While they cannot train any units to defend themselves with, they will be defended by their partner on the frontline, and they will supplement their allies in various ways.

Carry players: Players closer to the center (Players 2, 4, 6, 8 ) cannot train Ballistas, Sappers, Zeppelins, Mages or Dragons, and they cannot do upgrades relevant to those units. They also cannot build Towers, while support players can. Their initial starting base sits on a more compromising position while they cover up for their support allies. But even though they only have units to defend themselves with, support players can build towers to help on their base defenses.

The partners are supposed to be in a good communication, teamwork and synergy in order to get the most value out of their team. This also takes away a lot of the micromanagement pressure a player would normally have on a Vanilla multiplayer map, and distributes them amongst the roles. While a carry player might be busy chain casting bloodlust on their ogres, a support player would be busy with casting the D&D's, or positioning a sapper.

Metagame? : While carry players will probably be busy doing what they would always do (which is spamming Ogre magi) - if they aren't grunt rushing that is... There are quite a few options / duties a support can choose to go with, resulting in gameplay variance. For example, supports can choose to harrass enemies with sappers, or they can choose to just go DK's instead. Or they can save all the gold to build up a large Air fleet. They can also choose to go for offensive early game Tower harrassment. They also must build all those towers on allies' bases and expansions too. They can build catapults to aid the carries in both defensive and offensive ways.
Since carries cannot train zeppelins, supports will probably be responsible for most of the scouting done in a game.

Other than restriction properties, nothing else is changed about the game concerning unit stats or costs of units & upgrades.

About the map itself: While carries start with a Goldmine with 52500 Gold, supports start with a 37500 one, making 90k in total between two partners. There are 4 other easy to reach expansions closer to the center in 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clocks, and each of them have 45k in them. At all four edges of the map behind the mountains, there are also 4 more goldmines, and since they are harder to reach, they each hold 55k. It's supports' job to reach them. There is one super-mine right at the center of the map behind the trees and rocks, and it has infinite gold.

Each carries' main bases has two entrances, one of them 3 units wide, and one of them 4 units wide. The chokepoint widths are the same across all bases. I tried to make the map mostly symmetrical.

While hosting the game, make sure that you enable fixed start locations, and you can play in top vs. bottom mode. Other than that, you could also play as in diplomacy mode and do 2v2v2v2 as well.

That's about everything I can say about this map. I'm open to suggestions if there's anything that needs to be rebalanced. I also would like to see some players try it out if possible. Download is at this post's attachment.

2) Cartography & Custom Maps / RTS meets MOBA: Warcraft 2 edition
« on: August 04, 2018, 11:08:57 AM »
Pudpic images: (thanks to the courtesy of mousEtopher)


tl;dr : If you start with sappers, out of 6 heroes, choose two (or three in 2v2) heroes to save, blow up the rocks and get them.
If you start with a peon, just play normally. Except you cannot upgrade to Stronghold. You cannot train cats or build towers. Oil is crucial for upgrades.
Both maps are 6 player maps, 128x128.
When hosting, choose starting resources as "Map Default". Else the game experience might not feel balanced.
Also enable "fixed start locations" and play in Top vs. Bottom format.

I like MOBA. But I like RTS as well. The idea of combining the aspects of RTS and MOBA had been on my mind for quite a while, so I've finally decided to practice this on a custom .pub that I've recently made for Warcraft 2. Obviously, this is a top vs bottom custom game map (like that archer map).

It's a 128x128 map with northern and southern fronts. There are 6 players in total (and 2 rescue passive AI's).

Out of which, Player 1 (red) and player 4 (violet) are supposed to control the "bases" of each side,
and Player 2 (Blue) and Player 3 (Green) are supposed to control the Heroes that aid Player 1,
while Player 5 (Orange) and Player 6 (Black) control the heroes that aid Player 4.
So in total, 2 players control the bases and play the part of RTS, while 4 players control the heroes and play the part of MOBA.

I've also altered the map and made a slightly different version of it, where there are 4 players controlling the bases (2v2 top vs bottom), and 2 players controlling the heroes. (Players 1 and 2 control the bases at top, while player 3 controls the heroes that is allied with top, while players 4 and 5 control the bases at bottom and player 6 controls the heroes that is allied with bottom)

How this works:
Basically I've made 6 types of heroes/rescuable units trapped behind rocks to be saved by players, using sappers. In "2 bases/4 hero controller players" version, each hero controller player has 2 sappers, so each of them can control 2 heroes at the same time. In "4 bases/2 hero controller players" version, each controller has 3 sappers, so they can control 3 of them.

The heroes are basically the guys from Tides of Darkness and Beyond the Dark Portal missions, except I've edited each of them heavily to balance things out and to make them more suitable for their respective roles.

As far as roles go, there are:
Paladins (Turalyon / Uther) : Basically healers who can ride fast. You know the default paladin abilities; healing, holy vision, exorcism... I've nerfed their damage so that they suit their roles as healers, also decreased their HP and armor. Turalyon has slightly better damage, while Uther has slightly better HP and armor.

Ogres (Chogall / Dentarg) : Buffers. They have eye of killrogg, bloodlust and Runes, so just like with healers, I've nerfed their damage and HP heavily too, so their stats are around the same with Uther and Turalyon. Dentarg has slightly better damage, while Chogall has slightly better HP and armor.

Shooters (Alleria / Zuljin) : Single target damage dealers. Buffed Alleria's piercing damage quite a bit, making her into a tank killer. Her range stays the same, I think I have buffed her HP a little too. Zuljin has the same range as catapults, so he can harrass canon towers without getting hit, but he has considerably lower damage compared to Alleria, while having slightly higher HP, he has lower armor than Alleria. The idea is: he is less suitable to engage the enemy head on while being better at laying siege (?).

Tanks (Danath / Grom Hellscream) : These guys are the ones who went through the most change. First off, they have the most HP and armor amongst all heroes, so they are tanks. They also have 2 attack range, and have the same attacking projectile as dragons/gryphons, so they are efficient at clearing off RTS guys' armies. Be careful though, they can still hurt their allies too. I've also nerfed their damage so that they aren't OP. They have exactly the same stats as each other.

Mages (Khadgar / Mage) : Debuffer/support guys. I've removed Blizzard and Polymorph (one-hit killer spell LMAO) from them so that they won't be OP and should serve their roles better, since they still got Fireball, Slow, Flameshield and Invisibility. They have the same stats as healers, except they have lower armor points.

and finally...

Death Knights (Guldan / Teron Gorefiend) : I expect that these guys would be the carriers. They are the weakest both HP and basic attack-wise. But don't forget their spells. I've included an interesting little mechanic for players who would want to play as them. You gotta decide which spells you want to use and then buy them, but you will have to choose wisely, since you cannot afford all spells, and D&D and raise dead are also more expensive than other 3 spells (haste, unholy armor, whirlwind). This might bring more variety in each match, though admittedly we all know death and decay is the way to go, since it's broken lol. You can still think of having the considerably less expensive Whirlwind instead of D&D, and still have enough money to buy one more spell.

Metagame? : Well why not. As simplistic as this all is, I can still think of one or two combinations that could go well together.
Since tanks' basic attacks are dragonflames, I think pairing them with bloodlust would go very well, making them an even more formidable wave-clearers.
Don't forget that Death Knights are the weakest, so althought very situational, paladins' exorcism might come very handy. Ironically they can also heal allies who were cast unholy armor on, so they go well with death knights too.
Paladins and ogres each have a valuable scouting skill, so they would be helpful for their RTS allies.
If you want someone to help you catch and kill an enemy hero, mages are your best bet, since they have Slow (the only means of CC in warcraft 2). They can also use flameshield as both offensively or defensively, they can deliver good area damage with fireball, they can make their allies do sneaky things with invisibility (though very situational).
Death Knights can also cast haste or unholy armor on an allied hero to help them escape.

Hero controllers, don't forget that death is permanent.

Changes on the RTS side: All RTS players start with 2100 Gold, 1050 Wood, and 0 Oil. This makes you be able to build a farm and train 1 peasant after building the Town Hall. You will also desperately need the Oil. There are map restrictions in place thanks to the special map editors. The players who are controlling the bases are not able to upgrade to Stronghold / Keep, they also cannot train catapults nor build towers. They can only train footmen, archers, peasants and the naval tech. This keeps the importance of heroes relevant to the outcome of the game. I've increased the cost of barracks humongously, so you would have to have a good economy to mass footmen and archers, and in order to do that, you would have to have good map control, and in order to have good map control, you would have to have good teamwork with your heroes.

The cost of upgrades have been cruelly increased. Most of the upgrades cost Oil now, and lots of it, except for the few. So controlling the seas at the west and east side of the map is equally as important as controlling the gold mines. There are pre-built barracks and towers on each lane, belonging to each RTS players on map, and I've multiplied the towers' HP by 4 times, their armor by 2 times, and their damage by 3 times, so it's important to keep them repaired. Some towers are not upgraded, so it's up to the players to choose which tower they want.

What about the map itself?: There are 15 gold mines in total, 7 on northern half of the map, 7 on southern side, and one supermine with unlimited gold, right in the middle, although it's hard to reach so it's expected to be an endgame target.

There is also water on both western and eastern sides of the map, with 3 oil patches on each side, although each has very little oil. There are two lanes connecting north with south, with side roads leading to naturals. Controlling the gold mines, as well as oil patches, is crucial for victory. (keep in mind that RTS players can still train all of the naval tech) The shores are framed by mountains, but there are 4 spots on each side where it's possible to unload units using a Transport. So be careful about those sneaky drops as well.

I obviously do not advice opening these maps with the default map editor, as that would undo Danath/Hellscream's firebreath attacks when you did that.

The both versions of the map are attached at the end of this post. I'm kind of eager to hear the responses to this map of mine. I would consider rebalancing stuff if need be. I hope it can attract the attention of a few people since I know that some people like to play custom games over there.

3) Cartography & Custom Maps / Eastern Mediterranean
« on: October 31, 2017, 01:50:58 AM »
I've made this 4-player multiplayer map that spans eastern mediterranean.

Considering the relatively symmetrical layout of the geography, this is a much more balanced map compared to my europe map. And still has a few twists to make it interesting too.

Player start locations are on each corner of the map. Every player starts with a 60k gold mine, and has very easily expandable and easy to protect 2 other nearby mines, each 30k. The big island in the middle of the sea, Cyprus, has a single gold mine with 70k.

Chokepoints make all bases easily defendable.

There are 8 oil patches on the map, the four oil patches that are close to the mainland have 20k, the other four that are closer to the island have 40k.

Thin stone wall on the east side of the map separates the map into north and south. You have to either blow the wall up with sappers, or use transports to get to the other side.

Since the map is separated by the stone wall, in a 2v2 team game, this might bring out some interesting situations:
If both teams start the game on the same mainland, then it will turn into a north vs. south war on epic proportions.
But if the rival players start on the same mainland, then the game will turn into a set of simultenous 1v1 match. Meaning, you will have to finish the enemy off on the same land as you first, and then cross to the other side.

4) Cartography & Custom Maps / Europe Map
« on: October 31, 2017, 12:00:03 AM »
I've created a 5-player multiplayer map that spans most of Europe and northern africa, so that you can satisfy your world war fantasies in Warcraft 2.

Because of the obvious unsymmetrical geography of europe, this map might not be the most balanced multiplayer map you've played, but I've done my best to balance it out while trying to keep it interesting. Starting locations are in England, Germany, Spain, Northern Italy, and Poland.

Germany and Italy starts with 60k gold mine and they have a 30k easy expansion nearby
Spain and England starts with 65k gold mine because they are a bit harder to expand
Poland starts with 55k gold mine, because poland has 2 other nearby gold mines with less gold than usual.

Poland is separated from rest of the europe by a thin stone wall, which can be destroyed with sappers.

Northern africa is totally uninhabited, and has 3 gold mines, each having 50k inside. Securing that place before your enemy will without a doubt give you a huge advantage.

The oil is not easy to come by in this map, there are 3 oil patches in total, two of them have 25k inside, and they can be harrassed with catapults. England has one secure oil patch with 20k inside. But don't worry, you shouldn't have a problem expanding overseas if you are careful, as everyone starts with 5k oil anyways.

Be sure to try this out in a match and give feedbacks.

5) General Discussion / You have died and gone to heaven: these are your choices
« on: December 16, 2016, 08:34:40 AM »
Let's say the doomsday came and everyone you know and love died (you included) and you have been accepted into heaven, and you've been presented with 3 different types of heaven choices -or you can call them purgatory if you didn't like any of them- and you cannot change your decision after choosing one. So these are the ones, so choose wisely:

LAN Heaven

Imagine a LAN cafe that is 100 times bigger than the biggest LAN cafe on earth, and it's pitch black all the time, and the computer monitors are the only source of light, and it's playing techno/trance/house music (whatever electronic music you kids love these days) all the time. And all the computers have access to any and every imaginable esport game from the past, present and the future, and there are always empty seats. And you can find all of your multiplayer buddies that you've played in your past life in there, and you meet with them physically and you can play together any game you guys want at the same time and same place, and you will never fight amongst each other. You don't feel any hunger, thirst nor sleepiness, nor sickness, and you can play for all eternity.

Cons: It's always pitch black and the place can feel crowded/noisy since everyone kinda plays in the same big hub. The music genre never changes so if you don't like the music you are screwed. You cannot play anything other than a esport game/multiplayer game, and you will never enjoy the singleplayer experience ever again. You won't be able to experience a game with a good story. You don't have any earthly needs, but let's say you really wanted to eat a pizza because you've missed the taste - well you can't.

Singleplayer Heaven

Imagine a very large and luxurious lounge dedicated to you and you only, and there's no other person here other than the old cleaner lady that comes every few days and leaves immediately and never talks. You have access to a computer, a big television and a videogame console that can change it's shape and form into any of the videogame consoles that you've known in your previous life, at your whim. You can find and play any singleplayer videogame from the past, present and the future here. You also have a fridge in the lounge that holds anything you imagine, and a queen sized bed, and even a luxurious toilet. Note that you never feel hunger, thirst nor sleepiness, nor any of the earthly desires nor weaknesses but you can still do them if you ever feel like it. But no one else enters your room other than that cleaner lady who never talks. You cannot form physical connections with anyone you've known in your previous life, but you can still chat with all of your Steam friends on Steam, and Facebook friends on Facebook. (but no voice nor video chat. Text chat only) But you cannot play together, nor meet in your room nor someone else's room. And you cannot even leave your own room. But let's say you want something shipped from amazon, you can have it brought to your room in maximum 12 hours, and for free. (Anything that isn't a living and breathing multicellular being, not even a pet) Let's say you want a book, you can have it. You want a guitar, you can have it. You can even have sex doll. No questions asked.

Cons: You cannot have physical contact with anyone and it might get a little bit lonely there.

Non-Video Game entertainment Heaven

Imagine a big in-door pub, and it's full of people but somehow you can hear what your friends say, and there's no loud music playing. And there are all of the alcoholic and non-alcoholic drinks and brands of the world in there, even the ones that you don't know nor didn't hear about, even if you cannot see one particular thing that you are searching for on the shelves, the waiter/waitress somehow leans and takes the bottle you are looking for out from one of the cupboards. They can even serve you mythical things like the water from the fountain of life, or the same wine jesus drank and whatnot, if you are into that kind of stuff. And it's all free, and they don't ever run out of drinks. You don't feel any hunger nor any earthly needs here, but you can drink to your heart's content, you will feel drunk but you will never ever pass out. Nor will you feel sleepy. And you won't feel the need to pee - unless if you want it. And any friend that you imagine from your previous life pops out of nowhere and joins you, and there's always something to talk about.

Cons: You really can't do anything other than drinking and chatting with friends over a table. They don't service food there neither, and there's no wifi.


These are your choices, so which one would you choose?

I'm sorry I know that this is not the right place, but I couldn't find a contact email or something with the stratagus or wargus developers :( And also I had thought because this is the best place to ask anything related to warcraft 2, so.
I'll describe my problem if there would be anyone willing to help.

7) General Discussion / Question about AI retreat mechanics
« on: June 01, 2016, 01:18:28 PM »
If you take a look at this guy's gameplay of campaign and watch it for just 2 minutes, you can see that he utilizes this to a great degree.

! No longer available

But my question is, how does it work? When and under which circumstances do enemy AI's units give up charging and then just retreat? What are the factors that causes that? How do we know when AI would do that? I would definitely love a detailed guide about this doing extensive explanations.

PS: Warcraft 2 is a game older than 20 years, and at first glance it seems like a very simplistic game. But I believe there is still a heck load of things waiting to be discovered about it.

8) Cartography & Custom Maps / Map series: Campaign Hard Mode
« on: May 20, 2016, 04:26:39 AM »
Hello everyone, I've started a new project recently. I'm modifying the missions that I've extracted from war2dat.mpq (credit goes to tupac for telling me how to extract them some months ago). Since warcraft 2 didn't have a difficulty option, the idea is to modify the maps in a way that it certainly makes it more difficult to finish them compared to how they normally are. These modifications will include: adding more enemy factions and units in the maps, altering the terrain and resources, changing mission objectives. And it also includes ever so slightly changes to unit stats to make human vs. orc slightly more balanced. (if you do not like it, I can revert it back)
I've just recently started today and only modified the first 3 maps from Human Beyond The Dark Portal campaign. So the work is still beta. But I would like you to test and critisize the changes, and tell me how it is, so I'm putting these 3 maps here anyways.

Well since we don't have a trigger editor yet, we will have to obviously play them through custom game, and when I release the full version I will include a text file to mention mission objectives as well. But who knows maybe that could change sometime in the future *winks at tupac lol*

Unit changes (humans only): Added +10 base hp, +1 base armor, +1 base damage and +1 piercing damage to Paladins. (not applied to knights)
Added +1 base armor, +1 attack range, +1 base damage and +1 piercing damage to Rangers. (not applied to archers)

I will be including the beta as attachment to this post. Please try it out and tell me about what you think. Btw, sorry if a project like this had been posted in these forums before x'D

The objectives in all first 3 missions are the same with their original counterparts. (mission 1: all heroes survive and bring them to circle of power , mission 2: destroy all enemy forces and danath must survive , mission 3: destroy all strongholds and fortresses and bring turalyon to the circle of power)

Update: Added 3 more missions, and tweaked the previous 3. All of which retain the same mission objective as the originals did.
(Mission 4: erect a castle to protect the portal, destroy all enemy forces
Mission 5: Build three shipyards, destroy all orcish shipyards
Mission 6: Turalyon and Danath must return to the Circle of Power after destroying Bleeding Hollow (orange) )

Go, give them hell.

9) General Discussion / W!Zone?
« on: May 15, 2016, 08:04:51 PM »
While I was just doing a research through net, I've read on wikipedia that there used to be 4 more official expansions (which were authorized by Blizzard) for Warcraft 2. Namely, "W!Zone" , "W!Zone 2: Retribution" , "The Next 70 Levels" and "Next 350 Levels". Do anyone know anything about these ones? Did anyone play? Is it really worth to get or something? I really kinda wish that if only we could be able to download those expansions from war2.ru as well, since they were authorized by blizzard :(

That's what I'm asking. For campaign let's plays and such. Lately, I've downloaded that warvideo thingy, and tried it out. But it's output was a file type named ".dk2", which I have no idea about how to open. Plus it seems warvideo recordings doesn't include any audio from the game, that's what I've heard from a bit of searching around. So that's why I'm asking this. I tried open broadcaster software, but it just doesn't even detect old games like warcraft 2 or starcraft broodwar or ZDoom, neither in game capture or window capture. I tried monitor capturing warcraft 2, it seemed it works at the first glance, but when I finish recording, the outcoming video is very laggy even though it was not while I was playing on my screen.

11) Mods & Development / Want to change some units' stats
« on: May 20, 2015, 11:34:42 AM »
Hey guys, I've just recently registered here. I've always wanted to make some small modifications to my Battle.net Edition campaigns. That's what I wanted to do.
Namely 5 tides of darkness heroes, uther, lothar, zuljin, chogall and guldan, I want to make some changes in their stats in those campaign missions, and if possible, maybe even add some of them to the beyond the dark portal campaign maps as well.
I've thought that this kind of modification might be an easy task.

So, is there anyone who could show me the ropes and show me how I can learn to do it?

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