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Messages - dannyldd

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136 / Re: War2 - Multiplayer campaign released
« on: December 28, 2020, 12:10:13 PM »
OK!!! looks great my friend, thanks for that info... Just one little additional thing:

I have just tested up XHuman3 (beyond the dark portal).And I saw that I got killed Turalyon in around 8 minutes but still didn't recieve any defeat window.

So from my experience trying alone the co-op. It seems like hero-death triggers may not work properly. Unless it's a problem from my side, can actually anybody take a look if hero-deaths are actually working  ? Thank you a lot.

137 / Re: War2 - Multiplayer campaign released
« on: December 28, 2020, 11:10:49 AM »
By the way, on the video doesn't show missions with active AIs so I'd like to know, which AI scripts are being used on these maps? Are the base game AI scripts being used for such ?  If so, there's some way to set specific scripts for the maps ?

Would appreciate the help. Thanks again

139 / Re: War2 - Multiplayer campaign released
« on: December 28, 2020, 09:36:02 AM »
Multiplayer campaign released!

Here are the same 28 missions (14 for both races) for TD and 24 BDP, but:
you should play together. 2 allies against computer.

It have been implemented to play as similar as possible to single player campaign, but you should join the server before. As it's multiplayer campaign.
So, step-by-step:

- both players should join backup server, Attention: it will work on backup server only, not on others.

- create game and select campaign maps as usual maps one-by-one. Important: till you win the first map, you won't be able to play second one! Same as on single campaign.
Every map should be possible to win by 1 player, but it should be x2 more difficult.

- Maps should be hosted as UMS. It's important, it will not work with different types.
But you can select any resources you want, it will select proper one itself.

Here's the link to maps:

Download, play and report about process and results!

Link doesn't work, can you please re-upload or fix it please ? Really good job to make this possible !

Fascinating extra tool for the game. Totally recommend it. This can be really useful. Thanks for your work on it buddy.

141 / Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing
« on: December 13, 2020, 06:40:34 PM »

last game hsc 2x2 me steve vs spb braviet

you can see how to play with humans

how work invis and another spell like slow or polymorph

This game just proved what I just said that invicibility makes no difference, even though you wait all long to get that spell... The game was defined by better economy way earlier like mass gryphon raiders or sneaky mage tower. I really encourage to not misinform people because this sort of rare case game is a good reason why some people already have said to me that invicibility make humans strong in sea... even though for sea maps is hard to even get any situation where invicibility would rarely make any difference.

Either way you had good mechanics to deal with the other people, I praise you without any problem for that.

142 / Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing
« on: December 13, 2020, 06:12:32 AM »
"perfect" ? It's the same sort of answer that people say here on war2. If you look it from outside with an objective perspective then you see what's the problem.

SC1 is 22 years old, I never ever saw scouts or ghosts or nuclear bombs usage. What's the last time you saw marine firebat medics being used professionally vs protoss ? vs terran ? I used to play against some amateur plus professionals and had several years of experience around this. What's the last time you saw massive ghosts usage vs protoss or terran ? Source ? It doesn't work for videos from 2001 or extremally picky situations just for show. I mean on regular daily gameplays...

By the way I hope you can give it a try to DAIFE or DIE, good luck & have fun !

Scouts are sometimes used in PvT to rush Terrans in "island" maps. Firebats sometimes in TvZ vs mass Zerglings. Nuclear Bombs I saw only once, that's true, but it was a good combo with EMP vs Protoss buildings. All of these are very rare cases, but still happens in pro gamers matches.

With all due respect, in lower skill level anything can be used from the game... People in war2 could say stuff like invicibility or raise of the dead spells work in war2 but probably we're are talking from very slow level speed people because when we're talking about slow macro mechanics then anything can be bring up to the table and work because reactions are slower even if the spells are not efficient for high level people.

With respect to SC1, Scout is a unit that I never ever saw in around 17 years being used against anything in high level games, not even amateur level. Those must be from very casual level people. Firebats is more likely a unit that could be seen in terran vs zerg but some specific situations by professionals to deal with dark swarm spell from defilers but that's the very only case along with some 10 marine + 2 medics timing where you can add up 2 firebats in case of massive zerglings, but again those are very specific situations and not in regular high level games.
This is like the thing this guy szwagier mentioned about from invisibility with sea units. You may have seen this thing happening once or a very few times in several years, that doesn't make it either useful for regular usage or even worse, for high level people. The same for sc1 units.

Just to add up, which was the last time you saw corsairs being used vs terran ? Or queens with ensnare against any race ? or broodlings ? Infested command center + infested marines ? Or Dark archons against any race ?
SC1  isn't remotely to ever be considered perfect at game balance from my opinion, but the people really like it because on how hard was to mechanically  play with the AI and units along with micro.  This could be addressed up as well on this game with troll or archers as well. As long as people want several changes to the units as well...

I really encourage again to just nerf bloodlust as soon as possible so then we could all see crazy strategies never ever could have been seen.

143 / Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing
« on: December 13, 2020, 05:19:48 AM »
Saying that humans is stronger than orcs is sort of delusional for me. Both races have the same sea units.

99% of the time I see war2 multiplayer is just ground vs ground only. I dont need to be for such a long time playing war2 to see how the meta just works. I have experience from the past playing against competitive amateur people in starcraft  1 and 2 so I kinda see how things work here.

Games end much faster than ever reaching invisibility for any ship in " sea vs sea " war2 games, even though this is something will never happen because like I said, i just see people playing 99.9% of games in ground vs ground. Also invisibility from mages is 200 mana, are you going to wait for setting 5 invisibilities in a time for doing " anything "  against your oponnent ? Games end much earlier than this.
Invisibility is casted and revealed once units attack their target or casting it on another mage in very sneaky situations. I doubt you cast invicibility from your base to let your unit walk the entire map for doing one-time blizzard. You can't cast this ability on demo-squads.

144 / Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing
« on: December 13, 2020, 05:14:41 AM »
(...) This is a problem that happened with starcraft 1 and 2 as well. People are way too conservative and stubborn for changes.

These insane campaign version from your Twitch looks great, I will try it someday  :slight_smile: Nice playthrough  :wc2:

I disagree with you about Starcraft 1. Races, units and abilities combinations are perfect in this game. I have watched many championships in my life in SC1 and there were so many different tactics, players with their favourite strategies and skills and what is the most impressive - every race is unique, every ability is useful, every unit is useful and all races have the same chance to win. I don't know how Blizzard did it, but imo it's best RTS I have ever played.

i disagree with you, human race is more powerfull race than orc in sea maps,

How Human race is more powerfull in sea maps?
Invis units are detected by Zeppelings if I remember correctly and Zeppelings/Flying Machines are neccesary to find Turtles/Submarines so with or without Invis Zappelings/Flying Machines will be used in the match already. If Invis is not detected by any unit then I think it should be also fixed, but that's only my opinion.
I cannot find any multiplayer gameplay on sea map  :(

"perfect" ? It's the same sort of answer that people say here on war2. If you look it from outside with an objective perspective then you see what's the problem.

SC1 is 22 years old, I never ever saw scouts or ghosts or nuclear bombs usage. What's the last time you saw marine firebat medics being used professionally vs protoss ? vs terran ? I used to play against some amateur plus professionals and had several years of experience around this. What's the last time you saw massive ghosts usage vs protoss or terran ? Source ? It doesn't work for videos from 2001 or extremally picky situations just for show. I mean on regular daily gameplays...

By the way I hope you can give it a try to DAIFE or DIE, good luck & have fun !

145 / Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing
« on: December 12, 2020, 06:12:12 PM »
Last two posts, by Oragorn and Dannyldd are what I can agree with 100%.

Human race should be improved, because for all these years game was terribly unbalanced. It's sad that Blizzard didn't care about War1 and War2. Just released, few bug fixing patches, and moved forward to next games. The first game they really cared about was Starcraft 1 and so many years after release of Starcraft 1 there are still championships in this game (for example: Bombastic StarLeague 9 from this year).

I won't throw any other ideas, but if you fix War2 I would love to play it  :slight_smile: Maybe even in multi if there will be anyone who wants to play with such slow fart like me :D

if you wants, take a look either on my insane edition for campaigns or the stream playing from time to time to look up on the real warcraft 2 units potential this game always have had:

This game has a ton of fun potential with all the units catalog but neither Blizzard Entertainment or community have had the will power to either modify the game or want game units balance re-design. There're so many skipped unit spell/compositions which were even skipped on the game campaigns that would totally be possible in the multiplayer if people would be willing to look up for usual unit redesigns. This is a problem that happened with starcraft 1 and 2 as well. People are way too conservative and stubborn for changes.

146 / Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing
« on: December 12, 2020, 05:43:02 PM »
my idea is just that random people shouldnt give tips for multiplayer, but your idea could be good in single/custom games
Random people? Take it as what?
Among us, by the way, there are also people who previously or now actively play.
Therefore, I ask without unfounded statements.

And now about the mod itself and why we decided to release it at all:
In fact, we can say that we are testing 2 projects:
1) war2mod
2) improvement of the original war2

The first project is supposed to be done as an additional game mode, where many of the most interesting features of the game will be implemented.
And the second - to strengthen the Alliance race, and only slightly, perhaps, to correct the orcs.

The fact is that everyone knows that there is no balance between races in Warcraft2.
Everyone is already too much used to it - you are right, of course.

Therefore, in improving Warcraft2, we especially do not want to change and somehow strongly expose the orcs to the balance.

Much more attention should be paid to the Alliance race.
They are played mainly to give an advantage to the opponent, or try to win quickly on small maps. Or just for fun.
We want to strengthen the Alliance race so that it can become proportionate in strength to the Horde race.
So that people choose not only orcs, but also people. Of course, like Starcraft, the mechanics of playing for both races should be somewhat different.

Therefore, before you blame war2mod for anything ... remember! That this is just a test of the game's capabilities.
If the community nevertheless comes to the conclusion that a rebalancing of races is necessary, then the relevance of the war2mod will become much lower.

If the community does not come to this, then war2mod will be some alternative to the original war2, and will live in the new mode, without annoying 99% of the players. In which all sorts of interesting things will be available like sheep or demons with heroes.

Anyway ... we are waiting for what people will say about all this. How much they are interested in it, and whether they are ready to support the initiative.

I have seen quite a ton of conservative people on the overall global warcraft 2 community about doing any "possible" balance changes to the races in game... Seems like they just want another 25 years of the same Orcraft 2 game balance... which is quite stupid in my honest opinion. I haven't ever ever seen Human faction ever being relevant  or remotely strong as orc is with the well known ogre mage spell: Bloodlust. Changes always are necessary to keep things fresh in many ways. I just suggest you pushing game races being balanced as much as you can because I highly doubt that Blizzard Entertainment will ever modify this game in a future nearby. Go ahead commander, you do great with such a motivational feeling to making the game actually balance for both factions. I have started watching warcraft 2 multiplayer for around 1 year and I just can imagine bloodlust have been the very only thing used since at least 20 years ago already in mid/late game. You can't be serious to keep that up for the eternity on the game that you like boy, come on.

I totally encourage you to either boost massively Human faction in so many ways:

Paladins healing from 6 mana per 1 hp to something like 3 mana per 1 hp.

Archers arrow level 2 switched from +1 to either +2 or +3

You could decrease sight range upgrade from +3 to +1 so in that way you can make flying machines way more usable overall games.
In the same spot, Trolls you could add up to the regeneration upgrade to also improve the AI those units have to wait less time looking to their target so they can retarget much faster... As far as I know both archer and trolls wait something like 1 or 1.2 seconds if they retarget, which makes them pretty hard to be useful if melee units approach to any of them. So if in addition to the regeneration upgrade then also improves retarget AI for trolls from 1.2 seconds to something like 0.6 or 0.5, you would make them available and more unique for Orcs to deal with melee units just as the Ogre mages.

Gryphon Raider and Dragons should decrease their cost dramatically from 2500 to 1500 for gryphon raider and 1800 for dragons just to consider the fact you can use unholy armor for dragons plus haste plus bloodlust and gryphon raiders have nothing to them for being boosted so in that way you could make them more different from each faction.

I'd suggest to increase attack speed for gnomish submarine and giant turtles and less attack damage so they would still be slow on sea but would be better to snipe key locations. Helpful for either campaigns and multiplayer. Also would be another reason to use flying machine / zeppelings more frequently.

I'd like to add one of the current mod changes from your war2mod to this idea of re-balancing warcraft 2 about allowing to "train sheeps" but instead of farms, I'd suggest from Stables for the Alliance and pig farms for the Horde, in that way you have both different states to use that ability.

Mage invicibility spell should be decrease from 200 to 100, that spell requires a ridiculous amount of time to be available and it doesn't just help the way polymorph would do against dragons, for example. So it would allow much better to do invicibility outplays and would require to have more flying machine/zeppelings to counter.
Fireshield/magic shield from mages should be changed with another usage to cancel bloodlust from some melee units with area of effect (just like paladins exorcism), so this way you can prevent some people playing only mass ogre mages and of course would make the orcish player to micro around instead of "1a". In case this is not something you want to code (if ever possible), this spell still could be useful if you decide to apply massive buffs to archer / trolls and people who decide to play this way. In my current campaigns Insane Edition which is already available to community, I have had to deal several times with magic shield and if can be launched a couple of those, they can turn a counter to this game style... Of course if trolls get buffed for multiplayer first.

Death knights/rise of the dead spell is a curious buggy spell... I have tried to use this spell specially on XOrc9 campaign mission from beyond the dark portal and this spell is rather buggy if you have some units in front of the death knight or some "rocks" between the death knight and corpses, also if there's some of your units standing above a corpse then its buggy still. In all of those cases, mana is wasted for free and still doesn't summon any skeletons at all.
In the same spot, I'd suggest increasing either attack speed from skeletons or more damage plus HP, I bet in that case you could increase the spell cost to something like 80. So that way you could use death knights to play death coil plus raise of the dead quite nicely.
For the same unit, Tornados should be decreased in mana cost from 100 something like 50 or 60. Death and decay it's such a massively cost efficient spell so in the same line, the later should cost 40 or 50 mana cost because it's not only useful for sieging up towers but they're way more efficient to land and do damage compared to mage blizzard (because of how the sprites work for blizzard spell).

And for the last point, I'd either suggest increasing bloodlust mana cost from 50 something like 100. Either that or decrease the damage increased (which Mistral managed to explain quite well) which is not so simple like x2 or x2.5 damage but increase its efficiency by like 40 or 50%. Either that or decrease like 50% the amount of time this spell is available so then you can actually micro around instead of having all war2 melee units catalog being useless against this unit plus spell.
The rune spell from ogre mages which never ever I have seen being used by any person in 25 years of warcraft 2, I'd suggest to decrease its cost from (200?) to something like 80 or 90, so then you can use this as a another static defense for your orcish base instead of the only classic towers. This way you could have something different and more diversity in contrast to the Alliance faction.

I hope you take any of this for your warcraft 2 game balance changes commander. I really appreciate you had the eggs to propose this because I simply do not understand how there're so many people so conservative who don't want to change things for being simply BETTER. I have had to see this same behavior in other games like starcraft 1 (game which wasn't game balanced almost for ever) or starcraft 2.

147 / Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing
« on: December 11, 2020, 06:55:02 PM »
Yes i sure abot what im saying.
This is not "roughly" calculated stuff. This is actual formulas from code of actual War2 BNE exe file. I saw all this code upside down.
If you dnt trust i can show you the pure code itself and you can see for yourself. (you need to understand at least some assembler though).
and not just dks/trolls mages/archers get full dmg.
all units receive dmg with the that exact same formula.
And this page
Maybe dnt see this? this occult page you shows to me is using the exact same formula. They just have using example of lvl5 ogre not just lvl1.
so lvl1 ogre vs lvl1 knight blood gives X2.5
lvl5 vs lvl5 gives X3 so upgrades important yes.
lvl5 ogre vs lvl1 !! knight this is will be already X3.5 (14-28 dmg) !! (actually just lvl 3 ogres will do as armor upgrades for them change nothing)

So about SC1 dmg. Do you know that there too not very so simply? Like there is units have "size". And some attacks types deal more dmg to "big" enemies some deal less to "small" and etc etc.
But as i see you what meant is that there is no random. Like 5 dmg always 5 - armor. Not like from 2 to 5 and etc. As i see yes maybe this is really good.

If does it work as suggestion, could it be possible to add some flag or trigger in AI scripts in order to force AI chopping wood each time you save and re-load a file ?

Not sure if people on community have noticed this but this bug exists since DOS version. Everytime you save a campaign mission (this can happen with AIs on multiplayer as well) and you reload then AI will not chop any wood if it's needed for either making more upgrade or more units which require wood or even repairing a damaged building on fire...

This issue can be noticed if you see AIs with peon/peasants standing next to a tower or farm on fire and not doing anything to repair it... Normally if you start a campaign mission or custom map and you play straight up without save/load for once, so you can notice that AIs will repair and if they need then will chop wood for repairing or building more units etc...

This is a very old bug that it's really frustrating to see because it ruins completely all AI script once you reload the same game at least once... The only way this tends to re-work (just to chop a little more wood) is when you go to main menu / quit the game and then rejoin the saved map, so then AIs will start chopping wood again (for some few minutes) and then will get into the same loop, so workers will stand next to a tower on fire and nothing more will be done for AI.

I'd really appreciate if you can bring up a solution for this because this bug can be really frustrating if you're experienced on the game.

For example, here you can see a person who acknowledges the same old BUG:

" I remember the AI breaking when saving and loading. This was back when I played a few years ago, so I'm not sure if it was addressed or not.
What would happen is after saving and loading a few times the AI would completely stop producing units. Took the fun out of the game. "

This is happening because AI stops gathering any wood after reloading as I just addressed.

If anybody have noticed this issue please let it know...

148 / Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing
« on: December 10, 2020, 05:39:54 PM »
Just thinking. If for any reason you could have access to game code in order re balance unit spells just like Bloodlust, then I may suggest immediatelly nerfing this ability in order to fix up finally the war2 multiplayer in order to allow a much wider, if not all orc (and human faction of course) units catalog because this specific ability from ogre mages have stucked war2 multiplayer since forever, and I haven't been around for such a long time but I can expect how many years have been the bloodlust spell the main ability for multiplayer.

Bloodlust (from my experience) seems to increase base damage (plus upgrades) for 2.5 times I think or it may be 2 times, but if you could reduce this to somethine like x1.5 nor less time to last then you could definetely bring up a chance for many other unit compositions. Also to buff the 3rd ogre mage spell called as "rune" or something that I have never ever seen to use but reducing its cost from 200 mana to something like 100 or 120.

I was talking to a guy from community and would be a cool idea that if you can switch some mage spell like the magic shield or invicibility in order to cancel bloodlust, in that way you could have more options to play against bloodlust. This spell would work like exorcism which has area of effect and can be casted from distance, so if mage set this spell on place then ogre/units with bloodlust would actually lose it.

Just little suggestions.

149 / Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing
« on: December 10, 2020, 10:09:56 AM »
if you want to Comps have unlim wood for campaign you dont need to make them "train sheep".
It is possible to just give them wood right away with "resource set" trigger in custom made map,
something like <set player BLUE resource WOOD to 10000>
and they always have 10000 wood every second.
Gold too. And gold can be even better. You can make unlimitied supply in golmine. You make mine with 2500 gold. When computer player peon is going inside mine will have 2400 and etc.
But you make trigger that every second sets its back to 2500. But when player peons mining that gold then gold dnt going back to 2500. So if player captured that comps base they dont receive many gold)) So this way comps will have unlimited gold, but if player gets thats base then he only have 2500.

This all can be made in custom map.
Tool for creating triggers for your maps will be released later so just wait a bit.

Thank you commander. You're a god from warcraft 2 for this situation being real :-)

150 / Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing
« on: December 10, 2020, 05:55:20 AM »

Well yes it is possible to add to entire game i think. But will not be doing this.
Because it will not be compatible with old versions of game obviously. iL says its a bad aproach so as we need maximum compatibility with all versions.
And because of that we put this on backup server. There will be no problems like some people download new version and some not and after that there is disconnects and drops.
Because all people who joins backup sever will get triggers automatically from server itself.
So if you want play with triggers you say your friends and then you all go in backup serv to play. If you dnt want anymore just go back to official serv and all functions will be disabled and this will be standart old war2.

Even though I can understand iL point of view about not being compatible with older versions, I would really appreciate as well as other map creators to at least allow setting up all of those features in one single war2 version so at least any of them can make for real their creations (in the short term) and so then, people interested at playing them.

If could be possible to set up "train sheep" into AI scripts so then you could allow AIs to have wood available in much longer mission sessions because you can set a ton of gold available but wood runs out much faster which of course is a problem for late game scenarios.

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