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Server.War2.ru / Re: LADDER ON - Beta season
« on: December 11, 2024, 01:23:25 AM »It's 2024. Competitive war2 ended decades ago around 2010. Kali was the peak between 1996 - 2006. War2's headstone should read "1996 - 2006". Kali was more populated than Bnet and competitive via cases ladder even after Bnet's release with its built in total trash glicko system. Kali lived on several years into bnet's existence with very solid populations but around 2006 it really dropped off heavily as people got use to bnet's new interface and realizing bnet would never fix it's crap ladder. I think Axolotl still has his season 1 (somethin like that, I forget which season it was) trophy photo up. The ladder on bnet lasted I think 3 or 4 seasons before people realized it was not ever going to be fixed and just stopped participating in it in any competitive way. There hasnt been a replacement ever since that brought back the urge to compete competitively. Even if one existed, I couldnt anyway. I play 1 handed in 2024+. Arthritis prevents me from using hotkeys. So if I show up in any ladder stats anywhere, know that it was not intentional.
I assume this is about the "mist" ladder btw, which uses the same exact FAILED system that Bnet used in 1999. Just take a look at u8's rating on the "mist" ladder currently and you'll quickly see why it was such a miserable utter and total failure. It's nothing but a grinding reward system. The person that grinds out the most wins against complete noobs wins the season. Simple. Of course, I explained all this before this "mist" ladder was even developed and was just a discussion somewhere here in the forums. I explained why it would never work and now you have a working example of just why it's such a bad example when viewing u8's game stats. Just take a look at how his glicko continued to rise even though he wasnt playing anyone any better, it was all vs a single player (which makes this system easy to game and it appears thats exactly what he did which isnt surprising in the least, it was warned before this ladder even existed that thats what would happen). The false assumption that just because Blizz uses it, that it must be a good system is COMPLETELY misguided. Blizzard doesnt care about competitiveness. It only cares about making people stay in their games as much as possible and grinding is how they do that across ALL their titles. Glicko's only use is a match making GUESS. And thats it. Thats all it is, a guess. Which is usually wrong in grindy environments. There are plenty of complaints about it in other title's forums. Just take a look at Hearthstone's forums and you'll quickly realize this. You're just not going to find a better system than rung based.
Elo is far older than blizzard (glicko is based on elo). It was designed for chess in the early 1900s which is an in person game where games could last HOURS or even DAYS at a time. Grinding out wins at chess against new players is not possible in a real in person officially sanctioned way which is why it works well for chess but not something like War2 or any online game for that matter. What you have developed isnt really elo. It's closer to glicko, if not an outright copy of it and simply not showing the RD value. However, it doesnt matter if you use elo or glicko. The end result is the same. You can game them both by grinding out wins vs lesser players (as you can see with u8's current ranking and was explained b4 this dumb idea was put into motion). Something you simply cannot do in a rung based system.
Thanks Lance.
Indeed I saw your concern on the first week and did my opinion over there.
What we can do is to create some mechanisms. I though in 2 scenarios.
1) Rank range.
We can limit for example in #10 ranks to have the ELO counted.
Equinox #1 beat (or lose) Shotgun #12 , both ELOs remains unchanged.
2) Elo range.
We can limit in 50 points.
Dudakurten ELO 1100 beat (or lose) Lance ELO 1025.
Both ELO remains unchanged.
What do your think?