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Mods & Development / Re: Wall Balance mode (multiplayer)
« Last post by pianolarva on Today at 08:13:05 PM »
You are so knowledgeable about this game. AOE makes sense, less clicking, but maybe was troublesome to implement.
Yes, I meant BL lower than x2. I'm using it.
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Mods & Development / Re: Wall Balance mode (multiplayer)
« Last post by Mistral on Today at 07:09:15 PM »
autoheal cost is actually depends on greater heal spell cost, you can change it with triggers.
greater heal is default not finished spell by blizzard, autoheal actually works on its code.
and cost of 5 is also actually default set by blizzard.
in original it wasnt auto though, but it seems like it was AOE heal, but there is not orig code for that, they do not maked it to the end, dunno why.

there is also trigger that can fix blood onto honest x2 instead of x1.5-x3, its switch place of armor calculation
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Mods & Development / Re: Wall Balance mode (multiplayer)
« Last post by pianolarva on Today at 05:43:33 PM »
@Pandaprewmaster325 They are basically 120hp.

@Mistral My wishlist for the trig editor. I see it as a tool for balancing, not for creating new games.
- rework/improvements on berserker upgrades.
- can fire rate of units change?
- bloodlust fixed at lower values.
- autoheal is fixed at 5manaxhp. Lower?
- spell ranges
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did you saw triggers game mode?
there is also triggers editor prog
there is trigger that fix blood, makes exactly x2, just changes place of armor calc
you can set trigger in map and host in in triggers game mode

No sadly Im not playing on pc  these months using only my phone having installed a ps1 emulator and gone through couple ps1 games wc2 came to mind having never tried it before but played its various remakes in wc3 I was like hey this is my chance to try out OG wc2 so I got the dark saga port there is no way to edit the game data as its ps1 data  what I'm trying to say is there is no way for me to use map editor trigger editor whatever items the pc version has  which is why I again and again stated in the posts that there is no current version of the mod being made until then I can only speculate and theorize about what to change but  that's a glimmer of hope knowing BL against armor can be fixed.
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Strategy & Replays / Re: Rebalancing warcraft 2: human edition
« Last post by Mistral on Today at 08:46:01 AM »
did you saw triggers game mode?
there is also triggers editor prog
there is trigger that fix blood, makes exactly x2, just changes place of armor calc
you can set trigger in map and host in in triggers game mode
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lol wtf
no one will use blood on grunt
why, if you have ogres
if you must have to use grunt vs paladin then something is very fucked up going on in your game (like maybe no lumber for ogres ?)

so the main problem with blood is that blizzard fucked up calculation, it should have been making exactly x2 damage
but they remove armor after doubling, not before.
this makes the armor itself and armor upgrades is way more weakier agains blood.
because of that it can become from x1.5 to x3 damage.
only on units with 0 armor like peons it have normal honest x2 as intended

main power of blood is not actually because killing units, there is many other stuff that can kill enemy units.
but there is very very little things that can kill buildings.
i mean kill buildings FAST.
lvl 1 ogre have 8 str damage and 4 pierce
he deals from 6 to 12 dmg on 0 armor unit
and 12 - 24 with blood
but on building str damage is blocked
building have 20 armor
so no matter blood or not, 8 or 16 they blocked by 20
that means there is stay only 2-4 damage or 4-8 with blood
but lvl 3 ogre with 2 upgrades on damage
will have 12 str damage
and with blood it will be 24, that means it outdamage even buildings armor
20 - 24 = 4 more overdamage
means 6-12 damage on buildings with blood, instead of default 4-8 (which is basically x3 instead of x2)
difference prob seems not very big, but ogres attack speed is fast
with blood they need 7-8 less hits in average to kill guard tower for example
this is why its very VERY important to do 2 damage upgrades for ogres
they can crack open closed bases sometimes even before player can understand what happens and before peons can run here to even start repair
ogres and peons have same attack animation speed, that means you need 2 peons to outrepair blood ogres lvl 1 damages, but for lvl 3 ogres you need 3 peons per ogre, sometimes you simply not have enough space for peons to stand and repair, so ogres will crack open base no matter if you repair or not.

but ok this is buildings, if you remember units then lets check vs knight (or other ogre)
so they on lvl 1, have 4 armor, they block it from 8
8-4=4 + 4(pierce) =  4-8 damage
and witch blood
16-4=12 + 8 =  10-20 damage, so directly x2.5 already
now check lvl5 vs lvl5
12 dmg - 8 armor = 4 + 4 = 4-8 damage normal
but with blood
24 - 8 = 16 + 8 = 12 - 24 damage
which is x3, they will need 10 less hits in average to kill knight
this is why important to upgrade damage for ogres

remember knight still hits ogre for 4-8, he need 10 more attacks in average to kill
if you add heal here, you can add +1 attack because heal animation is just like attack animation.
so you can heal 40 hp from full mana (seems like 42 but blizzard set hardcoded limit of 40 per 1 heal cast)
so now what, if you lucky and ogre roll small damage, like 12 he still need only 4 hits, and if he roll high like 24, actually even 20 enough, it takes just 2
so what that means, ogre need 5 attack in average to kill knight, knight need like 16
knights spend +1 attack for heal, but its not +1 BUT +2 because while they heal ogres still hits them, and at this time they could have been spending time atacking ogre, so that means knight use +2 to add in average +3 for ogres
now knight have like 18, while ogre still have like 8
so, what if we have more knights, and they all heal
20-11, 22-14, 24-17, 26-20, 28-23, 30-26, 32-29, 34-31, 36-34, 38-37, 40-40, 42-43
so that shows that you need at least 14 (in average, really you need more) knights to outheal one ogre in fight vs same amount of ogres
also remember they all heal from full mana, while blood costs only 50
and on the duration of blood ogre can make 40 attacks.
oh yea you see how wonderful its number 40 again, in my previous calculation paladins was able outheal ogres exactly after 40 hits.
this is reason why blizzard maked heal exactly 6 mana, this is real balance you see.
the only thing is that its on average and in ideal fight and when all paladins heal perfectly on timings


I just happened to encounter bloodlust grunt so I sent a paladin to see if he can take him lol he didn't which was surprising and annoying at the same time.

Now since bloodlust messed up with armor calculation shouldn't there be a way to fix this? No not using map editor but from the data itself.

It was 3 am when I wrote the post above was kinda sleepy lol.

The thing with ogres attacking faster is somewhat silly as in warcraft 3 high tier melee units have longer attack delay compared to warcraft 2 BUT since wc2 favors melee units over ranged (opposite of wc3) perhaps its fine? I get that they made heal 6 mana for reasons but in an actual game I doubt you would have full mana paladin add on this the fast reaction it needs isn't as easy to pull off since you can heal enemy units with mis clicks but as I said before humans aren't adequately rewarded for micro compared to orcs who can simply bloodlust and call it a day.
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Strategy & Replays / Re: Rebalancing warcraft 2: human edition
« Last post by Mistral on Today at 12:35:55 AM »
lol wtf
no one will use blood on grunt
why, if you have ogres
if you must have to use grunt vs paladin then something is very fucked up going on in your game (like maybe no lumber for ogres ?)

so the main problem with blood is that blizzard fucked up calculation, it should have been making exactly x2 damage
but they remove armor after doubling, not before.
this makes the armor itself and armor upgrades is way more weakier agains blood.
because of that it can become from x1.5 to x3 damage.
only on units with 0 armor like peons it have normal honest x2 as intended

main power of blood is not actually because killing units, there is many other stuff that can kill enemy units.
but there is very very little things that can kill buildings.
i mean kill buildings FAST.
lvl 1 ogre have 8 str damage and 4 pierce
he deals from 6 to 12 dmg on 0 armor unit
and 12 - 24 with blood
but on building str damage is blocked
building have 20 armor
so no matter blood or not, 8 or 16 they blocked by 20
that means there is stay only 2-4 damage or 4-8 with blood
but lvl 3 ogre with 2 upgrades on damage
will have 12 str damage
and with blood it will be 24, that means it outdamage even buildings armor
20 - 24 = 4 more overdamage
means 6-12 damage on buildings with blood, instead of default 4-8 (which is basically x3 instead of x2)
difference prob seems not very big, but ogres attack speed is fast
with blood they need 7-8 less hits in average to kill guard tower for example
this is why its very VERY important to do 2 damage upgrades for ogres
they can crack open closed bases sometimes even before player can understand what happens and before peons can run here to even start repair
ogres and peons have same attack animation speed, that means you need 2 peons to outrepair blood ogres lvl 1 damages, but for lvl 3 ogres you need 3 peons per ogre, sometimes you simply not have enough space for peons to stand and repair, so ogres will crack open base no matter if you repair or not.

but ok this is buildings, if you remember units then lets check vs knight (or other ogre)
so they on lvl 1, have 4 armor, they block it from 8
8-4=4 + 4(pierce) =  4-8 damage
and witch blood
16-4=12 + 8 =  10-20 damage, so directly x2.5 already
now check lvl5 vs lvl5
12 dmg - 8 armor = 4 + 4 = 4-8 damage normal
but with blood
24 - 8 = 16 + 8 = 12 - 24 damage
which is x3, they will need 10 less hits in average to kill knight
this is why important to upgrade damage for ogres

remember knight still hits ogre for 4-8, he need 10 more attacks in average to kill
if you add heal here, you can add +1 attack because heal animation is just like attack animation.
so you can heal 40 hp from full mana (seems like 42 but blizzard set hardcoded limit of 40 per 1 heal cast)
so now what, if you lucky and ogre roll small damage, like 12 he still need only 4 hits, and if he roll high like 24, actually even 20 enough, it takes just 2
so what that means, ogre need 5 attack in average to kill knight, knight need like 16
knights spend +1 attack for heal, but its not +1 BUT +2 because while they heal ogres still hits them, and at this time they could have been spending time atacking ogre, so that means knight use +2 to add in average +3 for ogres
now knight have like 18, while ogre still have like 8
so, what if we have more knights, and they all heal
20-11, 22-14, 24-17, 26-20, 28-23, 30-26, 32-29, 34-31, 36-34, 38-37, 40-40, 42-43
so that shows that you need at least 14 (in average, really you need more) knights to outheal one ogre in fight vs same amount of ogres
also remember they all heal from full mana, while blood costs only 50
and on the duration of blood ogre can make 40 attacks.
oh yea you see how wonderful its number 40 again, in my previous calculation paladins was able outheal ogres exactly after 40 hits.
this is reason why blizzard maked heal exactly 6 mana, this is real balance you see.
the only thing is that its on average and in ideal fight and when all paladins heal perfectly on timings
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Strategy & Replays / Re: Rebalancing warcraft 2: human edition
« Last post by Pandaprewmaster325 on August 30, 2024, 08:31:08 PM »
Ok so after playing this game for a while I got to see a lvl3 grunt clapping a lvl7 paladin why? BLOODLUST , seriously BLIZZARD? HOW THE HECK DO YOU NOT NOTICE HOW BROKEN BLOODLUST IS? If a grunt a tier 1 unit with lvl3 can beat the crap out of a unit that needs a unique building then needs another unique building to unlock it then you pay 2000 gold for upgrading paladins and heal and your paladins still gets clapped pretty hard THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS MAN WHAT'S EVEN MORE FRUSTRATING IS BLIZZARD DIDN'T EVEN BOTHER TO PATCH THE GAME LIKE 10, ANNIVERSARY OR SOMETHING , you aren't getting rewarded adequately for playing humans while orcs with the least effort can still clap you , listen im an orc fanboy but this is beyond ridiculous I know people came by and said that and that about BLOODLUST but no effort was made to nerf this spell no matter what you do if you don't buff humans they will still suck its by design , "but demo teams-" shut up demo teams require accurate timing to kill the most out of ogre magi  u don't want to use them on the flanks of an ogre magi group where fewer magi go no the center is the right place but how possible that is? I can't wait to get my hands on a filthy pc copy of this game to fix the goddamn trash balance blizzard left but you know what im taking an RTS warcraft title over any RPG warcraft title anytime in the year damn blizzard get back to the roots of warcraft RTS games...
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Server.War2.ru / Re: How to record Warcraft 2 games?
« Last post by Buttercraft on August 30, 2024, 02:40:08 AM »


No
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Server.War2.ru / Re: How to record Warcraft 2 games?
« Last post by Muz on August 30, 2024, 01:10:11 AM »
It cannot record games with computer opponents?
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